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GoingHome11:11

GoingHome11:11

Member
Nov 5, 2023
20
My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;
  • 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
  • 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)
Which one i need to buy?
Hi, I was looking at this same regulator, but the listing says that they only sell to medical professionals or brew masters. Are you either of those? If not, how are you going to order it? You can PM me the answer if you're not comfortable answering it publicly.
 
I

indocanda

Indian Canadian
Jul 24, 2023
43
Hi, I was looking at this same regulator, but the listing says that they only sell to medical professionals or brew masters. Are you either of those? If not, how are you going to order it? You can PM me the answer if you're not comfortable answering it publicly.
I haven't checked that they are only selling to professionals. 😒
 
CHOSEVIOLENCE

CHOSEVIOLENCE

♱ No more counting dollars we'll be counting stars
Jul 24, 2024
32
Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well. I found this one, it comes with the regulator and I was wondering if this is a good choice or not. With shipping it's nearly $400, but I am very desperate...
 

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CHOSEVIOLENCE

CHOSEVIOLENCE

♱ No more counting dollars we'll be counting stars
Jul 24, 2024
32
Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well. I found this one, it comes with the regulator and I was wondering if this is a good choice or not. With shipping it's nearly $400, but I am very desperate...
NEVERMIND IT ISN'T
 
E

emma99

Student
Jul 31, 2024
193
What are your views on th
I think there was a bit of confusion before, from previous posts I read, about the conversion rate for using nitrogen with an argon flowmeter. But it seemed eventually people settled on the conversion rate of 1.19. You multiply the argon regulator litres per minute(LPM) reading by 1.19 to give the actual nitrogen flowrate.
So:
- 12.5LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~15litres LPM nitrogen flow
- 15LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 18LPM nitrogen flow
- 20 LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 24 LPM nitrogen flow

Or do the opposite, and multiply the nitrogen flowrate you want by 0.84, to give the argon regulator rate you need to set.
E.g. -15(LPM nitrogen flowrate you want) * 0.84 = ~12.5 (argon LPM regulator setting).
- 25(LPM nitrogen flowrate you want) * 0.84 = ~ 21(argon LPM regulator setting).
Etc.

Here's the conversion chart people previously used.
View attachment 131937

They give an example, using helium with an argon flowmeter. The website used standard cubic feet per hour (SCFH). It's the same conversion for litres per minute (LPM).
Their final result should say 'Actual Helium Flow', not 'Actual Argon Flow'. That was a mistake on their part:

View attachment 131927

If you're still worried about it, then you may be more comfortable using a nitrogen regulator with nitrogen. You have 3 options:
1)Nitrogen regulator with floating ball flowmeter(Litres per minute (LPM) or Standard cubic feet per hour (SCFH), which can be converted to LPM:

View attachment 131930

2)Nitrogen regulator with litres per minute gauge:
View attachment 131931

3)Nitrogen click-style regulator:
View attachment 131933

Your table states that Argon Gas has a correction factor of 1.37,
However I have seen it mentioned that the correction factor is 1.38

Iv also found these two charts.

In my own test. I ran 100bar of 200~Liters of Nitrogen on an argon gas flow regulator set at 10LPM
During my test the ball went up to 11LPM and halfway through my test I readjusted this tback down to 10LPM

The tank took 14 minutes to empty which would mean that the flow had been running at 14.3LPM

This means I would have to use a conversion rate of 1.4 and not 1.19

EDIT:
I just ran another test on a 140Bar tank.
After reading the conversion chart I set the regulator to 9
which should equate to 7.5LPM of Nitrogen.

Given that it took the tank 18minutes to deplete
it would mean that my regulator was running at a rate of 15.5LPM.
 
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B

BrocolliSandwich

New Member
Jul 31, 2024
3
Hi. I cannot seem to find information on whether a commercial grade balloon tank (99% helium) with the balloon nozzle could be used without a regulator. Does anyone know?
If not, where I can I pick up a regular in Canada (in Greater Vancouver) right away?
 
I

indocanda

Indian Canadian
Jul 24, 2023
43
I found Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA580 0-25L on alibaba
Similar to as in following picture
IMG 2312
My question is "can i buy from there or are they low grade or maybe not calibrated properly?
As they a so much cheap then other listed on another sites
 
C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
What are your views on th


Your table states that Argon Gas has a correction factor of 1.37,
However I have seen it mentioned that the correction factor is 1.38

Iv also found these two charts.

In my own test. I ran 100bar of 200~Liters of Nitrogen on an argon gas flow regulator set at 10LPM
During my test the ball went up to 11LPM and halfway through my test I readjusted this tback down to 10LPM

The tank took 14 minutes to empty which would mean that the flow had been running at 14.3LPM

This means I would have to use a conversion rate of 1.4 and not 1.19

EDIT:
I just ran another test on a 140Bar tank.
After reading the conversion chart I set the regulator to 9
which should equate to 7.5LPM of Nitrogen.

Given that it took the tank 18minutes to deplete
it would mean that my regulator was running at a rate of 15.5LPM.

The more I read about argon-nitrogen conversions on this forum, the more confused I am. I found this page, it might have been posted before: https://www.justanswer.com/home-improvement/odmlx-inert-gas-experts-argon-flowmeter-i-ll.html

Looks like It's one of "our people" asking a similar question there. Guy who replied claims to have worked 30 years in welding and said this:
If you are using an argon flow meter for nitrogen gas you actually getting about 70% of the flow rate setting. For instance if shows 20 LPM, you're actually getting 14 LPM. So to get a flow rate of 15 LPM of nitrogen with your flow meter you would need a flow rate of 21.43 on the argon flow meter.

Now, @emma99 what you're saying is that you get more nitrogen than the argon flow meter shows? So the justanswer.com expert is wrong? That's the thing I'm trying to establish, whether it's more or less, "by how much" is secondary at this point ;)
 
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E

emma99

Student
Jul 31, 2024
193
The more I read about argon-nitrogen conversions on this forum, the more confused I am. I found this page, it might have been posted before: https://www.justanswer.com/home-improvement/odmlx-inert-gas-experts-argon-flowmeter-i-ll.html

Looks like It's one of "our people" asking a similar question there. Guy who replied claims to have worked 30 years in welding and said this:


Now, @emma99 what you're saying is that you get more nitrogen than the argon flow meter shows? So the justanswer.com expert is wrong? That's the thing I'm trying to establish, whether it's more or less, "by how much" is secondary at this point ;)

Omg someone went to justanswer.com for help in CTB.

@chester i'm in the same boat as you.
I'm stuck between weather or not the flow meter is higher or lower than the correct reading
and if so by what factor.

Right now iv settled on the idea that I should multiply my intended usage by 1.2

However I still dont know who is right and who is wrong,
Iv seen the answer of a minus 80% reduction thrown around before
using the logic that Air is basically nitrogen,
and that Argon is 18% heavier than than air
and that Air is 2% heavier than nitrogen
Therefore argon is 20% heavier than Nitrogen

But if you think about it for a second.
weather or not Nitrogen is 20% or 30% lighter than Argon.
Pushing a lighter gas through a flow meter calibrated for a heavier gas
would mean that you would need a more gas to push the ball on the flowmeter.
Which would be that if the reading is 10LPM you are in actual fact using 20/30% more nitrogen
to get the same reading.

All i know for certain is the results of the two tests I ran
and until i see otherwise, i can only assume that everything
else is just some one on the internet giving their opinion

I really don't know either.
do let me know if your research shows up anything else.
I also found these two sources.

It appears someone asked this question on homebrewtalk

one of the comments includes a dead link but the comment states:

"
argon is a considerably heavier gas than nitrogen. I would think that the indicator is calibrated for the "thicker" gas. using nitrogen would indicate low IMHO.

looks like you would need to convert it
"

brooksinstrument.com talks about

Gas Correction Factors

and shows you how to perform conversions if your running Argon
out of an Air.Oxygen regulator. and includes this formula.

Calculating conversion factors

However they don't mention an argon regulator on a nitrogen tank

 
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C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
Omg someone went to justanswer.com for help in CTB.

@chester i'm in the same boat as you.
I'm stuck between weather or not the flow meter is higher or lower than the correct reading
and if so by what factor.

Right now iv settled on the idea that I should multiply my intended usage by 1.2

However I still dont know who is right and who is wrong,
Iv seen the answer of a minus 80% reduction thrown around before
using the logic that Air is basically nitrogen,
and that Argon is 18% heavier than than air
and that Air is 2% heavier than nitrogen
Therefore argon is 20% heavier than Nitrogen

All i know for certain is the results of the two tests I ran
and until i see otherwise, i can only assume that everything
else is just some one on the internet giving their opinion

I really don't know either.
do let me know if your research shows up anything else.
I think I'm gonna go with the 70% rule from justanswer and hope I have enough nitrogen in case it's the other way round. I've got an 8 liter, 200bar cylinder, already wasted between 30 and 40bar on leak testing and trial runs. It's supposed to contain 1600 liters when it's full, so hopefully, assuming the next time I follow through, I should have more than enough, even if the expert was wrong. I guess that's my safest bet at this point, given that I've got no reliable source of information and I'm too dumb to figure it out myself.
 
K

kudaphillips

Student
Apr 17, 2024
178
I found Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA580 0-25L on alibaba
Similar to as in following picture
View attachment 146906
My question is "can i buy from there or are they low grade or maybe not calibrated properly?
As they a so much cheap then other listed on another sites
I think if there's a concern that flow meter isn't calibrated properly or accurate , you can just see how fast your exit bag fills up.Assuming it's standard turkey size oven bag , It it fills up under a minute , your prob in the 15 lpm range . If it' fills up in 30 seconds .. your in th 25 lpm plus range .You should be doing a test run anyway to make sure everything fills up correctly and it working .
Could also run multiple tanks /regulators to account for any leaks / rig failure
 
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V

Vishap

New Member
Jul 23, 2023
1
Hello, I happen to have access to ultra-high purity inert gasses (Ar, N2, He). Is one better than the others? And also I was wondering if a bag is the best way or if I can kinda macguyver a cpap mask onto the pressure regulator? Apologies if this info is readily available elsewhere, I'm new to this site and forums in general.
 
K

kudaphillips

Student
Apr 17, 2024
178
Hello, I happen to have access to ultra-high purity inert gasses (Ar, N2, He). Is one better than the others? And also I was wondering if a bag is the best way or if I can kinda macguyver a cpap mask onto the pressure regulator? Apologies if this info is readily available elsewhere, I'm new to this site and forums in general.
Don't do the cpap. Do exit bag , or if you're interested in exploring scuba and scba maybe peruse those threads and see if you prefer . If you are certain of the purity of the gases , most members here will rank in this order 1. Helium 2. Nitrogen 3. Argon. This ranking is due to the weight of the gases . They will say the lighter the gas the better it stays in the bag . My personal opinion in that they all would suffice at the proper flow rate . Keep in mind the flow rates will be different , find the proper conversion if you want to be exact .
 
C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
I wasn't planing on logging in anymore, but here I am. Tried twice today, decided to abort both times, because I felt something was off. I heard it's supposed to be peaceful and before you know it you're out. It wasn't like this. You know the feeling when you make a fool of yourself in public, and you feel yourself blush, you feel your ears and face getting red? Imagine this feeling in your face and ears, but much, much stronger and more uncomfortable. It felt like there was blood pressure building up. Both times, when I removed the bag, I felt very lightheaded, to put it mildly. I mean I was barely conscious, so I was definitely oxygen deprived. I also coughed up blood after the second attempt, but it passed quite quickly.

If I knew what I felt was to be expected, then I probably wouldn't have panicked and aborted. But it made me worry something isn't going as it was supposed to. Nowhere near as peaceful as I hoped. I definitely didn't last the 50 seconds supposedly required to pass out. But I need to be sure everything is in order before I let myself pass out.

Any thoughts, anyone?
 
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K

kudaphillips

Student
Apr 17, 2024
178
I wasn't planing on logging in anymore, but here I am. Tried twice today, decided to abort both times, because I felt something was off. I heard it's supposed to be peaceful and before you know it you're out. It wasn't like this. You know the feeling when you make a fool of yourself in public, and you feel yourself blush, you feel your ears and face getting red? Imagine this feeling in your face and ears, but much, much stronger and more uncomfortable. It felt like there was blood pressure building up. Both times, when I removed the bag, I felt very lightheaded, to put it mildly. I mean I was barely conscious, so I was definitely oxygen deprived. I also coughed up blood after the second attempt, but it passed quite quickly.

If I knew what I felt was to be expected, then I probably wouldn't have panicked and aborted. But it made me worry something isn't going as it was supposed to. Nowhere near as peaceful as I hoped. I definitely didn't last the 50 seconds supposedly required to pass out. But I need to be sure everything is in order before I let myself pass out.

Any thoughts, anyone?
I def haven't heard of anyone coughing up blood that's def a first , and I don't understand that .
However, many people including myself , report it definitely not being peaceful . For me, when I've tried , I had pounding heart and profoundly sweating . I'm not sure if it's a anxiet provoked or what, the brain is powerful , but discomfort is certainly common .

But if you were coughing up blood …I don't know . I think I heard of some people complaining about a cough after an attempt. So I guess ..I dunno, interested in other opinions in this .

All you can do is test your gas purity. Follow procedure and I guess just trust it . If your gas is 99% bag is made correctly with elastic, and adequate gas and your confident in it …it's gonna work . Sucks that you may have only had a few more seconds to go .
I'm a fucking pussy riddled with SI and have gone overkill with everything . Double tank, double regulator , an 80cf and a 40cf. I can't have any concerns of failure . Beef up your confidence in your rig maybe ,
 
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chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
I def haven't heard of anyone coughing up blood that's def a first , and I don't understand that .
I don't think it came from the lungs. It's like something was sore somewhere between my lungs and my mouth. Hard to tell what and where exactly. Coughed up a few teaspoons of saliva mixed with mucus and blood, but it was mostly blood. After 15 minutes no more blood. Maybe I have a condition I don't know about. But it only happened to me after the attempt, while I was already hypoxic, never before.
 
O

outrider567

Visionary
Apr 5, 2022
2,619
I wasn't planing on logging in anymore, but here I am. Tried twice today, decided to abort both times, because I felt something was off. I heard it's supposed to be peaceful and before you know it you're out. It wasn't like this. You know the feeling when you make a fool of yourself in public, and you feel yourself blush, you feel your ears and face getting red? Imagine this feeling in your face and ears, but much, much stronger and more uncomfortable. It felt like there was blood pressure building up. Both times, when I removed the bag, I felt very lightheaded, to put it mildly. I mean I was barely conscious, so I was definitely oxygen deprived. I also coughed up blood after the second attempt, but it passed quite quickly.

If I knew what I felt was to be expected, then I probably wouldn't have panicked and aborted. But it made me worry something isn't going as it was supposed to. Nowhere near as peaceful as I hoped. I definitely didn't last the 50 seconds supposedly required to pass out. But I need to be sure everything is in order before I let myself pass out.

Any thoughts, anyone?
I wasn't uncomfortable at all in my tests, but I use an EEBD Hood--Did you track your oxygen level with the oximeter? After I took off my Hood, it dropped all the way to 40
 
C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
I wasn't uncomfortable at all in my tests, but I use an EEBD Hood--Did you track your oxygen level with the oximeter? After I took off my Hood, it dropped all the way to 40
Did a final test run a few hours ago. I finally got an oximeter. Maybe I've done something differently, because there was no discomfort this time. Or maybe I didn't carry on long enough, I let my Sp02 drop to only around 60, which happened way quicker than I expected. Funny how it went right back up to 98 after just two normal breaths. I wasn't as lightheaded as previously, so I definitely didn't wait as long. No blood this time, but I have a dry cough, like something was itchy in my throat.
 
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chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
How long did that take? Good to hear you were comfortable this time.
Probably less than 20 seconds, I didn't time it. Still possible the discomfort would set on later. But i no longer care. It's not like I'll have to endure it for hours. Even if the pain was excruciating, it's only a minute or so, I can take it. As long as I have a decent chance of success, I'm good. I might end up a brain-damaged vegetable, but you know what? Even if that happened, I'd still consider it a successful attempt. My body would survive, but I wouldn't survive as a person. Good enough for me.
 
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DanielDanDean

DanielDanDean

Member
Jul 18, 2024
39
I found the Nitrogen bottle on the internet but I can't find any pressure regulator with the same valve connection (B24,32 x 1/14 inches ) I only find 21,8 x 1/14".

And finding pressure regulators with L/min showing is hard, I only find regulators displaying bars and psi

If I buy a regulator for argon with the good dimensions, which flow should I use on that regulator?
A retailer told me about a regulator (I didn't saw it) with a flow of 15L/min if you put it in maximum position, would it be good?
 
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C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
A little update from me: don't underestimate the power of CO2. This was supposed to be the last time. Just like in my previous post, I thought to myself "screw the hyperventilating and bag inflating, I'm gonna be out in a matter of seconds anyway". Well, it was hell. I barely managed to go down to 80% SpO2. I think that's where my previous discomfort came from, that I didn't follow the instructions properly enough. Let it be a warning to others.

I found the Nitrogen bottle on the internet but I can't find any pressure regulator with the same valve connection (B24,32 x 1/14 inches )
And finding pressure regulators with L/min showing is hard, I only find regulators displaying bars and psi

Does anyone know if it's possible to convert bars in L/Minute?
I searched this forum (and other sources) for the same answer, no luck. It seems it only makes sense to use a flow regulator, not a pressure regulator. I bought one for Argon, because it was cheap and easily available. But then there's an issue if I'm converting the flow rate properly or not. I hope I am.

So yeah, unless you can find a Nitrogen flow regulator, you're risking it one way or another. Nobody will give you a definite answer, or at least it's unlikely you'll get this answer here. Unless some engineer specializing in fluid mechanics joins soon :ahhha:
 
DanielDanDean

DanielDanDean

Member
Jul 18, 2024
39
A little update from me: don't underestimate the power of CO2. This was supposed to be the last time. Just like in my previous post, I thought to myself "screw the hyperventilating and bag inflating, I'm gonna be out in a matter of seconds anyway". Well, it was hell. I barely managed to go down to 80% SpO2. I think that's where my previous discomfort came from, that I didn't follow the instructions properly enough. Let it be a warning to others.


I searched this forum (and other sources) for the same answer, no luck. It seems it only makes sense to use a flow regulator, not a pressure regulator. I bought one for Argon, because it was cheap and easily available. But then there's an issue if I'm converting the flow rate properly or not. I hope I am.

So yeah, unless you can find a Nitrogen flow regulator, you're risking it one way or another. Nobody will give you a definite answer, or at least it's unlikely you'll get this answer here. Unless some engineer specializing in fluid mechanics joins soon :ahhha:
Thanks a lot
I read in previous pages that 15L/ min for Nitrogen is 23L/minutes with an argon regulator, is it true?

For example, is this article suitable for use with a nitrogen bottle?
 
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C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
I read in previous pages that 15L/ min for Nitrogen is 23L/minutes with an argon regulator, is it true?

For example, is this article suitable for use with a nitrogen bottle?
The answer to both is "I'm not sure, I'm far from an expert". All I can say is I hope the conversion rate is correct, otherwise I'm getting myself in trouble. And my flow regulator has a transparent cylinder with a floating ball in it. Does it mean the one you sent won't work? No idea.
 
Y

youareforgiven

Member
Aug 10, 2022
34
Hi!

Got my hood and flow regulator. I just received my Nitrogen, but it worries me a little bit. I ordered 200 bar 10L, but when I look on the cylinder itself it says 150 bar. When I connect to my flow regulator it says 2500 psi, while 2000 psi is FULL(it says on the regulator).

I am going to test purity, but for now is it a problem that this exceeds the 2000 psi? I know the regulator can max handle 200 bar.
 
Y

youareforgiven

Member
Aug 10, 2022
34
2500psi is 172bar.
Thanks for the respons! Okay so even when my flow regulator says full at 2000 psi, that's no problem that it's 2500 psi?

Btw it is a little bit over 2500. But is it not weird that on the cilinder it says 150 bar?
 
C

chester

Experienced
Aug 1, 2024
257
Thanks for the respons! Okay so even when my flow regulator says full at 2000 psi, that's no problem that it's 2500 psi?
Btw it is a little bit over 2500. But is it not weird that on the cilinder it says 150 bar?
Question 1 - I don't know.
Question 2 - I agree, it's weird.

This Nitrogen bottle is linked in the PPH

Is it good for the exit bag method? Some posts here say that there isn't enough gas..
This cylinder contains 400l of nitrogen. 400l at 15lpm gives about 26min. According to PPH (if you trust them) death should occur within 5-10min, 2 minutes for the bag inflation, leaves you 14 minute margin. I'm just stating the facts, I'll leave the conclusions to you.
 

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