Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[DeadHead]

Without getting into your personal affairs, do bank accounts not close after someones death? And funds transferred?

It seems that I can only get nitrogen cylinders on rental in my country, can't buy outright. And when looking up cylinders for sale in the EU that ship to here, they all seem to have an EU standard connection on their cylinders, not British standard. The regulator I have has a BSP ( British standard ) connection, so it won't fit an EU standard cylinder.
I'm not sure of adapters that convert EU standard to British standard for cylinder connections. Seem hard to get.

I think I'll just stick to rental (9L) , dispose of anything that mentions the vendor, and maybe not mention the return of the cylinder at all. I presume my bank account will be closed, and vendor can't pursue.

I think it may be for the best for a vendor not to know that his product was used for ctb.

No your account is not just closed. Your direct debits still go out, etc until your executor applies for probate. It can take a long time. Then once probate has been completed, your executor arranges transfer of your funds in accordance with your will- after any debts,tax etc has been settled.

 

[cerealandmilk]

Probably going with this method but it will take long to gather everything together

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

 

[Eudaimonic]

is it really contain that much gas? it's a small tank only weight 11kg.

Given those numbers, yes.

i can afford these two, are these ok?
is regulator really needed? there's a knob on top of the canister.
is there anything else that i should know, like connectors type or something?

For an exit bag, you don't need a pressure regulator, only a flow regulator. A pressure regulator is needed for SCUBA/SCBA because of the demand valve.

 

[Das Nichts]

For an exit bag, you don't need a pressure regulator, only a flow regulator. A pressure regulator is needed for SCUBA/SCBA because of the demand valve.

Pressure regulator is a viable term. To be pendantic you need a pressure regulator/reducer with a flowmeter.

 

[リンさん]

Will buying Nitrogen raise any suspicions? What should I say if someone asks me the purpose of purchasing it?

For reference, I'm a woman living in Eastern Europe. I definitely don't come off as a professional lol.

 

[anonaon]

Will buying Nitrogen raise any suspicions?

Not really

What should I say if someone asks me the purpose of purchasing it?

Nitrogen has a lot of food applications like making cold brew coffee at home or preserving bulked goods like beans, wheat, even chips...

If youre confident enough you can even make up random bs like trying to create a cyrogenic reptile tank for your new pet snake or smth

 

[curtaincall]

Does the cylinder have to be vertical?

I may need to put it on its side. Online advice says don't do this but does anyone know if it really has any impact?

 

[outrider567]

Does the cylinder have to be vertical?

I may need to put it on its side. Online advice says don't do this but does anyone know if it really has any impact?

no idea, but mine will be standing up

 

[sensenmann]

Does the cylinder have to be vertical?

I may need to put it on its side. Online advice says don't do this but does anyone know if it really has any impact?

It should be stored vertical for long term, when transporting it is fine to put horizontal if the transport cap is screwed on.

When it is horizontal, there is more pressure being put on the valve, and that get dangerous if there is liquid gas in the cylinder.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

When it is horizontal, there is more pressure being put on the valve, and that get dangerous if there is liquid gas in the cylinder.
[/QUOTE]
I think gas, that is not liquid, like Nitrogen, can be used horizontal?

 

[Falling Slowly]

In previous posts, some people were wondering about the coupling/coupler that goes with a Scott 3M ELSA hood hose connection, to hook up to a regulator with a BSP (British Standard) connection. The Rectus 95ks female coupling DOES fit that hood hose connection, I checked it today. (Mine is a 3/8" female coupling that hooks up to a regulator with a 3/8" outlet. )

So any hood/mask with a CEN-type hose connection, use a Rectus 95ks coupling with a British standard regulator; in the U.S. use a CEJN 340 series female coupling to hook up to a U.S. standard regulator.

And if your hood hose is too short, just buy a 3M Scott extension hose with the same CEN-type connection. No need to go cutting hoses and messing with adapters, it's all click-and- connect from hose to coupling/coupler. Then screw on the coupler to the regulator.

Thanks to @GasMonkey and others for pointing me in the right direction for that coupling.

 

[sensenmann]

When it is horizontal, there is more pressure being put on the valve, and that get dangerous if there is liquid gas in the cylinder.

I think gas, that is not liquid, like Nitrogen, can be used horizontal?
[/QUOTE]
It should be fine, just secure it somehow to make sure it doesn't roll away.

 

[Willthishelp?]

both will do the job but the 5L cylinder provides a greater safety margin

Is 5 liter enough for eebd?

 

[Falling Slowly]

Is 5 liter enough for eebd? 2

Plenty enough. 2 litre is probably enough if you have your setup done properly and don't waste any gas. But I switched from a 2 litre to a 9 litre(next one up in the place I purchased) just to give room to test the whole setup out, and not be worried I don't have enough gas to ctb.

 

[Willthishelp?]

Plenty enough. 2 litre is probably enough if you have your setup done properly and don't waste any gas. But I switched from a 2 litre to a 9 litre(next one up in the place I purchased) just to give room to test the whole setup out, and not be worried I don't have enough gas to ctb.

I am still scared it's not enough.. it's only like 40 minutes at 25 lpm right

 

[Falling Slowly]

I am still scared it's not enough.. it's only like 40 minutes at 25 lpm right

Well, according to the PPH, death from hypoxia occurs in 5-10 mins (@15 LPM). So 40 mins at 25 lpm is plenty.

 

[ipmanwc0]

Do people favor SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD over the exit bag because they're more reliable? Additionally, after reading PPH I inferred that with the exit bag you can pull it down and take a deep breath and lose consciousness after only a couple breaths whereas SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD takes at least 30 seconds. So with the latter, you are more likely to succeed but have half a minute of discomfort and time to back out (which is I consider a bad thing)? Also SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD needs a higher flow rate (25 lpm vs exit bag 15lpm according to pph)? Please advise in detail and thank you.

 

[outrider567]

Do people favor SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD over the exit bag because they're more reliable? Additionally, after reading PPH I inferred that with the exit bag you can pull it down and take a deep breath and lose consciousness after only a couple breaths whereas SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD takes at least 30 seconds. So with the latter, you are more likely to succeed but have half a minute of discomfort and time to back out (which is I consider a bad thing)? Also SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD needs a higher flow rate (25 lpm vs exit bag 15lpm according to pph)? Please advise in detail and thank you.

EEBD Hood does not need a higher flow rate, 15 LPM is fine(but be warned at testing it on yourself at 25 LPH)-- and you will not lose conciousness after just 2 breaths using the exit bag, ridiculous

 

[ipmanwc0]

EEBD Hood does not need a higher flow rate, 15 LPM is fine(but be warned at testing it on yourself at 25 LPH)-- and you will not lose conciousness after just 2 breaths using the exit bag, ridiculous

PPeH page 116 "Within one or two breaths consciousness will be lost"

 

[outrider567]

PPeH page 116 "Within one or two breaths consciousness will be lost"

Total bullshit, I've self tested many times with Exit Bags and EEBD Hood, taken 5 breaths and never came close to passing out, all but one time were at 15 LPM, and once at 25 LPM--Ask Dach Nichts how many breaths he took before he passed out(25 LPM)

 

[ipmanwc0]

Total bullshit, I've self tested many times with Exit Bags and EEBD Hood, taken 5 breaths and never came close to passing out, all but one time were at 15 LPM, and once at 25 LPM--Ask Dach Nichts how many breaths he took before he passed out(25 LPM)

Yeah you're right probably now that I think of it it doesn't actually make sense to lose consciousness that fast. Guess I blindly believed that mistake in the handbook. But still the exit bag should be faster right because it is already full of nitrogen whereas the alternatives aren't. Can you answer my other questions? Is the time before you pass out uncomfortable? Are the exit bag alternatives so much more reliable as to be worth the hassle (I'm seeing that the exit bag is just a hose whereas the alternatives require weird connections that kind of confuse me when I read about them earlier in the thread)? Is there a specific EEBD/SCUBA/SCBA that is popular/known to be reliable here?

 

[anonaon]

Yeah you're right probably now that I think of it it doesn't actually make sense to lose consciousness that fast. Guess I blindly believed that mistake in the handbook. But still the exit bag should be faster right because it is already full of nitrogen whereas the alternatives aren't.

It depends on the person. 1 member on the dignitas, or Dr. Russel Ogden's, study passed out in 12 seconds. No one can exactly tell you when exactly you'll become unconscious but its very quick (no more than a min)

Is the time before you pass out uncomfortable?

No

Are the exit bag alternatives so much more reliable as to be worth the hassle

In my opinion, yes. I wouldnt trust my life with a turkey bag

Is there a specific EEBD/SCUBA/SCBA that is popular/known to be reliable here?

The EEBD and SCBA are both solid. @GasMonkey is not a huge advocate of SCUBA but if it has positive pressure then it should be viable

But still the exit bag should be faster right because it is already full of nitrogen whereas the alternatives aren't.

The EEBD and SCBA can also be prefilled before donning. Not sure about SCUBA

 

[ipmanwc0]

I'm looking for a specific eebd/scba/scuba. There seems to be a lot out there and probably most will work but not all of them so I'm looking for a specific product suggestion. I wish someone would make a shopping cart or something of all the things you would need

 

[ztem]

I'm looking for a specific eebd/scba/scuba. There seems to be a lot out there and probably most will work but not all of them so I'm looking for a specific product suggestion. I wish someone would make a shopping cart or something of all the things you would need

Where are you from?
How much do you want to spend?

 

[ipmanwc0]

Where are you from?
How much do you want to spend?

California. Honestly cost isn't a big factor I need something reliable.

 

[ztem]

US SCBA:
Drager 2216 psi PAS Lite
Drager FPS 7000(R56200)
CGA-580 to CGA-346 adapter
~2000$

US hood setup:
Drager rescue hood~250$
Drager CEJN 344 coupler~140$
ACU-200 reg~100$
Middle adapter(CGA-032 to 1/4 NPT)~15$

Both will kill you,the choice is yours

 

[Willthishelp?]

Can I use and argon regulator with nitrogen cilinder?

 

[dm1444]

Can I use and argon regulator with nitrogen cilinder?

Yes, you can.

 

[Willthishelp?]

Yes, you can.de you

Yes, you can.

do you know goodbye threads of people who were successful with eebd cbt?

 

[dm1444]

do you know goodbye threads of people who were successful with eebd cbt

@Vizzy