Every method that deprives the brain from oxygen can cause brain damage.
Every method that deprives the brain from oxygen can cause brain damage.
Got it. So do not attempt unless a million percent positive you're not going to rip it off your head. Damn my SI is on high alert just researching. I'm screwed for implementation
I agree. This could be a real problem. The research indeed. You can't practice unless you are very sure that you're ready to use it in 3-5 days. Or that is, unless you trust that you can safely re-seal it. For some this increased anxiety could contribute to mental health issues that brought one to use the Debreather in the first place. I look forward to hearing any feedback on this.
Overnoutofhere
Member
- Mar 30, 2020
- 52
Donk
Useless since day 1
- Jan 3, 2020
- 1,129
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
I have a feeling it will end up at similar grounds than SN regarding consistency. I mean, vastly peaceful for most everyone, but some will still react differently on a case to case basis.
Where we're at now : the current website speech is very polished. These are the extracted claims, summed up briefly :
* unconsciousness within minutes
* peaceful, painless and dignified death in 10-15 minutes.
* lose consciousness if oxygen concentration <12%
* depending on the respiration rate, unconsciousness within 2-3 minutes
* no shortness of breath, no panic, not any concern
* death to trigger when oxygen <7%
It sounds fantastically dream-like at this stage, but I regret slick and optimistic to encourage sales, out of unknowingly "not caring enough" like another member might say, through an intended act of simplification
If I only compare these claims to the past DeBreather monitored experiences (1999), there are annoyances to spot.
Mean and extreme time to death higher than 10-15 minutes, but 25 minutes average must be pessimistic due to the poor airtight mask seals in "nearly all cases" back at the period. Same goes for the large variability. If 10-15 minutes reveals itself to be close enough (+/-5 minutes) to the correct range, continuous perfect seal is key (right pressure applied by extra attachments for safety ...I agree about this consensus)
Looking at the the only chart available, 5+ minutes to reach 12% 02 may be as well plausible as 2-3, which could go well along the "depending on respiration rate" comment of Richard. What if you react below (pink frame) ? Some more minutes
The isolated 12% O2 reference of Richard is not a number to memorise. There could be a variety of threshold levels below triggering unconsciousness, depending on the person's physiological response
About the 3rd case, "fighting mask at ~6% O2", how come ? Thought you were supposed to be unconscious at 12% O2 and about dead below 7%. According to the R2D site, it should have been impossible. That's because the theory is different (see above)
Another case (7th/9), describes a "perfect death - observer very pleased". It only goes to show the many possibilities. For many, not all, it could go flawlessly.
Regarding symptoms, the below experimenter makes descriptions of "light headed", "dizziness", "seeing stars after blackout", overall vastly peaceful.
Will it be close to a flat experience of "no nothing" perfection (Richard's version) every single time ? Time will tell
Until we get a database of death observations like SN, with specifications, every info should be taken with a grain of salt.
Where we're at now : the current website speech is very polished. These are the extracted claims, summed up briefly :
* unconsciousness within minutes
* peaceful, painless and dignified death in 10-15 minutes.
* lose consciousness if oxygen concentration <12%
* depending on the respiration rate, unconsciousness within 2-3 minutes
* no shortness of breath, no panic, not any concern
* death to trigger when oxygen <7%
It sounds fantastically dream-like at this stage, but I regret slick and optimistic to encourage sales, out of unknowingly "not caring enough" like another member might say, through an intended act of simplification
If I only compare these claims to the past DeBreather monitored experiences (1999), there are annoyances to spot.
Mean and extreme time to death higher than 10-15 minutes, but 25 minutes average must be pessimistic due to the poor airtight mask seals in "nearly all cases" back at the period. Same goes for the large variability. If 10-15 minutes reveals itself to be close enough (+/-5 minutes) to the correct range, continuous perfect seal is key (right pressure applied by extra attachments for safety ...I agree about this consensus)
Looking at the the only chart available, 5+ minutes to reach 12% 02 may be as well plausible as 2-3, which could go well along the "depending on respiration rate" comment of Richard. What if you react below (pink frame) ? Some more minutes
The isolated 12% O2 reference of Richard is not a number to memorise. There could be a variety of threshold levels below triggering unconsciousness, depending on the person's physiological response
About the 3rd case, "fighting mask at ~6% O2", how come ? Thought you were supposed to be unconscious at 12% O2 and about dead below 7%. According to the R2D site, it should have been impossible. That's because the theory is different (see above)
Another case (7th/9), describes a "perfect death - observer very pleased". It only goes to show the many possibilities. For many, not all, it could go flawlessly.
Regarding symptoms, the below experimenter makes descriptions of "light headed", "dizziness", "seeing stars after blackout", overall vastly peaceful.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...chke-is-selling-soon.31318/page-3#post-641324
We've seen before that theorical disturbed respiration (confirmed breathing increase, gasps practically) could happen around the +/-12%, mark, eventually before unconsciousness (6-10%)Will it be close to a flat experience of "no nothing" perfection (Richard's version) every single time ? Time will tell
Until we get a database of death observations like SN, with specifications, every info should be taken with a grain of salt.
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LMLN
Paragon
- Aug 10, 2019
- 929
I think the key is the mask. Hopefully they have improved on the design to the point where there are no leaks. If I try the mask and cannot get a good seal that I can be confident in, I'll go on to my plan B.
Trump helped Richard with marketing. I hear Richard is going to be selected as his next infectious disease expert.
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
My purchases of the ReBreather and the shipment have been cancelled without request on my behalf. The money has been returned into my bank account. It seems imposible to get this device. What can I do? Did this happen to someone else?
Could someone give me the link of Rocket Express, please? There are several companies called this name, and I want to write to the correct one.
Could someone give me the link of Rocket Express, please? There are several companies called this name, and I want to write to the correct one.
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enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
Don't get it. Didn't you order twice, first via card the previous week, then PayPal this week ? Did you get both orders canceled / returned if you don't mind being asked ?
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
The first one was never effective (credit card). The second one was paid through PayPal, now they returned me the money, so currently I have no order. Ordering this device is extremely difficult. I don't know what to do.
Donk
Useless since day 1
- Jan 3, 2020
- 1,129
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
No, I've just seen in my bank account. And immediately I emailed Richard but I don't have an answer yet. I don't know what else to do.
pane
Hollow
- Apr 29, 2019
- 358
I emailed Richard Avocet about soda lime degrading if the Rebreather is left out of the packaging for longer than 3-5 days. He allowed me to quote his reply in full:
ME:
"Hello Mr. Avocet,
Can the canisters that hold the soda lime granules be opened and filled with new soda lime if necessary?
I ask because the Rebreather instructions advise to seal the plastic packaging (if opened for practice/familiarization) no later than 3-5 days after opening to prevent degradation of the granules. If the canisters can be opened and refilled this would of course obviate the need for resealing the packaging and allow the user to practice as much as he wants while maintaining the potency of the soda lime."
MR. AVOCET:
"Pane--
Of course, you are absolutely correct. And I often explain to people that they can easily replace the soda lime if needed. I plan to produce a video this summer that will demonstrate how easily this can be accomplished. The canisters are sealed with tape, which can be easily replaced, and the soda lime granules are readily available online.
It's a 10-15 minute job requiring no special tools or skills. In this context, the true shelf-life of the ReBreather is really unlimited. As with a flashlight--it basically lasts forever so long as when the time comes to use it you've got fresh batteries (and a spare bulb).
Thanks for writing. Feel free to ask questions at any time--I'm happy to respond.
Best regards,
Richard"
ME:
"Hello Mr. Avocet,
Can the canisters that hold the soda lime granules be opened and filled with new soda lime if necessary?
I ask because the Rebreather instructions advise to seal the plastic packaging (if opened for practice/familiarization) no later than 3-5 days after opening to prevent degradation of the granules. If the canisters can be opened and refilled this would of course obviate the need for resealing the packaging and allow the user to practice as much as he wants while maintaining the potency of the soda lime."
MR. AVOCET:
"Pane--
Of course, you are absolutely correct. And I often explain to people that they can easily replace the soda lime if needed. I plan to produce a video this summer that will demonstrate how easily this can be accomplished. The canisters are sealed with tape, which can be easily replaced, and the soda lime granules are readily available online.
It's a 10-15 minute job requiring no special tools or skills. In this context, the true shelf-life of the ReBreather is really unlimited. As with a flashlight--it basically lasts forever so long as when the time comes to use it you've got fresh batteries (and a spare bulb).
Thanks for writing. Feel free to ask questions at any time--I'm happy to respond.
Best regards,
Richard"
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
@pane, this was good information, I appreciate that you shared.
I'm curious as to how long it took him to respond to you.
I ask because many users report here that they've sent inquiries about purchasing and shipping issues and, as far as I can tell, haven't received responses.
I'm curious as to how long it took him to respond to you.
I ask because many users report here that they've sent inquiries about purchasing and shipping issues and, as far as I can tell, haven't received responses.
Donk
Useless since day 1
- Jan 3, 2020
- 1,129
fyi since no one is answering questions in the other thread. i took the initiative to email richard with those questions. i'll provide an update when i get a response from him.
I think and this is speculation, they oversold quantity on hand and had to refund until they have more ready to go. The message when you click to buy says they are out of stock and check back in a few days.
I think this, bcuz it states that when you purchase the DB it becomes your property and thus your responsibility as owner to arrange shipment. Therefore if they have your payment but no physical product that now belongs to you, it's a legal issue maybe?
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
I don't know, maybe you're right, what I do know it's that it's being extremely difficult to order the ReBreather.
TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
(PDF) Ogden, R. D (2010). The debreather: A report on euthanasia and suicide assistance using adapted scuba technology. Death Studies, 34, 291-317
PDF | In response to the general prohibition of euthanasia and assisted suicide, some right-to-die activists have developed non-medical methods to... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net
enjolras
Dead are useless if not to love the living more
- Feb 13, 2020
- 1,293
Bravo, he has not programmed obsolescence by design nor retaining info !
Soda lime granules are cheap. Would their quality grade matter to filter O2 ? Maybe he can recommend where to source the original ones ? or dress a list of "validated" vendors to pick from, for everyone's convenience
This is very good news, in order to rehearse and built confidence. I can see how getting assistance from a third party could be put to good use. If wanting to push the experience far, up to going through disabling symptoms (loss of reasoning and reactions to stimulus including talks, lack of body coordination to remove the mask), a 3rd party observing the scene with objectivity can intervene before it's too late and without sequels.
It turns out as a commercial law matter, regulated by international and national conducts ...normally. Since the site doesn't publish any terms (legal, sales agreement), nor contact info for tracking and to file an official dispute, ultimately we're at the mercy of the decisions with anticipation
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TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
Alrighty folks. I've studied the ReBreather (or DeBreather as many have named it for some reason unknown to man/woman) and am building my own version. I ordered the soda lime - easy to get medical quality - and ordered an aquarium CO2 scrubber cylinder and inflatable CPR bladder from eBay which, when combined with my CPAP mask - with vent holes sealed - completes the setup. It's so damn easy and since my soda line pellets are sealed when shipped I'm ready whenever to load them and go to my maker. The only issues I have found with people using this method are vomiting due to oxygen deprivation and mask issues. Since I'm strapping a well-tightened CPAP mask and won't have eaten anything for 24 hours prior to initiating the method I'm feeling confident you'll all be reading posts from other members and no more from me ...... I'll try and post some picks of my setup if anyone is interested. Wishing you all the best in whatever you decide. TT
Thanks. Would love to see some pics and assembly instructions. May I ask where it is you have experience of others vomitting etc? Please include as much info as poss, it all feel too good to be true, diy or otherwise.
A question. How long do you estimate hypoxia to begin working with this device? It's obviously slower than a fighter pilot. Also, under what conditions would you abort the attempt? Thanks a lot.
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TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
Vomiting potential see journal publication in my previous post. It's not too good to be true .... again see journal publication. If mask seals as expected I'm guessing +/- 15 minutes. Not really considering aborting ..... until I've started the process it's difficult to assess what unforeseen conditions might lead me to abort. I forgot to mention that I also bought an inline filter, like what avid CPAP users install to super clean the air in their hoses and also what is used inline on anesthesia circuits (use term to search eBay for picture/info as several sellers offer the circuits). Example:
\ PORTEX Adult Disposable Anesthesia Breathing Circuit 3L Breathing Bag 370924 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for \ PORTEX Adult Disposable Anesthesia Breathing Circuit 3L Breathing Bag 370924 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
SO the setup is simple and just like the ReBreather..... mask - hose - filter - cylinder with soda lime and course filter media at each end - expandable bag at outlet of cylinder. The aquarium cylinder I bought has a tube that takes the air coming in to the other end of cylinder so it has to pass through the full length of soda lime before exiting into the expandable bag. The air flows all the way through the soda lime again although obviously the opposite direction when breathing back. It's important to provide lots of opportunity for the air to pass through the soda lime granules or "channelling" can occur where the air doesn't come in contact with enough granules to sufficiently absorb the CO2.
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
What do you think about the fact that the Rebreather is rated 6/10, regarding efectiveness, in the PPH? Aren' you worried about it? I'm trying to purchase this device (what seems imposible to me), but the truth is that I'm worried about it. I mean, if a failed attempt can end up in brain damage (which I don't know, I'm only based upon the opinions that peopel exposed in this thread), is not 6/10 a poor rate? I mean, they say in the PPH that there aren't still enough cases to make an accurate rate, but, if the mask has been improved, what is the problem? what could go wrong?
It hasn't been tested, and documented in a real life situation. That concerned me also. I want to go to sleep like they say. Not go into panic and be partially brain damaged and alive
I wonder if they'd like a real life case study... volunteers???
I wonder if they'd like a real life case study... volunteers???
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
But they don't have either accurate data regarding the other methods. I mean, they make their effectiveness rates upon impressions, it has to be this way, it's impossible to, for example, count successes and failures regarding SN or whatever other method. And, still, they rate the Rebreather only with 6/10. On the other hand, I doubt that they'd be promoting a device that doesn't work. But it strikes to me as a contradiction, on one hand, rating 6/10, on the other one, promoting the device.
Im sure exit has to have members who would be test subjects for this? But honestly i wouldn't be the first volunteer, if all went ok with the first one then I'd take second. But i think the rating is coming from the real life situations with the first model that they had to hold the mask on to complete the process.
Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
The device is supposed to work without help of another person holding the mask, so these cases shouldn't be taken into account.
TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
All good points ..... hard to argue ..... who wants to end up Vegemite ...... no one ...... still going forward with mine; however, I would point out a side observation regarding their design. Looks like a fairly bulky hunk of PVC (or PVC-like) fittings right at the mask connection followed by the three sections of pipe, which will hold a fair amount of breath volume before the exhaled air reaches the granules. If you look at masks used for anesthesia, CPAPs, and other devices you don't generally see that much bulk at the mask because it can/does affect positioning. IMHO, ir would be better for them to use a single or double hose at the mask and trifurcate/bifurcate nearer the soda lime canisters. Will be interested to see if PPH's rating increases to that of SN and others in a year or two once reported uses are more fully documented. No matter what we choose, the body is a stubborn thing to terminate and has lots of mental/biological backup plans to keep itself alive. While it's obviously very very important to feel confident in the CTB method one chooses, at some point a person needs to recognize that being too afraid to choose anything may indicate the need to reconsider whether envisioning CTB-ing is just a fantasy/outlet (nothing wrong with that) or a firm decision.
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Notabadguy
Mage
- Feb 7, 2020
- 576
In a year or two I don't think the ReBreather will be even legal. I think that works, but it's only a impression, I don't know, but the fact that the rate is only 6/10 PPH, despite I suppose is too cautelous, worries me. And I'm trying to purchase the device, because it seems a peaceful and secure way to go, but it's natural to be worried, since the failure can be very bad. And I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I'm only trying to generate discussion.
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