But looks like it was purchased from Respiro? Or are they the same company? So someone at EI received their order. I'm wondering if they plan to use it soon or is it a just in case purchase?
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I did some research on Richard, he email address links to a company in Delaware that is the principal for Respiro out of Nevada. It seems to be selling the exact same product as R2D, and both distribute through RockIt, which then ships from BoxC out of China. Interesting thing about the Respiro site is that it sells other breathing products, but none of them are in stock except for the ReBreather. Also, supplemental oxygen products are recommended for the ReBreather, but Respiro does not sell them. Nor does the Respiro site have instructional videos. It is not marketed there at all as a euthanasia device.
I know it's marketed as a Rebreather so i thought when someone suggested that site that they were mistaking the products and i ignored it
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/n-gas-with-mask-didnt-work.37034/#post-687111
Hypoxia (OGHFA BN) | SKYbrary Aviation Safety
Background Hypoxia is a state of oxygen deficiency in the body sufficient to impair functions of the brain and other organs. Because of the nature of flight, flight crews are much more likely to suffer from hypoxia than “normal” people. Knowing what to look for and how to react to resolve the...www.skybrary.aero
Many more sources can be found that cross-verify a couple painless discomfort symptoms ...which vary greatly from individual to individual.
View attachment 32341
I'm sorry, I think I confused two piggy stories. This is the one I had in mind (w/ Helium not Nitrogen)
This was my comment some weeks ago (not about distress) : "I'm unsure what is observed to be convulsions. To me, it could simply look like disturbed / loss of coordination (another symptom of oxygen deprivation) during an escape behavior."
What Wikiedia comments (aviation source again) regarding inert gas aspxiation
View attachment 32342Inert gas asphyxiation - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Anyways, pigs don't matter...
View attachment 32343
States Turn to an Unproven Method of Execution: Nitrogen Gas (Published 2018)
As problems mount with lethal injection, Alabama, Mississippi and Oklahoma are developing protocols for using nitrogen to carry out the death penalty. Little science exists about the method.www.nytimes.com
(this is not the best quote + study referenced but more evidence agrees that mammals are not equal when it comes to Nitrogen euthanasia. Some support it really well while others don't)
Some species...not animals. There are a few animals that react badly to nitrogen because of their physiology. The species, 'people', have no issues. As for seizures? You are talking to an epileptic, and I assure you that I know nothing about them when they happen, or even after. Someone has to tell me. There are a lot of studies that have been done on nitrogen and people. As for helium? Manufacturers are required, in most countries, to include oxygen in the mix rendering it useless.
Mitty
Member
- Apr 19, 2020
- 16
Well, that sounds good ...I think? I mean, you would've thought they'd tried everything they could at making the mask as foolproof as possible with the first model considering how critical they are to the whole thing. But oh well, better late than never I guess :p
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Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
What does that mean? So, first they sell the ReBreather with a mask that now they say that is poor-fitting, and now they say that it's likely to be improved with a technology, which is not rocket science, that they already knew that existed. Why didn't they incorporate this well known technology, which is not rocket sciencie, in the first place?
Are we supposed to use a ReBreather version that themselves say that doesn't work well? And all of this only days after its launchment? It's not serious at all.
What did we order, and pay, the ReBreather for? Peaceful CTB or brain damage? Me, CTB.
If a patient ends in worse shape, what will be the cause? A slight chance of failure or, more likely, not incorporating by the promoters a well known, not expensive, not rocket sciencie technology? If there are masks that doesn't leak during sleep? Why didn't they incorporate them in the ReBreather? Expensive? I don't think so. Who wants to save money the day that he/she die?
As I said, it's not serious at all.
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Speak of the devil, and he shall appear!
I find myself chuckling a bit at what a shit show this ordering process has turned into, almost 3 months after they said it was supposed to be ready.
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
My mom is also an epileptic. I picked her up, drove and attended her stays at the hospital. I do know she feels nothing (except some subjective sensations like inexistent facial movements, tingling, losing balance) but have no understanding of what happens. I've verified it when the crisis are impressive in frequency and long lasting. The worst we went through when the treatment wasn't right spanned around 15h severely, every 10-15 minutes average, sometimes every 2-3 minutes during an hour. Exhausting ! She couldn't really eat anymore nor pee by herself. It was a relief when it stopped.
No suffering but really she was tensed all the time in between. It's weird because there's anticipation of losing control, even if it doesn't hurt. What I figured out is that the warning signs that an attack is coming led to the most anxiety. Really, it is all about the transitions because she often realizes it's about to shift.
She has only partial seizures so the movements are not as roomy as the ones the pig had. Actually, for her it is body torsions that end up holding, instead of shaking convulsions. I don't know how much freedom the ReBreather permits so I feel disabled to judge if it could cause interference.
This is my principal concern : which are the types of body movements to expect with the R2D ? What can be their intensity, when do they trigger and for how long ?
I'm half swiss who was living near Geneva since youth until 2012. There was a time when Dignitas was trying to push the acceptance of a peaceful euthanasia, by easing the laws to achieve N allowance without a doctor's approval. To reach this goal, in order to alert the opinion and make the public debate advance, Mr. Minelli, who is a lawyer, arranged lawful helium bag suicides, was filming them and sending the tapes to the administration to demonstrate that it is less dignified that a N death. Most importantly, it revealed that the suiciding person did not look always placid calm on the outside at the time of the trespassing (the feedback was enough to put my interest on hiatus back then). I wish to figure out this part.
I admit the "commit and don't look back in the rearview mirror" stance puts me off, when just the description of the R2D process varies between the commercial site and the PPH. It does indicate little conviction.
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enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
Less known, Dignitas also passed through a sulfurous reputation period, apart billing 10k CHF and not minding to collect heritages, made of crappy local, handling N to use in cars, helium bags.
Around 2007-2011
RTS is the french-speaking public TV-radio media. This is the auto-translation of Google
translate.google.com
Theorists of no commitment rings a bell. Also reminds me of mouth no trouser threads, raving at inert gases, insulting suspicions, but flying to Switzerland. I'm not a fan of illogicalities.
President of the western swiss pro-euthanasia org, not exactly a pro-lifer, comments
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.20minutes.fr/france/293675-20090127-dignitas-usine-a-suicide-entre-artisanat-travail-a-chaine
If the truth lies somewhere in the middle (let's accuse the prosecutor of exaggeration), I'd like to learn exactly where the cursor is.
Around 2007-2011
RTS is the french-speaking public TV-radio media. This is the auto-translation of Google
Des suicides à l'hélium proposés par Dignitas
L'organisation d'aide au suicide Dignitas a filmé certains de ses membres s'étouffant au moyen d'un sac en plastique rempli d'hélium. Le procureur zurichois Andreas Brunner tire la sonnette d'alarme.
Theorists of no commitment rings a bell. Also reminds me of mouth no trouser threads, raving at inert gases, insulting suspicions, but flying to Switzerland. I'm not a fan of illogicalities.
President of the western swiss pro-euthanasia org, not exactly a pro-lifer, comments
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.20minutes.fr/france/293675-20090127-dignitas-usine-a-suicide-entre-artisanat-travail-a-chaine
If the truth lies somewhere in the middle (let's accuse the prosecutor of exaggeration), I'd like to learn exactly where the cursor is.
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Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
I'm not expert, but I don't think the convulsions imply suffering, I think the problem, for us, for the Rebrather user, is that those convulsions might imply, I don't know, problems with the mask fitting.
I'm worried, because I'm willing to use the ReBreather.
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
Yes that's what I meant strictly. It's not a suffering talk but a safety one, addressing all situations, with a (close) guarantee of no exception, about injury prevention. Exit never gives disclaimers or too much details, shying away, so I prefer to disbelieve everything because we're kept in the dark, there are never nuances, just "either you live A or you die B"
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Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
Hasn't anybody received the ReBreather yet? There are people, from the first batch, who received the tracking number almost immediately.
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
Found deeper documentation of Dignitas' Helium suicides
Disclaimer : this is unlike the gradual mechanism of breathing air blocking outside O2+CO2, being administered Helium suddenly (exit bag) but through a closed face mask
The good news : no person attempted to remove the poor-fitting mask, none survived, there were "disconcerting purposeless movements" but at the extremities
Judge for yourself. Only read the summary for now.
Non-scientific article
www.bioedge.org
Study
www.researchgate.net
Disclaimer : this is unlike the gradual mechanism of breathing air blocking outside O2+CO2, being administered Helium suddenly (exit bag) but through a closed face mask
The good news : no person attempted to remove the poor-fitting mask, none survived, there were "disconcerting purposeless movements" but at the extremities
Judge for yourself. Only read the summary for now.
Non-scientific article
BioEdge: Helium suicides at Dignitas described in leading journal
Important statistics also available.
Study
(PDF) Assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation with helium at a Swiss right-to-die organisation
PDF | In Switzerland, right-to-die organisations assist their members with suicide by lethal drugs, usually barbiturates. One organisation, Dignitas,... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net
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GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
Found deeper documentation of Dignitas abrupt's Helium suicides
Disclaimer : this is unlike the mechanism of breathing air filtering CO2, being administered Helium (exit bag) but through a face mask (R2D similarity)
The good news : no person attempted to remove the poor-fitting mask, none survived, there were "disconcerting purposeless movements" but at the "extremities
Judge for yourself. Only read the summary for now.
Non-scientific article
View attachment 32536BioEdge: Helium suicides at Dignitas described in leading journal
Important statistics also available.
Study
View attachment 32534(PDF) Assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation with helium at a Swiss right-to-die organisation
PDF | In Switzerland, right-to-die organisations assist their members with suicide by lethal drugs, usually barbiturates. One organisation, Dignitas,... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
Neither document states whether they were conscious when they were gasping. That's important to know when determining if the method is peaceful.
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
The second document (research paper) has details at the bottom but haven't found time to read it.
I agree with you. The only idea I have of the sequence's order of symptoms are descriptions of the theory ...to oppose face to face to the ReBreather equipment testing covered by Exit (PPH), which talks of a 2% O2 drop per minute (and a "little discomfort" supposition, a way to tell nothing)
Here is a paper about a young adult who survived the helium bag, rescued just in time. No damage is mentioned for the recovery.
———————————-
For comparison purposes.
Here are extracts from the PPeH (april 2020) where the storytaling slightly differs from the R2D commercial website. I believe it is important to reveal the differences between sources so people don't get wrong expectations from relying on possibly simplified information.
merchant site, backed up today (4/22/2020)
Where we're at now : polished speech.
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@lmroch are you able to confirm the country of the recipient that received the debreather? And it appears that was purchased via respiro site and not r2d site.
Has anyone else received one?
Richard stated in his email that he was notifying approx 25 other people of the shipping company change... but i thought i heard (could be wrong) that there was 100 sold initially??
Has anyone else received one?
Richard stated in his email that he was notifying approx 25 other people of the shipping company change... but i thought i heard (could be wrong) that there was 100 sold initially??
The chance at nausea/vomiting has put me off entirely of this method, too bad , it sounded very promising. Same with gas it seems.
Csmith8827
Don't you listen to your heart? (Listen to it...)
- Oct 26, 2019
- 852
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
Here it says that poor mask fitting increases the time to achieve unconscioussness, first, and then death. But nothing else, it doesn't tell about permanent sequelae. So, I don't know why it's also said "Oxygen deprivation with a face maks is not acceptable because leaks are difficult to control and it may not eliminate rebreathing". When immediately it's said "These factors will extend time to unconsciousness and time to death". This is the important factor, if the poor mask-fitting only increases the time to unconsciousness and time to death that it's not a problems. A problem would be permanent sequelae.Found deeper documentation of Dignitas' Helium suicides
Disclaimer : this is unlike the gradual mechanism of breathing air blocking outside O2+CO2, being administered Helium suddenly (exit bag) but through a closed face mask
The good news : no person attempted to remove the poor-fitting mask, none survived, there were "disconcerting purposeless movements" but at the extremities
Judge for yourself. Only read the summary for now.
Non-scientific article
View attachment 32536BioEdge: Helium suicides at Dignitas described in leading journal
Important statistics also available.
Study
View attachment 32534(PDF) Assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation with helium at a Swiss right-to-die organisation
PDF | In Switzerland, right-to-die organisations assist their members with suicide by lethal drugs, usually barbiturates. One organisation, Dignitas,... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
LMLN
Paragon
- Aug 10, 2019
- 929
If it's something you are concerned about, you could fast beforehand...make sure your stomach is empty.
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
Yes, that's another important topic. I didn't know you can vomit. Is it necessary to fast? Does fasting reduces the chance of vomiting? Why don't Exit International advise to fast?
LMLN
Paragon
- Aug 10, 2019
- 929
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
They were unconscious well before. Both the prosecutor and the pro-choice doctor were in good part right. Unconsciousness happened in under a minute and could have triggered slightly quicker if their mask seal was perfect (hypothesis). To note, they believe that unconsciousness, based on visual observations (or "communication" interrupted - not responding to talk), is not a perfect duty to assess, but I'm hoping if their judgement was approximate, it's a matter of seconds (and they don't mean anything else).
Past this stage, there's some grim, but peacefulness is normally locked by now.
...this is representative of the Exit Bag method. Now I'm making a fundamental difference...
Regarding vomiting, here is one evidence with exit bag
I do NOT understand the last line. Why would you suffer if unconsciousness is reached after 10-12 seconds ? Would you retrieve some consciousness and choke ? Meh !
Based on the sorted onset of progressive hypoxia symptoms, I would believe that it's a rare minor discomfort concern because it will come last with the R2D, likely ...too late to realize ! Vomiting is generally mentioned a lot less ...than nausea
If by "gas" you meant "exit bag". I'd disapprove. If you want a close certitude to skip feeling sensations (bad ...or good), the exit bag seems the way to go.
They clearly explain there are 2 possible set of conditions to achieve the goals. One structure looks very close to the description of the R2D system, and the other one to the classic Exit Bag. Yet, they went just slightly in between (choice of a face mask somewhat imperfect - they found out, without a recycling mechanism ...their rebreathing dilemma was only about the fit)
My judgment is that they value the simple apparel of a hood (plastic bag) with proper gas flow flushing the gases out, as a robust design that shouldn't go wrong (less surprises = less worries). Their "complaint" about using a mask appears rhetorical because it did not have an impact in their cases, but they imagine it could eventually be a less fool proof setup than a hood. They try to explain it, as motivated but it is unclear if the concern is realistic (imho). The final word is they haven't tested a ReBreather unit... but I'm also not meaning they would have liked its bulkiness more, given the arguments. Just - can't - answer.
(Initially, the R2D is also not an oxygen free environnement. It's here to achieve it.)
6————-
The possibility of sequels is never brought about. They just clearly write that permanent brain damage will happen right before death. Consequently, same same than usual, a focus to eradicate rescuing should not be disregarded.
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LMLN
Paragon
- Aug 10, 2019
- 929
Wow, that was fast! I have a few more days to wait for mine.
I didn't expect it this week at all. I will update with more pictures soon. Tbh I am afraid to open it in case I mess it up. One thing - it has an expiry date on the front of the box it says "use by June 2023"
LMLN
Paragon
- Aug 10, 2019
- 929
Yes, this is because of the soda lime granules. It sounds like there is a way to replace them in the canisters.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
Did you order from the R2D site or from Respiro?
Was it delivered in an outer box that doesn't reveal the company name on the box or the label with the sender name?
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