Suicidal clinic clique - group suicide in coming?

[noname223]

I am in a clinic. I will stay somewhat vague too scared of getting identified. I am in a clinic with many suicidal people. I was not fully aware of that it is not dedicated for that. it is prohibited to talk about suicide and self-harm and yes we already crossed that line. I am getting somewhat anxious to get into trouble for breaking this rule.

So there are two borderline women who alluded they are/were very suicidal. (They would get locked away if they were fully honest). And recently they attempted. After the clinic I asked one of them how suicidal she actually is. And seemingly quite suicidal. In contrast to me she seems to be more open about in front of therapists. How likely is it she reads that post? I hope not.
She says she has detailed method knowledge memorized. In contrast to me she is still considering the pros and cons of which method to use. I would never ever tell anyone of them about SaSu. I am way way too scared to get into trouble legally and ethically. They are pretty young and a few years ago they were minors.

The thing is: this is the second day we talked openly about suicide and it is already very fucking explicit. Some of them joked that one of us could jump in front of the train. Some really made movements into that direction and feint it. Is this the right word? They made moves into that direction and laughed loud.

I got anxious. I know I gonna commit suicide in the future. I think the staff also knows that. But they are so young. (I am not much older but their lives are not as hopeless as mine from what they have described).) Moreover, what weighs even more. Holy shit I don't want to witness a train suicide in real life. When I was a teenager I watched gore but I always was scared about train videos and never watched one. This must look nightmarish. I told them not to jump and said something like way too risky. (which is also my honest opinion). The other one (who is less suicidal) said he would rather slit his wrists. I think most people on this forum can evaluate that method. I told them if one of them jumped the rest of us would get pretty traumatized. We would all develop PTSD and a domino suicide of us all would be likely. I really really don't want to witness a train suicide especially not in real life where all the organs and blood fly around maybe right into my face.

I am really scared to get into trouble if one of them kills themselves. I will try to steer the conversation into a different direction if they are actually explicitly planning something (for us doing it together for example). I have done that in the past. I am very much anti group suicide (for me personally). Way too risky. What scares me we are already that explicit the second day we talk about it. We will be together some weeks. It could get uncomfortable for me. It is something different in real life.There are pros and cons debating suicide online or in real life. It is an interesting experience. However, in real life the impact and the consequences of the decision are more real.

It is not that I am scared about me committing suicide. I gonna do it not sure when exactly I will do it. I am pretty dead set on SN as a method. I would never ever tell them about that method. If they committed suicide with it I might would go to jail for it. Holy shit. I am not sure how to de-escalate the situation if it comes that far. In case they literally tell me "I am going to kill myself tomorrow" I would probably give the staff a hint. I know I am a snitch but my ass is too beautiful for prison. I have way way way too many problems. Jail time should not be one of them. However, I am pretty surprised. In many cases I would have never expected they are suicidal. A dude just told me today he attempted some time ago and was close to do it again. I never expected him to be suicidal he is so funny and always says he is in a good mood.

Furthermore, I could live better with a suicide if I knew the person actually tried to get better. And some/many of them have done close to zero attempts to get better. I respect when others think suicide can also be a matter of philosophy for example pro-mortalists. But none of them seem to be pro-mortalists. In the end I don't know their story. I don't know how much theyhave tried. But if they told me I gonna kill myself tomorrow and they actually do it there would be very uncomfortable questions for me. Also from the staff. I am not sure how good I could sleep with that.

I am not sure where's the difference to this forum. I think for coming to this forum people actually research methods. They are doing the first step. And the survivial instinct is in most cases so strong that extreme pain and suffering is necessary to go through with it.
Moreover, I have a guilty conscience because I broke the rule not to talk about it when I asked the one who alluded severe suicidality how suicidal she actually is. Me committing suicide I don't have any guilty conscience. I also would consider it to be very questionable (in most cases) to give someone else a guilty conscience for committing suicide.

First I wanted to post this in suicide discussion. However, my sorrows concerning these action let me post this in off-topic. It is also not recovery related. Lol.
It is overwhelming to be that honest in front of other suicidal patients. However, compared to them I shut my mouth. I don't trust randoms. I barely speak about my suicidality in front of them. I only leave hints. They could be snitches just as me. I think it is somehwat normal to have these concerns that I just explained. Especially if you look another human being straight into his or her eyes and notice for example how they laugh and joke around. You feel sad for them. But you can pretty much relate.

 

[noname223]

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[Jorms_McGander]

Alright I only got as far as "feint" so far and just as a stand-alone reply because I love vocabulary, yes that was correct and a very good word choice, uncommon for English-first-language speakers but widely understood. To "feint" is to begin a motion and then stop it, or change it at the last second. Not all feints are jokes; you could use a feint to threaten somebody if you pretended to hit them but deliberately stopped short. I'm sure there are other possible meanings I haven't considered. But importantly when your friend made a motion toward a train and stopped, that was definitely a feint. Well done. Now back to reading.
Alright now some bread and butter conversation.

You are not legally responsible for the actions of other patients in your group. That would be downright shocking even for a country not known for having good human rights.

You mention there are two BPD patients there--lol BPD gonna BPD amirite--is this a DBT group? Are all patients in individual therapy alongside this clinic? No doubt the trained therapists, psychiatrists and etcetera have a reading of the symptoms of their patients, and it is their responsibility to keep their patients safe not only in individual therapy but also in group therapy.

If you are really going to see a group suicide emerging out of a therapy group, I mean, you guys are gonna get famous. So maybe stick around for the opportunity to publish a book about it later. That would be exceptionally horrible results, that would indicate some extreme ignorance of best practice and maybe even abuse, especially in 2024.

You've got people like me in these groups now, who flew under the radar for twenty years. Things are okay, even if I'm still chronically suicidal I'm at least getting some help, or I had some help anyway, and yeah. I suspect that you're in a clinic with more than one staff member and that there are records kept and your staff members work to supporting each other and all sorts of stuff goes on that they are well aware of.

On a practical note:

It sounds like you are struggling with boundaries and rule-breaking. You're not responsible for what they say, and you don't have to join this clique of irreverent rule-breakers. That's what they're doing. They are being rebellious youth in a support group, it's fine if they want to do that because it doesn't have to be your business if you don't want it to be. If this type of humour makes you uncomfortable, if it's not something you want to be part of, then you are well within your rights to simply say so. You may say anything you wish, but "that topic makes me uncomfortable" is enough. It sounds like you asserted yourself after the one girl made a feint toward the train, and that was great. Exactly what you need to be doing. If you have individual therapy sessions, you can bring up things you've heard that are troubling you in the safety and confidentiality of that environment. Most importantly, you don't have to be uncomfortable. You don't have to be cool, you don't have to get a joke--if somebody joking about throwing themselves in front of a train made you uncomfortable, for some very good reasons you wrote down, that makes sense to me. You can tell them you don't appreciate the humour and you can disengage if they continue to do that around you.

But you're not responsible for keeping their secrets or for witnessing their suicides or for anything they choose to do no matter what you say or do. Nobody is ever going to come for you because of that. In rare cases where guilty has been found, there is a long pattern of well-documented manipulation and abuse. Not casual conversations after group therapy.