Discussion Why Is suicide demonized in a lot of cultures?

[Deadgirl]

In religions those who commit suicide go to "hell". In my parents home country people who attempt go to jail. Suicides get the worst part of the graveyard. My family looks down at people who commit suicide because to them you must stick around for your family, well f*ck that!

 

[TAW122]

I think religions back then seek to control the masses (even so in present day) and before governments and monarchies were formed, they were the ruling elite and had the most power and influence in society (a group of people). Therefore, they dictate the rules and also they decided that if most of their members of society offed themselves, they would cease to exist or be taken over by another society/force/nature. It's fucked up and in the modern world, we humans are more educated than the people of many generations before, but at the same time (the masses) are brainwashed to the point where they just accept the lies sold by the elite.

 

[Empty Smile]

Can't go to hell when it doesn't exist.

 

[Mich517]

I even had a problem with answering on question in title. I think that suicide is "so evil" cause that shit called newborn/baby is somehow huge happiness for the two dumb persons and when you take yourself physically away from them you are ignoble.
Another reason could be making your friends sad - however the same friends who didn't help you in any way.

 

[Deadgirl]

Can't go to hell when it doesn't exist.

Very true.

 

[Mich517]

Can't go to hell when it doesn't exist.

Assume that exists - what about parents who gamble with life of conscious human being - "Let's make a baby, maybe it will be happy, maybe it will be suicidal.".

 

[Schizotypal]

I think religions back then seek to control the masses (even so in present day) and before governments and monarchies were formed, they were the ruling elite and had the most power and influence in society (a group of people). Therefore, they dictate the rules and also they decided that if most of their members of society offed themselves, they would cease to exist or be taken over by another society/force/nature. It's fucked up and in the modern world, we humans are more educated than the people of many generations before, but at the same time (the masses) are brainwashed to the point where they just accept the lies sold by the elite.

"Man has the right to die when and how he will"

Liber Oz I:06

 

[Empty Smile]

Assume that exists - what about parents who gamble with life of conscious human being - "Let's make a baby, maybe it will be happy, maybe it will be suicidal.".

So assuming it does exist. Are you asking if our parents should be condemned to hell because they gambled with the risk of whether we would be happy or suicidal?

My answer would be yes. Based on the sole fact, that none of the several hundred users of this site are happy. Whether they are suicidal, depressed, or just got the worst hair cut of their entire life, they are not happy.

Not a single person on this site asked to be born, but yet, we are forced to live a life we didn't ask to come to.

Don't think I'm attacking you here, just giving my 2 cents.

 

[Schizotypal]

god must go to hell because he made us all without our consent
I believe he's the only one who will burn in hell - jesus motherfucker christ

 

[brbr]

I think that's because death is a complicated subject in every culture (for obvious reasons, ceasing to exist is really hard to accept),
deliberately choosing death it's even more complicated, lol. But there are cultures that handle better suicide than others. In some, like in ancient Japan, it is even a honorable way to die depending of the situation.

 

[Mbound]

Imagine worshipping a God so evil He would give someone a life so indescribably terrible that the person (probably painfully) cuts it off early, only to send that person to an everlasting torture chamber with no hope of escape for the crime of....not putting up with the torment on Earth for long enough.

The fact that people actually believe Hell can be part of a """"loving"""" God's plan is beyond me, it's absolutely baffling. I will never ever understand it no matter how many time these crazies say "we all deserve Hell." Uh, no we don't. No one deserves infinite torture, not even the worst person who's ever lived.

 

[Bärchen]

Dead people don't pay taxes

 

[lost_soul83]

Assume that exists - what about parents who gamble with life of conscious human being - "Let's make a baby, maybe it will be happy, maybe it will be suicidal.".

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna feel bad for someone that is suicidal and angry at his/her parents "because I didn't ask to be born!" Quit your whining and get over it! You were born and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[Mich517]

So assuming it does exist. Are you asking if our parents should be condemned to hell because they gambled with the risk of whether we would be happy or suicidal?

My answer would be yes. Based on the sole fact, that none of the several hundred users of this site are happy. Whether they are suicidal, depressed, or just got the worst hair cut of their entire life, they are not happy.

Not a single person on this site asked to be born, but yet, we are forced to live a life we didn't ask to come to.

Don't think I'm attacking you here, just giving my 2 cents.

I get it. However, theoretically human species is able to not exist. If we must exist regardless (and there is substitutive world), I think we don't have to be created by other man.

god must go to hell because he made us all without our consent
I believe he's the only one who will burn in hell - jesus motherfucker christ

I don't think that a man has a lot in common with making Earth a lot of years ago.

brbr said

But there are cultures that handle better suicide than others. In some, like in ancient Japan, it is even a honorable way to die depending of the situation.

Sure, for example kamikaze.

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna feel bad for someone that is suicidal and angry at his/her parents "because I didn't ask to be born!" Quit your whining and get over it! You were born and there's nothing you can do about it.

Actually I'm not angry boy who is offended on his parents due to being born. I'm just saying that procreation is stupidity.

Dead people don't pay taxes

Some people say that someone have to earn for their retirement.

 

[Empty Smile]

I get it. However, theoretically human species is able to not exist. If we must exist regardless (and there is substitutive world), I think we don't have to be created by other man.

Substitutive world? I don't believe there is such a thing.

Before we were born, or concieved, our life didn't exist. We were nothing.

When we die, guess what? We no longer exist. We are nothing. There is no other world we go to.

As far as a heaven or hell goes, it doesn't exist. No amount of information, or "proof" you give me, will change my mind.

 

[Alchemist]

Back in the day when the amount of humans in the world were half a billion and villages were no more than a few dozen people, losing one person was somewhat vital for everyone, so religions would need to eliminate choice. Besides, less people means less money. Nowadays is mostly inertia since most religions are stuck in the bronze age.

 

[Mich517]

Substitutive world? I don't believe there is such a thing.

Actually me too. It is only my hypothesis which I figured out once, cause possibility of literally no life anywhere makes me mindfuck a bit.

 

[lost_soul83]

Substitutive world? I don't believe there is such a thing.

Before we were born, or concieved, our life didn't exist. We were nothing.

When we die, guess what? We no longer exist. We are nothing. There is no other world we go to.

As far as a heaven or hell goes, it doesn't exist. No amount of information, or "proof" you give me, will change my mind.

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, just make sure you allow others' theirs.

 

[Divine Trinity]

In religions those who commit suicide go to "hell". In my parents home country people who attempt go to jail. Suicides get the worst part of the graveyard. My family looks down at people who commit suicide because to them you must stick around for your family, well f*ck that!

As far as christianity goes, it's debated whether or not the bible condemns suicide, inarguably it doesn't explicitly say so. Of course I don't think anything in religious text should be taken seriously, like Greek mythology or fortune-telling. The only religions I'm aware of that may condemn suicide is Islam and Hinduism, emphasis on "may".

Suicide outside of ritual practices (Ex: sacred sacrifice or bushido.) is largely a capitalist phenomenon, granted capitalism is arguably a religion. So most religions in history either have no opinion, or are supportive of suicide in certain circumstances (Jesus essentially suicides-by-cop).

 

[Empty Smile]

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, just make sure you allow others' theirs.

I allow others their own opinions. I may agree or disagree, but I will hear you out.

 

[Divine Trinity]

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna feel bad for someone that is suicidal and angry at his/her parents "because I didn't ask to be born!" Quit your whining and get over it! You were born and there's nothing you can do about it.

They're not wrong, which is why it's clichè. I do think it brings up some interesting questions when you consider the consequences of the statement.

 

[Empty Smile]

I'm sorry but I'm not gonna feel bad for someone that is suicidal and angry at his/her parents "because I didn't ask to be born!" Quit your whining and get over it! You were born and there's nothing you can do about it.

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, just make sure you allow others' theirs.

 

[Divine Trinity]

I even had a problem with answering on question in title. I think that suicide is "so evil" cause that shit called newborn/baby is somehow huge happiness for the two dumb persons and when you take yourself physically away from them you are ignoble.
Another reason could be making your friends sad - however the same friends who didn't help you in any way.

It's a myth that having children make people happy. Hunter-gatherers had a lot of children because a large number of infants died pre-maturely. Agrarian farmers needed the extra "free" labour, and someone to take of them when they're old. Industrial society, effectively punishes people for having children. People will likely stabilize in the next era, maybe manufacturing children.

 

[Mich517]

It's a myth that having children make people happy. Hunter-gatherers had a lot of children because a large number of infants died pre-maturely. Agrarian farmers needed the extra "free" labour, and someone to take of them when they're old. Industrial society, effectively punishes people for having children. People will likely stabilize in the next era, maybe manufacturing children.

In fact as I remember reading certain forum,
even woman personal feelings after labour are sometimes the issue. Ha-ha, it's sick.

Anyway I don't wanna to offtop too much here. Why is suicide demonized in various cultures? As we could conclude from posts in the thread it has mainly roots in religious.

 

[Soul]

Anyway I don't wanna to offtop too much here. Why is suicide demonized in various cultures? As we could conclude from posts in the thread it has mainly roots in religious.

But the demonization started only in certain religions and cultures, and yet it seems to have taken over most of the world. Is it economic? Since slaves, serfs and women were property, committing suicide would be a form of robbery, so inflicting people with a fear of eternal punishment was a way to keep them obediently alive?

I'm not convinced of that - just thinking "aloud". Maybe it's just a glorification of the survival instinct.

 

[Divine Trinity]

In fact as I remember reading certain forum,
even woman personal feelings after labour are sometimes the issue. Ha-ha, it's sick.

Anyway I don't wanna to offtop too much here. Why is suicide demonized in various cultures? As we could conclude from posts in the thread it has mainly roots in religious.

I disagree with that conclusion, as I stated in some other post with a similiar topic, most religions have no opinion or are supportive of suicide in certain conditions. Jesus for example, essentially commited suicide-by-cop, and is worshipped for it. The bible also doesn't have any explicit text condemning suicide, some people choose to interpret it that way, some don't.

There are thousands of religions today, there were likely 10s of thousands before European colonialism wiped out most of them. To blame religion for western culture's (mainly the US) views on society is intellectually lazy at best, if not outright wrong.

I think suicide why suicide is frowned upon in western culture is largely due to fundamental philosophical beliefs made by influential intellectuals. Namely the belief that an individual owes their life to others, not themselves. It is a core principle in feudal society's social contract between the state, private, and public sector. These feudal principles weren't challenged until the enlightment era, which has taken that whole subject matter into a different direction (ie capitalism).

Unlike in feudal society where every citizen has a purpose in society from king to slave, even if it was a shitty life, it's believed people's lives have inherent value. In a capitalist society, human live is inherently worthless, your value as a person is determined by the market. If you don't generate profit, we as a society will leave you for dead. That's a large (and rather regressive) change in philosophy, and we can see how it's implementation has affected the social contract between state, private, and public interest.

Because profit-making is a virtue, poverty is a sin. But not a sin against god or the common good, it's a sin against the market. Our current society founded on the premise of "individualism" is incapable of accepting suicide because suicide, or more specifically the act of "self-sacrifice", undermines markets. Therefore it is irrational and immoral behavior only capable of being perpetrated by the most vile and ammoral characters in society. We're not supposed to care about our personal relationships with others (or lack of), we're supposed to compete, swindle, and exploit them.

I could go on, but this essay would turn into a thesis.

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

I attempted multiple suicide attempts but my family and friends and support network will claim I only attempted once either to protect me from myself or because they really don't want me to die I also asked people on here to assist suicide last time I did that I got arrested because they didn't want me to kill myself so I can't rely on this website for a potential suicide partner because I actually carried out the act of finding a suicide partner on here in hopes of giving myself a peaceful death I shot myself several times with a .44 magnum and or two nine millimeter pistol before so I just want them to know since I know they look through my data on here "am I truly married with kids or not" I am not interested in typing subliminal messages on Facebook maybe on here instead and hopes someone is smart enough to decode it or just be blunt and direct on here for everyone should I "live" or should I just "die in peace"?

Can't go to hell when it doesn't exist.

Only hell I agree with is on earth and within the human fragility's mind if only I had a gun I can kill myself in my apartment like I tried before and hopefully not go to looney bin bullshit I am not like the rest of these humans I don't believe suicide to be a sin it is an escape out of reality plain and simple I get why the suicidal kill themselves I tried multiple times but the people who are trying to help just claim I only attempted once which bull too smart for my own good.
I think the reason why some can't speak for all people demonize suicide is because of the pain and suffering and the amount of money it affects the family and friends and others around people who "claim to want to help" suicidal people live in this world for whatever reason plus for religious reasons and societal reason for that which may be known or unknown.

 

[Mich517]

I disagree with that conclusion, as I stated in some other post with a similiar topic, most religions have no opinion or are supportive of suicide in certain conditions. Jesus for example, essentially commited suicide-by-cop, and is worshipped for it. The bible also doesn't have any explicit text condemning suicide, some people choose to interpret it that way, some don't.

There are thousands of religions today, there were likely 10s of thousands before European colonialism wiped out most of them. To blame religion for western culture's (mainly the US) views on society is intellectually lazy at best, if not outright wrong.

I think suicide why suicide is frowned upon in western culture is largely due to fundamental philosophical beliefs made by influential intellectuals. Namely the belief that an individual owes their life to others, not themselves. It is a core principle in feudal society's social contract between the state, private, and public sector. These feudal principles weren't challenged until the enlightment era, which has taken that whole subject matter into a different direction (ie capitalism).

Unlike in feudal society where every citizen has a purpose in society from king to slave, even if it was a shitty life, it's believed people's lives have inherent value. In a capitalist society, human live is inherently worthless, your value as a person is determined by the market. If you don't generate profit, we as a society will leave you for dead. That's a large (and rather regressive) change in philosophy, and we can see how it's implementation has affected the social contract between state, private, and public interest.

Because profit-making is a virtue, poverty is a sin. But not a sin against god or the common good, it's a sin against the market. Our current society founded on the premise of "individualism" is incapable of accepting suicide because suicide, or more specifically the act of "self-sacrifice", undermines markets. Therefore it is irrational and immoral behavior only capable of being perpetrated by the most vile and ammoral characters in society. We're not supposed to care about our personal relationships with others (or lack of), we're supposed to compete, swindle, and exploit them.

I could go on, but this essay would turn into a thesis.

So problem isn't with scripture but with interpretation? But what about priests who consider suicide as a cardinal sin? At least I think I've heard something like that once.

I attempted multiple suicide attempts but my family and friends and support network will claim I only attempted once either to protect me from myself or because they really don't want me to die I also asked people on here to assist suicide last time I did that I got arrested because they didn't want me to kill myself so I can't rely on this website for a potential suicide partner because I actually carried out the act of finding a suicide partner on here in hopes of giving myself a peaceful death I shot myself several times with a .44 magnum and or two nine millimeter pistol before so I just want them to know since I know they look through my data on here "am I truly married with kids or not" I am not interested in typing subliminal messages on Facebook maybe on here instead and hopes someone is smart enough to decode it or just be blunt and direct on here for everyone should I "live" or should I just "die in peace"?.

You want them get to know by chance?

Only hell I agree with is on earth and within the human fragility's mind if only I had a gun I can kill myself in my apartment like I tried before and hopefully not go to looney bin bullshit I am not like the rest of these humans I don't believe suicide to be a sin it is an escape out of reality plain and simple I get why the suicidal kill themselves I tried multiple times but the people who are trying to help just claim I only attempted once which bull too smart for my own good.
I think the reason why some can't speak for all people demonize suicide is because of the pain and suffering and the amount of money it affects the family and friends and others around people who "claim to want to help" suicidal people live in this world for whatever reason plus for religious reasons and societal reason for that which may be known or unknown.

Uh-uh.

 

[Schizotypal]

Dead people don't pay taxes

So why I'm still paying?

Dear gOD how have you been then?
I'm not fine, fuck pretending
All of this death your sending
Best throw some free heart mending
Invite you in my heart, then
When done, my sins forgiven?
This gOD of mine relaxes
WORLD DIES I STILL PAY TAXEEEES!
Can I be as my gOD am
Can you be as gOD am
Can I be as my gOD am
gOD of all my gOD am

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

No, I don't want to know by chance I just want to know the truth I think it isn't the first time I wrote this before on this website but before I go to the psych evaluation meeting or eviction meeting I just want to know the truth how many times did I attempt suicide did I really shoot myself in the head with a .44 magnum and all of that I just want to know did I actually get married and whether I am better off alive or better off dead and personally I don't believe suicide as sin that's is just me I understand why some people kill themselves to get rid of the pain and suffering and to go to hell more pain and suffering just to end their own pain and suffering I don't agree with that concept of "carnal sin" I think some people need to understand why some kill themselves I only attempted suicide multiple times and currently have no interest in doing it one more time unless it is necessary

And funny thing is I felt like I have read those words before deja vu or precognition or based off of repeat data storage or having someone type the same words like I have on here interesting.