Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Willthishelp?]

How do I put hoseclamps on this connection? No need right?

Yeah, not in US (I already have middle adapter). In Europe maybe you don't need middle adapter if you're using the regulator/flow-meter unit from the picture that shows how to connect plug/nipple to coupler to regulator/flow-meter (that's from a European site).


If you're going to modify hose yourself (I'm guessing some/many members bought hood from kit seller that's no longer around, so they didn't need to do this but were charged a premium), you don't need to buy an expensive hood (like Drager or Scott). I tried sourcing the hood and Nitrogen regulator from said kit directly from CN suppliers. It's possible to get the same or similar hood and click-style regulator/flow-meter yourself, but I ran into 2 problems: 1) hood: I ordered what was supposed to be the same or very similar model as the one from the kit, but what the supplier sent was slightly off. It was undersized/uncomfortable, hose length was barely 70cm instead of promised 1+ meter, and plug/nipple was something I didn't recognize (supplier said it was 9/16-18 UNF, but whatever don't need it so already cut it off), and 2) Nitrogen click-style regulator/flow-meter: supplier no longer wants to accept single or low quantity (basically non-bulk) orders, especially for CGA-580 (seemed maybe willing to sell single quantity orders for bull nose type connection).


$500 would be the total for setup @GasMonkey mentioned excluding the quick coupler. The Drager hood on its own from US website is $250-260, so that's half the cost. (Haven't found US site that sells the Scott hood compatible with CEJN 340 series coupler, only non-US sites, and it's more expensive and/or on back-order) The click-style regulator/flow-meter, CGA-032 to 1/4" NPT middle adapter, and pre-filled tank of Nitrogen (20/40 cu ft, not much difference in price) from AirGas altogether make up other half of cost. I didn't buy a Drager or Scott hood, since I had to research whether I could get coupler in US. Ended up getting yellow EEBD hood with all the issues I mentioned above for ~$15 + shipping (I guess you get what you pay for).


I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like NPT Rectus 95KS series couplers even exist. I've only seen BSPP (G1/4 or G3/8 like you said). CEJN lists 1/4" NPT 344 couplers even on its European HQ website, but I haven't been able to find one for sale. That said, I've only looked at UK sites because I can't read anything other than English (and everything is BSPP thread understandably). And no way am I going to pay $460+ for a Honeywell OEM CEJN series 344 coupler that may or may not be what I'm looking for. The whole reason I'd even started looking at this type of assembly was with the understanding that a compatible coupler would be available for a reasonable price, like it is in Europe.


This would be a good option if I could find the Scott hood for cheap and/or from a shop in US.


With 70 cm worth of hose to work with, I might have to get a bit creative with how I position cylinder and how to secure it so it doesn't fall, but this is the easiest and cheapest option for sure. I'd rather not buy additional hosing to extend it. It's not because it's difficult, just adds another point of failure (leak), and if I had 1 meter of hose to work with my setup would've been just fine (extra 30 cm of hose doesn't sound like much, but that's a whole 1 ft in imperial units). Just wish the seller had sent me a larger hood with a longer hose (as advertised).

Is 1,5 meter hose enough?

 

[outrider567]

@beefree I read somewhere that the noise is too loud for neighbors ( I have a eebd setup) can you let me know if that could be true?

Not true

 

[Falling Slowly]

How do I put hoseclamps on this connection? No need right?

View attachment 119959

Is 1,5 meter hose enough?

1.5 metres should be fine. Unless for some reason you need to keep the cylinder at a distance from the hood/mask.

If you have a Draeger or Scott hood with a hose and plug connection on it, and you need a longer hose, then you can just buy a Draeger/Scott extension hose with the same connection, with male and female connections on it, like this one :


Then it's just click-and-connecting the hood hose to the extension.
Any type of hose with a plug/coupling connection on it, there should be an extension hose for sale somewhere with the same type of connection on it.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Nitrogen exit bag failure: I ripped oft the bag, because I thought, the gas flow has stopped, but in reality my hearing has already stopped.

 

[Willthishelp?]

1.5 metres should be fine. Unless for some reason you need to keep the cylinder at a distance from the hood/mask.

If you have a Draeger or Scott hood with a hose and plug connection on it, and you need a longer hose, then you can just buy a Draeger/Scott extension hose with the same connection, with male and female connections on it, like this one :
View attachment 119971

Then it's just click-and-connecting the hood hose to the extension.
Any type of hose with a plug/coupling connection on it, there should be an extension hose for sale somewhere with the same type of connection on it.

Do I need clamps
with this system?

 

[Falling Slowly]

Do I need clamps
with this system? View attachment 119974

Vizzy talked about linking two hoses together using clamps etc., if the hose from your hood is too short and you need to attach two hoses together. (Also you would if you had to remove and change a plug connector on the end of a hood hose)

But if you have a Draeger hood or Scott ELSA hood(or a different hood/ mask with the same type of hose connector - cen-type connection or CEJN 344 connection), then no, you don't need to use clamps to extend your hose length. You can buy a Draeger or Scott 3m extension hose with the same male connector on one end
(Cen-type or CEJN 344 - ) and a similar female connector on the other. Like in the pic I posted above. I don't know how easy they are to get in your region, but they can be got. If you can't get the quick connect extension hose or its too expensive, then Vizzy's post using clamps etc is the way to go.

Ideally, you'll just buy a long enough hose (with plug connection) with your hood/mask, then no need to have to extend the hose with clamps etc, or via extension hose.
Why, is 1.5m hose not long enough for you?

 

[Willthishelp?]

Nitrogen exit bag failure: I ripped oft the bag, because I thought, the gas flow has stopped, but in reality my hearing has already stopped.

Can you tell more details on why it failed? And also how loud was the noise I heard it's as loud that neighbors can hear it. How long was your attempt? Would you try it again?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Its quiet, neighbors cannot hear it. Not louder than a water tap.

I was like in a dream and thougt the gas flow has stopped and ripped the bag off. But in reality my hearing has already stopped
Before I had a short vision like rollercoaster with heavy shaking of the body.
At the he beginning of the attempt I pressed the air out of the bag in a hurry, the gas flew already. Maybe it was too much oxygen in the BAG.
I dont know how long it lasted. The rollercoaster vision and shaking lasted not longer than a couple of seconds.

At the Moment I cannot imagine to do it again, it was not pleasant.
At first I wanted to repeat the attempt some hours later, but I got light Tinnitus and prickling at the body and so I stopped it. My heart was restless for one day.

Every opinion to my failure is very welcome.

 

[Willthishelp?]

Its quiet, neighbors cannot hear it. Not louder than a water tap.

I was like in a dream and thougt the gas flow has stopped and ripped the bag off. But in reality my hearing has already stopped
Before I had a short vision like rollercoaster with heavy shaking of the body.
At the he beginning of the attempt I pressed the air out of the bag in a hurry, the gas flew already. Maybe it was too much oxygen in the BAG.
I dont know how long it lasted. The rollercoaster vision and shaking lasted not longer than a couple of seconds.

At the Moment I cannot imagine to do it again, it was not pleasant.
At first I wanted to repeat the attempt some hours later, but I got light Tinnitus and prickling at the body and so I stopped it. My heart was restless for one day.

Every opinion to my failure is very welcome.

How long was your attempt lasting?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

How long was your attempt lasting?

Edit: According to the gas consumption I estimate, that I breathed Nitrogen for one minute or one and a half minute.

 

[Rinmo]

anyone know how loud is it when the gas is flowing to the exit bag or eebd or scba? will other people outside a very ventilated room hear it?

 

[outrider567]

anyone know how loud is it when the gas is flowing to the exit bag or eebd or scba? will other people outside a very ventilated room hear it?

No, nobody will hear it but you--In my tests, I use ear plugs, personal preference

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Hi,

Can I use this method while lying down (without a pillow at all)?

I read here and there that this method must be done while sitting in a suitable chair, but I insist on lying down.

 

[outrider567]

Hi,

Can I use this method while lying down (without a pillow at all)?

I read here and there that this method must be done while sitting in a suitable chair, but I insist on lying down.

Yeah, I'll be lying down too

 

[anonaon]

I read here and there that this method must be done while sitting in a suitable chair, but I insist on lying down.

Thats only for exit bags. Methods thay have exhale valves (EEBD,SCBA,SCUBA) can be done lying down

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Thats only for exit bags. Methods thay have exhale valves (EEBD,SCBA,SCUBA) can be done lying down

I will most likely use the exit bag method.

Can I do it if I use a higher flow rate like 20-30 LPM? Or will there still be a high rate of failure?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

I will most likely use the exit bag method.

Can I do it if I use a higher flow rate like 20-30 LPM? Or will there still be a high rate of failure?

30 lpm is much too high. This doesn't reduce the failure rate. Some people say, 20 lpm is good, official 15 lpm are enough.

 

[Dolphin55]

30 lpm is much too high. This doesn't reduce the failure rate. Some people say, 20 lpm is good, official 15 lpm are enough.

Does anyone know what the failure rate is? I'm hoping failures are just due to faulty equipment/insufficient gas

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Does anyone know what the failure rate is? I'm hoping failures are just due to faulty equipment/insufficient gas

It seems that you must tie up your hands, it is a certain possibility that you rip off your bag.

 

[anonaon]

It seems that you must tie up your hands, it is a certain possibility that you rip off your bag.

That has never happened before. Once you're unconscious your movements will be very minor, certainly not enough to rip the bag off.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

That has never happened before. Once you're unconscious your movements will be very minor, certainly not enough to rip the bag off.

Some members of this forum shared other experiences, unfortunately.

 

[BrainDamageFromMob]

Does anyone know how effective a full face scuba mask with built into regulator connected to a pure nitrogen tank is?

I believe I could put the mask on, purge the O2 inside it by flushing it with pure nitrogen, then just taking normal breaths would work? A full face scuba mask with built in regulator would allow you to take in full breaths and exhale CO2 out of the mask, allowing only pure nitrogen to be breathed in with no build up of CO2.

Anyone have advice on this? I have read that some people worry about how air tight the mask is, but I imagine its tight enough and/or use petrol jelly around the edges if needed that I could prevent O2 from coming in. I have seen reports of this working online, but also some people nay saying it as not as effective. I just thought it would be more peaceful to be able to see clearly before passing out.

 

[ztem]

Hi guys, if I am using a 50 PSI flow meter and a separate regulator, should the order of operations be (1) open the gas valve (2) adjust pressure to 50 PSI on the regulator (3) adjust the flow meter knob to 15LPM (equivalent to ~32 CFH)?

If you are in a CGA region,go with this.

Anyone have yellow mask like vizzy guide?
Have question about using it. If you wear it, not setup yet, should you run out of air?
Am trying it and can breathe even if plug hose.

If you're not sure about your hood,do what Vizzy did,this is the best way to increase your confidence in the setup.

How do I put hoseclamps on this connection? No need right?

You don't need it.That hose clamp was for the barbed side of the quick coupler.

 

[BrainDamageFromMob]

Some members of this forum shared other experiences, unfortunately.

Have you looked into full face scuba mask connected to pure nitrogen tank? I am trying to find people with knowledge on if this is a good method. It would allow you to breath in pure nitrogen while exhaling CO2 out of the mask so there is no build up of CO2. I'm wondering if this method would be better because you could see clearly until you pass out and there would be no CO2 buildup whatsoever.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

30 lpm is much too high. This doesn't reduce the failure rate. Some people say, 20 lpm is good, official 15 lpm are enough.

I tried the setup on my dummy head with a snug fit, but the bag wouldn't get pressurized at all, even at the highest LPM set.
The gas hose at the back of the dummy head leaves an opening. I think that's what is causing it.
The oxygen reading did go down to 0%.

Should I tighten the elastic more?

Photos of my dummy setup:

 

[outrider567]

Does anyone know what the failure rate is? I'm hoping failures are just due to faulty equipment/insufficient gas

As per Greenberg, the failure rate is zero

 

[Falling Slowly]

Have you looked into full face scuba mask connected to pure nitrogen tank? I am trying to find people with knowledge on if this is a good method. It would allow you to breath in pure nitrogen while exhaling CO2 out of the mask so there is no build up of CO2. I'm wondering if this method would be better because you could see clearly until you pass out and there would be no CO2 buildup whatsoever.

Go back over the thread, plenty has been said about the use of a scuba mask. The use of a SCBA(self contained breathing apparatus), i.e. not an underwater SCUBA setup, seems the more popular option.

There are other more expert posters on the issue here, but from having a quick look back over old posts, it seems SCUBA masks can either be positive pressure or negative pressure masks; and you need a positive pressure mask to be certain no exterior air getting into the mask (I could be corrected on this).

Anyway, it seems pretty much everyone who has gone down the self contained breathing apparatus route has gone for SCBA as opposed to SCUBA.
Here are some examples: here and here

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

So I finally managed to test the purity of my N2 cilinder which should have a quality of 4.6 (->99,996%) according the supplier.
I used the CY-12C (it's mentioned many times and an oxygen meter doesn't kill, so I guess it's allowed) for testing, but it doesn't seem accurate.
I followed the procedure from PPeH two times and the first time it read 0,8% and the second time 0,5%. It also fluctuates heavily when you use the balloon to pump normal air around. I don't have much reason to not trust the source of the N2 because they sell in almost every city in 1-2 stores. So I'm either doing something wrong or the meter doesn't work well. @Das Nichts: how did it work out for you?

So I got a new meter and now it reads 0,07%, which means that the quality is higher then 99,8%. This meter is also more stable, so it was indeed a malfunctioning meter. I'm now waiting for the rest of the SCUBA equipement and then I'll do a blackout test.

 

[outrider567]

As per Greenberg, the failure rate is zero with EEBD hood or proper exit bag

So I got a new meter and now it reads 0,07%, which means that the quality is higher then 99,8%. This meter is also more stable, so it was indeed a malfunctioning meter. I'm now waiting for the rest of the SCUBA equipement and then I'll do a blackout test.

Can't get better than 99.8% purity

 

[puffnstuff]

So I did a test run with the EB method and nitrogen. Everything went well but about a minute in I felt like I was sufficating and had to remove the bag. Any advice on what I might be doing wrong?