Venting Venting: a notice pattern on the forum

[Seered Doom]

As someone with C-PTSD, yeah, you're right. There's a reason this place has one of, if not, the highest rates of nihilism and doomposts. It's because it's literally censured everywhere else. Anyone have an episode that's not the cutesy type people are fine with generally? They get cut off and ostricised from any spaces they were in and catcalled beyond belief. It's repulsive. There's a reason to why things exist the way they do and this post isn't helping matters. There's a recovery section, while neglected mostly, people still do post there and while I understand why OP posted, like most have said here, it did come off as offensive.

 

[thewalkingdread]

Its like going to a vegan forum, but not able to fully understand why the members aren't discussing more about the beauty of eating meat

This is a very good analogy. It's just like that.

It's like when a party of vegans is gathered in a park, having a veggie barbecue, for a picnic day out in the open.

And, out of nowhere, then comes a nosy "barbecue expert" to say that what they're doing is no barbecue at all, because there is no meat in it.

It's just fucking insufferably annoying, inopportune and, above all, untactful.

 

[R_N]

This is a very good analogy. It's just like that.

It's like when a party of vegans is gathered in a park, having a veggie barbecue, for a picnic day out in the open.

And, out of nowhere, then comes a nosy "barbecue expert" to say that what they're doing is no barbecue at all, because there is no meat in it.

It's just fucking insufferably annoying, inopportune and, above all, untactful.

Meat can be so tasty. Unfortunate for killed and eaten but fortunate for those who had a feast. At least until their own demise.

Life is truly a beautiful thing like op said. Lets trust our feelings and ignore the ruthless reality around us for those suffering and those yet to suffer.

 

[Necrosis]

I think it's ridiculous to say that both sides are the only right way of thinking. People are so different. So many difference circumstances. You can't just say that one way of thinking is right for everybody. I think this site enables both the "never give up, it'll get better" for those who TRULY have tried and have nothing left, and the "its pointless give up its easier" for people who haven't taken first steps in certain directions who are getting cut off. I'd like to think I have enough empathy to see both sides pretty fairly. But it is so frustrating to see some posts from people who clearly are stuck facing one corner of it all.

This is a very good analogy. It's just like that.

It's like when a party of vegans is gathered in a park, having a veggie barbecue, for a picnic day out in the open.

And, out of nowhere, then comes a nosy "barbecue expert" to say that what they're doing is no barbecue at all, because there is no meat in it.

It's just fucking insufferably annoying, inopportune and, above all, untactful.

I think this analogy isn't appropriate. The site is used to talk about all aspects of both sides. The closer analogy would to say this site is used to talk about different diets, what people have tried, enjoyed, failed at, etc. there's enough room to see both sides, and yes there's strict vegetarians and meat enjoyers but some of them like to coexist or hear about what its like on the other side. This site does not strictly encourage one side, but gives a space for resources and free speech. I'll admit the "disturbing the peace" happens on both sides and it can be pretty out of place. It's annoying but I personally can't say one side is more guilty than the other. it just seems that way if you spend too much time one a certain side.

 

[MrDarkness]

Oh... I definitely remember this thread... it's this one: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-more-pro-death-than-pro-choice.141865/page-2

Do you want to know why I vividly remember it?! Because you were being as disrespectful, condescending and dismissive as you are now in this present thread.

In that thread you've mentioned, you wrote:


And, back then, I tried to educate you on a subject that you — obviously and clearly! — have no intellectual honesty/maturity to debate:


You replied to my respectful and informative remark with sarcasm, disdain, debauchery... mocking me and, even worse, the subject at hand:



Can you see that you are misbehaving in the same disrespectful way now as you were back then?!

If you can't, I'm "sorry" — not really, though! — to inform you the following bad news.


I agree with you in this point. You know you deserve to be called a pro-lifer because that's what you are. A suicidal one, though... (But only because life didn't go the "right" way you expected... Right?! Because, if It did went your way, you would probably be bashing us all, i.e. suicidal people, with your nasty arrogance and your invalidating, glib, petty, condescension)

You knew exactly that this thread was going to piss people off because that's precisely what you wanted to do. You're a cheap provocateur. (It doesn't really matter If you are fully concious of this fact or not)

Your real intent was to push your pro-life indoctrination while surreptiticiously disguising it with the suposedly "good intention" of making this forum a more "balanced", "positive", "agreeable" place... for suicidal pro-lifers like yourself.


But... you couldn't care less, even if you really tried. You've demonstrated that you only care about yourself.
.

You insulted me in that previous thread and you continue to do it here, to say I'm pro life is the dumbest argument I've heard, you can go through my post to history and goodbye threads of people I've lost and the suicide info I got and my old goodbye thread, I'm not going to argue you with you

To everyone who reads his message and thinks I'm garbage, your twisting words and I'm not gonna bother, I'm just gonna report and move on

This forum is literally for people who only want to die, or on the edge of dying, but not able to take that final step because its not easy. So basically just stuck here on earth, and feeling the daily torture of it

Therefore if you were expecting something more positive or uplifting, this will definitely not be the place for it. Because if a person were to feel positive with life, then this naturally wouldn't even be a place they would hang out in, to begin with. This is a suicide forum for a reason, so should be the absolute last place you would expect too much "positive outlook" behaviors from

Its like going to a vegan forum, but not able to fully understand why the members aren't discussing more about the beauty of eating meat

Also, its not like there aren't other forums and sites out there that discuss happier things. So if that type of discussion is desired, then can simply resort to those sites instead

Otherwise its just expecting unrealistic things from the incorrect place

as i said im not looking for anything uplifting or preachy etc, but what i dont like is the same copy and paste pasting. Im sure ive done some copy and pasting. but to use t

if you were expecting something more positive or uplifting

i known plenty of people who used this site for finding friends and connecting, not for copy and pasting.

Now I just wanna state, I know this thread is going to piss people off, I'll probably be called a pro lifer or "why are you even here" I've attempted so many times and plan on doing it again sooner. I'm sorry if this thread invalidates others

awhile ago I read a post by venin, saying how this forum, the suicide forum, not off topic not chat, is more pro death then pro choice, and the disregard of slight of recovery.
What is pro death?
The belief that death is the only fix

This is probably due to the constant doom posting of the exact same copy and paste, that life is a prison. Life has no purpose. Nothing matters. Nothing changes. I think these views are extremely sheltered and immature, and really shows that some people don't have a grasp of the world. During my time on the site I'm seeing more and more threads of the repeated topic. And the massive increase of nihilism

Why? Is it just venting the frustration at the world? Or is it ways for others to fit in, or is it people trying to be the same. Or just people who don't want to bother to see any improvement and complain But what worries me is that for others who are curious or are wanting info to end their lives, will be told, that recovery is false or impossible, like the amount of times I've been told that therapy is shit etc is staggering, like do you realize that so many things effect therapy, trauma, depression. The doctors the meds etc.

I just wanna say, the world isn't as doom and gloom as other put it to be, this world has beauty, sure you gotta dig through shit to find it but it's there. The belief that nothing matters is wrong. You have friends and love ones that care, you can laugh and smile, you at least have some happy memories. so there is clearly something that matters. I'm not trying to invalidate others trauma, but at times it's worrying seeing that help/recovery is completely disregarded. I love this site and I've met some wonderful people here.

I cant edit the thread so ill do a partial update.

My mistake, i should've just put a thought discussion, to understand, What some people think, Im curious as what's people takes are, This thread was not suppose to be a way to insult or shame people, But a way to discuss about the topic. Im well aware this thread isnt perfect and can be offensive to others.
But to those who portrayed proper and kind criticism, Thank you. my view has changed as with every discussion. ill reply to a bit more in the thread, then im unwatching it.

 

[Tesha]

I find the ignore function works beautifully. There's some members that absolutely do my head in with their constant and repetitive nihilism… but rather than put myself through the stress of reading their (in my opinion) shite, I no longer see it. It's been rather refreshing and has saved me a fair bit of self internalised annoyance.

I presume some people have ignored me too. Fine by me.

 

[SexyIncél]

But to those who portrayed proper and kind criticism, Thank you. my view has changed as with every discussion.

That's unusual & good to hear! Not many have the integrity to say that

 

[tiger b]

Those that want to be understood must first seek to understand. Otherwise there is no real communication, just classification.

OP, you have a right to your opinion, but the opinions you state about beauty etc in your opening post are just that...opinions. No fact in them at all. And those that run contrary are still opinions. In my opinion, that post was pro-life, but that doesn't necessarily make you a pro-lifer. And so what anyway.

The individual ultimately decides what's beautiful and if it's worth digging through the crap for the gold - which could be iron pyrite. One man's horse shit is another's gardening solution. And what makes gold valuable in the first place? It's not its amazing properties, that's for sure.

This is the suicide discussion place, ok, this is pretty much as negative (at times) as it can get when it comes to uncensored human communication. I'm not saying that to you per se, but anyone coming here needs to be mindful of that. There is going to be nihilism at times. Not every post will suit everyone. There are a few posters whom I will see a post from and think 'ugh, not again' but you know what? A second later, I realise I know nothing about them and it's not all about me. And I'm glad they've some part of something they feel they can be remotely themselves in. Even if I have little understanding of their circumstances.

you couldn't have said it better, im just saying that doom posting should be changed with making others happy and comfort those who about to attempt, then the looming dread yk

'Should'?

Should is an interesting word. Who do you think is the arbiter of what 'should' be?

I'd agree with that if you're talking about the recovery section.

To be honest, maybe six months ago I'd be saying what you've been saying here, so I've no intention of being hyper-critical.

 

[thewalkingdread]

You insulted me in that previous thread

No, I — factually and objectively! — did not. Venin's thread is available for anyone interested in making up his mind for himself.

You were the one who started offending me with your disrespectful, glib, debauchery. (Just like you did, all over this new thread, with other people.)

After you replied to me with your immature sarcasm twice, I've decided that I would only reply to you in the same manner you like to treat people with whom you disagree.

And, of course, you didn't like that because no one likes the taste of their own "medicine".

and you continue to do it here

No, I don't.

I have only applied once again the same Newton's third law in order to reply to you. As I've clearly stated above... for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction.

And I did that only because I saw, through this new thread, that you were still in need of more doses of your own "medicine". So... open up your mouth, kid!

To everyone who reads his message and thinks I'm garbage, your twisting words

No one needs to read my reply to you in order to conclude that' I'm not the one twisting anything around here... It's you.

And I will prove It:

Not everyone feels or thinks like you, I'm glad you feel like you can overcome whatever demons lead you here--but that isn't the case for everyone else. Have you seen the amount of Goodbye threads? How tone deaf can you be?

Except for the "tone deaf" remark, which was uncalled for, @AInilam replied to you in a mostly decent, respectful manner.

And what did you do...?!

You did THIS:

tone deaf lmao, ive lost friends to suicide, but to use the excuse "amount of Goodbye threads" is just insulting the dead.

what a way to shit on the dead, people die for different reasons, the friends ive lost had beliefs that the doom posting doesnt help

using my dead friends as an excuse to invalidate people

You nuked him! Just because he pointed out the vast amount of goodbye threads in this forum, you've accused him of shitting on dead people.

Do I need to repeat the last paragraph for you to realize how you are the only one twisting things around here!?

That, in itself, is the most shitty and disgusting thing you did in this whole thread. It's a most vile accusation to do. And you repeated this bullcrap, not for one, not for two, but for three — 3! — fucking times!

If this is not you blameshifting, I don't know what else is...

Good luck reporting me.

 

[tiger b]

And I will prove It:

You gleefully proved something, all right.

 

[thewalkingdread]

You gleefully proved something, all right.

Don't tread on me. Nothing else matters... And justice for all!

#Metallica

 

[tiger b]

No, you're being a vengeful prat imo. Admittedly, a prat with good taste in music, I give you that (not quite as good as Megadeath hoho). But this is over a thread what, five or six weeks ago. And you didn't hold much back there. So come on, bullying ain't a good look.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'm guessing some people want to make this site like every other place on the internet and irl. How are people going to know the true nature of reality if different ideas are censored? this is the only place that i know of you can say life is bad.

I wish more than anything i was never born. The only reason I was born is that every ancestor of mine thought that "Life is good" before they reproduced. Obviously if they had thought "Life is bad " "non-existence is good" they wouldn't have reproduced. I know i haven't had any children nor will I as a male chimpanzee. imo the censoring of the arguments for why life is bad and there is no purpose to life are the reason many are being born. yeah my ancestors i'm guessing were young when reproduced , don't know if later they changed their mind when older. I wish i could go back in time and change some of my ancestors minds into not reproducing or stop them from meeting reproducing .If people knew 1/1000 of the things i found out about how bad pain life and suffering can get they would never have children

Would any of you exchange some "good" things in life for 60 minutes of the constant worst pain ? what about for 1 month without a seconds' letup of the worst pain ? What "good" or "pleasurable" things in this hell called life would you exchange for that? is watching a sunset , nature, eating a sandwich , watching a video so called pleasurable things worth that worst pain? i don't think so . and no one is immune to that pain .

 

[tiger b]

The only reason I was born is that every ancestor of mine thought that "Life is good" before they reproduced.

Lucky you! Mine thought that "Alcohol is good"...

 

[thewalkingdread]

You see... there is a difference in your tone from OP's tone.

Although you disagree with me and with my apparent "vengeful" attitude, we can have a respectful, constructive, conversation... Because you seem genuinely interested in having a honest dialogue. I appreciate that, regardless of how harsh opinions may get.

OP's attitude is one of provocative debauchery... And that changes everything. At least it does for me — for I really dislike people doing this kind of infantile buffoonery while having a serious discussion.

you're being a vengeful prat

Well, I wouldn't say 'vengeful'... I would say retributive — like in Newton's third law.

As to regarding me as being a prat, well, anyone is entitled to have their personal opinion about me. It's all good.

But this is over a thread what, five or six weeks ago. And you didn't hold much back there.

I won't deny that there was a bad history between me and OP. That's a fact. But my reaction to this new thread only happened because OP really triggered me into to it... His reference to the old thread "rekindled" all the previous "bad blood".

And I really did got outraged by some of his remarks. Accusing someone else of "shitting on dead people" is a very repulsive, low leved, disgusting thing to do.

 

[MrDarkness]

No, I — factually and objectively! — did not. Venin's thread is available for anyone interested in making up his mind for himself.

You were the one who started offending me with your disrespectful, glib, debauchery. (Just like you did, all over this new thread, with other people.)

After you replied to me with your immature sarcasm twice, I've decided that I would only reply to you in the same manner you like to treat people with whom you disagree.

And, of course, you didn't like that because no one likes the taste of their own "medicine".


No, I don't.

I have only applied once again the same Newton's third law in order to reply to you. As I've clearly stated above... for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction.

And I did that only because I saw, through this new thread, that you were still in need of more doses of your own "medicine". So... open up your mouth, kid!


No one needs to read my reply to you in order to conclude that' I'm not the one twisting anything around here... It's you.

And I will prove It:


Except for the "tone deaf" remark, which was uncalled for, @AInilam replied to you in a mostly decent, respectful manner.

And what did you do...?!

You did THIS:




You nuked him! Just because he pointed out the vast amount of goodbye threads in this forum, you've accused him of shitting on dead people.

Do I need to repeat the last paragraph for you to realize how you are the only one twisting things around here!?

That, in itself, is the most shitty and disgusting thing you did in this whole thread. It's a most vile accusation to do. And you repeated this bullcrap, not for one, not for two, but for three — 3! — fucking times!

If this is not you blameshifting, I don't know what else is...

Good luck reporting me.

You want me to quote you insulting me lmao, cause I can

 

[Krisis]

There are some clear problems with this post. For one, I don't even think it's sufficient to claim that it belongs under the "Recovery" forum because OP is definitely minimizing a lot of what people are going through, and is interfering with the relative safety that this place provides them with their platitudes. It's not controversial to make the claim that a lot of people here, probably the majority, are mentally ill, so stepping over what they say with unhelpful statements like "this world has beauty", whilst failing to show any sympathy for the immense suffering and potential disease that underlie what they say, is problematic, to say the least.

I won't discuss these issues further since they've been pointed out more effectively than likely what I am capable of doing. However, there is one crucial idea that you present that you should have focused on, which is the notion of being pro-death. The existence of that viewpoint on this forum, which nobody can deny, is frankly alarming, and it deserves every bit of criticism that gets thrown its way.

This forum that this post is under should be dedicated to people who want assistance on committing suicide and to not face judgement for it. But that doesn't include the active encouraging of suicide. It is ultimately up to us as individuals to decide what we wish to do with our lives, but if people here seriously cannot see the issue with posts that seem to admonish people for choosing to live, and I am not trying to be provocative when I say this, that is evil.

Just to elaborate a little--if someone wants to commit suicide, should refusing to push them in the opposite direction be considered equivalent to encouraging it? What is absolutely true is that if one person wants to die and wants help on how they should go about doing it, they deserve to be free of the expectation that those who respond will try to "save" them. But the posts that view suicide as a mandatory conclusion contradict the very idea of being pro-choice, and it's pure hypocrisy that these people dare to call out those that view life as mandatory as being anti-choice.

I understand this places me in a position by which I must oppose antinatalism, and I am perfectly fine with that, because antinatalism is wrong. If you believe life has no value, that's your prerogative, but its indefensible to force this onto other people.

There's also the issue of the overwhelming representation of youth on the forum, which complicates all of this even further by making everything I've said especially important.

If you are to take away one thing from this, please have it be that encouraging suicide is not pro-choice; it's the exact opposite.

 

[thewalkingdread]

You want me to quote you insulting me lmao, cause I can

No need to quote me, kid... Here's the straight dope: you are an insufferable, spoiled, buffoon.

 

[tiger b]

Well, I wouldn't say 'vengeful'... I would say retributive — like in Newton's third law.

Ah fuck his law, the internet wasn't around in the 17th Century!

As to regarding me as being a prat, well, anyone is entitled to have their personal opinion about me. It's all good.

Only on your recent response, the action, not the main thrust of your opinion. I don't presume to have an opinion on 'you'. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear, I've no intention of being rude in that way.

And I really did got outraged by some of his remarks. Accusing someone else of "shitting on dead people" is a very repulsive, low leved, disgusting thing to do.

Fair dos. Don't think the dead can complain much, though.

 

[FallingGrace]

This forum either needs major reform or a "separation of state", so to speak. A separate sub forum for venting, a Philosophy sub for FunCry to wax lyrical on nihilistic and anti-natalist rhetoric with fellow non-suicidal members who just enjoy the LARP, and finally a place for the grown ups to speak candidly about the nitty gritty of methods, funeral arrangement, and post-death bureaucracy such as DNRs and wills. The place is a fucking mess. There are minors everywhere, and people are increasingly criticised for offering alternative solutions to what are clearly rushed or poorly thought out suicide attempts.

 

[tiger b]

There's also the issue of the overwhelming representation of youth on the forum, which complicates all of this even further by making everything I've said especially important.

Can you explain further? And how are you sure it's an 'overwhelming representation of youth'?

 

[MrDarkness]

No need to quote me, kid... Here's the straight dope: you are an insufferable, spoiled, buffoon.

Ironic

 

[thewalkingdread]

Don't think the dead can complain much, though

But this wasn't only about the dead. It was about making a vile accusation against another member in this thread...

 

[Krisis]

Can you explain further? And how are you sure it's an 'overwhelming representation of youth'?

Obviously, there's a lot of young people here. Independent of this making the most sense, it's just an observable fact. And my point was that young people are not necessarily in the greatest of conditions for making decisions. I am not arguing that they do not have the right to commit suicide but rather they deserve very serious attention so that they can make as informed a decision as possible. In light of this, they are also more affected by pro-suicide posts, of course.

 

[tiger b]

Ok ok ok.

Well, I'll leave you guys to patch things up.

Obviously, there's a lot of young people here. Independent of this making the most sense, it's just an observable fact. And my point was that young people are not necessarily in the greatest of conditions for making decisions. I am not arguing that they do not have the right to commit suicide but rather they deserve very serious attention so that they can make as informed a decision as possible. In light of this, they are also more affected by pro-suicide posts, of course.

Obviously? People don't post their ages...and actually, most people don't post! So I don't know how you conclude the ages of those 'here' that in any satisfactory manner, let alone call it a fact. Confirmation bias?

People of all ages aren't necessarily in the greatest of conditions for making decisions.

Presuming that 'they' are more affected by suicide posts is just that. The very serious attention thing should apply to everyone, rather than an arbitrary group of anyone over 18.

The age of posting is 18. If you suspect people being younger, you should report them to the mods. They have no place here, for obvious reasons.

Of course you're welcome to your own opinions. But please don't dress it up as fact.

 

[Krisis]

Obviously? People don't post their ages...and actually, most people don't post! So I don't know how you conclude the ages of those 'here' that in any satisfactory manner, let alone call it a fact. Confirmation bias?

Really? I find it hard to believe that you find this controversial.

Presuming that 'they' are more affected by suicide posts is just that. The very serious attention thing should apply to everyone, rather than an arbitrary group of anyone over 18.

Well, I should have been clearer with my language, for which I apologize. I meant that young people should be given more attention than usual, not that they are the only ones who should be given serious attention.

Also, I suppose we disagree on what should be considered "young"; it's not restricted to people under 18. But I concede I didn't make this clear either, so I apologize for that as well.

Of course you're welcome to your own opinions. But please don't dress it up as fact.

I disagree with this characterization. It is not a matter of dressing up things as facts as it is merely stating them. If you find it disagreeable that it's clear an internet forum created in 2018, dedicated to suicide, filled with posts by young people, contains a lot of young people (I didn't even say mostly, mind you), then I don't know what to tell you. Your prizing of absolute proof is admirable, but in this case it's just ridiculous.

 

[Brown-Jacket Revy]

Not everyone wants to give it a chance. I have all the means, therapy for me wouldn't be expensive. I could just pretend to go to therapy, not put in any work, and not care about that money I throw in. Do you think that everyone should give it a chance, even if they don't want to?​

Share the wealth, homie.

 

[tiger b]

Really? I find it hard to believe that you find this controversial.

I find it hard to believe that you seem to be so wedded and in service to presumptions. I don't think presumptions are controversial, but challenging them without malice sometimes can be.

Well, I should have been clearer with my language. I meant that young people should be given more attention than usual, not that they are the only ones who should be given serious attention.

'Should'? Why? I think they 'should' be given more credit for their intelligence and understanding of life, myself.

Also, I suppose we disagree on what should be considered "young"; it's not restricted to people under 18. But I concede I didn't make this clear either, so I apologize for that as well.

I'm going by the legal definition and the definition of this website. It's there for all to see. What else to go by when discussing this place? Who else gets to substitute?

I disagree with this characterization. It is not a matter of dressing up things as facts as it is merely stating them. If you find it disagreeable that it's clear an internet forum created in 2018, dedicated to suicide, filled with posts by young people, contains a lot of young people (I didn't even say mostly, mind you),

Yeah, you said an 'overwhelming representation of youth' - your words - but suddenly that's less than 'mostly'? Oh please, behave. You are contradicting yourself, and I take no pleasure pointing that out.

then I don't know what to tell you. Your prizing of absolute proof is admirable, but in this case it's just ridiculous.

Don't tell me anything, you're not lecturing to me - and it's not necessary. I don't see what you're trying to achieve by insisting you know something when it's a presumption. You said you had facts, yet you don't. It's not me prizing absolute proof, absolutely not, but you just don't have any vague essence of proof whatsoever. So you cannot be stating facts, yet of course you are entitled to your opinion, based on your personal impressions which I am not criticising.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

i get wym, i think a lot of people wouldn't need this site if they just had a little more gratitude for their lives and didn't shroud their worldview in pessimism. but that's why people kill themselves, they don't accept help and they don't want to change, and it's easier to think you're the victim of some universal unfairness instead of picking yourself up and trying to change your life. it's easier to pity yourself than to change your ways.

I do not want to show gratitude because I did not want to be born in the first place.

 

[Krisis]

I find it hard to believe that you seem to be so wedded and in service to presumptions. I don't think presumptions are controversial, but challenging them without malice sometimes can be.

This is a fair statement to make--just not in this context. It's silly to relegate what I've said to being mere "presumptions".

'Should'? Why? I think they 'should' be given more credit for their intelligence and understanding of life, myself.

Well, I agree with that, but it does not take much to point something like it out. Young people get a lot of abuse piled onto them, and their ability to call it out is admirable and to an extent unprecedented. But that doesn't exclude them from the relative weakness in decision making that their youth inevitably draws them to.

I'm going by the legal definition and the definition of this website. It's there for all to see. What else to go by when discussing this place? Who else gets to substitute?

We're using the word "young" here, not underage. And even following your logic, the legal definition happens to vary globally, not that this takes precedence over the preceding statement.

Yeah, you said an 'overwhelming representation of youth' - your words - but suddenly that's less than 'mostly'? Oh please. You are contradicting yourself, and I take no pleasure pointing that out.

I apologize, but this is just incorrect. "Overwhelming" does not equate to "most"; I was very careful to use it. I encourage you to look up the word for yourself. If it were otherwise, phrases like "overwhelming majority" would be redundant. But I respect your passion here.

Don't tell me anything, you're not lecturing to me - and it's not necessary. I don't see what you're trying to achieve by insisting you know something when it's a presumption. You said you had facts yet you don't. It's not prizing absolute proof, absolutely not, but you just don't have any vague essence of proof whatsoever. So you cannot be stating facts, yet of course you are entitled to your opinion, based on your personal impressions which I am not criticising.

I made reference to "observable facts". Like I've made clear, I don't really know what to tell you about this strange disagreement, but please ignore everything I am telling you if it makes you feel better.