Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[RottenApple17]

is there any video tutorial on how to do this method?
On this video (min 01:31) they show the intro of a tutorial from Exit, is that video available anywhere?

 

[kudaphillips]

is there any video tutorial on how to do this method?
On this video (min 01:31) they show the intro of a tutorial from Exit, is that video available anywhere?

There definitely are a few good ones floating around on this thread . I don't have the links but I'm sure other members do , also you probably could find on search bar

 

[Allla]

That doesn't look like it I'll work well because the bag or hood needs to be secure around the neck .
Try a bungy chord wrapped around the chair

Thank you for your answer, but I have scoliosis, curve cervical department and I'm afraid that will be as it was written here- my nose touch the bag

 

[Rinmo]

Is there any permanent damage/effect if I fail?

 

[reno883]

i would like to ask you , It is enough if you buy N² 2.8 99.8% or is N² 5.0 99.99% better ?
i did a test without nitrogen with the Exit Bag today and 2 days ago, i was able to last for 1 minute, didn't have any major problems with heat and the feeling of suffocation, although i have serious problems with my respiratory tract, nose and lungs (chronic)

i'm sorry if my English isn't good because I use a translator
it is enough to just breathe in and out deeply through your mouth without breathing through your nose ?

 

[reno883]

It is enough if you have a silicone hose on the pressure reducer with cable ties attached or must it absolutely a hose clamp be ?

 

[kudaphillips]

Is there any permanent damage/effect if I fail?

Depends on how you fail. If you do the procedure correctly and something happens while you are unconscious , bag comes off/ gas stops/ regulator leaks / you can certainly be damaged severely .
The Ionger you are without oxygen to your brain the more damage is done

It is enough if you have a silicone hose on the pressure reducer with cable ties attached or must it absolutely a hose clamp be ?

If I understand correctly , your question is , are hose clamps absolutely necessary .
Depends on your rig . To be certain you don't need hose clamps , check for leaks with a soapy water spray around the connection , threads . Gd bubble wil form if it's leaking .
For me, my oxygen tubing fits so tightly and snuggly on the barb , I don't need hose clamps .
But for my eebd rig, hose clamps are more necessary because the tubing isn't stretchy .

 

[Rinmo]

At first what I feared was not enough gas, since I'll be using EEBD, and the smallest tank available @ 99.999% is 6.7 liters at 150 bar I think. (The description says WP150).
But after more research, apparently it's more than enough.

How hard is it to put on EEBD mask properly? I don't have the money to buy oxygen meter.
And is tying yourself really necessary?

 

[kudaphillips]

At first what I feared was not enough gas, since I'll be using EEBD, and the smallest tank available @ 99.999% is 6.7 liters at 150 bar I think. (The description says WP150).
But after more research, apparently it's more than enough.

How hard is it to put on EEBD mask properly? I don't have the money to buy oxygen meter.
And is tying yourself really necessary?

If money is an issue , I'd consider exit bag, and get an oxygen tester .

Eend is a hood, not a mask . It's certainly easy to put on. There are questions of functionality around the co2 purge valve functioning properly . ( I can attest to this , one doesn't work properly ).

Tying yourself many would say is not necessary , but I personally believe it is . Strapping yourself with a bunjee so tht you are positioned upright in your chair and secure , can only help. Could you succeed with no straps and tie downs ? Of course ,.
I personally want to eliminate all vectors of failur me, especially given how horribly wrong my life has gone , I certainly don't trust some BS hoening and ruining my attempt. It's not a big deal , just buy a bunjee cord and tie it around the chair and climb under it when you're ready to attempt .
Also, I have a bunjee wrapped under the chair going over my legs , with some zip ties for my hands . There's plenty of time once you pull the bag down to zip tie your hands , and if you need to get out it's easy since it's a stretchy bunjee, but won't be easy if you're unconscious , which is the goal

 

[peacefuldeath2017]

I've acquired all the tools I need. Just have a question about using argon as the gas. Will there be any issues using that since it's heavier than air or will the bag contain the argon?

 

[kudaphillips]

I've acquired all the tools I need. Just have a question about using argon as the gas. Will there be any issues using that since it's heavier than air or will the bag contain the argon?

I think argon suffices just fine , but it's heavier weight needs to at least be addressed, so that you can adjust flow rate if necessary . For example , if you are using a nitrogen regulator but running argon , you'll need to increase ththe flow . The exact conversion can be found in this thread but just a rough idea is ... 15 lpm argon is like 17 lpm nitrogen .

To be absolutely sure your setup is meeting the requirements in lack of oxygen , you can buy a dummy head , and oxygen malice and run your setup to make sure the environment in the bag is devoid of oxygen

 

[peacefuldeath2017]

I think argon suffices just fine , but it's heavier weight needs to at least be addressed, so that you can adjust flow rate if necessary . For example , if you are using a nitrogen regulator but running argon , you'll need to increase ththe flow . The exact conversion can be found in this thread but just a rough idea is ... 15 lpm argon is like 17 lpm nitrogen .

To be absolutely sure your setup is meeting the requirements in lack of oxygen , you can buy a dummy head , and oxygen malice and run your setup to make sure the environment in the bag is devoid of oxygen

I'm using an argon regulator

 

[christinadler]

What do you think about using Helium in a car instead of a bag?
Actually you can prevent the leaking of gas from the car by fixing a large piece of nylon on the ceiling and the doors. ( Such large nylon covers are used by painters to prevent drops on the floor while painting walls. ) Opinion?

 

[kudaphillips]

What do you think about using Helium in a car instead of a bag?
Actually you can prevent the leaking of gas from the car by fixing a large piece of nylon on the ceiling and the doors. ( Such large nylon covers are used by painters to prevent drops on the floor while painting walls. ) Opinion?

This is discussed a few times in the thread . It's just not tried and true , theoretically it could work with a large tank, but the bag technique is much more effective , and the tried and true .
People ask a million questions wnd doubt the exit bag method even when it's actually used by exit organizations and endorsed, I can't imagine going for a non accepted method .
I think doing the exit bag in the car would be great idea tho

 

[christinadler]

Does this method cause seizures or other ugly body movements after losing consciousness?

 

[agilexona]

I have a question if i have helium tank how much flow do i need if i use argon regulator and if i connect two disposable helium tank with one tank able to provide 50 balloons and the other is 30 balloons connect it to a t piece then a regulator would it work?

Helium tank- pipe/hose- t piece- then a argon regulator would it work?

Im trying the most cheapest option if possible since my money starting to dried out

I found a setup on hackables where they use t piece and two tank for 100 ballons but no regulator but turn out its becoming so loud i dont think i can handle the hose close to my ear without a regulator but i cant found helium regulator in my country so the only option is using argon, im not a math guys so idk how to convert the amount i need for helium

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

How do you test your hydrogen setup for leaks?

 

[exitingtothevoid]

Does this method cause seizures or other ugly body movements after losing consciousness?

I've read two medical papers based on observations of helium suicides, and what they describe is more like muscles slowly contracting and relaxing than epileptic seizures. And that only happened with some people, the others didn't move after losing consciousness.

 

[agilexona]

I was quicker. According to Dignitas it can take up to 50 seconds to pass out in Nitrogen environment. I also didn't take deep breaths. Just wanted to see how quickly my saturation drops. And it did drop by at least 5% per second once I started breathing, it was kind of shocking how quick this was. I doubt I would last the 50 seconds, if I started breathing deeply from the start I think I might be out in 15.

So about being knocked out very quickly, you're right. But it's either not as quick as advertised, or maybe it's my fault, or both. With the amount of nitrogen I don't plan any more testing.

Hey does releasing gas at 15l/m sounds loud?
I was expecting hissing sound but im not sure how much 15l/m supposed to sound

Omg someone went to justanswer.com for help in CTB.

@chester i'm in the same boat as you.
I'm stuck between weather or not the flow meter is higher or lower than the correct reading
and if so by what factor.

Right now iv settled on the idea that I should multiply my intended usage by 1.2

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

You can use an argon regulator (with flowmeter) on a nitrogen cylinder if the cylinder connection for nitrogen in your region is the same as an argon cylinder connection. ... You seem like you've done a lot of research. Do you know if a US (CGA580 flowmeter connection [like this one]) works...

sanctioned-suicide.net

However I still dont know who is right and who is wrong,
Iv seen the answer of a minus 80% reduction thrown around before
using the logic that Air is basically nitrogen,
and that Argon is 18% heavier than than air
and that Air is 2% heavier than nitrogen
Therefore argon is 20% heavier than Nitrogen

But if you think about it for a second.
weather or not Nitrogen is 20% or 30% lighter than Argon.
Pushing a lighter gas through a flow meter calibrated for a heavier gas
would mean that you would need a more gas to push the ball on the flowmeter.
Which would be that if the reading is 10LPM you are in actual fact using 20/30% more nitrogen
to get the same reading.

All i know for certain is the results of the two tests I ran
and until i see otherwise, i can only assume that everything
else is just some one on the internet giving their opinion

I really don't know either.
do let me know if your research shows up anything else.
I also found these two sources.

It appears someone asked this question on homebrewtalk

Using an argon flowmeter for nitrogen tank

I have a nitrogen cylinder and an oxygen regulator and argon flow-meter. I am wondering whether I will get an accurate reading of flow of gas per minute? Will the meter show an amount that is less or more than actual flow?

www.homebrewtalk.com

one of the comments includes a dead link but the comment states:

"
argon is a considerably heavier gas than nitrogen. I would think that the indicator is calibrated for the "thicker" gas. using nitrogen would indicate low IMHO.

looks like you would need to convert it
"

brooksinstrument.com talks about

Gas Correction Factors

and shows you how to perform conversions if your running Argon
out of an Air.Oxygen regulator. and includes this formula.

View attachment 146923

However they don't mention an argon regulator on a nitrogen tank

Gas Correction Factors | Brooks Instrument

Enjoy access to all of Brooks Instrument's sizing tools, including variable area sizing engines, mass flow sizing engines and gas correction factors.

www.brooksinstrument.com

Could you help me convert how much helium i need to push out using argon regulator?

 

[Shunya]

is there any video tutorial on how to do this method?
On this video (min 01:31) they show the intro of a tutorial from Exit, is that video available anywhere?

Their whole setup is made to be so simple. Can someone make a list of everything he used? I have the nitrogen and an Eebd hood but their regulator seems so small and compact as well as that clear tubing. What are those?

In some guides I've seen that a reclining chair and fasteners to keep one in place are in the supply list but the lady in the clip will simply do it on her sofa which seems so nice and easy.

I'd like to do it in my bed. Or just sitting down on the floor against a wall. Is that not possible?
Is a reclining chair absolutely necessary? Wouldn't know how to get it in my room discreetly.

 

[reno883]

What advantages would it have if you set the flow rate to 20 lpm ?

 

[Marco77]

Is it true that the helium cylinder must be 600 litres?

 

[exitingtothevoid]

Is it true that the helium cylinder must be 600 litres?

The flow rate needs to be at least 15lpm to purge exhaled air and co2 out of the bag, so that gives a maximum of 40 minutes of helium from a 600l cylinder. 40 minutes is the usual recommendation for the minimum amount of gas to try to CTB with.

When Dignitas tried using helium with a oxygen mask, one person took just over 40 minutes to die. That person probably had a large air leak from the oxygen mask not fitting right, because the other three took less than 10 minutes. I think that case is the reason for both the recommendation to not use oxygen masks and to have a minimum of 40 minutes of gas. Can it be done with less gas or a oxygen mask, possibly, but I wouldn't attempt it because I need it to be definitely.

What advantages would it have if you set the flow rate to 20 lpm ?

I'm not sure if there would be an advantage to 20lpm for helium or nitrogen. There is some debate in the early parts of this thread about 15lpm versus 20lpm, but that seemed to settle on 15lpm works fine.

Argon is heavier than air so it's possible that a higher flow rate is necessary to keep the bag fully inflated. IIRC one person in this thread reported that their exit bag never fully inflated when they attempted with argon. Argon is less commonly used so it is hard to say.

 

[kudaphillips]

Their whole setup is made to be so simple. Can someone make a list of everything he used? I have the nitrogen and an Eebd hood but their regulator seems so small and compact as well as that clear tubing. What are those?

In some guides I've seen that a reclining chair and fasteners to keep one in place are in the supply list but the lady in the clip will simply do it on her sofa which seems so nice and easy.

I'd like to do it in my bed. Or just sitting down on the floor against a wall. Is that not possible?
Is a reclining chair absolutely necessary? Wouldn't know how to get it in my room discreetly.

It's just a matter of risk mitigation . You could prob break all the rules and possibly be successful , could lay face down no straps and it could work . The idea is to limit the chance of failure as much as possible .
Strapping hands eliminates chance you rip the bag off while in a haze, or knock over the gas or hit the reg or something . Tht chance is low but not zero .
Positioning yourself so that you are upright and comfortable and not going to jostle around is important for the same regard .
You could do it sitting against a wall but what happens when you fall over when unconscious ? You don't want to risk the bag coming off or pulling the tubing off the regulator etc ..
strapping everything so it's secure including yourself is the best route to go .

 

[Shunya]

It's just a matter of risk mitigation . You could prob break all the rules and possibly be successful , could lay face down no straps and it could work . The idea is to limit the chance of failure as much as possible .
Strapping hands eliminates chance you rip the bag off while in a haze, or knock over the gas or hit the reg or something . Tht chance is low but not zero .
Positioning yourself so that you are upright and comfortable and not going to jostle around is important for the same regard .
You could do it sitting against a wall but what happens when you fall over when unconscious ? You don't want to risk the bag coming off or pulling the tubing off the regulator etc ..
strapping everything so it's secure including yourself is the best route to go .

Thanks, Kuda. I can find straps and I suppose I'll just have to find a chair to keep me in place. What's your setup like?

Do you also know the regulator and tubing that was used in that video?

 

[kudaphillips]

Thanks, Kuda. I can find straps and I suppose I'll just have to find a chair to keep me in place. What's your setup like?

Do you also know the regulator and tubing that was used in that video?

Wow I had never seen this video . It brings up one interesting thing to me . Dr nitchke in the video says to hold Your breath for a minute before taking your big inhale of nitrogen and you pass out quicker/ immediately . I had offered this as a suggestion earlier in the thread and got chastised , seems dr nitchkee approves .

Yes the regulator he suggests ( exit int) is a click style flow meter nitrogen regulator from max dog brewing. I bought one of these nd it was just an oxygen click style generic way overpriced . I believe max dog is not around anymore , but a plethora of regulators will suffice . MiG tig argon welding / nitrogen / oxygen medical all good but you just need a flow meter that goes 15 lpm of higher The tubing used is just any oxygen tubing , or cannula tubing

Also another note about the video . I really think it would be a bad idea to do it around your pets or cats . They're sharp claws I feel would be a risk to puncture the bag, whether they trying to save you instinctively or just see a moving bag and want to play with it as cats do especialy mine. I will be in different room from my cats

I actually have quite a few setups . All the firearms , exit bag , scuba , and eebd.
At this time I'm most comfortable with exit bag, hooked up to double nitrogen 99.9% tested tanks / double regs. My chair is not a recliner but an are couch like chair , I have half inch thick bungee wrapped are the back and bottom of chair tht I can slip into . Also have zip ties attached to the bungee for my hands.

 

[Allla]

The first fitting)))
I have a great holiday - swiss Dignitas sent e-mail with reduction of the membership fees yesterday. It's wonder. They have Wolfgang Hopff Fund for persons who live under modest economic circumstances (like me in Russia)) I was so happy, it's so safely, but I get a little pain today and decided try Exit bag.)
Once I accidentally found the page of Philip Nitschke (he is my idol) in Telegram and wrote him, he deleted my message)
I dream of nembutal with Dignitas, but I'm afraid I have not such a lot of time (doctors say I have only 2 months for life)

 

[SomewhereAlongThe]

Is it true that the helium cylinder must be 600 litres?

The flow rate needs to be at least 15lpm to purge exhaled air and co2 out of the bag, so that gives a maximum of 40 minutes of helium from a 600l cylinder. 40 minutes is the usual recommendation for the minimum amount of gas to try to CTB with.

When Dignitas tried using helium with a oxygen mask, one person took just over 40 minutes to die. That person probably had a large air leak from the oxygen mask not fitting right, because the other three took less than 10 minutes. I think that case is the reason for both the recommendation to not use oxygen masks and to have a minimum of 40 minutes of gas. Can it be done with less gas or a oxygen mask, possibly, but I wouldn't attempt it because I need it to be definitely.


I'm not sure if there would be an advantage to 20lpm for helium or nitrogen. There is some debate in the early parts of this thread about 15lpm versus 20lpm, but that seemed to settle on 15lpm works fine.

Argon is heavier than air so it's possible that a higher flow rate is necessary to keep the bag fully inflated. IIRC one person in this thread reported that their exit bag never fully inflated when they attempted with argon. Argon is less commonly used so it is hard to say.

I have a question, if you don't mind, how do you check for leaks?

 

[exitingtothevoid]

I have a question, if you don't mind, how do you check for leaks?

Search on youtube for "welding cylinder leak test". TLDW, spray soapy water on the connections and look for bubbles.

 

[grievingcarcass]

is buying the supplies all on ebay risky? i dont want to be contacted by the police or my family finding out lol. im buying a cylinder of nitrogen and a regulator along with supplies for an exit bag.