Method Carbon monoxide megathread

[Joannf]

Here's the first installment of Part Two, of "How do I make a tent airtight?" - but I got only part of the stuff I needed today, so let's see... I explained how to seal a tent with acrylic paint spray, but it's usually easier to drape a giant plastic foil over the inner tent from above, wrap it tight downwards over the entire inner tent and under the tent floor on all four sides, cut an entry (that you can later seal again from inside)... then finish the normal tent-building up with the outer tent.
You get foils from amazon and at homeworker places, but if you can't get them in a sufficient size, buy large trash bags. Lay them out besides each other and connect them with duct tape. This is a job for patient people, as the duct tape is very sticky and way tougher than the thin foil of the bags... the bags and tape can be seen on shot one and three. Any questions ?
The foil you need to create by this method should be about 4 by 4 meters, for a small 1-3 persons tent, but it really depends on what sort of tent you have.

Shot one also shows a container I just bought... it's ideal for mixing acids. This is for about 10 l formic and 10 l sulfuric, which should fill it to about a third...but I will explain that elsewhen. So I have about one liter each for one cubic meter - do you guys think that'll be enough ??
Shot 2 shows the aluminum trays I use for igniting my bricks in, each one will take about one kg of coals max, they are always very handy to have under the circumstances - not just for igniting the coals. The 4th shot is a suggestion for simple, relaxing mood-enhancers, these will also lend you plausibility in case people are watching your machinations. Don't forget to bring the veggie burgers !
Shot five is yesterday's sunset. Always only talking about death is boring.

 

[Thelastanon24]

Almost there guys.

 

[Bok]

Good luck lastanon!

 

[Joannf]

Here's what you need for the controlled ignition of coal briquettes... as you can see that's obviously coals, trays, some sort of grid to hold the coals at a distance, wood pellets, paraffin firestarters, fire tongs (or something similar). You should also have vegetable oil, maybe two bottles, and one of denaturated alcohol
You arrange what I call "Jojo's Napalm" the way you can see in the pictures... pellets about 3/4 inch high... they are there to create a temperature high enough to ignite the coals, which firestarters alone would not do, for a long-enough period of time. 15 minutes or more.
The procedure is like this, you douse the pellets with some oil, then add the firestarters as shown, then add the coals on the grid (what you see here, on half the tray, is abt 400 grams of coals, more would be less), then you douse the stuff with some alcohol from above and ignite it - what with oil and alcohol, the flames should spread fast and equally, which is important. Wind is your enemy...
Watch the fire, you will have to add more oil and rearrange the briqs, and finally turn them, so they become equally grey. Some may become grey after 15 minutes, from below, so you turn them... you get the idea. Obviously, this method is more complex than the chimney starter one, and you will only get 800 grams of coals from each tray. Instead of these trays, you can use portable grills which at least come woth a fitting metal grid... and this is actually the only way to fire these portables up in a reasonable manner, don't believe the hype on the packages - it doesn't work ;)
Use more pellets if you can... you want the briqs to become grey from both sides within 35 minutes max, and have them inside your exit chamber at 40, It's okay if some still show flames and some smoke, this will soon subside... you can of course also use several chimney starters, the problem begins whenyou start stapling coals... don't do it. The important thing is really to give the coals a chance o turn grey uniformly, so you can harvest as much CO in the time till they turn to ash - which is only 20-30 minutes. You should be able to fire up to six of these trays at the same time... more will be hard to supervise.
Oh yes - make sure that you room, tent or car is air tight. use plastic foils or other methods to assure air tightness - I explained about tents - in cars, that would mean one large foil for each door, larger than the door itself... wait.
I'll try for another shot... whoa that was hot ! Need to refill the AC. I only had the trash bags, and one of them is not enough... have to connect two of those with duct tape for most car doors, especially trucks - see photo 3. What you do is simply drape it over the *entire* door, everything that opens, from inside, maybe fix it a bit with ta[e and then carefully close it, this way all the unknown insecurities hidden within the door and window mechanisms are taken care of, as the door/frame themselves are usally very tight...
Now think about the space from top of the dashboard to the pedals, there's several openinhs there that you cannot see... so if you want o be sure, cover that area as well and do your business on the back seat. As in, "True Romance," and have a nice trip. You are now FREE ! But don't forget to close the sunroof ;))

 

[Bok]

Hi Joannf! Love your work. Hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. The production of co comes from the coals that are covered with ash which reducing the availability of oxygen to allow for proper combustion? Producing co as opposed to co2 is this correct?
Is it possible to pre collect co using the gulp machine , by inflating quality bags and saving them for later use. Because you are in a focused state of mind and not trying to catch the bus. You would be better positioned to control the mixing of acids , the filtering though water and the volumes produced ? You could later puncture these bags in small area while using coal method ? Is there any merit in this?

 

[Joannf]

Hi Joannf! Love your work. Hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. The production of co comes from the coals that are covered with ash which reducing the availability of oxygen to allow for proper combustion? Producing co as opposed to co2 is this correct?
Is it possible to pre collect co using the gulp machine , by inflating quality bags and saving them for later use. Because you are in a focused state of mind and not trying to catch the bus. You would be better positioned to control the mixing of acids , the filtering though water and the volumes produced ? You could later puncture these bags in small area while using coal method ? Is there any merit in this?

The CO comes from glowing coals (or basically from stuff burning with a yellow-red flame, but glowing is ideal and emits no smoke), the ash cover will just prove that the burning process under high oxygen consumption, with flames, has ended... and proceeds under low oxygen consumption towards the center of the coal.
Coals (charcoal, anthracite coal etc.) are as such bad burners and tend more towards glowing,they need a high starting temp and are very carbon-rich.
I must to my great embarrassment admit that I'm ignorant about what the gulp machine is.
I would, if I wanted to exclusively use coals, employ the tray method and use four trays at a go, pour the grey/glowing coals into a safe metal receptacle and transport them into my safe, airtight room, then repeat the process twice more.
Assuming that this would add about 2500ppm to the room each (likely 3500. but I have to open the door - in my experience, that will let about 10% of the CO escape if you do it gently - I would thus accumulate 7500ppm (but more likely abt. 9000). while I wouldn't be afraid to use 4500ppm if no more could be reached. I would, the 2nd and 3rd time, enter the room with a standard gas mask that uses, ironically, a coal filter, this will let one breathe long enough to do what needs be done, though holding my breath would likely serve...
This already answers your question in part, but is unfortunately not a method many here on the forum can employ, for logistical reasons - they all look for offshore solutions. The bags had occurred to me and I had already begun to search for some, and this is indeed a very rational approach to the matter - but you know, if I learned one thing testing the fitering process for the acid method, it was that there are always imponderabilities, questions nobody can answer and fear of leakages... so as I'm in a comparatively comfortable situation with an ideal room for the purpose, I wouldn't want to put my trust in th providers of high-quality sealable plastic sacks (though I found that these exist, but unfortunately never saved any urls). The most challenging part with the charcoal method would be to channel the gas - while that seems to be not a problem at all with the acid method.

 

[Vienrose]

It is better to use two chimney to burn the charcoal, so they can burn equally? I'm thinking to do something like 2kg of charcoal, but 1kg in one chimney and 1kg in the other.

 

[Joannf]

It is better to use two chimney to burn the charcoal, so they can burn equally? I'm thinking to do something like 2kg of charcoal, but 1kg in one chimney and 1kg in the other.

Absolutely - I think that's one of the better compromises to try... one kg should cover the bottom of the chimney, but not too much... definitely try it.
Chimneys are nice, they have handles ;)

 

[Bok]

Absolutely - I think that's one of the better compromises to try... one kg should cover the bottom of the chimney, but not too much... definitely try it.
Chimneys are nice, they have handles ;)

I agree the chimney is nice and easy but I see the benefit of your method where all bricks are at the same stage of burning. Thus maximizing there outputt
joannf have you invested in a co meter at alll?
Just wondering wherever your figures from

 

[Joannf]

Just dropping in with a question about Nitrogen, which many seem to see as the momentary in-gas of the day... it's a gas that does not react with your metabolism while breathing... almost 80% of the air you breathe IS alledgedly Nitrogen, and so someone had the idea to exchange, under controlled circumstances, the other 20% as well... and let you drown in Nitrogen.
What makes that a better experience than drowning in water is the fact that there would be no accumulation of CO2, which builds up in the body through breathing, and needs to get rid off fast - and which otherwise triggers the terrible panic reflex that you would feel when you drown/get asphyxiated under normal yachting-holiday circumstances.
The idea is to slowly increase the N-percentage of the air you breathe, lowering the O-percentage, and at the same time make sure that the CO2 you exhale gets transported away all the while so as to not irritate you.
Don't get me wrong - I don't know more about this than I read, half an hour ago, in the "N" thread at this forum, so I would appreciate comments - I may have misunderstood...

So as opposed to CO, N is neutral. Apparently, when you use N (usually under some sort of hood or mask that makes sure you don't accidentally breathe in normal air and go on living forever), you need to take care that the CO2 you exhale, is being sucked out of the hood by some trusty mechanism.
While N itself will likely not cause problems, it being a completely neutral gas that is just a filler substance, a placeholder for 'nothing,' the lack of oxygen might cause problem that are said to be convulsions etc, (you know these rumors from CO), and the presence of much CO2 'in the hood' would certainly cause reflective panic and discomfort...
It seems that therefore, you need to make sure that this CO2 gets reliably transported out of the hood for at least 40 minutes or so.
There's a detailed post about it somewhere in the N-thread...
Please look for it and tell me if I misunderstood this, because I'm a bit thick, find it ridiculous and appalling, and I fail to understand why people would want to employ such a strange and ineffective method.
PS, dreamsofdestruction cleared this up a post or two below - so I would conclude that N is probably easier to get ready-made as CO, therefore you might want ro check this method. But you need a breathing nask and to read the N-thread here, to learn about the details.

I agree the chimney is nice and easy but I see the benefit of your method where all bricks are at the same stage of burning. Thus maximizing there outputt
joannf have you invested in a co meter at alll?
Just wondering wherever your figures from

I bought a standard one of the sort that reach 999ppm only, and tested about five times, using amounts of CO-producing substances that could be expected to produce 10% of the CO I would want to produce in an end-of-times scenario. This is practical (undangerous) and easily done, the drawback is that the measured amount will rather be on the low side as losses always occur and are relatively higher in small setups, and as the gas will have trouble dispersing equally in the premises, for sheer lack of quantity. I tested again after 5 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes and an hour.
I need to make a correction about gas mask filters neutralizing CO - a simple active coal filter will NOT filter CO at all, need a special one. I confused that with the filter I'll use for mixing the acid, a simple coal filter will indeed take out the acid fumes - but more about the acid method later this week !
So I tested ppms several times with coals and once with acid, and the acid method is by far the faster (optimum within 5 minutes). It seemed that about 500 ml each of both acids would create slightly more CO than 1 kg of coals, but I wouldn't bet on the precision of that - it's more an impression than a measure.
Oh, and there's data from other people on this thread, who used 10.000ppm-meters and comparable amounts of coals, in comparable cbm volumes, who had very similar results (usually better), which leads me to believe that my estimates are rather realistic.
Still, I always recommend to use at least double the amount the get a safe overkill factor.

 

[dreamsofdestruction]

The idea is to slowly increase the N-percentage of the air you breathe, lowering the O-percentage, and at the same time make sure that the CO2 you exhale gets transported away all the while so as to not irritate you.

Not quite, you'd want to start with 100% nitrogen (or helium) and stop breathing in oxygen immediately.

Unless you use the "debreather" variant, which is a bit exotic and works basically like a rebreather diving system where you breathe air in a closed loop and the CO2 you breathe out gets absorbed by a CO2 scrubber. The difference between the diving version and the suicide version is that the former replaces the used up oxygen from a tank and the latter doesn't, so the concentration would eventually drop to levels which can't sustain life.

I fail to understand why people would want to employ such a strange and ineffective method.

Because it's supposedly painless and peaceful. And compared to CO the gas can be bought in highly pure form with no questions asked from various suppliers. So you don't have the problem of producing it yourself using error prone methods. But of course there are other problems to make up for that advantage.

 

[Roger]

The foil tray of those portable grills get extremely hot and may easily ignite or melt whatever they are standing on. If you are in a taped-up tent you may find yourself expiring in a way that you didn't plan.

 

[Joannf]

Not quite, you'd want to start with 100% nitrogen (or helium) and stop breathing in oxygen immediately.

Unless you use the "debreather" variant, which is a bit exotic and works basically like a rebreather diving system where you breathe air in a closed loop and the CO2 you breathe out gets absorbed by a CO2 scrubber. The difference between the diving version and the suicide version is that the former replaces the used up oxygen from a tank and the latter doesn't, so the concentration would eventually drop to levels which can't sustain life.

Because it's supposedly painless and peaceful. And compared to CO the gas can be bought in highly pure form with no questions asked from various suppliers. So you don't have the problem of producing it yourself using error prone methods. But of course there are other problems to make up for that advantage.

I see. So I would, which actually seems more sensible than going under a hood, use a sort of breathing mask like a scuba diver, and just inhale N through the nose while exhaling through the mouth, and feel no irritation, just slowly lose consciousness.
I looked after the N because I saw someone complaining about having been cheated by suppliers.
This also happens with certain drugs people like to buy via the Web - there's an industry of ripoff artists lurking who feed off suicidal folks...
So guess I'd rather create my own stuff after chemically correct recipes. Thanks for the info !

The foil tray of those portable grills get extremely hot and may easily ignite or melt whatever they are standing on. If you are in a taped-up tent you may find yourself expiring in a way that you didn't plan.

Taped up or not, tents are flammable - so that's a risk people have to take, or rather risk waking up after a few hours, with that sinking feeling that their precious gas has escaped before they could sufficiently savor it. I try to think up solutions for problems official suppliers are ignoring, like air-tight tents...
It's true that the portables get nastily hot and sometimes actually partially burn out or melt (!), but chimney starters also get hot, the same energy is being released and needs to go somewhere... so one needs to have a tent with as high a ceiling as possible, as heat will go straight up... I mentioned this on this thread multiple times, but was always assured that "it's no problem."
Well - I wouldn't recommend using a tent anyway, but if I used one I would certainly do a dry run with me outside the tent rather than in...

 

[dreamsofdestruction]

I see. So I would, which actually seems more sensible than going under a hood, use a sort of breathing mask like a scuba diver

Yeah, there's a debate about what's better, personally I find the scuba mask variant more interesting. I think the bag is popular mainly because it's what all the pro suicide organizations advocate for. (Because it's cheaper if you ask me.)

I looked after the N because I saw someone complaining about having been cheated by suppliers.
This also happens with certain drugs people like to buy via the Web - there's an industry of ripoff artists lurking who feed off suicidal folks...

I vaguely remember reading a post about someone ordering nitrogen from some kind of underground supplier and getting ripped off. Which is quite funny because over here you can just order pure nitrogen or helium from reputable industrial suppliers on Amazon marketplace, no questions asked. So I don't know why anyone would even seek out such people for something like that.

 

[Joannf]

Yeah, there's a debate about what's better, personally I find the scuba mask variant more interesting. I think the bag is popular mainly because it's what all the pro suicide organizations advocate for. (Because it's cheaper if you ask me.)



I vaguely remember reading a post about someone ordering nitrogen from some kind of underground supplier and getting ripped off. Which is quite funny because over here you can just order pure nitrogen or helium from reputable industrial suppliers on Amazon marketplace, no questions asked. So I don't know why anyone would even seek out such people for something like that.

I think most people have a terrible paranoia of being asked "are you trying to suicide yourself?" or something by a supplier. The same is true for the acids you would use to create CO. While what really happens is that they ask you, "would the 98% acid be sufficient for your purpose ?" And that's it ;)
I do understand that it happens with drugs, though I have no idea WHAT drugs exactly, people like to use abbreviations.
Drugs are sort of legendary for being illegal, though every veterinary has what you need.
There's the real world, and there's the fantasy world - and many people know either world from TV serials.

 

[Hel]

Is there any way to make this kind of death look like an accident?

 

[Asta]

Did you read about the guy who took a disposable barbecue into his RV and was cooking burgers? That looked accidental, as he didn't leave a note. From the Daily Mail in the UK: "Camper, 22, died from inhaling disposable barbecue fumes after cooking burgers inside his van...a used disposable BBQ was found in the rear of the closed van along with open packets of burgers and buns..."

 

[Cheezmam]

Ok, so you use a chimney starter. Coals 20minutes in there and then into the car in pale? What should the pale rest on? Is that enough charcoal for a Honda Accord? Should I use two chimney's worth?

 

[Hel]

Did you read about the guy who took a disposable barbecue into his RV and was cooking burgers? That looked accidental, as he didn't leave a note. From the Daily Mail in the UK: "Camper, 22, died from inhaling disposable barbecue fumes after cooking burgers inside his van...a used disposable BBQ was found in the rear of the closed van along with open packets of burgers and buns..."

The part of not leaving a note it's good because I won't, and the main reason is not to demonstrate that it was suicide. But I never go camping and I don't even drive, so the method would seem suspicious, nobody would believe it was misadventure.
I was thinking about a heater "misfunctioning". I use them a lot so nobody would find weird that I have one in the bathroom (I do, even in summer, because I'm always cold) and somehow it "poisoned" me... But I guess that there's no way to alter one and make it seem like an accident

 

[whyidon'tknow]

Looking for input on this method.

What about getting a hose connecting it to the exhaust and then connecting that to a large garbage back and sticking your head in?

My thinking is you can get a high concentration of CO regardless of whether or not the car has a cat converter.

Use extra bags and rope to make sure SI doesn't kick in and rip the back off of your head. Or I even thought about making a small breathing hole or tube to get a little fresh air while you breath more CO than anything.


What do people think?

Love and kindness

 

[Cleopatra123]

Looking for input on this method.

What about getting a hose connecting it to the exhaust and then connecting that to a large garbage back and sticking your head in?

My thinking is you can get a high concentration of CO regardless of whether or not the car has a cat converter.

Use extra bags and rope to make sure SI doesn't kick in and rip the back off of your head. Or I even thought about making a small breathing hole or tube to get a little fresh air while you breath more CO than anything.


What do people think?

Love and kindness

No enough CO in car exhausts anymore because of regulators and regulations, sorry to say my friend.

Ok, so you use a chimney starter. Coals 20minutes in there and then into the car in pale? What should the pale rest on? Is that enough charcoal for a Honda Accord? Should I use two chimney's worth?

Coals finished smoking and white, then 20 minutes into the car. Rest the pole on bricks or in a tin of cold water or both so the heat doesn't burn down.

 

[whyidon'tknow]

No enough CO in car exhausts anymore because of regulators and regulations, sorry to say my friend.

:( figured in a small area in would make the concentration of CO higher no?

 

[Djee]

Thinking about building that into the wild

 

[Vienrose]

How about do this in a wardrobe?
I was thinking to take in like 1'5 of charcoal? But im afraid that i will suffucate first. I want to make sure this is possible so I can stay calm when im going to do it.

 

[Roger]

Painting a tent is going to make for a terrible fire risk. It would go up with a whoosh.

MAKING YOUR TENT AIRTIGHT
#tent #insulation #co #monoxide

Here's a shot of a cheap tent that I always keep in the car (this is a decathlon tent, working on the white inner part), with one of the spray cans, and a closeup of a sprayed area.You want to lay on several coats, every one thin - take your time, let it dry... till the surface stays shiny when dry...
Use whatever spray paint you have, or those you can get cheapest, but the last coat should be shiny not matte... the entire coat should be thick, don't save on the spray cans... the tent will become noticeably stiffer.
You could instead use a large foil, which would be a second way (you would have to place the foil between inner and outer tent, and use duct tape additionally, to seal off holes, which can be ennervating). The spray way is better insofar as you can simply build up your tent at the campsite and concentrate on the CO biz.. Matter of taste. Also, I didn't have a fitting foil available today ;)

A spray-painted tent is going to be a dreadful fire risk - it would go up with a whoosh.
And you want to introduce burning coals ?

Don't be daft.

 

[Joannf]

Painting a tent is going to make for a terrible fire risk. It would go up with a whoosh.


A spray-painted tent is going to be a dreadful fire risk - it would go up with a whoosh.
And you want to introduce burning coals ?

Don't be daft.

Yeah. I'm just daft - I was born that way.
If you're not careful with the coals, any tent will go up in flames - in principle, using a tent (which is made for spending a whole night of breathing for 2 or more people), to kill yourself with GAS, is an extremely daft idea - but this is not entirely intuitive to most people, and surprisingly many have neither flats nor cars that they can use. So I supply them with the means to make the tents less breathable, and now they complain of fire risk and possible suffocation. Sigh.
Kids these days think they can have everything...

 

[Vienrose]

Hi!
Inside hotel rooms there are fire protection devices?

 

[jake3d]

Yes they do usually have smoke/gas detectors. Firing up a barbecue inside a hotel room isn't exactly a good idea no matter what you want to do with it.

 

[Vienrose]

Hi :) sorry for bother uall. Just a question. If I use 7k of charcoal for a small room? There might be the chance to create fire?

 

[Cheezmam]

Cicero man’s condition improves after chemical suicide attempt on I-81

Phillip Roundy, 53, was in serious condition July 8 after he was rescued from his vehicle, state police said.

www.syracuse.com

CO method?