Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[kudaphillips]

I'm 99% sure someone I was talking to from an exit group suicided with exit bag , 20 cf tank, very long hose, prob not ideal set up, she asked a million questions kinda got tired of answering her, kept telling her to read the thread but she wouldn't.

Anyway, I see she died on Facebook , really wish there was a way to ask her loved ones more detail , but it seems like an impossible question to ask someone If they know how their loved one killed themselves …

I mention because people always interested in anecdotes, and this is a comforting one because it was someone who was pretty ignorant about the method, compared to the brain trust in this thread.

 

[k1w1]

No, I got mine from escMode out of Canada before the authorities shut it down, about $200

Woohoo.....Kev, made a killing out of those products.No judgement as it made for a streamlined process but.....I wish Id thought of it first!!!!!!!

 

[HorriblePain]

I tried to purchase a full nitrogen tank online but the order was cancelled because I could not prove that I have a business use for the tank. I finally found another source but I do not know if this tank is adequate. Here is the information provided on the product page:

Tank Size: 125 Cu/Ft
Working Pressure: 3AA2265 (is that a typo?)
Test Pressure: 3775
Diameter: 7.25"
Length: 41.5"
Weight: 50 lbs
CGA Fitting: 580

For some reason, that same product page in the product summary has a variation on some of those details:
Height: 48"
Diameter: 7"
Weight: 69 lbs

Please help me to determine whether this tank is sufficient for doing the nitrogen method from the peaceful pill book.
This has been the only filled tank I have been able to find online other than from the company that cancelled my order.
Thanks.

 

[cryptic mantis]

Survival instinct is a bitch. As I've described elsewhere(?), in that moment where I started to black out it was as though I became two people: the persona who was desperate to ctb, and a much, much steadier persona, less present in my mindset but somehow more forceful, who took control of my body and removed the bag from my head. I did not tear the bag off or struggle, I just quickly and dexterously removed it from my head. Then that second persona vanished and I collapsed in a sobbing heap. The description coming to my mind now is that it was akin to being a small child, and lifted away from my games by a far larger adult that I hadn't a chance to even struggle against effectively. It had shades of the same sense of impotence, fury, frustration, indignation, injustice.

I was reading this thread the last few days and your experience intrigued me. As I had written some words recently, in a bit of a poem. Seems to match that sort of thing, although I did refer to my soul not entirely kindly.

 

[kudaphillips]

I tried to purchase a full nitrogen tank online but the order was cancelled because I could not prove that I have a business use for the tank. I finally found another source but I do not know if this tank is adequate. Here is the information provided on the product page:

Tank Size: 125 Cu/Ft
Working Pressure: 3AA2265 (is that a typo?)
Test Pressure: 3775
Diameter: 7.25"
Length: 41.5"
Weight: 50 lbs
CGA Fitting: 580

For some reason, that same product page in the product summary has a variation on some of those details:
Height: 48"
Diameter: 7"
Weight: 69 lbs

Please help me to determine whether this tank is sufficient for doing the nitrogen method from the peaceful pill book.
This has been the only filled tank I have been able to find online other than from the company that cancelled my order.
Thanks.

80cf tank is considered overkill . 120 cf is a big tank. Nothing wrong with that though no harm in having more gas . I have an 80 and it was pro 40-50 lb , the 120 is prob 70 lb

 

[Samovypil]

Всем привет, надеюсь, кто-нибудь мне поможет. Я отказался от другого метода и решил использовать азот с выходным мешком. Я все еще волнуюсь, правильно ли я все делаю, но я просто продолжу исследования, пока не буду уверен. Единственное, с чем у меня действительно возникли трудности, это регулятор, который я должен использовать. Кажется, единственные, которые я могу найти, предназначены для CO2 и/или аргона. А те, которые я нахожу и которые предназначены для азота, имеют только то, что сообщает PSI, но ничего о Lpm. Я продолжаю читать противоречивую информацию о том, на каком значении он должен быть установлен. Некоторые говорят от 15 до 20, даже если он предназначен для других газов. Но потом я прочитал другие, что он должен быть установлен на 12??? Я просто в полном замешательстве. Я хочу быть уверенным, что правильно установил расход, я не могу допустить, чтобы он вышел из строя и в итоге оказался овощем. Любая помощь будет оценена по достоинству. Спасибо.

Для выходного мешка лучше использовать гелий, так как он легче воздуха и в мешке на голове вытеснит воздух, концентрация газа будет выше, если использовать гелий.
(через переводчика)

 

[indocanda]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

 

[outrider567]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

Yes, 40 cu ft is more than enough to CTB

I tried to purchase a full nitrogen tank online but the order was cancelled because I could not prove that I have a business use for the tank. I finally found another source but I do not know if this tank is adequate. Here is the information provided on the product page:

Tank Size: 125 Cu/Ft
Working Pressure: 3AA2265 (is that a typo?)
Test Pressure: 3775
Diameter: 7.25"
Length: 41.5"
Weight: 50 lbs
CGA Fitting: 580

For some reason, that same product page in the product summary has a variation on some of those details:
Height: 48"
Diameter: 7"
Weight: 69 lbs

Please help me to determine whether this tank is sufficient for doing the nitrogen method from the peaceful pill book.
This has been the only filled tank I have been able to find online other than from the company that cancelled my order.
Thanks.

Mine is 125 cu ft and 69 lbs

 

[kudaphillips]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

Both regulators would work at those flow rates, I'd get the 25 lpm so you have the option for more air flow

 

[cryptic mantis]

this is the valve I can get at the shop here in town. I have read through the thread but I'm not always 100 on my comprehension. I really want to make sure I do this correctly. Do I need another sort of connection a well or just hose to nose, so to speak?

 

[HorriblePain]

If a new tank filled with nitrogen is put in a closet for storage, how long will it take before too much of the gas has leaked out for me to use it for a peaceful exit? I asked AI if it is realistic that 95% of the gas will still be in the tank after 4 years and it said that 95% of the gas still remaining in 4 years is a realistic expectation as long as there is no damage to the valve causing a leak and the temperature of the storage area is 50-80 degrees. AI has been completely wrong with some of its answers in the past in my experience. Will someone please tell me a realistic estimate of how long the gas will remain in the tank if stored in a closet? I am dealing with a situation where I don't know ahead of time how long it will be before my health problems reach a point where I am ready to leave this world. It could be months, but it could be a few years. I am terribly worried I will be ready to use the gas to exit this world one day in the future only to find that there isn't enough nitrogen left in the tank. I am wondering how frequently I will need to either have the tank refilled or purchase a new filled tank. Thanks.

 

[outrider567]

If a new tank filled with nitrogen is put in a closet for storage, how long will it take before too much of the gas has leaked out for me to use it for a peaceful exit? I asked AI if it is realistic that 95% of the gas will still be in the tank after 4 years and it said that 95% of the gas still remaining in 4 years is a realistic expectation as long as there is no damage to the valve causing a leak and the temperature of the storage area is 50-80 degrees. AI has been completely wrong with some of its answers in the past in my experience. Will someone please tell me a realistic estimate of how long the gas will remain in the tank if stored in a closet? I am dealing with a situation where I don't know ahead of time how long it will be before my health problems reach a point where I am ready to leave this world. It could be months, but it could be a few years. I am terribly worried I will be ready to use the gas to exit this world one day in the future only to find that there isn't enough nitrogen left in the tank. I am wondering how frequently I will need to either have the tank refilled or purchase a new filled tank. Thanks.

My tank at 125 cuft is 2.5 years old--PSI was originally 2200, it eventually dropped to 1650 after a year and a half, but in the last year, it hasn't dropped at all, still1650, way more than enough to CTB

 

[kudaphillips]

If a new tank filled with nitrogen is put in a closet for storage, how long will it take before too much of the gas has leaked out for me to use it for a peaceful exit? I asked AI if it is realistic that 95% of the gas will still be in the tank after 4 years and it said that 95% of the gas still remaining in 4 years is a realistic expectation as long as there is no damage to the valve causing a leak and the temperature of the storage area is 50-80 degrees. AI has been completely wrong with some of its answers in the past in my experience. Will someone please tell me a realistic estimate of how long the gas will remain in the tank if stored in a closet? I am dealing with a situation where I don't know ahead of time how long it will be before my health problems reach a point where I am ready to leave this world. It could be months, but it could be a few years. I am terribly worried I will be ready to use the gas to exit this world one day in the future only to find that there isn't enough nitrogen left in the tank. I am wondering how frequently I will need to either have the tank refilled or purchase a new filled tank. Thanks.

Pph / exit international people say it can stay good indefinitely . Outriders account of pressure dropping after a year is first I've heard, though still concerning . Luckily you'll have a pressure reading on your regulator and if it drops significantly below 2000 psi then you'll know

 

[indocanda]

Yes, 40 cu ft is more than enough to CTB

Mine is 125 cu ft and 69 lbs

Thanks for reply

 

[Fayrie2001]

Does anyone know any company in England that I can buy a suitable amount of inert gas? Not rent. I know I need around 600 litres but the most I can find is between 47-110 which are huge. Thanks in advance.

 

[Schmopo]

After getting a better sized double joiner to connect from the tube to EEBD tube, I now have got airflow into the mask. One issue I found is there's a deliberate(?) leak point from the regulator itself. There's a hole in the nut point that gets attached to the cylinder and it bleeds the N.

Is this normal or do I need to cover it somehow or buy a different regulator?

With what little I understand about this, I think the issue was trying to fine tune the regulator's knob to reduce the air escaping from the hole but air still escapes the hole, just a much smaller amount compared to last time. So I'm not sure if the diaphragm is damaged and I need to replace it again or if this is normal. Other issue is it can reach at 20L/ph and not 25 needed without it blowing more air out.

Quote above is for reference.
I wish I took up engineering...

 

[Fayrie2001]

Would any of these work?

 

[GoingHome11:11]

My eebd is on the way in transit. Two question's now
- Is 40cuft nitrogen cylinder enough for CTB? (I don't how heavy this one is, i can go with bigger cylinder but am lil worried about weight as am not that strong to carry it)
- Is 15lpm setting right on nitrogen regulator for CTB? (am looking online to order "NITROGEN CLICK STYLE REGULATOR CGA 580" this one comes in following variants;

• 0-15 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15)
• 0-25 LPM model click settings (0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 15, 25)

Which one i need to buy?

Hi, I was looking at this same regulator, but the listing says that they only sell to medical professionals or brew masters. Are you either of those? If not, how are you going to order it? You can PM me the answer if you're not comfortable answering it publicly.

 

[indocanda]

Hi, I was looking at this same regulator, but the listing says that they only sell to medical professionals or brew masters. Are you either of those? If not, how are you going to order it? You can PM me the answer if you're not comfortable answering it publicly.

I haven't checked that they are only selling to professionals.

 

[CHOSEVIOLENCE]

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well. I found this one, it comes with the regulator and I was wondering if this is a good choice or not. With shipping it's nearly $400, but I am very desperate...

 

[CHOSEVIOLENCE]

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well. I found this one, it comes with the regulator and I was wondering if this is a good choice or not. With shipping it's nearly $400, but I am very desperate...

NEVERMIND IT ISN'T

 

[emma99]

What are your views on th

I think there was a bit of confusion before, from previous posts I read, about the conversion rate for using nitrogen with an argon flowmeter. But it seemed eventually people settled on the conversion rate of 1.19. You multiply the argon regulator litres per minute(LPM) reading by 1.19 to give the actual nitrogen flowrate.
So:
- 12.5LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~15litres LPM nitrogen flow
- 15LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 18LPM nitrogen flow
- 20 LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 24 LPM nitrogen flow

Or do the opposite, and multiply the nitrogen flowrate you want by 0.84, to give the argon regulator rate you need to set.
E.g. -15(LPM nitrogen flowrate you want) * 0.84 = ~12.5 (argon LPM regulator setting).
- 25(LPM nitrogen flowrate you want) * 0.84 = ~ 21(argon LPM regulator setting).
Etc.

Here's the conversion chart people previously used.
View attachment 131937

They give an example, using helium with an argon flowmeter. The website used standard cubic feet per hour (SCFH). It's the same conversion for litres per minute (LPM).
Their final result should say 'Actual Helium Flow', not 'Actual Argon Flow'. That was a mistake on their part:

View attachment 131927

Can you accurately flow a different gas through a flow control device not calibrated for the same gas?

www.harrisproductsgroup.com

If you're still worried about it, then you may be more comfortable using a nitrogen regulator with nitrogen. You have 3 options:
1)Nitrogen regulator with floating ball flowmeter(Litres per minute (LPM) or Standard cubic feet per hour (SCFH), which can be converted to LPM:

View attachment 131930

2)Nitrogen regulator with litres per minute gauge:
View attachment 131931

3)Nitrogen click-style regulator:
View attachment 131933

Your table states that Argon Gas has a correction factor of 1.37,
However I have seen it mentioned that the correction factor is 1.38

https://www.mpbflowmeters.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MPB_Industries_Useful_Conversions.pdf

Iv also found these two charts.

https://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/gasequipment/Flowmeter-Product-Line-Overview.pdf

https://store.mathesongas.com/content/RotameterGasFactorChart.pdf

In my own test. I ran 100bar of 200~Liters of Nitrogen on an argon gas flow regulator set at 10LPM
During my test the ball went up to 11LPM and halfway through my test I readjusted this tback down to 10LPM

The tank took 14 minutes to empty which would mean that the flow had been running at 14.3LPM

This means I would have to use a conversion rate of 1.4 and not 1.19

EDIT:
I just ran another test on a 140Bar tank.
After reading the conversion chart I set the regulator to 9
which should equate to 7.5LPM of Nitrogen.

Given that it took the tank 18minutes to deplete
it would mean that my regulator was running at a rate of 15.5LPM.

 

[BrocolliSandwich]

Hi. I cannot seem to find information on whether a commercial grade balloon tank (99% helium) with the balloon nozzle could be used without a regulator. Does anyone know?
If not, where I can I pick up a regular in Canada (in Greater Vancouver) right away?

 

[indocanda]

I found Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA580 0-25L on alibaba
Similar to as in following picture

My question is "can i buy from there or are they low grade or maybe not calibrated properly?
As they a so much cheap then other listed on another sites

 

[chester]

What are your views on th


Your table states that Argon Gas has a correction factor of 1.37,
However I have seen it mentioned that the correction factor is 1.38

https://www.mpbflowmeters.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MPB_Industries_Useful_Conversions.pdf

Iv also found these two charts.

https://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/gasequipment/Flowmeter-Product-Line-Overview.pdf

https://store.mathesongas.com/content/RotameterGasFactorChart.pdf

In my own test. I ran 100bar of 200~Liters of Nitrogen on an argon gas flow regulator set at 10LPM
During my test the ball went up to 11LPM and halfway through my test I readjusted this tback down to 10LPM

The tank took 14 minutes to empty which would mean that the flow had been running at 14.3LPM

This means I would have to use a conversion rate of 1.4 and not 1.19

EDIT:
I just ran another test on a 140Bar tank.
After reading the conversion chart I set the regulator to 9
which should equate to 7.5LPM of Nitrogen.

Given that it took the tank 18minutes to deplete
it would mean that my regulator was running at a rate of 15.5LPM.

The more I read about argon-nitrogen conversions on this forum, the more confused I am. I found this page, it might have been posted before: https://www.justanswer.com/home-improvement/odmlx-inert-gas-experts-argon-flowmeter-i-ll.html

Looks like It's one of "our people" asking a similar question there. Guy who replied claims to have worked 30 years in welding and said this:

If you are using an argon flow meter for nitrogen gas you actually getting about 70% of the flow rate setting. For instance if shows 20 LPM, you're actually getting 14 LPM. So to get a flow rate of 15 LPM of nitrogen with your flow meter you would need a flow rate of 21.43 on the argon flow meter.

Now, @emma99 what you're saying is that you get more nitrogen than the argon flow meter shows? So the justanswer.com expert is wrong? That's the thing I'm trying to establish, whether it's more or less, "by how much" is secondary at this point ;)

 

[emma99]

The more I read about argon-nitrogen conversions on this forum, the more confused I am. I found this page, it might have been posted before: https://www.justanswer.com/home-improvement/odmlx-inert-gas-experts-argon-flowmeter-i-ll.html

Looks like It's one of "our people" asking a similar question there. Guy who replied claims to have worked 30 years in welding and said this:


Now, @emma99 what you're saying is that you get more nitrogen than the argon flow meter shows? So the justanswer.com expert is wrong? That's the thing I'm trying to establish, whether it's more or less, "by how much" is secondary at this point ;)

Omg someone went to justanswer.com for help in CTB.

@chester i'm in the same boat as you.
I'm stuck between weather or not the flow meter is higher or lower than the correct reading
and if so by what factor.

Right now iv settled on the idea that I should multiply my intended usage by 1.2

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

There's probably no need to do a blackout test if you're confident the inert gas purity is high: I guess the pulse oximeter hooked up to your finger(as opposed to an oxygen sensor hooked up to the gas regulator) is handy for checking that your O2 levels are falling if you test the hood: It's...

sanctioned-suicide.net

However I still dont know who is right and who is wrong,
Iv seen the answer of a minus 80% reduction thrown around before
using the logic that Air is basically nitrogen,
and that Argon is 18% heavier than than air
and that Air is 2% heavier than nitrogen
Therefore argon is 20% heavier than Nitrogen

But if you think about it for a second.
weather or not Nitrogen is 20% or 30% lighter than Argon.
Pushing a lighter gas through a flow meter calibrated for a heavier gas
would mean that you would need a more gas to push the ball on the flowmeter.
Which would be that if the reading is 10LPM you are in actual fact using 20/30% more nitrogen
to get the same reading.

All i know for certain is the results of the two tests I ran
and until i see otherwise, i can only assume that everything
else is just some one on the internet giving their opinion

I really don't know either.
do let me know if your research shows up anything else.
I also found these two sources.

It appears someone asked this question on homebrewtalk

Using an argon flowmeter for nitrogen tank

I have a nitrogen cylinder and an oxygen regulator and argon flow-meter. I am wondering whether I will get an accurate reading of flow of gas per minute? Will the meter show an amount that is less or more than actual flow?

www.homebrewtalk.com

one of the comments includes a dead link but the comment states:

"
argon is a considerably heavier gas than nitrogen. I would think that the indicator is calibrated for the "thicker" gas. using nitrogen would indicate low IMHO.

looks like you would need to convert it
"

brooksinstrument.com talks about

Gas Correction Factors

and shows you how to perform conversions if your running Argon
out of an Air.Oxygen regulator. and includes this formula.



However they don't mention an argon regulator on a nitrogen tank

Gas Correction Factors | Brooks Instrument

Enjoy access to all of Brooks Instrument's sizing tools, including variable area sizing engines, mass flow sizing engines and gas correction factors.

www.brooksinstrument.com

 

[chester]

Omg someone went to justanswer.com for help in CTB.

@chester i'm in the same boat as you.
I'm stuck between weather or not the flow meter is higher or lower than the correct reading
and if so by what factor.

Right now iv settled on the idea that I should multiply my intended usage by 1.2

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

There's probably no need to do a blackout test if you're confident the inert gas purity is high: I guess the pulse oximeter hooked up to your finger(as opposed to an oxygen sensor hooked up to the gas regulator) is handy for checking that your O2 levels are falling if you test the hood: It's...

sanctioned-suicide.net

However I still dont know who is right and who is wrong,
Iv seen the answer of a minus 80% reduction thrown around before
using the logic that Air is basically nitrogen,
and that Argon is 18% heavier than than air
and that Air is 2% heavier than nitrogen
Therefore argon is 20% heavier than Nitrogen

All i know for certain is the results of the two tests I ran
and until i see otherwise, i can only assume that everything
else is just some one on the internet giving their opinion

I really don't know either.
do let me know if your research shows up anything else.

I think I'm gonna go with the 70% rule from justanswer and hope I have enough nitrogen in case it's the other way round. I've got an 8 liter, 200bar cylinder, already wasted between 30 and 40bar on leak testing and trial runs. It's supposed to contain 1600 liters when it's full, so hopefully, assuming the next time I follow through, I should have more than enough, even if the expert was wrong. I guess that's my safest bet at this point, given that I've got no reliable source of information and I'm too dumb to figure it out myself.

 

[kudaphillips]

I found Nitrogen Click Style Regulator CGA580 0-25L on alibaba
Similar to as in following picture
View attachment 146906
My question is "can i buy from there or are they low grade or maybe not calibrated properly?
As they a so much cheap then other listed on another sites

I think if there's a concern that flow meter isn't calibrated properly or accurate , you can just see how fast your exit bag fills up.Assuming it's standard turkey size oven bag , It it fills up under a minute , your prob in the 15 lpm range . If it' fills up in 30 seconds .. your in th 25 lpm plus range .You should be doing a test run anyway to make sure everything fills up correctly and it working .
Could also run multiple tanks /regulators to account for any leaks / rig failure

 

[Vishap]

Hello, I happen to have access to ultra-high purity inert gasses (Ar, N2, He). Is one better than the others? And also I was wondering if a bag is the best way or if I can kinda macguyver a cpap mask onto the pressure regulator? Apologies if this info is readily available elsewhere, I'm new to this site and forums in general.

 

[kudaphillips]

Hello, I happen to have access to ultra-high purity inert gasses (Ar, N2, He). Is one better than the others? And also I was wondering if a bag is the best way or if I can kinda macguyver a cpap mask onto the pressure regulator? Apologies if this info is readily available elsewhere, I'm new to this site and forums in general.

Don't do the cpap. Do exit bag , or if you're interested in exploring scuba and scba maybe peruse those threads and see if you prefer . If you are certain of the purity of the gases , most members here will rank in this order 1. Helium 2. Nitrogen 3. Argon. This ranking is due to the weight of the gases . They will say the lighter the gas the better it stays in the bag . My personal opinion in that they all would suffice at the proper flow rate . Keep in mind the flow rates will be different , find the proper conversion if you want to be exact .