Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Raum]

@Raum, the regulator in your attachment is a pressure regulator. What you require is a FLOW regulator with the output gauge indicating gas flow in liters per minute (LPM). Best, G

Is this one suitable then?
I had googled BOC sites again, and i think they had one for 40 quid, but now i see its out of stock and most options are 100-150+ lol. So ill settle with this more "second hand" option.

You consider the rest are suitable? I dont really know the conversion so would that 10 liter translate into enough liters of gas for 40~ mins? ( At max, due to post, better safe than sorry.)

 

[LifeHasNoOptIn]

Hey friends! Im just looking to carefully compile all of the materials needed for my peaceful exit, but even after reading the thread+ peaceful pill im still at unease with certain factors. Mainly the purchase and suitability of the gas regulator and tubing.

Attached below i shared my "shopping list", if anyone in the know would be able to confirm if i have the right things id be eternally greatful.
Suggestions if those aren't right are also very much welcome. (Based in uk).

I also attached two different sizes of oven bags, before i make them into exit bags.
Im doubtful as to which one will be better. The first smaller one fix perfectly snug on my head ( if a little too tight, when i breathe in it sticks to my nostrils without airflow) and the second is larger, but but theres quite a bit to crumble out the air, before i pull it onto my head, and quite a few leftover after.

The first crumbles and leaves marks on it, while the second is more like actual plastic that leaves no marks after being handled. Which is more suitable to use?


If anyone greenlights my shopping card i will buy it and probably do a follow up with questions/feedback.

Please be kind enough to aid me onto this last journey of mine. Thank you!

Looking at the regulator pictured, it appears to have the incorrect connector for the UK region. It is CGA-580 which is for the NA region from my understanding. The tank specs specify the outlet valve as - BS No.3: 5/8" BSP RH INT. You will need a regulator with that type connector. Esc Mode has some prefab options tailored to region to make the process easier, but at a very increased cost compared to getting the parts direct. If nothing else, you can use the examples on their site to give you a good idea of what you are looking to reverse engineer of sorts to get the proper pieces for your region.

The picture below is an example of a regulator that appears to have the proper connector for your region. No idea if this one would work specifically as it is for Argon and is just intended as an example of the proper connector type for the UK



Disclaimer: I have not set up an N2EB and am just relaying info based on my research thus far. I could be completely wrong.

 

[Raum]

Looking at the regulator pictured, it appears to have the incorrect connector for the UK region. It is CGA-580 which is for the NA region from my understanding. The tank specs specify the outlet valve as - BS No.3: 5/8" BSP RH INT. You will need a regulator with that type connector. Esc Mode has some prefab options tailored to region to make the process easier, but at a very increased cost compared to getting the parts direct. If nothing else, you can use the examples on their site to give you a good idea of what you are looking to reverse engineer of sorts to get the proper pieces for your region.

The picture below is an example of a regulator that appears to have the proper connector for your region. No idea if this one would work specifically as it is for Argon and is just intended as an example of the proper connector type for the UK

View attachment 89673

Disclaimer: I have not set up an N2EB and am just relaying info based on my research thus far. I could be completely wrong.

That.. sounds really convoluted honestly.. everywhere i read was about the CGA ome but i shouldve figured they aren't universal.

If its not too much trouble, could anyone more knowledge than me in such terms put together a shopping list for the correct tank+gas+tubing?

If its in the uk and ships internationally i should be able to buy it as well, and although cheaper is preferable im not that short on money either.

Would hate to buysome stuff, two weeks later it comes and it doesn't fit/isnt fit for purpose.

At least if someone that knows what they are saying shares the links for the specific items i must buy, at least i can rest assured any failure is by user error, not component mismatch.

Sorry again if this is asking too much.

 

[Greenberg]

@Raum: you may find it helpful to review on my blog on the exit bag method. The link is under my photo. Best, G

 

[TheStandard]

There are some reports of people pulling off the bag after being unconcious, as an unconcious survival mechanism of the brain system. It is hard to tell if those reports are only bad rumors as I never heared a first hand validation of it. However, I had an unsucessfull attempt with carbon monoxide in a bathroom several years ago in which my body somehow managed to crawl across the bathroom (couldn't walk) and open the closed door. I wasn't really fully concious and my wish to die was 100% .It was an extremly unpleasant experience and one of the reasons why I wasn't brave enough to repeat it again. The oxygen deprivation was likely not as fast with carbon monoxide as it should be with the exit bag/inert gas method- Anyway, I am still asking myself if my body would be able to manage to get the bag off at some point.
Based on my experience, I would assume, that oxygen deprivation is diminishing concious cognitive abilities, but doesn't 100% necessariliy knock out the brains ability to unconciously find a way out.


That's why I found getting my hands tied up somehow being maybe crucial. If anyone has knowledge and ideas to share on this - I would highly appreciate it. I am also working on being able to get my hands fast enough into ropes before unconciousness begins, but the question that remains is: Would my hands be able to get out of the ropes the way the got in? Is there a techniquall way to guarantee that they get tied up without finding a way out again?

Thanks in advance!

SI is a cunt and a half. It's literally the only reason I'm still here.

 

[Raum]

@Raum: you may find it helpful to review on my blog on the exit bag method. The link is under my photo. Best, G

Hey, would i be able to message you somehow privately to discuss?
I did check your forum as instructed, after careful reading and rereading i decided to go with the scuba option explained there.

Although the guide is extensive theres quite a few important details not mentioned (such as how to attach the mouthpiece to the mask in such a fashion its airtight+ component matching.)
I also put as close to a 1:1 shopping list as available but of course some components aren't the same and i would need some guidance. + I know its against the rules to post sources.

So, humbly, are you available for a chat in private?

 

[outrider567]

Not using a classic Exit Bag--Using a terry-cloth elastic headband instead to put around my neck at the base of the plastic bag after its filled up with Nitrogen---Headband has been cited here in a book that works using helium, but I'm sure it works with Nitrogen also---Adult headband seems slightly loose so I got a child's headband instead--Its snug, not too tight like rubber bands would be, so it should be enough to leak out the Co2 and the Nitrogen---I possess all the other equipment, the clear plastic tubing that is taped with duct tape both inside and outside the bag, that fits tightly from the flowmeter which is attached to the regulator which will be attached to the Nitrogen Gas cannister--Enough Nitrogen for at least 45 minutes at 20 liters per minute--I know 15 is usually mentioned as sufficient but I'll think I'll make it between 15 and 20---Nitrogen tank was shipped April 4th so it should be here within a few days--Will post again once it gets here

 

[WanderingWater]

?Elastic band?

?Could easily be removed during the "twitching" period?

?impede exit of Co2?

 

[outrider567]

Ok, the filled Nitrogen tank just got here---Seems the easiest regulator connection to the tank is the Regulator/Flowmeter, its way too costly at $330 from Australia (took about two weeks to get here) but its working fine, nice hissing sound from the plastic tube inside the bag--Max on flowmeter is 15 liters per minute, and the PSI is about 2200---Tested the gas flow into the turkey bag (duct tape around both sides of tube at plastic bag entry), (checked for leaks) and it filled up in about a minute---Using child terry cloth elastic headband around the taped end of the plastic bag to enable a snug fit, allowing some of the Co2 and Nitrogen to escape---Don't when I'll actually use it---My extreme depression is not getting any better since I lost my longtime girlfriend of 30 years, to kidney failure 3 months ago

 

[Deathinminutes]

@Raum: you may find it helpful to review on my blog on the exit bag method. The link is under my photo. Best, G

@Greenberg I'm new here as far as posting myself but I've been reading your posts for 6-7 months now. I really appreciate your insight and the time you've put into helping others. Is the info at your link still current? Thnx

 

[outrider567]

Hey friends! Im just looking to carefully compile all of the materials needed for my peaceful exit, but even after reading the thread+ peaceful pill im still at unease with certain factors. Mainly the purchase and suitability of the gas regulator and tubing.

Attached below i shared my "shopping list", if anyone in the know would be able to confirm if i have the right things id be eternally greatful.
Suggestions if those aren't right are also very much welcome. (Based in uk).

I also attached two different sizes of oven bags, before i make them into exit bags.
Im doubtful as to which one will be better. The first smaller one fix perfectly snug on my head ( if a little too tight, when i breathe in it sticks to my nostrils without airflow) and the second is larger, but but theres quite a bit to crumble out the air, before i pull it onto my head, and quite a few leftover after.

The first crumbles and leaves marks on it, while the second is more like actual plastic that leaves no marks after being handled. Which is more suitable to use?


If anyone greenlights my shopping card i will buy it and probably do a follow up with questions/feedback.

Please be kind enough to aid me onto this last journey of mine. Thank you!

Ok, I tested out the Nitrogen somewhat---I filled up the exit bag with Nitrogen, holding the bottom of the bag with my hands, then shut off the Nitrogen--Then I opened the bag and took a couple of breaths, the Oximeter on my finger quickly showed my oxygen number dropped from 98 to 90--So it works--Of course, I know the correct way and procedure is, to get rid of the Oxygen in your lungs first, by taking many deep breaths, expelling the Oxygen from your lungs, and then breathe in the flowing Nitrogen---I'll try that next time and post about it--The tank has about 1000 liters of Nitrogen, so I can practice as much as I want and still possess a lethal amount in the tank--I'm quite grateful to all on this thread, especially Greenberg

 

[Imperia]

Does anyone know whether the AlBee Fly Helium tanks are pure helium or are they diluted with oxygen? They are from the AirLiquide brand.
Many thanks!

 

[georgecostanza]

Ok, I tested out the Nitrogen somewhat---I filled up the exit bag with Nitrogen, holding the bottom of the bag with my hands, then shut off the Nitrogen--Then I opened the bag and took a couple of breaths, the Oximeter on my finger quickly showed my oxygen number dropped from 98 to 90--So it works--Of course, I know the correct way and procedure is, to get rid of the Oxygen in your lungs first, by taking many deep breaths, expelling the Oxygen from your lungs, and then breathe in the flowing Nitrogen---I'll try that next time and post about it--The tank has about 1000 liters of Nitrogen, so I can practice as much as I want and still possess a lethal amount in the tank--I'm quite grateful to all on this thread, especially Greenberg

I'd try with mask manually held on face (such that it falls off upon fainting) to see how it feels and how long it takes. technically this part is the only I'll experience when actually doing it. (not recommending this, of course!)

 

[outrider567]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Ok, I did one more practice run with the Nitrogen/Exit Bag----This time, while the bag was filling(took about 30 seconds)up with Nitrogen, I took many deep breaths to get the oxygen out of my lungs, heart rate jumped to 100--I then took the plastic bag and breathed in a few deep breaths of Nitrogen(still flowing from the plastic tube),and stopped--At first my Oxygen number was still at 98, but then just 5 to10 seconds later it dropped to 78! amazing how fast it dropped-- So, this is pure Nitrogen alright---Don't need any more practice runs--

 

[outrider567]

This was the oximeter after 40 seconds today. Oxygen sats down to 65 from "usual range" of 95-99%. My vision was starting to grow dim at that point so pulled out as still only in "exploration" phase. Still no discomfort (except a slight worry that I may go too far!)

That being said, if I accidentally ctb whilst doing this then everything is sorted (will, note, useful information document with passwords to phone/comp etc) so if I disappear for a few days I may have taken the testing too far!

View attachment 31387

Yeah my oxygen dropped from 98 to 78 after about 10 seconds or so of breathing in the Nitrogen(delayed by 10 seconds) while it was still flowing in the bag

I believe empty canisters are okay, but filled canisters are not and would require special permissions.

No, filled Nitrogen cannisters are sent to anyone, not just empty ones--JJ's Technics and WeldFabulous are two examples that will send you filled Nitrogen tanks

 

[sunny/omori]

Having researched extensively my only concern about the exit bag method is based on reports from two people who, between them, observed scores of people die using it.

The quote below is from this link (about 3/4 of the way through): https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/suicide-plan/transcript/

>>TED GOODWIN: About half the people have the tremor in their arms. So their arms come up. And that's just muscle reaction. I'm going to make sure your arms don't tear a hole in that bag. I'm going to hold your arms down.<<

And IIRC George Exoo in Jon Ronson's _Reverend Death_ said about 20% of unconscious people have some kind of involuntary arm movement.

Presuming Ted Goodwin told the undercover Georgia LEO the truth, ISTM needing to hold down the arms of 50% of dying people is a very troubling consideration.

Any thoughts appreciated - TIA.

This is a HUGE detail. I guess they keep it secret because it mean they are actively participating in someone's death and could face legal prosecution.

Also It means PPH method as described is flawed. Doesnt mention risk of convulsion or twitching of any kind. With no hand constraint this method has a high chance of going wrong.

This was my first option but I aborted because Fromgermqny warnings. I am glad I did.

 

[outrider567]

When it comes to Nitrogen and other gases, I assume you can't have them shipped because it's dangerous. If I were to purchase a tank online, would I have to head over to one of these gas suppliers (like a welding supplier) and have them fill it up? And if so, do I have to pay for the nitrogen or is it free depending on the supplier of the tank? I ask because I don't have a car currently and would have to take an uber or manage to get it into my giant backpack. I'm trying to finalize all the details before I make the purchases and just need the last bits of info. Thanks!

No, Filled Nitrogen Tanks are shipped to anyone by JJ's Technics and WeldFabulous

Can anyone please help with the process of purchasing the gas? I'm in the states and have never been in a welding store or any industrial gas store. My concern is I will stick out like a sore thumb going in there given I have no knowledge of these gases other than from wanting to use the eb and also since i am in my late 20s and look young.

WeldFabulous will send you a filled Nitrogen Tank

 

[outrider567]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Ok, I did one more practice run--This time I took 5 to 6 deep breaths, holding the bag around my neck after it got full of Nitrogen, got somewhat dizzy, the Oxygen number plunged from 99 to 54! This stuff really works

 

[BeBraveBrother]

Ok, I did one more practice run--This time I took 5 to 6 deep breaths, holding the bag around my neck after it got full of Nitrogen, got somewhat dizzy, the Oxygen number plunged from 99 to 54! This stuff really works

Yes, there are medical reports about the fact that the exit bag/inert gas CAN / MAY work. However some stated, that during the process people might unconciously pull the bag away after passed out and regain conciousness (presumingly with severe neurological damages). The question is, how I can secure my hands from not trying to pull off my head... Some say they'd secure their hands with ropes or similar stuff. But during the process I only do have a small amount of time (need to hold the breath) and how can I secure my hands from not finding a way out of the ropes (or whatever means I use)?

I have been waiting for more than a year after I got to know the method. I feel like it could be time to go soon.

 

[sunny/omori]

Yes, there are medical reports about the fact that the exit bag/inert gas CAN / MAY work. However some stated, that during the process people might unconciously pull the bag away after passed out and regain conciousness (presumingly with severe neurological damages). The question is, how I can secure my hands from not trying to pull off my head... Some say they'd secure their hands with ropes or similar stuff. But during the process I only do have a small amount of time (need to hold the breath) and how can I secure my hands from not finding a way out of the ropes (or whatever means I use)?

I have been waiting for more than a year after I got to know the method. I feel like it could be time to go soon.

I dont think you can remove the bag if you are unconscious. I think what really happens people wake up by co2 response because of a bag too tight or flow too low. Probably they just dont remember the first minutes of waking up and removing the bag for theyself.

This is not a simple method as may seems. If it is not well assambled the O2 can get in, or the co2 cant get out. Some people dont use elastic lace or band and just seal the bag around they neck. Even in this thread some guy posted a tied bag. Others dont even use a bag. All that attemps are doomed to fail, maybe with some rare exceptions just by luck.

What I am very certain It is you will likely have a convulsion. That means there is a risk of hurting the bag with your arms or falling out the chair. I dont know why some months ago in this thread was a debate about if that was a real thing. Fromgermany was right. Just look to this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1368754/. "In the few experiments in which nitrogen was breathed for 17–20 sec unconsciousness supervened and was accompanied on most occasions by a generalized convulsion".

That is why not laying down and hand and body constraint is so important. The former is adressed in the PPH, but nothing about the latter. Convulsion arent even mentioned, when is a very common fact and pose a high risk of failure. I dont have practice in knots but it have not to be a very difficult one. If you size you wont untied it. Respect of the flow, i would go for 20 lit/min minimun like Final Exit recommend.

This little details make me stop my plan with inert gas and research about N, but when the shortage i am thinking about it again.

 

[suicide_implant]

Hi guys, I started planning and picking items for my setup (I will be using Argon). But I have a serious concern (maybe REALLY dumb one), won't the bag explode after some time as it is still being inflated by gas? Or please could somebody tell me if Non-Rebreather mask's reservoir bag will explode? I am really paranoid about the whole thing. Thanks

 

[sunny/omori]

Hi guys, I started planning and picking items for my setup (I will be using Argon). But I have a serious concern (maybe REALLY dumb one), won't the bag explode after some time as it is still being inflated by gas? Or please could somebody tell me if Non-Rebreather mask's reservoir bag will explode? I am really paranoid about the whole thing. Thanks

It will depend of the bag. Try to get the thickest you can and make a simulation for 40 minutes. Put the bag in a neck like object and shake the bag a bit, etc.

Before bjyind anything you would want to get everything assembles right and this is the method for you. Consider N if you can get it somehow because is a more reliable method.

 

[Deathinminutes]

Hi guys, I started planning and picking items for my setup (I will be using Argon). But I have a serious concern (maybe REALLY dumb one), won't the bag explode after some time as it is still being inflated by gas? Or please could somebody tell me if Non-Rebreather mask's reservoir bag will explode? I am really paranoid about the whole thing. Thanks

Hi @suicide_implant Have you read the entire megathread that @TiredHorse started? If you read enough on this site you're able to notice who is sure of what they're saying vs. people that certainly are not! Make theoretical mistakes before you start buying equipment. Check out @Greenberg too. He has a blog that gives a ton of credible & documented info. Tell us more about your set up.

 

[laps]

Hi guys. I am thinking of buying this disposable helium tank:
https://www.party-factory.com/ballongas-helium-fuer-bis-zu-50-luftballons-0-4m3-einwegflasche

Do you guys know what kind of connection is on such disposable helium tanks sold in Europe? I need a flow regulator for it. Perhaps you know where I could get one? Perhaps I need some adapter to connect tank with the regulator.

For regulator I was looking at:
https://www.vector-welding.fr/boutique/accessoires-de-soudure/accessoires-varies/detendeur-argon-co²/

or this one:
https://www.vector-welding.fr/bouti...essoires-varies/detendeur-argon-co²-218-1-14m

Connector looks similar but I do not think it is the same.

 

[sunny/omori]

I wouldnt bother with helium. It is mixed with oxygen nowadays because it is cheaper and ctb reasons. Some seller will says is pure, but you would never be sure it is 100% pure. Better go with nitrogen or argon.

 

[NSA]

Hi guys. I am thinking of buying this disposable helium tank:
https://www.party-factory.com/ballongas-helium-fuer-bis-zu-50-luftballons-0-4m3-einwegflasche

Do you guys know what kind of connection is on such disposable helium tanks sold in Europe? I need a flow regulator for it. Perhaps you know where I could get one? Perhaps I need some adapter to connect tank with the regulator.

For regulator I was looking at:
https://www.vector-welding.fr/boutique/accessoires-de-soudure/accessoires-varies/detendeur-argon-co²/

or this one:
https://www.vector-welding.fr/boutique/accessoires-de-soudure/accessoires-varies/detendeur-argon-co²-218-1-14m

Connector looks similar but I do not think it is the same.

I wouldn't trust anything that says party supply on it. Too likely to be diluted for child safety reasons. Best to go with welding suppliers. their gasses must be pure for industrial use, so more trustworthy.

I actually have one of those kind of tanks, from before I learned about the dilution problem. I won't be using it for ctb.

 

[Schmootz]

Hi Greenburg,

I'm not ready to CTB just yet, but I have been researching and collecting equipment for some time now to be prepared if and when that time comes.

I read your Blog with interest and in April 2021 you seemed to be convinced that the EEBD Hood is superior to the Exit Bag. I wonder if you still feel that way.

I have a hood similar to the EEBD that I have been planning to use but am having second thoughts after reading a detailed description of the Exit Bag procedure.

The procedure I read calls for the Exit Bag to be secured around the forehead. Then, after squeezing all the air out of the bag, it is allowed to refill with the chosen inert gas. This means that the bag is filled with the inert gas and very little O2 or CO2 remains. After filling, the bag is then lowered over the face and secured around the neck. When you take your first deep breath after lowering the bag it is nearly 100% gas and you've made a good start toward CTBing.

With the EEBD hood I see no way of purging the O2 and CO2 before putting it over your head. This would seem to increase the time before you're breathing pure inert gas as the undesirable gasses would need to be expelled. Depending on flowrate, I suspect that the purge time could be several minutes. This would not be nearly as quick as the Exit Bag method.

There is something to be said for the EEBD hood in terms of preventing a disruption of the gas flow due to interference from spasmodic flailing of the hands, but there are other ways of securing the hands.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or methods you may have heard of to make the EEBD hood as efficient as the Exit Bag.

 

[Greenberg]

I am in agreement with @noone2. Most helium is diluted with another gas, such as oxygen. If you do choose to go with the exit bag method, nitrogen or oxygen are best.

Best, G

Hi Greenburg,

I'm not ready to CTB just yet, but I have been researching and collecting equipment for some time now to be prepared if and when that time comes.

I read your Blog with interest and in April 2021 you seemed to be convinced that the EEBD Hood is superior to the Exit Bag. I wonder if you still feel that way.

I have a hood similar to the EEBD that I have been planning to use but am having second thoughts after reading a detailed description of the Exit Bag procedure.

The procedure I read calls for the Exit Bag to be secured around the forehead. Then, after squeezing all the air out of the bag, it is allowed to refill with the chosen inert gas. This means that the bag is filled with the inert gas and very little O2 or CO2 remains. After filling, the bag is then lowered over the face and secured around the neck. When you take your first deep breath after lowering the bag it is nearly 100% gas and you've made a good start toward CTBing.

With the EEBD hood I see no way of purging the O2 and CO2 before putting it over your head. This would seem to increase the time before you're breathing pure inert gas as the undesirable gasses would need to be expelled. Depending on flowrate, I suspect that the purge time could be several minutes. This would not be nearly as quick as the Exit Bag method.

There is something to be said for the EEBD hood in terms of preventing a disruption of the gas flow due to interference from spasmodic flailing of the hands, but there are other ways of securing the hands.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or methods you may have heard of to make the EEBD hood as efficient as the Exit Bag.

Thank you for your kind feedback.

You can do a similar thing with an EEBD hood: stand it upright on a flat surface fill it with nitrogen, exhale, and then don the hood.

You will get the same level of expediency as with a bag. Moreover, all EEBDs have one-way valves to exhaust your expired gases. The way I see it, I is a much more elegant process than with a standard bag.

Best, G

 

[laps]

The one I linked in my previous post states that supposedly it is 99,996% pure.

In terms of other gases I think besides helium, nitrogen is probably best option, because it is slightly lighter than air as opposed to argon, which is heavier and I presume it would have a tendency to escape the bag through gaps between your head and the bag.

If you do choose to go with the exit bag method, nitrogen or oxygen are best.

Obviously oxygen or CO2 will not work, since it is the actual problem we are trying to overcome here.

 

[Schmootz]

I am in agreement with @noone2. Most helium is diluted with another gas, such as oxygen. If you do choose to go with the exit bag method, nitrogen or oxygen are best.

Best, G

Thank you for your kind feedback.

You can do a similar thing with an EEBD hood: stand it upright on a flat surface fill it with nitrogen, exhale, and then don the hood.

You will get the same level of expediency as with a bag. Moreover, all EEBDs have one-way valves to exhaust your expired gases. The way I see it, I is a much more elegant process than with a standard bag.

Best, G

Setting the hood aside with the inert gas flowing into it would probably work, but it would take three times longer and use three times more inert gas than the Exit Bag.

Chasing the oxygen out of the hood is a process known as Dilution Purging. If you want to reduce the oxygen content of the air in the hood from its natural 21% to, say, 1% you would need a volume of inert gas equal to three times the volume of the hood (1). If the hood is 1cuft in volume then that's 3cuft of inert gas. At a flow rate of 15LPM (.5cuft/min) that would take about 6 minutes and subtract from the total gas available for the procedure. Filling the Exit Bag would probably take about 2 minutes and use just 1cuft of inert gas.

1. https://missrifka.com/calculation/i....&text=Let say, you want to,to 1%-mole oxygen

There is also the problem of moving the hood from the flat surface used for purging to your head. That movement is nearly guaranteed to produce air currents around the hood bottom opening which would likely cause mixing with ambient air and dilution of the inert gas inside the hood. With the Exit Bag already in place on your head there is little opportunity for mixing so you're more likely to get nearly 100% inert gas on your first breath.

I'm fairly certain the hood would work, but the Exit Bag seems more efficient and faster with less time for SI to kick in.