DeBreather purchase, too good to be true?

[Notabadguy]

Well said Notabadguy. I believe that this method is viable, and will work well, assuming that there is a solid confidence in one's CBT decision, and in the method chosen; not to mention in the actual effectiveness of the technology itself. . Regarding all of the ordering problems, it's hard to imagine that things would go smoothly in the delivery process with all of the airline companies being impacted by the virus. With this said, I guess that I'm looking for a post that states that one's order and payment went smoothly, without a lot time, effort, and worry. I think we're all looking to hear that someone has actually received their unit.
On another note I saw a recent post from Richard regarding the shelf life of the Debreather, and one's ability to replace the soda lime if necessary while practicing with the mask, etc. It got me to wondering how someone would manage the "familiarization of the process" once the unit is opened, and the chosen mask is inflated? So you can store the unit indefinitely, but can the mask be inflated and deflated until the chosen time to use it? Just sayin.

If you open it, and you check that the mask fits you, I'd use it straight away. I woudn't manipulate anything. It's been made by people who have been doing research, I don't think the patient can improve it, except for the adhesive tape.

 

[Donk]

I'm beginning to wonder about the legitimacy of this product as I called US customs who has no record of receiving a shipment after providing the tracking number. The tracking number is not even remotely in the same format as used in the US. Can anyone elaborate if they have had similar experiences thus far?

go to this site for tracking

BoxC: International E-commerce Management Platform

Ship your products across the world while saving time and money.

www.boxc.com

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

If you open it, and you check that the mask fits you, I'd use it straight away. I woudn't manipulate anything. It's been made by people who have been doing research, I don't think the patient can improve it, except for the adhesive tape.

Some folks are going to need more than a few days to overcome anxiety. SI will be stronger and more difficult to overcome if one has to rush and cannot practice. Being made to unseal the entire unit including the mask was poor design imo.

@knowman, I would duct tape the seals on the canisters because I would want to take a significant amount of time to desensitize to the mask.

 

[HelensNepenthe]

go to this site for tracking

BoxC: International E-commerce Management Platform

Ship your products across the world while saving time and money.

www.boxc.com

DownToGo and I have talked in PM about this. There is no indication that our postal services have scanned it into customs. Packages should look like this when they're in customs.

 

[LMLN]

Some folks are going to need more than a few days to overcome anxiety. SI will be stronger and more difficult to overcome if one has to rush and cannot practice. Being made to unseal the entire unit including the mask was poor design imo.

@knowman, I would duct tape the seals on the canisters because I would want to take a significant amount of time to desensitize to the mask.

Yes, I'd would have liked the mask to have been packaged separately from the rest of the unit so that I could get familiar with it. The other thing I wonder, what happens if the unit is opened in customs? The unit will be no good for use when it arrives.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Yes, I'd would have liked the mask to have been packaged separately from the rest of the unit so that I could get familiar with it. The other thing I wonder, what happens if the unit is opened in customs? The unit will be no good for use when it arrives.

Buy more soda lime to replace the contents of the canisters.

 

[LMLN]

Buy more soda lime to replace the contents of the canisters.

I guess, would have been nice to avoid this hassle though, with the price paid.

 

[qwerty32]

I finally manage to put in an order for it. Those curious the s/h is charged separately from the debreather.

 

[Donk]

DownToGo and I have talked in PM about this. There is no indication that our postal services have scanned it into customs. Packages should look like this when they're in customs.

View attachment 32324

i think mine is still in China

I finally manage to put in an order for it. Those curious the s/h is charged separately from the debreather.

shipping is done by third vendor. i guess r2d doesnt want to take on the risk.

 

[Living sucks]

Another member shared a study in which one person who attempted kept taking off the mask. And in another thread,

Just to clarify, that study was from the first design that was abandoned. And furthermore, i was trying to find this study again to review it, BUT that particular account said the attempt was abandoned 4 times by the subject. At 6% O2 they were pulling the mask off, what they didn't report was, did this subject survive and if so, was their any sequalae? (Not sure i spelled that correctly) or did they end up passing? That frustrated me and i wanted to ask that question to see if they have an answer.

Like SN, it's going to take anecdotal accounts before we can have confidence in this method.

Unfortunately, this is going to be the case but getting those accounts will be tricky bcuz we'd have to see news reports of fatal attempts citing this device and the user would need to report non fatal attempts, IF they are still able to use their brain.[/QUOTE]

 

[LMLN]

Just to clarify, that study was from the first design that was abandoned. And furthermore, i was trying to find this study again to review it, BUT that particular account said the attempt was abandoned 4 times by the subject. At 6% O2 they were pulling the mask off, what they didn't report was, did this subject survive and if so, was their any sequalae? (Not sure i spelled that correctly) or did they end up passing? That frustrated me and i wanted to ask that question to see if they have an answer.



Unfortunately, this is going to be the case but getting those accounts will be tricky bcuz we'd have to see news reports of fatal attempts citing this device and the user would need to report non fatal attempts, IF they are still able to use their brain.

[/QUOTE]
I'm hoping that Exit will get more information soon and be able to report the findings.

 

[Living sucks]

DownToGo and I have talked in PM about this. There is no indication that our postal services have scanned it into customs. Packages should look like this when they're in customs.

View attachment 32324

Is the US even accepting any cargo from china? I know passenger flights are a problem but cargo flights should still be running? But idk

 

[LMLN]

Is the US even accepting any cargo from china? I know passenger flights are a problem but cargo flights should still be running? But idk

Yes, I believe so. I know my employer has been accepting shipments throughout the pandemic.

 

[enjolras]

I would say that at the moment we're not even sure it's peaceful. Another member shared a study in which one person who attempted kept taking off the mask. And in another thread, @enjolras shared information about hypoxia, it would be helpful if he shared it here, along with the source of that info. Like SN, it's going to take anecdotal accounts before we can have confidence in this method.

I did gather info, more or less matching, which I believe is valuable to define the "scope" of the expectations. Will try to share it in the next days. My own mind is pretty much set, until validated or contradicted by in-depth reports

Nevertheless, I became much much more reluctant that too far rehearsal from practice can be attempted with safety, without supervision. It looks a dangerous game to play. I don't think I would try it without someone watching over me, past just scratching the surface. To those who will receive the first units, please be cautious to not test your limits to satisfy an excess of curiosity, there can be a very insidious point of no return

 

[LMLN]

I did gather info, more or less matching, which I believe is valuable to define the "scope" of the expectations. Will try to share it in the next days. My own mind is pretty much set, until validated or contradicted by in-depth reports

Nevertheless, I became much much more reluctant that too far rehearsal from practice can be attempted with safety, without supervision. It looks a dangerous game to play. I don't think I would try it without someone watching over me, past just scratching the surface. To those who will receive the first units, please be cautious to not test your limits to satisfy an excess of curiosity, there can be a point of no return very much insidious

My thought is that the practice could be with the mask only. Mainly to test the seal. Once I'm sure I can achieve a good seal, only then would I attached it to the rest of the unit.

 

[Living sucks]

Some folks are going to need more than a few days to overcome anxiety. SI will be stronger and more difficult to overcome if one has to rush and cannot practice. Being made to unseal the entire unit including the mask was poor design imo.

@knowman, I would duct tape the seals on the canisters because I would want to take a significant amount of time to desensitize to the mask.

As GPF said, you can open the bag take out the masks, and reseal the bag like R2D has indicated and have all the time you need desensitizing with the mask and ensure it fits properly etc. however if you do not plan to use it for several months or years, i would suggest finding a way to secure the masks, ie air tight bag or other method so they don't get damaged. I think it should not take more than a few hours to get the mask correct. It's the feeling comfortable with it to not panic that might take longer for most people.

I finally manage to put in an order for it. Those curious the s/h is charged separately from the debreather.

Yesterday a member @truthseeker tried ordering and got stuck in a loop at the end that never resolved. You had no issue with the purchase today?

 

[Donk]

in the mean time, it might be a good idea to put on a cpap mask to get a sense of how it feels having a mask on.

 

[enjolras]

My thought is that the practice could be with the mask only. Mainly to test the seal. Once I'm sure I can achieve a good seal, only then would I attached it to the rest of the unit.

That's one of the stance. Otherwise, for those who will want to get a taste of the more advanced feeling and personal reaction, it really needs the assistance of a 3rd party, trained to interrupt the procedure at the right moment, then only it can be done deep imho. Or if you're more adventurous, buy an oxymeter medical device and be really attentive to the measurement drops, reacting too early rather than too late. But really I'm not too tempted to dare the stunt, I would prefer to try it in tandem

 

[LMLN]

That's one of the stance. Otherwise, for those who will want to get a taste of the more advanced feeling and personal reaction, it really needs the assistance of a 3rd party, trained to interrupt the procedure at the right moment, then only it can be done deep imho. Or if you're more adventurous, buy an oxymeter medical device and be really attentive to the measurement drops, reacting too early rather than too late. But really I'm not too tempted to dare the stunt, I would prefer to try it in tandem

I don't have anybody that would help me with this. I agree, it would be ideal if someone would observe and intervene.

 

[enjolras]

Just to clarify, that study was from the first design that was abandoned. And furthermore, i was trying to find this study again to review it, BUT that particular account said the attempt was abandoned 4 times by the subject. At 6% O2 they were pulling the mask off, what they didn't report was, did this subject survive and if so, was their any sequalae? (Not sure i spelled that correctly) or did they end up passing? That frustrated me and i wanted to ask that question to see if they have an answer.

That person survived, it was the only survival of the study. No sequel is mentioned. My intimate opinion is that she went through SI unprepared to feel some uncommon symptoms eventually, but that is just an assumption. Imho, this is one plausible rare scenario, whose impact could be diminished or overriden by prior knowledge and mental preparation (if there is determination) ...but that might not be that simple always, cause you also can turn like a mindless dumb potato early. Maybe some could not think straight enough to avoid reflexes against a pre-defined will. I'm left wondering but I can totally imagine it now
I found some new info which confirms that the loss of consciousness can possibly occur closer to 6% than 12% (R2D site) so I'm no longer surprised the person was conscious that far

 

[BaronVon]

@BaronVon, I agree with @Notabadguy about confidence in recovery. Do you have any sources that support this confidence? It would be helpful information to share if you or anyone else has such sources.

I would assume it would recoverable as the main issue if failure, would be a mask or system that was not air tight , i feel the person would have the intelligence to realise after a certain time that there was a malfunction in the system and remove to rectify or revaluate

 

[Living sucks]

I would assume it would recoverable as the main issue if failure, would be a mask or system that was not air tight , i feel the person would have the intelligence to realise after a certain time that there was a malfunction in the system and remove to rectify or revaluate

But if the malfunction of the mask happens AFTER you pass out due to relaxation of facial muscles you may lay there unconscious still breathing low amounts of O2 and could be found after a few hours. This is the fear. If you don't pass out and have the intelligence wits about you after several mins then there is truly a large malfunction to the seal.

 

[Donk]

But if the malfunction of the mask happens tAFTER you pass out due to relaxation of facial muscles you may lay there unconscious still breathing low amounts of O2 and could be found after a few hours. This is the fear. If you don't pass out and have the intelligence wits about you after several mins then there is truly a large malfunction to the seal.

i remember reading in the manual that you should relax your facial muscles when trying on the mask. use the air injector and make sure the mask is on really tight. im more concern with me taking off the mask when im unconcious.

 

[gus.nixon]

It's back in stock

 

[LMLN]

i remember reading in the manual that you should relax your facial muscles when trying on the mask. use the air injector and make sure the mask is on really tight. im more concern with me taking off the mask when im unconcious.

I hope if I'm properly passed out I won't be able to remove the mask. Hopefully if there are no leaks, there will be no possibilty of moving.

 

[enjolras]

Unfortunately, this is going to be the case but getting those accounts will be tricky bcuz we'd have to see news reports of fatal attempts citing this device and the user would need to report non fatal attempts, IF they are still able to use their brain.

Correct. If members are gonna try to type at SS, up to the last minute like they sometimes do with SN, it will be incomplete reports, truncating the complete picture. I believe they may be able to communicate the best part (IF they manage to, it remains to be proven until when they can perform on their own impulse without being directed), rendering it as enviable potentially, separating away from the part where it could go sensitively downhill, like meeting more symptoms (that failure at 6% O2 fighting), and the final outcome with issues. I don't think it will carry full value, maybe even misrepresent .

A man writing his address normally


Now under hypoxia from the decompression chamber. He just stops writing. And that's not too late in the process, still aware when feeling internalised happiness




Interesting to note : "exposed to air at a third of the amount of oxygen" , so approx. ~7% (important target) which makes it a matching documentation, if only more abrupt than with the ReBreather (symptoms will have more time to install themselves, may be more gentle from the acclimatation ?). Still, the volunteer has a good amount of time in front of him : this is not the Exit bag

Note the symptoms revealed : tingling in hands (one of the rare ones, we'll see later), light headedness (common), gradual impairment at performing basic tasks and responding to stimulus - vocal orders (common, not measured by the person), paleness, euphoria (felt - great way to leave the world)

This video is even more self-explanatory : wise alert chap turns as a baby child or senile man regarding abilities and reactions.



Ideally, these look like the best conditions with no discomfort symptoms objectively felt, quite the opposite, with the simple joy to go as an unaware mentally retarded person.
But they're to be nuanced. Not everyone will respond this way according to the documentation available to airline pilots, which insists that the developing symptoms can vary markedly from one person to another.

However, the slippery slope is clear that it can become out of control. If something were to go wrong at an advanced stage (i.e. generalised convulsion is possible), catching you between a rock and a hard place, without the conscious power to fix it for some time, I believe it's the reason why the injury risk should not be entirely regarded as null with this method.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I would assume it would recoverable as the main issue if failure, would be a mask or system that was not air tight , i feel the person would have the intelligence to realise after a certain time that there was a malfunction in the system and remove to rectify or revaluate

I hear what you're saying, but, respectfully, I don't see how that relates to confidence in physical recovery.

Edit: @enjolras posted as I was typing. It seems that coginition is affected by hypoxia.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Correct. If members are gonna try to type at SS, up to the last minute like they sometimes do with SN, it will be incomplete reports, truncating the complete picture. I believe they may be able to communicate the best part (IF they manage to, it remains to be proven until when they can perform on their own impulse without being directed), rendering it as enviable potentially, separating away from the part where it could go sensitively downhill, like meeting more symptoms (that failure at 6% O2 fighting), and the final outcome with issues. I don't think it will carry full value, maybe even misrepresent .

A man writing his address normally
View attachment 32334

Now under hypoxia from the decompression chamber. He just stops writing. And that's not too late in the process, still aware when feeling internalised happiness
View attachment 32337



Interesting to note : "exposed to air at a third of the amount of oxygen" , so approx. ~7% (important target) which makes it a matching documentation, if only more abrupt than with the ReBreather (symptoms will have more time to install themselves, may be more gentle from the acclimatation ?). Still, the volunteer has a good amount of time in front of him : this is not the Exit bag

Note the symptoms revealed : tingling in hands (one of the rare ones, we'll see later), light headedness (common), gradual impairment at performing basic tasks and responding to stimulus - vocal orders (common, not measured by the person), paleness, euphoria (felt - great way to leave the world)

This video is even more self-explanatory : wise alert chap turns as a baby child or senile man regarding abilities and reactions.



Ideally, these look like the best conditions with no discomfort symptoms objectively felt, quite the opposite, with the simple joy to go as an unaware retarded person.
But they're to be nuanced. Not everyone will respond this way according to the documentation available to airline pilots, which insists that the developing symptoms can vary markedly from one person to another.

However, the slippery slope is clear that it can become out of control. If something were to go wrong at an advanced stage (i.e. generalised convulsion is possible), catching you between a rock and a hard place, without the conscious power to fix it for some time, I believe it's the reason why the injury risk should not be entirely regarded as null with this method.

In the debreather you are breathing in a pure nitrogen atmosphere as in an exit bag .This video shows death by nitrogen inhalation is completely painLess.

 

[enjolras]

@peacefullpainless The 2nd video is an extract from your documentary, which from memory also contains the pig one stunned distressed (talked about it today on the side thread you were at) but not relevant.

All the aviation documentation I consulted confirms the lack of pain, I confirm you ! But not entire peacefulness at all times... which is going through a list of discomfort (or stressful) symptoms as a possibility

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

@peacefullpainless The 2nd video is an extract from your documentary, which from memory also contains the pig one stunned distressed (talked about it today on side thread) but not relevant.

All the aviation documentation I consulted confirms the lack of pain, I confirm you ! But not entire peacefulness at all times... which is going through a list of discomfort or stressful symptoms as a possibility

In this video the pig is not distressed . They set food under a nitrogen tent. The pig goes in under the Nitrogen tent to feed and passes out. The pig then awakens after falling away from under the nitrogen . Then the pig goes right back to feeding under the nitrogen tent showing it felt no discomfort nor distress at all. The pig never went back to feed under the co2 tent and avoided it like the plague. It's co2 that causes extreme discomfort, urge to breathe and distress not Nitrogen. The whole video should be watched in its entirety. The whole video shows incontrovertible evidence that the Nitrogen method is completely painless.