Discussion What is the purpose of this board?

[Forever Sleep]

I'm making this thread after visiting the post by @myownpetvirus concerning the younger members here (18-25). It also relates to the post by @mousepadkeyboard223 in Off Topic discussing whether SaSu (and primarily this section I would imagine) is an echo chamber.

I have to say that I do understand the frustration people are having with the @myownpetvirus thread. I don't think anyone likes having their motives questioned here. Still- to be fair- I don't think that was the OP's original intention. I think they were refering to the occasional young person we see on here who is clearly unsure.

Anyhow- the post isn't actually about that... I'm more curious as to the reaction the post is getting. A lot of people are saying it belongs in the recovery section. I expect a lot of people will also say that this post belongs in off topic.

It was a response by @AlighieriTTT that caught my attention. They said the OP's post:

'sounds really at-odds end with the purpose of this board.'

So- that's my question- What is the purpose of this board?

What do you think? Is it a place welcome to ALL ideas surrounding suicide? (Including those we might not really like- such as 'gate keeping' it from younger members.) Or is it more a 'safe space' kept clear of pro-life ideas and platitudes- because we get enough of them in the real world?

 

[Anonymus]

Here he describes it clearly:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/rules-and-faq.4/

//
Aquí ho descriu ben clar.


Although it is true that I often come across more radical positions than this space should be.
//
Tot i que es cert que em trobo sovint amb posicionaments més radicals del que hauríua d'ésser aquest espai.

 

[SamTam33]

I think all ideas are (mostly) welcome but should be contained in the appropriate sections. The link above says that encouraging words about recovering from depression and suicidal thoughts should be in the Recovery section.

Now, posters like that "musician" guy Johels or Jules (I can't remember) should be kicked completely out on their rear ends - and he was.

He wasn't interested in discussing the pros and cons of life and death. He just wanted to tell us how we should've prevented the suicide of someone he kinda sorta knew online

I haven't seen the second thread you mentioned but I didn't mind the first one because a lot of the responses were thought-provoking and thorough. And the 'youngsters' (hehe just kidding) were defending their positions very well.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Here he describes it clearly:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/rules-and-faq.4/

//
Aquí ho descriu ben clar.


Although it is true that I often come across more radical positions than this space should be.
//
Tot i que es cert que em trobo sovint amb posicionaments més radicals del que hauríua d'ésser aquest espai.

Thanks @Dead Ghost I'd forgotten how well written this was... Think I was in a hurry to get onto the site! I'd actually forgotten how much emphasis was placed on the recovery resources- if you are feeling unsure. Again, probably skimmed a lot of that because I was and still am sure. Thanks for linking it.

I think all ideas are (mostly) welcome but should be contained in the appropriate sections. The link above says that encouraging words about recovering from depression and suicidal thoughts should be in the Recovery section.

Now, posters like that "musician" guy Johels or Jules (I can't remember) should be kicked completely out on their rear ends - and he was.

He wasn't interested in discussing the pros and cons of life and death. He just wanted to tell us how we should've prevented the suicide of someone he kinda sorta knew online

I haven't seen the second thread you mentioned but I didn't mind the first one because a lot of the responses were thought-provoking and thorough. And the 'youngsters' (hehe just kidding) were defending their positions very well.

All good points- thanks.

God yeah- I remember that Jonels guy (wasn't it?) I actually wouldn't mind having a reasoned discussion with a pro-lifer but I kind of doubt many would come on here looking for a reasoned discusion... Plus, seeing as so much of it can be based on belief and feelings and difficult things to diagnose- like mental illness, I'm not sure it would do that much good.

 

[ksp]

Or is it more a 'safe space' kept clear of pro-life ideas and platitudes- because we get enough of them in the real world?

that's the main question

i was thinking about that thread and i try to see it objectively: it seems to be a healthy and civilized discussion; most posts are intelligent and respectful

the problem is caused by pro-lifers: pro-lifers are detrimental to society because they are irrational and narcissistic - they impose their views on others disregarding any logical reasoning

this thread proves that young people can have very mature and balanced arguments, without the unwelcome intrusion of close minded

in an ideal society, this is the discussion that needs to happen

in our imperfect world, we need to shut down all platitudes promptly, because we are sick of them and we don't come here to see them (the rest of the web available) - 'i need to think about my life without false and toxic positivity'

there are many brilliant posts there; i like these ones:

It gets better....

Except when it doesn't.

Forcing anyone to do it is unlikely to result in success, it has to be their choice

Yeah it's "better" than being homeless, but it's not anything to aspire to.

no one should endure suffering just because they're young.

Time machines don't exist.
Bitterness and regret do.

I don't think I can get better without changing the things that define me. So, If the core of my personality and identity changes to something unrecognizeable, is there really a difference with dying?

I'd like to die with my core still intact

Yeah, maybe somewhere I do have the ability to live a good life, but I simply do not want to, I just want to be dead. So all of your preaching just sounds really at-odds end with the purpose of this board.

I have so many internal fights I have to battle that I'd rather retreat than stand my ground.

it's not like people with 18-25 years never heard about the possibility of things getting better; is the first thing we think of, and i bet the ones on the suicide section doesn't want to hear that again.

There is never a time where you will ever have blissful happiness. There will ALWAYS be troubles and issues and hardships. It just gets worse when you're older because you have to take on more responsibilities and burdens.

Why should I wait it out just for more suffering and pain when I should have been dead years ago. Life is just too difficult for me and I doubt it'll get improve magically as I grow older.

the problem with viewpoints similar to yours is that it comes across as treating all people the same, when all people are definitely not the same

The only thing that can change is your point-of-view regarding said struggles and hardships.

It's VERY difficult to change when deep down, you don't really want to. If a person is certain about their ideas and feelings, this idea of being forced to change surely is at odds with our right to choose.

Obviously, everyone has a different situation, some people are sure about their decision, but some are not and maybe reading your words will give them some strength and hope. I appreciate that

Why this life? Why this journey? Why these struggles?

Why the obligation to get better.

I don't think we need to offer unsolicited reminders that death is permanent and hotline staffers are standing by. The internet is full of bots offering that exact information.

Young adults are still adults, and at some point we need to step back and let them make choices. Let's please not condescend to them or imagine they've forgotten their country's three-digit emergency code.

Some 40 y o may have potential to recover and live a happy life, while some 20 y o may suffer every day and have a bleak future

I would still advise you

i'm not taking any sides here, i just like them, and i find this thread fascinating

i like the fact that young minds are so bright, and ultimately demanding their rights to be respected, without judgment

ps. i believe that life is lottery, and it can be utterly unfair to many people, so people have the right to not be judged be anyone else but themselves; they have the right to ask for help, and they have the right to refuse it, or come to the conclusion they can't be saved - life is far from perfect, and even if society wants to help everyone, this is just not possible (society will never be able to eliminate poverty, cure terminal illnesses, eliminate wars, or define the purpose of life)

 

[yyytry]

I like the idea of respectful open conversation. The thread in question, didn't bother me or raise "pro lifer red flags".

The other thread about removing mandatory reporting of suicidal ideation, was also a great one. I feel a lot of my struggle, is bottling up the suicidal feelings and having that fester into other, more deepened and sustained depression.

I would hope for future generations, that they wouldn't have to be scared or withhold things from therapy. I would like to see the stigmatization from this subject gone.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I like the idea of respectful open conversation. The thread in question, didn't bother me or raise "pro lifer red flags".

The other thread about removing mandatory reporting of suicidal ideation, was also a great one. I feel a lot of my struggle, is bottling up the suicidal feelings and having that fester into other, more deepened and sustained depression.

I would hope for future generations, that they wouldn't have to be scared or withhold things from therapy. I would like to see the stigmatization from this subject gone.

I 100% agree. I'm sure it doesn't do any good to not be able to talk about these ideas to anybody- for fear of being sectioned. Honestly, it just baffles me when people here have discussed their experiences with therapists. If they have been brave enough to broach the subject, SOME seem to have been met with this- brushing under the carpet attitude- we don't talk about that. I just find that so strange (and unhelpful.) It's like a doctor prescribing pain killers for a broken arm but not actually fixing the break.

Maybe they think just talking about it will be enough to legitimise and reinforce those feelings to the point you'll act on them. I do get it that they have trained to (try) to save and improve lives. I think if the feelings are homicidal for instance, it's a different matter. Still- I believe- even in that case, the therapist may only be obliged to warn the other person rather than inform the police! I might be wrong there but that seems bizarre. Still- I don't see how you can 'cure' someone of being suicidal by not talking about it all and just glossing over the whole thing.

 

[Dot]

Now, posters like that "musician" guy Johels or Jules (I can't remember) should be kicked completely out on their rear ends - and he was.

He wasn't interested in discussing the pros and cons of life and death. He just wanted to tell us how we should've prevented the suicide of someone he kinda sorta knew online

God yeah- I remember that Jonels guy (wasn't it?) I actually wouldn't mind having a reasoned discussion with a pro-lifer but I kind of doubt many would come on here looking for a reasoned discusion... Plus, seeing as so much of it can be based on belief and feelings and difficult things to diagnose- like mental illness, I'm not sure it would do that much good.

Tht usr ws @Jonels -- Jodes = a diffrnt SaSu membr

 

[Forever Sleep]

Tht usr ws @Jonels -- Jodes = a diffrnt SaSu membr

Thanks so much- yes- @SamTam33 just PM'd me... Sorry @jodes2 . I've corrected it in the thread too.

 

[UKscotty]

I never read long posts or threads, lose interest after a couple of sentences.

As for purpose, I think it's pretty crystal clear. Here to share the best ideas and methods to end one's own life.

 

[Destiny Calls Me]

Before I found this site, I felt restricted and scared to talk about anything to do with suicide and how much/why I hate existing. Even after going to a psych ward, taking pills and talking to a therapist, there was nothing at any point that made me feel different. Nothing made me feel better. I felt I had to cover it up just to make it through the day. Lying about how much I loved something/someone or how good of a time I was having. All because if you said the "wrong" thing, you'd get sent right back to the ward.

Its a sigh of relieve to be able to talk to like minded people, share ideas and stories from across the world.

 

[makethepainstop]

This site is the only place in the known universe, where uncomfortable truths can be spoken, without fear of being forcefully committed,(post haste), into a mental health care facility.
This site is the only place in the known universe, where uncomfortable truths can be spoken, without fear of being forcefully committed,(post haste), into a mental health care facility.

 

[Himalayan]

There's already rules to gatekeep it from younger members.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Life has tortured trillions of sentient beings for 500 million years. But 99% of humans believe life is wonderful , beatiful a gift, a privelege. Ask yourself why that is.

I think there are numerous reasons for this. There are the obvious ones:

We are TOLD to think life is precious- by religion, by society- for possibly nefarious reasons- to ensure that we survive and pay our taxes.

We are (hopefully) TOLD we are precious by our parents because they (hopefully) love us. Yes- it could be argued this is simply a biological trick to ensure that those genes survive. Still- some people feel love to be an important part of their lives. Feelings may have a biological purpose but they are also things we FEEL. We are both emotional and thinking creatures. It may well be that some believe they are at a more evolved level where they can out-think their emotions but lots of humans can't. Their feelings of connection to other human beings are why they (should) respect the lives of others and may well grieve when those people die. (Of course in practice- this doesn't always work.)

Our ego I imagine is a strong element. We are perfectly capable of convincing ourselves that what we are achieving is all important. That even our souls are important because they are immortal. We are also perfectly capable of convincing ourselves that we are utterly useless. That all life is utterly meaningless and cruel. Our brains CAN do both. Which is right?

I'd agree with you- that there is an incredible amount of suffering in this world. There doesn't seem to be a reason for it either. So- is there a God or isn't there? Guessing you're answer is 'no'. Then- who or what is torturing us? Life? Does life have an end goal? Is life conscious? Is it capable of acting malliciously? Maybe it's chance. Is chance good or bad- maybe it's neither- maybe it just IS. So- does that make life intrinsically good or intrinsically bad? Perhaps neither too- perhaps it just IS...

Of course- where I would agree with you is- bringing a life into this world is (in my opinion) unfair because (in my opinion), the bad outweighs the good. There's EVERY chance that that person may end up struggling and depressed. Still- unless you know otherwise- life doesn't come about by magic. It is born from creatures too randy or in love to resist having sex.

 

[lionetta12]

I'm making this thread after visiting the post by @myownpetvirus concerning the younger members here (18-25). It also relates to the post by @mousepadkeyboard223 in Off Topic discussing whether SaSu (and primarily this section I would imagine) is an echo chamber.

I have to say that I do understand the frustration people are having with the @myownpetvirus thread. I don't think anyone likes having their motives questioned here. Still- to be fair- I don't think that was the OP's original intention. I think they were refering to the occasional young person we see on here who is clearly unsure.

Anyhow- the post isn't actually about that... I'm more curious as to the reaction the post is getting. A lot of people are saying it belongs in the recovery section. I expect a lot of people will also say that this post belongs in off topic.

It was a response by @AlighieriTTT that caught my attention. They said the OP's post:

'sounds really at-odds end with the purpose of this board.'

So- that's my question- What is the purpose of this board?

What do you think? Is it a place welcome to ALL ideas surrounding suicide? (Including those we might not really like- such as 'gate keeping' it from younger members.) Or is it more a 'safe space' kept clear of pro-life ideas and platitudes- because we get enough of them in the real world?

What is the purpose of this board, you ask? While I ponder, what is the purpose of life

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I think there are numerous reasons for this. There are the obvious ones:

We are TOLD to think life is precious- by religion, by society- for possibly nefarious reasons- to ensure that we survive and pay our taxes.

We are (hopefully) TOLD we are precious by our parents because they (hopefully) love us. Yes- it could be argued this is simply a biological trick to ensure that those genes survive. Still- some people feel love to be an important part of their lives. Feelings may have a biological purpose but they are also things we FEEL. We are both emotional and thinking creatures. It may well be that some believe they are at a more evolved level where they can out-think their emotions but lots of humans can't. Their feelings of connection to other human beings are why they (should) respect the lives of others and may well grieve when those people die. (Of course in practice- this doesn't always work.)

Our ego I imagine is a strong element. We are perfectly capable of convincing ourselves that what we are achieving is all important. That even our souls are important because they are immortal. We are also perfectly capable of convincing ourselves that we are utterly useless. That all life is utterly meaningless and cruel. Our brains CAN do both. Which is right?

I'd agree with you- that there is an incredible amount of suffering in this world. There doesn't seem to be a reason for it either. So- is there a God or isn't there? Guessing you're answer is 'no'. Then- who or what is torturing us? Life? Does life have an end goal? Is life conscious? Is it capable of acting malliciously? Maybe it's chance. Is chance good or bad- maybe it's neither- maybe it just IS. So- does that make life intrinsically good or intrinsically bad? Perhaps neither too- perhaps it just IS...

Of course- where I would agree with you is- bringing a life into this world is (in my opinion) unfair because (in my opinion), the bad outweighs the good. There's EVERY chance that that person may end up struggling and depressed. Still- unless you know otherwise- life doesn't come about by magic. It is born from creatures too randy or in love to resist having sex.

There are so many questions you raise in your post which I could write a book on each to provide my proof for. But let me just disprove that there is a God and then no afterlife. Anyone who wants to believe in God or religion don't read this because these are just my beliefs .

This is just one or a few reasons why I don't believe there is a God or afterlife but i have thousands based on research I did on the brain books, the cell , evolution , Dna, ai , neurosience , biology etc.

One of my understandings of some religions is that there is a God or programmer that is watching you. Ok so how boring would it be for a God to watch me a monkey all day long . I would go absolutely insane with boredom watching me any human or a monkey mouse all day long. What do I do all day the same crap every day I have to to exist in this hell , sleep get up , shower , dress, wash clothes , clean , take out trash , wash dishes , eat, brush teeth , grocery shop work , fix problems , work all day long and many other same ridiculous crap. I hate doing all this crap every day that are boring to me much less to someone else a god or programmer to watch. I say programmer to debunk the computer simulation argument too. And to further say that this poor being has to watch all 8 billion humans at the same time. Ok a human has 50,000 thoughts per day so all those are monitored and judged too by God ? This sounds so implausible and for what reason to create animals that will suffer , get diseases , accident and suffer extreme pain and agony for years sometimes and then die. Why is that good or good to a supreme being to watch humans / animals all day long?

Why would an omnipotent superintelligent being sentence itself to watching 8 billion humans doing the same boring things every day? I don't see a reason.

I don't know maybe it's me but i don't see the purpose in a bug, rat , or me crossing the street eating , being hungry suffering , getting diseases, becoming old and dying anyway. I think i am the same as that fly , rat or monkey .I have 92% the exact same genes as a rat , I don't see why that considered so good for an ominpotent super intelligent being to create and then observe .

What makes sense to me is that Humans wrote books saying God is watching you so you have to do A, b, c or you'll go to hell . And that is to have power , control , influence over other humans.

So there is no intelligent design to life not created by a God. Life was just an accident of chaos. Random chemicals combined for millions of years of chemical evolution to finally result in a DNA molecule that could replicate itself around 3.7 billion years ago. DNA is a consequence of chemical reactions and doesn't know you exist but it's only purpose is to replicate

Origin of life -- a prebiotic route to DNA

DNA, the hereditary material, may have appeared on Earth earlier than has been assumed hitherto. Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet (LMU) in Munich chemists led by Oliver Trapp show that a simple reaction pathway could have given rise to DNA subunits on the early Earth.

www.eurekalert.org

 

[FuneralCry]

I think that the point and appeal to this place is to find out how to ctb, I'm pretty sure that's why people come here in the first place as nowhere else allows information about suicide methods.

It's literally a suicide site so the purpose is in the name and any kind of disgusting pro life views such as gatekeeping suicide should have no place here, as well as any kind of unsolicited 'life improving' advice which is usually invalidating and also embarrassing pro life toxic positivity platitudes don't belong in suicide discussions. If people want to preach positivity so much then there's the recovery section for that, it's wrong to force the whole 'recovery' type nonsense on people who just want to die, as this is the only place where people can vent about this subject and discuss it, people don't come on here to have their feelings invalidated by someone who knows absolutely nothing about their life.

Everywhere else in this world is so pro life so what gives pro lifers the right to come on here as well and spread their harmful beliefs. Not everyone views life as being a valuable gift, I view existing as being something useless and disturbing and I don't see any benefit to endlessly suffering just to deteriorate from old age.
I cannot stand anything positive themed or pro life, pro lifers are literally so insane to me to want to force others to exist against their wishes.

 

[myownpetvirus]

I'm of the opinion that right to die should be available for anyone for any reason over the age of 25, and over 18 for people with a medical condition. I don't think I should be banned for that opinion and it is very clear there are young people that seem like they don't even want to do it and actually seem to have options to move forward and I was just empathizing with them. There are plenty of people here that would stick around if they had hope. Also plenty that are certain there is no future for them. I was speaking to the first group specifically as I feel empathy for them be just want to hug them. I don't know how my post was interpreted as a "everyone gets better" post I thought I made it pretty clear that is not what I was saying. However I also need to take into account that most people who end up on this board have likely thought it through or sought help in some form or another

 

[Forever Sleep]

One of my understandings of some religions is that there is a God or programmer that is watching you. Ok so how boring would it be for a God to watch me a monkey all day long . I would go absolutely insane with boredom watching me any human or a monkey mouse all day long. What do I do all day the same crap every day I have to to exist in this hell , sleep get up , shower , dress, wash clothes , clean , take out trash , wash dishes , eat, brush teeth , grocery shop work , fix problems , work all day long and many other same ridiculous crap. I hate doing all this crap every day that are boring to me much less to someone else a god or programmer to watch. I say programmer to debunk the computer simulation argument too. And to further say that this poor being has to watch all 8 billion humans at the same time. Ok a human has 50,000 thoughts per day so all those are monitored and judged too by God ? This sounds so implausible and for what reason to create animals that will suffer , get diseases , accident and suffer extreme pain and agony for years sometimes and then die. Why is that good or good to a supreme being to watch humans / animals all day long?

I do actually agree with you and I have serious doubts about there being a God or supreme being/designer behind all this.

Still- I would say- IF there is- it seems extremely likely that such a being would be capable of things we simply can't comprehend. If they indeed created the universe- we haven't got the first clue of how they do what they do.

I think your argument is based upon assuming this 'God' has mere human capabilities. That he/she/it would need to physically watch and witness your entire life to know what you did. If God can supposedly create the entire world in six days, I doubt they need to witness your life to know what you did in it... They'll be some miracullous way they know. Plus, I'm assuming God would be a good multitasker if they are doing all the things we attribute to them.

I think the 'problem' we have when trying to contemplate complete unknowns is- we tend to be limited by our own experience. How can we possibly imagine what heaven/God might be like when we are mere humans? We simply can't get our heads around the logistics of it because we have nothing to compare it to. (Maybe super heroes in fiction.) That likely either means it is all stories or if it's all real- there's no way any of us could comprehend what God is and how they do what they do.

That all said though- I do lean more to there not being a God and like you say- that religion has been created by those in power to control the masses.

 

[Rainy_days]

What do you think? Is it a place welcome to ALL ideas surrounding suicide? (Including those we might not really like- such as 'gate keeping' it from younger members.) Or is it more a 'safe space' kept clear of pro-life ideas and platitudes- because we get enough of them in the real world?

Safe place most definitely. Opposing opinions might be technically allowed but will face a whole lot of hostility. But I don't think safe space is automatically good or bad. People who are suicidal face a lot of aggression and coercion disguised as benevolent "for their own good". In this sense it is good to have a safe space from that in order to speak freely. However, there is also the case where a person is stuck in myopic, self-destructive views and would be better off not having them constantly repeated and reinforced. So it's a mixed bag.

 

[Wannagonow]

I think that the point and appeal to this place is to find out how to ctb, I'm pretty sure that's why people come here in the first place as nowhere else allows information about suicide methods.

It's literally a suicide site so the purpose is in the name and any kind of disgusting pro life views such as gatekeeping suicide should have no place here, as well as any kind of unsolicited 'life improving' advice which is usually invalidating and also embarrassing pro life toxic positivity platitudes don't belong in suicide discussions. If people want to preach positivity so much then there's the recovery section for that, it's wrong to force the whole 'recovery' type nonsense on people who just want to die, as this is the only place where people can vent about this subject and discuss it, people don't come on here to have their feelings invalidated by someone who knows absolutely nothing about their life.

Everywhere else in this world is so pro life so what gives pro lifers the right to come on here as well and spread their harmful beliefs. Not everyone views life as being a valuable gift, I view existing as being something useless and disturbing and I don't see any benefit to endlessly suffering just to deteriorate from old age.
I cannot stand anything positive themed or pro life, pro lifers are literally so insane to me to want to force others to exist against their wishes.

Once in a while I might have a hard time wrapping my head around your posts (that's on me). I always read them, respect them and alot of the time learn from them. What you wrote here couldn't be more spot- on. This site is designed to support those who are looking for different kinds of support as they deal with thoughts or plans of suicide. So that this site is inclusive, there's a recovery section. In my mind, never the two should meet. (I do realize everything can't be black and white all the time though). Thanks for your post.

 

[GasMonkey]

Discussion and research of peaceful methods.