Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[devils~advocate]

Over 400 euro without tax (+21%). They also rent 10L and 20L, but I think those are 92% helium. The money isn't a problem; I'm more concerned about the weight. (-:

It's 300 bar, but that doesn't really say anything to me. Chabot mentions in his book something like multiply liters with PW value to know how much compressed helium you've got. Site doesn't mention PW unfortunately.

Weight wise a 50L is about 55 kg (120 lbs).
From what Ive read, 50L of Helium is about 10 m3
This is a huge cylinder.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

Weight wise a 50L is about 55 kg (120 lbs).
From what Ive read, 50L of Helium is about 10 m3
This is a huge cylinder.

Better to be safe than sorry. (-; But I think you're right: the tank is probably at least 49 kg. 10L or 20L is better.

I also checked the PPeH and it says in Europe they use type DIN 477 regulators.

 

[EsotericByDesign]

After reading the start of this thread, and various posts within, would someone be able to clarify for me what numbers to aim for? I've seen several ranges mentioned. I've found 99.99% pure helium tanks (their label) that list the weight/amount(?) as 19g / 103 Liters compressed / 27 gallons. I'm assuming one tank wouldn't be enough, but would two? Or, likely, probably need more?

 

[trs]

I'm considering the EB or SN to CTB method, depending on how much material I can gather. I have questions and concerns about the EB method:

- I found a bottle of nitrogen for sale on a beer brewing equipment website. It's a 2l x 240 bar bottle, or 480l of compressed nitrogen if I'm correct. The bottle is labelled "food-grade nitrogen". Could this have an impact on the success of the EB method?

- Is 480l enough? At 15/min, that's 32 minutes of gas, which is more than the PPHE recommends.

- Is the EB method still reliable? Is there another method like EEBD, SCUBA, SBA or does it require a larger quantity of gas?

Sorry if my english is not good, I'm using Deepl

did you find out what percentage concentration this is? you'd need to know what food grade nitrogen concentration represents.

 

[devils~advocate]

did you find out what percentage concentration this is? you'd need to know what food grade nitrogen concentration represents.

Usually this will be at least %99 or even finer than that. The 'Food Grade' means its been certified, tested or meets standards. I dont know exactly what standards those are, but no matter, as long as its high purity. Actually with any gases I would think as long as you have 95% that should be good.

 

[ReadyToGo34]

Hi everybody, I'm hoping somebody can help me. I ditched my other method and decided upon nitrogen with an exit bag. I'm still nervous about doing everything correctly, but I'm just going to keep researching until I'm confident. The one thing I'm really having a hard time with is the regulator I'm supposed to use. It seems the only ones I can find are for CO2 and/or Argon. And the ones that I find that are made for Nitrogen only have things that tell the PSI and nothing about the Lpm. I keep reading conflicting information about what it should be set at, then. Some things say between 15-20, even if it's intended for other gases. But then I've read other things that say it should be set at 12??? I'm just so confused. I wanna be sure to get the flow rate right, I can't have this fail & end up a vegetable. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

How would it benefit from using the regular inner mask of the hood? Or are you referring to the exit bag?

I can tell from experience from using a closed constant flow setup that 10/lpm is not nearly enough, even with shallow breath 25/lpm was just enough to feel comfortable 30-35/lpm is what I'm going to use most likely.

Why would less than 25/lpm feel uncomfortable? If I'm using an exit bag with 15 or 10lpm would it still feel uncomfortable and therefore i would have to use the higher flow rate?!

 

[outrider567]

Why would less than 25/lpm feel uncomfortable? If I'm using an exit bag with 15 or 10lpm would it still feel uncomfortable and therefore i would have to use the higher flow rate?!

Neither 15 LPM or 25 LPM Nitrogen felt uncomfortable to me, just the opposite

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

Neither 15 LPM or 25 LPM Nitrogen felt uncomfortable to me, just the opposite

PPH states: 15 lpm when using a self-made exit bag, 25 lpm if you're using a hood (like the 3M Versaflo).

 

[outrider567]

PPH states: 15 lpm when using a self-made exit bag, 25 lpm if you're using a hood (like the 3M Versaflo).

Yes, I plan on using 25 LPM as recommended

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

Yes, I plan on using 25 LPM as recommended

So you're using a hood like this? They're quite expensive. This one is about 445 euro.

 

[outrider567]

So you're using a hood like this? They're quite expensive. This one is about 445 euro.

No, I got mine from escMode out of Canada before the authorities shut it down, about $200

 

[kudaphillips]

Hi everybody, I'm hoping somebody can help me. I ditched my other method and decided upon nitrogen with an exit bag. I'm still nervous about doing everything correctly, but I'm just going to keep researching until I'm confident. The one thing I'm really having a hard time with is the regulator I'm supposed to use. It seems the only ones I can find are for CO2 and/or Argon. And the ones that I find that are made for Nitrogen only have things that tell the PSI and nothing about the Lpm. I keep reading conflicting information about what it should be set at, then. Some things say between 15-20, even if it's intended for other gases. But then I've read other things that say it should be set at 12??? I'm just so confused. I wanna be sure to get the flow rate right, I can't have this fail & end up a vegetable. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

I've never seen anything that supported less than 15 lpm for exit bag . Argon regulators are fine , just be mindful of th argon flow—->nitrogen flow conversion 15 lpm argon is like 17-18 lpm nitrogen.

PPH states: 15 lpm when using a self-made exit bag, 25 lpm if you're using a hood (like the 3M Versaflo).

Do you think there's any negatives for higher flow rate like 25-30 lpm for exit bag ? ( assuming ample supply of gas )

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

Do you think there's any negatives for higher flow rate like 25-30 lpm for exit bag ? ( assuming ample supply of gas )

I have no idea. PPH advises 15 lpm for an exit bag, that's all I know.

 

[kudaphillips]

I'm 99% sure someone I was talking to from an exit group suicided with exit bag , 20 cf tank, very long hose, prob not ideal set up, she asked a million questions kinda got tired of answering her, kept telling her to read the thread but she wouldn't.

Anyway, I see she died on Facebook , really wish there was a way to ask her loved ones more detail , but it seems like an impossible question to ask someone If they know how their loved one killed themselves …

I mention because people always interested in anecdotes, and this is a comforting one because it was someone who was pretty ignorant about the method, compared to the brain trust in this thread.

 

[k1w1]

No, I got mine from escMode out of Canada before the authorities shut it down, about $200

Woohoo.....Kev, made a killing out of those products.No judgement as it made for a streamlined process but.....I wish Id thought of it first!!!!!!!

 

[HorriblePain]

I tried to purchase a full nitrogen tank online but the order was cancelled because I could not prove that I have a business use for the tank. I finally found another source but I do not know if this tank is adequate. Here is the information provided on the product page:

Tank Size: 125 Cu/Ft
Working Pressure: 3AA2265 (is that a typo?)
Test Pressure: 3775
Diameter: 7.25"
Length: 41.5"
Weight: 50 lbs
CGA Fitting: 580

For some reason, that same product page in the product summary has a variation on some of those details:
Height: 48"
Diameter: 7"
Weight: 69 lbs

Please help me to determine whether this tank is sufficient for doing the nitrogen method from the peaceful pill book.
This has been the only filled tank I have been able to find online other than from the company that cancelled my order.
Thanks.

 

[cryptic mantis]

Survival instinct is a bitch. As I've described elsewhere(?), in that moment where I started to black out it was as though I became two people: the persona who was desperate to ctb, and a much, much steadier persona, less present in my mindset but somehow more forceful, who took control of my body and removed the bag from my head. I did not tear the bag off or struggle, I just quickly and dexterously removed it from my head. Then that second persona vanished and I collapsed in a sobbing heap. The description coming to my mind now is that it was akin to being a small child, and lifted away from my games by a far larger adult that I hadn't a chance to even struggle against effectively. It had shades of the same sense of impotence, fury, frustration, indignation, injustice.

I was reading this thread the last few days and your experience intrigued me. As I had written some words recently, in a bit of a poem. Seems to match that sort of thing, although I did refer to my soul not entirely kindly.

 

[kudaphillips]

I tried to purchase a full nitrogen tank online but the order was cancelled because I could not prove that I have a business use for the tank. I finally found another source but I do not know if this tank is adequate. Here is the information provided on the product page:

Tank Size: 125 Cu/Ft
Working Pressure: 3AA2265 (is that a typo?)
Test Pressure: 3775
Diameter: 7.25"
Length: 41.5"
Weight: 50 lbs
CGA Fitting: 580

For some reason, that same product page in the product summary has a variation on some of those details:
Height: 48"
Diameter: 7"
Weight: 69 lbs

Please help me to determine whether this tank is sufficient for doing the nitrogen method from the peaceful pill book.
This has been the only filled tank I have been able to find online other than from the company that cancelled my order.
Thanks.

80cf tank is considered overkill . 120 cf is a big tank. Nothing wrong with that though no harm in having more gas . I have an 80 and it was pro 40-50 lb , the 120 is prob 70 lb

 

[Samovypil]

Всем привет, надеюсь, кто-нибудь мне поможет. Я отказался от другого метода и решил использовать азот с выходным мешком. Я все еще волнуюсь, правильно ли я все делаю, но я просто продолжу исследования, пока не буду уверен. Единственное, с чем у меня действительно возникли трудности, это регулятор, который я должен использовать. Кажется, единственные, которые я могу найти, предназначены для CO2 и/или аргона. А те, которые я нахожу и которые предназначены для азота, имеют только то, что сообщает PSI, но ничего о Lpm. Я продолжаю читать противоречивую информацию о том, на каком значении он должен быть установлен. Некоторые говорят от 15 до 20, даже если он предназначен для других газов. Но потом я прочитал другие, что он должен быть установлен на 12??? Я просто в полном замешательстве. Я хочу быть уверенным, что правильно установил расход, я не могу допустить, чтобы он вышел из строя и в итоге оказался овощем. Любая помощь будет оценена по достоинству. Спасибо.

Для выходного мешка лучше использовать гелий, так как он легче воздуха и в мешке на голове вытеснит воздух, концентрация газа будет выше, если использовать гелий.
(через переводчика)

 

[indocanda]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

 

[outrider567]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

Yes, 40 cu ft is more than enough to CTB

I tried to purchase a full nitrogen tank online but the order was cancelled because I could not prove that I have a business use for the tank. I finally found another source but I do not know if this tank is adequate. Here is the information provided on the product page:

Tank Size: 125 Cu/Ft
Working Pressure: 3AA2265 (is that a typo?)
Test Pressure: 3775
Diameter: 7.25"
Length: 41.5"
Weight: 50 lbs
CGA Fitting: 580

For some reason, that same product page in the product summary has a variation on some of those details:
Height: 48"
Diameter: 7"
Weight: 69 lbs

Please help me to determine whether this tank is sufficient for doing the nitrogen method from the peaceful pill book.
This has been the only filled tank I have been able to find online other than from the company that cancelled my order.
Thanks.

Mine is 125 cu ft and 69 lbs

 

[kudaphillips]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

Both regulators would work at those flow rates, I'd get the 25 lpm so you have the option for more air flow

 

[cryptic mantis]

this is the valve I can get at the shop here in town. I have read through the thread but I'm not always 100 on my comprehension. I really want to make sure I do this correctly. Do I need another sort of connection a well or just hose to nose, so to speak?

 

[HorriblePain]

If a new tank filled with nitrogen is put in a closet for storage, how long will it take before too much of the gas has leaked out for me to use it for a peaceful exit? I asked AI if it is realistic that 95% of the gas will still be in the tank after 4 years and it said that 95% of the gas still remaining in 4 years is a realistic expectation as long as there is no damage to the valve causing a leak and the temperature of the storage area is 50-80 degrees. AI has been completely wrong with some of its answers in the past in my experience. Will someone please tell me a realistic estimate of how long the gas will remain in the tank if stored in a closet? I am dealing with a situation where I don't know ahead of time how long it will be before my health problems reach a point where I am ready to leave this world. It could be months, but it could be a few years. I am terribly worried I will be ready to use the gas to exit this world one day in the future only to find that there isn't enough nitrogen left in the tank. I am wondering how frequently I will need to either have the tank refilled or purchase a new filled tank. Thanks.

 

[outrider567]

If a new tank filled with nitrogen is put in a closet for storage, how long will it take before too much of the gas has leaked out for me to use it for a peaceful exit? I asked AI if it is realistic that 95% of the gas will still be in the tank after 4 years and it said that 95% of the gas still remaining in 4 years is a realistic expectation as long as there is no damage to the valve causing a leak and the temperature of the storage area is 50-80 degrees. AI has been completely wrong with some of its answers in the past in my experience. Will someone please tell me a realistic estimate of how long the gas will remain in the tank if stored in a closet? I am dealing with a situation where I don't know ahead of time how long it will be before my health problems reach a point where I am ready to leave this world. It could be months, but it could be a few years. I am terribly worried I will be ready to use the gas to exit this world one day in the future only to find that there isn't enough nitrogen left in the tank. I am wondering how frequently I will need to either have the tank refilled or purchase a new filled tank. Thanks.

My tank at 125 cuft is 2.5 years old--PSI was originally 2200, it eventually dropped to 1650 after a year and a half, but in the last year, it hasn't dropped at all, still1650, way more than enough to CTB

 

[kudaphillips]

If a new tank filled with nitrogen is put in a closet for storage, how long will it take before too much of the gas has leaked out for me to use it for a peaceful exit? I asked AI if it is realistic that 95% of the gas will still be in the tank after 4 years and it said that 95% of the gas still remaining in 4 years is a realistic expectation as long as there is no damage to the valve causing a leak and the temperature of the storage area is 50-80 degrees. AI has been completely wrong with some of its answers in the past in my experience. Will someone please tell me a realistic estimate of how long the gas will remain in the tank if stored in a closet? I am dealing with a situation where I don't know ahead of time how long it will be before my health problems reach a point where I am ready to leave this world. It could be months, but it could be a few years. I am terribly worried I will be ready to use the gas to exit this world one day in the future only to find that there isn't enough nitrogen left in the tank. I am wondering how frequently I will need to either have the tank refilled or purchase a new filled tank. Thanks.

Pph / exit international people say it can stay good indefinitely . Outriders account of pressure dropping after a year is first I've heard, though still concerning . Luckily you'll have a pressure reading on your regulator and if it drops significantly below 2000 psi then you'll know

 

[indocanda]

Yes, 40 cu ft is more than enough to CTB

Mine is 125 cu ft and 69 lbs

Thanks for reply

 

[Fayrie2001]

Does anyone know any company in England that I can buy a suitable amount of inert gas? Not rent. I know I need around 600 litres but the most I can find is between 47-110 which are huge. Thanks in advance.

 

[Schmopo]

After getting a better sized double joiner to connect from the tube to EEBD tube, I now have got airflow into the mask. One issue I found is there's a deliberate(?) leak point from the regulator itself. There's a hole in the nut point that gets attached to the cylinder and it bleeds the N.

Is this normal or do I need to cover it somehow or buy a different regulator?

With what little I understand about this, I think the issue was trying to fine tune the regulator's knob to reduce the air escaping from the hole but air still escapes the hole, just a much smaller amount compared to last time. So I'm not sure if the diaphragm is damaged and I need to replace it again or if this is normal. Other issue is it can reach at 20L/ph and not 25 needed without it blowing more air out.

Quote above is for reference.
I wish I took up engineering...