Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[DeadHead]

Total bullshit, I've self tested many times with Exit Bags and EEBD Hood, taken 5 breaths and never came close to passing out, all but one time were at 15 LPM, and once at 25 LPM--Ask Dach Nichts how many breaths he took before he passed out(25 LPM)

This concerns me, how many breaths would you say it takes with an exit bag? Honestly pph has no credibility and this perfectly illustrates why. I mean if you're expecting to be out in 2 breaths and you're not, you may think something is wrong (bag leaking) and abandon your plan unnecessarily.

 

[pphinquiry]

Can those Draeger masks (e.g. the FPS 7000) be connected to a normal nitrogen/Argon regulator(with coupler)? Is their connection on their hose the same CEN-type connection that's on the 3M Scott hood? That pas lite setup to go with the mask is an expensive setup.


For a U.S. setup, would you not use a CEJN 340 series coupler, with a 1/4" female thread to screw onto the regulator? Why the need for a middle adapter?

I'm not in the U.S., in Europe, I picked up a cylinder of pure nitrogen lately and wasn't asked any questions.
As stated in previous posts it can be used for welding, home beer brewing, to name two main ones.

Theres really no such thing as "pure ". It all has contaminants.

The trouble is, if your backstory is around food, I can't think of any reason why youd be very picky about above 98.5.

In my experience the vendors usually want to discuss what you are doing with it. Especially if you start making specific requests like wanting high purity.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Theres really no such thing as "pure ". It all has contaminants.

The trouble is, if your backstory is around food, I can't think of any reason why youd be very picky about above 98.5.

In my experience the vendors usually want to discuss what you are doing with it. Especially if you start making specific requests like wanting high purity.

"Pure" was the wrong word, I meant the nitrogen I got is not mixed in with other gases. I presume 98.5% you talk of is fine.

Others have commented on this thread that they weren't asked about their use of the nitrogen when purchasing. Depends on the vendor I guess, but you've got reasons to give them anyway if asked.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Having a little trouble understanding the cylinder sizes. Is this sufficient?

The cylinder sizes can be a bit confusing alright. The cylinders are usually given by litre size (or in cubic metres/feet), but the actual amount of compressed gas in the cylinder is different.
Going by the PPH, a 2 litre cylinder at 200 bar gives 400 litres of compressed nitrogen, which gives ~30 mins of nitrogen @15 litres per minute.

I haven't come across that cylinder description before that you link. It states:




Water volume= 5.9 litres. Is it a ~6 litre tank? If it is, it's plenty enough.
U.S. users may be familiar with this type of tank measurement (33A).

 

[ipmanwc0]

Should I buy a regulator that you can set lpm directly or one with lpm flow meter

 

[Falling Slowly]

Should I buy a regulator that you can set lpm directly or one with lpm flow meter

Do you mean a regulator with LPM on a guage versus one with LPM floating ball flowmeter?
Shouldn't matter.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Please stop mentioning the sources. It's against the forum rules and prolifers are reading this to. They contact the suppliers and make our lives even more difficult.

 

[Willthishelp?]

@TiredHorse hasn't posted in 4 years, he's not gonna reply you, he's no longer around.

Did he ctb with gas or failed?

 

[unebarque]

Hi guys, if I am using a 50 PSI flow meter and a separate regulator, should the order of operations be (1) open the gas valve (2) adjust pressure to 50 PSI on the regulator (3) adjust the flow meter knob to 15LPM (equivalent to ~32 CFH)?

 

[x0nSS]

Anyone have yellow mask like vizzy guide?
Have question about using it. If you wear it, not setup yet, should you run out of air?
Am trying it and can breathe even if plug hose.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Posted my Rescue Hood setup here. Might interest people buying British standard setup.

 

[Willthishelp?]

If you have too much doubt, test this equipment with oxygen to get a feel of how it works.

@beefree I read somewhere that the noise is too loud for neighbors ( I have a eebd setup) can you let me know if that could be true?

 

[thot88]

Does anyone have experience with what it feels like to lose consciousness to nitrogen or helium?

 

[callmeskin]

Nitrogen, u just black out really. nothing special

 

[Willthishelp?]

First of all,you need extension air hose for your hood,that hose is short.First,I suggest you cut the end of the hose with a hose cutter:
View attachment 116806

Tube Cutters

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You have 3 options for connecting your two hoses together.I assume that the hose size of your hood and your extension hose is 1/4 inch(6.3 mm ID and 13.5 mm OD),otherwise you should measure the inner and outside diameter size of the hose with a caliper.
(The size of the barbed side of the hose barb or hose barb plug/coupler depends on the inside diameter of the hose you want to use.)
Option 1:
1 double hose barb+2 hose clamps
https://tameson.com/products/f295e-6-mm-1-4inch-stainless-steel-1p4301-hose-connector-40-2-pieces

12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

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View attachment 116809
Option2 :
1 male and 1 female NPT or BSPP(G) or BSPT or UNF or... hose barb(the thread standard and size of the male and female threads of the two hose barbs must be the same)+teflon tape+2 hose clamps

G 1/4'' Male x 6mm Stainless steel Hose barb 40 Bar

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G 1/4'' x 6mm Stainless steel Hose barb 40 Bar

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12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

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Thread Sealing Tape Extremely High Density PTFE 4.6m

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Option 3:
1 hose barb plug(nipple)+1 hose barb socket(coupler)+ 2 hose clamps
(The style of the plug and the socket must be the same)
https://www.akvalvesltd.com/products/cejn-342-breathing-air-coupling?variant=31755171201129

Cejn 342 Breathing Air Coupling – AK Valves Ltd

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12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

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To connect the extension hose to the outlet of your regulator:
The outlet of your regulator is CGA-032 (5/8-18) female.
So you need "male CGA-032 (5/8-18) to 1/4 NPT(male or female (the following example is 1/4 NPT male))" adapter:
View attachment 116810

McMaster-Carr

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and then you need these two:
"1/4 NPT female to 1/4(6mm) barb" hose barb + 1 hose clamp

https://www.terrauniversal.com/connector-hose-barb-stainless-steel-1603-13.html

12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces]

Buy a 12 - 22 mm Hose Clamp with a Stainless Steel 304 9 mm band With Butterfly Handle - Norma [2 Pieces] online from Tameson today.

tameson.com

No matter which option you choose to connect your hoses,you need 3 hose clamps,2 for your two hoses and 1 for other end of the extension hose and your hose barb and don't forget to use the teflon tape for all of your male threads,If you use the teflon tape correctly,It will guarantee a leak-free connection.
Remember that in the gas industry, teflon tape and hose clamps are your best friends.

You can also buy all of these from a local store or whatever website that you want,these links are just examples about what you must buy for your fittings.

How do I put hoseclamps on this connection? No need right?

Yeah, not in US (I already have middle adapter). In Europe maybe you don't need middle adapter if you're using the regulator/flow-meter unit from the picture that shows how to connect plug/nipple to coupler to regulator/flow-meter (that's from a European site).


If you're going to modify hose yourself (I'm guessing some/many members bought hood from kit seller that's no longer around, so they didn't need to do this but were charged a premium), you don't need to buy an expensive hood (like Drager or Scott). I tried sourcing the hood and Nitrogen regulator from said kit directly from CN suppliers. It's possible to get the same or similar hood and click-style regulator/flow-meter yourself, but I ran into 2 problems: 1) hood: I ordered what was supposed to be the same or very similar model as the one from the kit, but what the supplier sent was slightly off. It was undersized/uncomfortable, hose length was barely 70cm instead of promised 1+ meter, and plug/nipple was something I didn't recognize (supplier said it was 9/16-18 UNF, but whatever don't need it so already cut it off), and 2) Nitrogen click-style regulator/flow-meter: supplier no longer wants to accept single or low quantity (basically non-bulk) orders, especially for CGA-580 (seemed maybe willing to sell single quantity orders for bull nose type connection).


$500 would be the total for setup @GasMonkey mentioned excluding the quick coupler. The Drager hood on its own from US website is $250-260, so that's half the cost. (Haven't found US site that sells the Scott hood compatible with CEJN 340 series coupler, only non-US sites, and it's more expensive and/or on back-order) The click-style regulator/flow-meter, CGA-032 to 1/4" NPT middle adapter, and pre-filled tank of Nitrogen (20/40 cu ft, not much difference in price) from AirGas altogether make up other half of cost. I didn't buy a Drager or Scott hood, since I had to research whether I could get coupler in US. Ended up getting yellow EEBD hood with all the issues I mentioned above for ~$15 + shipping (I guess you get what you pay for).


I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like NPT Rectus 95KS series couplers even exist. I've only seen BSPP (G1/4 or G3/8 like you said). CEJN lists 1/4" NPT 344 couplers even on its European HQ website, but I haven't been able to find one for sale. That said, I've only looked at UK sites because I can't read anything other than English (and everything is BSPP thread understandably). And no way am I going to pay $460+ for a Honeywell OEM CEJN series 344 coupler that may or may not be what I'm looking for. The whole reason I'd even started looking at this type of assembly was with the understanding that a compatible coupler would be available for a reasonable price, like it is in Europe.


This would be a good option if I could find the Scott hood for cheap and/or from a shop in US.


With 70 cm worth of hose to work with, I might have to get a bit creative with how I position cylinder and how to secure it so it doesn't fall, but this is the easiest and cheapest option for sure. I'd rather not buy additional hosing to extend it. It's not because it's difficult, just adds another point of failure (leak), and if I had 1 meter of hose to work with my setup would've been just fine (extra 30 cm of hose doesn't sound like much, but that's a whole 1 ft in imperial units). Just wish the seller had sent me a larger hood with a longer hose (as advertised).

Is 1,5 meter hose enough?

 

[outrider567]

@beefree I read somewhere that the noise is too loud for neighbors ( I have a eebd setup) can you let me know if that could be true?

Not true

 

[Falling Slowly]

How do I put hoseclamps on this connection? No need right?

View attachment 119959

Is 1,5 meter hose enough?

1.5 metres should be fine. Unless for some reason you need to keep the cylinder at a distance from the hood/mask.

If you have a Draeger or Scott hood with a hose and plug connection on it, and you need a longer hose, then you can just buy a Draeger/Scott extension hose with the same connection, with male and female connections on it, like this one :


Then it's just click-and-connecting the hood hose to the extension.
Any type of hose with a plug/coupling connection on it, there should be an extension hose for sale somewhere with the same type of connection on it.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Nitrogen exit bag failure: I ripped oft the bag, because I thought, the gas flow has stopped, but in reality my hearing has already stopped.

 

[Willthishelp?]

1.5 metres should be fine. Unless for some reason you need to keep the cylinder at a distance from the hood/mask.

If you have a Draeger or Scott hood with a hose and plug connection on it, and you need a longer hose, then you can just buy a Draeger/Scott extension hose with the same connection, with male and female connections on it, like this one :
View attachment 119971

Then it's just click-and-connecting the hood hose to the extension.
Any type of hose with a plug/coupling connection on it, there should be an extension hose for sale somewhere with the same type of connection on it.

Do I need clamps
with this system?

 

[Falling Slowly]

Do I need clamps
with this system? View attachment 119974

Vizzy talked about linking two hoses together using clamps etc., if the hose from your hood is too short and you need to attach two hoses together. (Also you would if you had to remove and change a plug connector on the end of a hood hose)

But if you have a Draeger hood or Scott ELSA hood(or a different hood/ mask with the same type of hose connector - cen-type connection or CEJN 344 connection), then no, you don't need to use clamps to extend your hose length. You can buy a Draeger or Scott 3m extension hose with the same male connector on one end
(Cen-type or CEJN 344 - ) and a similar female connector on the other. Like in the pic I posted above. I don't know how easy they are to get in your region, but they can be got. If you can't get the quick connect extension hose or its too expensive, then Vizzy's post using clamps etc is the way to go.

Ideally, you'll just buy a long enough hose (with plug connection) with your hood/mask, then no need to have to extend the hose with clamps etc, or via extension hose.
Why, is 1.5m hose not long enough for you?

 

[Willthishelp?]

Nitrogen exit bag failure: I ripped oft the bag, because I thought, the gas flow has stopped, but in reality my hearing has already stopped.

Can you tell more details on why it failed? And also how loud was the noise I heard it’s as loud that neighbors can hear it. How long was your attempt? Would you try it again?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Its quiet, neighbors cannot hear it. Not louder than a water tap.

I was like in a dream and thougt the gas flow has stopped and ripped the bag off. But in reality my hearing has already stopped
Before I had a short vision like rollercoaster with heavy shaking of the body.
At the he beginning of the attempt I pressed the air out of the bag in a hurry, the gas flew already. Maybe it was too much oxygen in the BAG.
I dont know how long it lasted. The rollercoaster vision and shaking lasted not longer than a couple of seconds.

At the Moment I cannot imagine to do it again, it was not pleasant.
At first I wanted to repeat the attempt some hours later, but I got light Tinnitus and prickling at the body and so I stopped it. My heart was restless for one day.

Every opinion to my failure is very welcome.

 

[Willthishelp?]

Its quiet, neighbors cannot hear it. Not louder than a water tap.

I was like in a dream and thougt the gas flow has stopped and ripped the bag off. But in reality my hearing has already stopped
Before I had a short vision like rollercoaster with heavy shaking of the body.
At the he beginning of the attempt I pressed the air out of the bag in a hurry, the gas flew already. Maybe it was too much oxygen in the BAG.
I dont know how long it lasted. The rollercoaster vision and shaking lasted not longer than a couple of seconds.

At the Moment I cannot imagine to do it again, it was not pleasant.
At first I wanted to repeat the attempt some hours later, but I got light Tinnitus and prickling at the body and so I stopped it. My heart was restless for one day.

Every opinion to my failure is very welcome.

How long was your attempt lasting?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

How long was your attempt lasting?

Edit: According to the gas consumption I estimate, that I breathed Nitrogen for one minute or one and a half minute.

 

[Rinmo]

anyone know how loud is it when the gas is flowing to the exit bag or eebd or scba? will other people outside a very ventilated room hear it?

 

[outrider567]

anyone know how loud is it when the gas is flowing to the exit bag or eebd or scba? will other people outside a very ventilated room hear it?

No, nobody will hear it but you--In my tests, I use ear plugs, personal preference

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Hi,

Can I use this method while lying down (without a pillow at all)?

I read here and there that this method must be done while sitting in a suitable chair, but I insist on lying down.

 

[outrider567]

Hi,

Can I use this method while lying down (without a pillow at all)?

I read here and there that this method must be done while sitting in a suitable chair, but I insist on lying down.

Yeah, I'll be lying down too

 

[anonaon]

I read here and there that this method must be done while sitting in a suitable chair, but I insist on lying down.

Thats only for exit bags. Methods thay have exhale valves (EEBD,SCBA,SCUBA) can be done lying down

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Thats only for exit bags. Methods thay have exhale valves (EEBD,SCBA,SCUBA) can be done lying down

I will most likely use the exit bag method.

Can I do it if I use a higher flow rate like 20-30 LPM? Or will there still be a high rate of failure?