Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[NoFutureAnymore]

That imperial shit is killing me

Uhm that sounds like an interesting way to ctb...

Ok thanks, could you kindly pm me the full name or is that it? I'm also a little concerned that if I am able to get it from another country, I'll struggle to find the accessories to fit it. Honestly, I wish I'd bought this stuff instead of pentobarbital when I was on this board years ago, because I think it was easier then.

Check your inbox, but maybe you should first look at the sources that @Das Nichts found.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

So I finally managed to test the purity of my N2 cilinder which should have a quality of 4.6 (->99,996%) according the supplier.
I used the CY-12C (it's mentioned many times and an oxygen meter doesn't kill, so I guess it's allowed) for testing, but it doesn't seem accurate.
I followed the procedure from PPeH two times and the first time it read 0,8% and the second time 0,5%. It also fluctuates heavily when you use the balloon to pump normal air around. I don't have much reason to not trust the source of the N2 because they sell in almost every city in 1-2 stores. So I'm either doing something wrong or the meter doesn't work well. @Das Nichts: how did it work out for you?

 

[DeadHead]

I did a quick search for home brewing in the uk and it looks like they don't have pure nitrogen, only mixed with other inert gases.
Did find several shops for good grade nitrogen. I suggest you check again @DeadHead before trying to import this stuff.

Is a 10litre tank of nitrogen at 200 bar enough?

 

[ztem]

Is a 10litre tank of nitrogen at 200 bar enough?

I dont know about you but It can kill an elephant.

 

[DeadHead]

I dont know about you but It can kill an elephant.

Ok and what regulator do I need. Is the flow meter a separate thing to the regulator? The website talks about various types and I have no idea what the difference is. I posted the types of regulators they have in a separate new thread because I thought there'd be more chance of answers there.

 

[ztem]

Ok and what regulator do I need. Is the flow meter a separate thing to the regulator? The website talks about various types and I have no idea what the difference is. I posted the types of regulators they have in a separate new thread because I thought there'd be more chance of answers there.

Yesterday,I sent you two regulators.1 for BS3(UK) and 1 for DIN10(W24.32).

 

[DeadHead]

Yesterday,I sent you two regulators.1 for BS3(UK) and 1 for DIN10(W24.32).

Sorry to sound thick but how do I know which of those will fit the tank? I don't know what the difference is between them.

 

[Das Nichts]

Sorry to sound thick but how do I know which of those will fit the tank? I don't know what the difference is between them.

W24.32 if you import from Germany. BS3 if you buy domestic.

Did you read the pph ?

 

[ztem]

how do I know which of those will fit the tank?

If you bought your cylinder from UK,go with that BS3 reg.Check your pms.

 

[DeadHead]

W24.32 if you import from Germany. BS3 if you buy domestic.

Did you read the pph ?

Yes but I can't remember what I read.

 

[ztem]

@Techef
I just spoke to @winterparty ,he bought 3M Scott hood+ Rectus 95KS female coupler and he said they are compatible.

In short,EU members can buy ~70e Rectus 95KS female coupler and they can use both hoods.

 

[Das Nichts]

That rescue hood could be a game changer.

 

[winterparty]

You can ask me anything about the "quick solution". It's the idea of gasmonkey and it should be common standard here. To make it more easy & accessible for everyone.

 

[Das Nichts]

You can ask me anything about the "quick solution". It's the idea of gasmonkey and it should be common standard here. To make it more easy & accessible for everyone.

Very tempted to get this myself since I always prefered exit bag over scba.

Could you post a picture of the inside ? I have a hard time picturing the following;

Pull the hood over the head of the individual to be rescued. Align the
visor of the hood to cover the face and ensure that the front inhalation
port is located at the nose and mouth. To minimise air leakage, grip the
neck cord and with the other hand press the spring loaded toggle, pull
up firmly to close the neck seal around the neck and throat ensuring it
is not too tight and is a close comfortable fit.

 

[ztem]

I always prefered exit bag over scba.

Yeah hood is a really good setup.
For SCBA/SCUBA setups, the mask is the main determining factor in the quality/comfort of the setup. For example FPS 7000 for SCBA and Neptune III for SCUBA greatly increases the quality/comfort of the setup.

@GasMonkey said:
The FPS 7000 is the best mask that I have tried. I have tested 4 different masks (MSA 3S-PS-MAXX, QG Marine (escMode), Dräger Panorama Nova, Dräger FPS 7000) and the FPS 7000 was the best one, with the least exhalation resistance (is a top-notch high-end firefighting mask).

For the regulator the PAS Lite is the best option because is the most light. The PSS 3000/4000/5000/7000 are also valid but they are much more expensive, heavier and with a bunch of extras that will take more work to disassemble. You have to extract the regulator from the backplate to reduce the weight as much as possible since that weight will be hanging from the air-to-nitrogen adapter so it must be as light as possible.

Part number of GasMonkey's FPS7000 mask was 56200.

 

[Das Nichts]

 

[k1w1]

Dear members of the Nitrogen Master Race. The time for a dry assembly of my components is upon me & I am hoping for some input from Gas Monkey, Ztem, Anonanon et all.
The regulator came with a screw-on barb fitting, unlike others I have seen this allows the barb to seat within a concave seat. Along with it came an o-ring. Would my colleagues here have a look at the images & chime in if the O-ring is in the correct place to effect a seal belween the regulator & barb. Thanks guys.

 

[Das Nichts]

Would my colleagues here have a look at the images & chime in if the O-ring is in the correct place to effect a seal belween the regulator & barb. Thanks guys.

yep

 

[k1w1]

yep

Thanks for a rapid response Das Nichts.

 

[Das Nichts]

Thanks for a rapid response Das Nichts.

You're welcome

 

[k1w1]

You're welcome

Conversation started, in your mail.

 

[Das Nichts]

So I finally managed to test the purity of my N2 cilinder which should have a quality of 4.6 (->99,996%) according the supplier.
I used the CY-12C (it's mentioned many times and an oxygen meter doesn't kill, so I guess it's allowed) for testing, but it doesn't seem accurate.
I followed the procedure from PPeH two times and the first time it read 0,8% and the second time 0,5%. It also fluctuates heavily when you use the balloon to pump normal air around. I don't have much reason to not trust the source of the N2 because they sell in almost every city in 1-2 stores. So I'm either doing something wrong or the meter doesn't work well. @Das Nichts: how did it work out for you?

• Did you calibrate on 50% or 100% level ?
• Did you wait for 3 - 5 minutes for the oxygen meter to stabilize ?
• Did you calibrate with ball pump and hose attached ?

 

[winterparty]

You think this one is fine for o2 testing? https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0BGXP6CS8?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_imag

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

• Did you calibrate on 50% or 100% level ?

The version I have has strangely enough 5%, 25%, 100%. So I calibrated at 25%.

• I squeezed the ball pump for maybe 10 times
• Waited at least 3 minutes
• Calibrated to 21%
• Connected the oxygen hose to the flow restrictor on the N2 bottle
• Switched to 5%
• Opened it and waited a few minutes until the value looked stable

I did also a second test without using nitrogen:

• I squeezed the ball pump for maybe 10 times
• Waited at least 3 minutes
• Calibrated to 21%
• Squeezed again like 10 times
• Waited again 5 minutes
• And now it says 21,7% in the same normal air?!

So it seems that it has to be calibrated after every flow trough the meter.

The biggest problem is the manual which only contains Chinese. So I don't know exactly when to use the pump. I'm considering to order the O2Box from forensics detectors, because this honestly makes me a little bit nervous. I tried yesterday even a third time and then it even didn't go below 1%.

 

[winterparty]

You think this one is fine for o2 testing? https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0BGXP6CS8?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_imag

 

[Das Nichts]

Looks about right. To be fair, I did not my testing some months ago so I'll have to redo it and make some notes.

I'm considering to order the O2Box from forensics detectors, because this honestly makes me a little bit nervous. I tried yesterday even a third time and then it even didn't go below 1%.

@GasMonkey was suggesting that unit might move insensitive as opposed to the cy-12c but there is no evidence to back this up or contradict it.

You think this one is fine for o2 testing? https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0BGXP6CS8?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_imag

I'm not knowledgeable enough about the topic and it's also not my biggest concern.
Somebody should probably invest the time and do propere reserach about resulation and all the stuff that matters with that.

Personal opinion: I prefer a device that measures a single property that I'm interested in with reasonable precision and not 3 additional different things.
I also don't use 7in1 shower gels

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

@GasMonkey was suggesting that unit might move insensitive as opposed to the cy-12c but there is no evidence to back this up or contradict it.

Yes, I see it has some bad reviews too.

You think this one is fine for o2 testing? https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0BGXP6CS8?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_imag

The reviews look good. I'm not sure if you can connect the oxygen hose to it.

 

[Das Nichts]

The reviews look good. I'm not sure if you can connect the oxygen hose to it.

Nah. You need to put it in a bag and fill it with gas. Something I also do not prefer.

FWIW: I found a video where a guy used a much more precise device to validate
the CY-12C measurements.

 

[theEndCH]

Sorry for interrupting the CO method discussion.. but I want to share it in this thread as well.
I did some further research about suicide with CO2 and I think you can CTB with it.
At i'ts best, you should get unconscious before you can recognize the CO2 gas in a small room / in the car. Therefore, I will show you 3 different cases I could find about the aftermath of the gas CO2 .


I Case
A family of 4 got accidentally unconscious because of the leaking CO2 bottle for Aquariums inside their car.

​

The translation of the article in English

KRIENS: Family of four almost suffocated in the Sonnenberg tunnel After Saturday shopping, a family of four is driving on the A2 motorway when carbon dioxide suddenly fills the interior of the car. Thanks to an attentive motorist, they survived.​

​

The incident occurred at noon on Saturday, at 11.45 a.m., on the A2 motorway in Kriens. A family of four was on their way home after shopping. Shortly before the Sonnenberg tunnel entrance, the CO2 gas cylinder for the aquarium leaked after a defect, according to the Lucerne police.​

​

The gas quickly poured out and filled the interior of the vehicle. In the middle of the tunnel, the car slowed down more and more, came to a standstill and then rolled backwards into the fast lane. For several minutes, following road users drove past the family until finally someone stopped and inquired about the occupants.​

​

The entire family sat unconscious in the car. After the doors were opened, they gradually recovered. Two ambulances took the family to the hospital. They were unharmed. However, the family was very lucky in misfortune: According to forensic medicine, there was an extremely high risk of suffocation for the unconscious.​

And this video shows the situatioin. The car was standing, the people were unconscious inside until someone opened the doors after approximentally 4 minutes. No one of them was in panic or tried to open the while being in panic. They where just unconscious.




II Case
A family died. The mom and the two kids got murdered by the father through suffocation and then he commited suicide. This article shows what the newspaper wrote. But when you read the forensic case report about this case you can read that the family father used a 500g CO2 bottle for Aquariums, inhalation masks and a bag plus rope for himself - to murder this family and commit suicide after.


III Case
The last case is about suicide with baking soda and citirc acid.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Nah. You need to put it in a bag and fill it with gas. Something I also do not prefer.

You can see something which looks like an oxygen hose connected to it in the video on amazon at 0:11. It looks like you can put a cap on it with a connection for a hose.

FWIW: I found a video where a guy used a much more precise device to validate
the CY-12C measurements.

It also shows a difference of 1.8% with the more professional device.