Story Thoughts for next time (about the death of SpentStardust)

[Euthanza]

Dear Tantracrul,
Thank you for searching for the kid and trying to save his life.
You bring a very important issue here.
I have the impression people do not try to help because of being afraid to be labelled pro-lifers and be thrown out of the community. That is why I try to contact the person by PM, when I sense danger.
I totally agree that something must be said and not just a Farewell.
A lot of young people are dying by suicide. It is almost epidemic and It is very, very sad.
Almost 2 years ago I lost my 15 year old son. He took SN.
He was in treatment against depression. But the treatment was not enough. Depression is a serious illness.
He was my sunshine. And I miss him every day.
I see a lot of mental sick people in this forum. I hope I could help. One girl, whom I gave my phone number, I even offered therapy online with my psychologist. She did not want. She killed herself in rage, after discussing with her mother, by jumping out of the apartament's window. She was 19. A brilliant girl from Iran. Poor girl. Poor mother. Poor sister. I talk her sister sometimes. What can we do to help? How to prevent?
I think people should not be bullied If they want to help.
But If you say something clear against suicide, a lot of people get angry, accusing you of being against choices or pro-lifers.
Too much judgement, too little empathy. People are here because they are suffering. Because
they feel an unbearable pain. And they are also alone, disconnect from others, reality and themselves. Can't we offer kind words, instead of methods????
For the bright side, I also see more and more people like you. Who genuinely desire to help. Thank you. From all my heart.

Sorry for your loss but you're in the wrong sub forum, there's recovery section for your savior complex.

People like tantacrul is the cause why peaceful euthanasia were not provided or available for your son. Your son will be in this section with me if he's still alive -there's no way he's a pro lifer, he made up his mind though; he was me and I will be following him, alone because of stupid ass like tantacrul thinks he's helping us with misinformations, instead he makes the very end of our lives much worse than it should be.

 

[Sittichmutter]

Sorry for your loss but you're in the wrong sub forum, there's recovery section for your savior complex.

People like tantacrul is the cause why peaceful euthanasia were not provided or available for your son. Your son will be in this section with me if he's still alive -there's no way he's a pro lifer, he made up his mind though; he was me and I will be following him, alone because of stupid ass like tantacrul thinks he's helping us with misinformations, instead he makes the very end of our lives much worse than it should be.

My son was 15 years old. And he is dead.

 

[Euthanza]

My son was 15 years old. And he is dead.

Respect your son decision even if you think he was unable to think for himself at that moment, it was his last action. He needed a bit of last acceptance.

You won't be changing anything with tantacruel and I don't think tantacruel is respecting your son decision even he knows nothing about him.

RIP, again my deep condolence for your loss.

 

[SexyIncél]

Sorry for your loss. I hope you can see that we really do help people. For example, you wrote:

One girl, whom I gave my phone number, I even offered therapy online with my psychologist. She did not want. She killed herself in rage, after discussing with her mother, by jumping out of the apartament's window. She was 19. A brilliant girl from Iran. Poor girl. Poor mother. Poor sister. I talk her sister sometimes. What can we do to help? How to prevent?

Here's something I never mentioned before. Like you, I offered a therapist to someone I met here. Someone pushing hard for suicide. They took it, for one session! Due to other things we've done, they're now motivated to live.

How does this work? People have root problems. If you solve those, they live. If you fail, maybe they die. That's it.

That's it.

Therapists aren't solutions. They're tools. This therapist I mentioned is a rare radical mental health worker, unlike the mediocre normies capable of producing a Tantacrul. The point was to demonstrate that a different world exists, hidden in this world.

Society is deadly. It pushes literally tons of people here, just like Tantacrul did. Some of the world's harder cases. Nothing stops you from building a team that solves people's problems.

Can't we offer kind words, instead of methods????

I also offered that person multiple methods; not just therapy or kind words. They're motivated to live. You didn't, and the Iranian you tried helping died.

Why is that? Well obviously, I don't know details of the Iranian woman. If you're serious about using her as a case study, we need details, especially from her perspective. Everything can turn on a tiny detail.

Thus, proactive listening is vital.

But anyway, if someone's helping me, I trust them more if they help me in the way I want. Then I'll listen to their other ideas. My problems are less likely to be solved by a patronizing know-it-all who's working against me.

Dear Tantracrul,
Thank you for searching for the kid and trying to save his life.

This self-promoting youtuber didn't do shit to save his life. To the contrary, out of sheer hubris and incompetence, he refused to listen and brought literally tons of people here.

Look beyond people's beautiful words. See what their hands are doing.

You have a choice to stop being a normie. And start being effective.

 

[OvekjasMoremó-S.A]

@Jonels I can tell your thoughts and words are coming from a good place. However let me ask you to imagine someone who has exhausted all their options or tried every treatment available. Those who are treatment resistant and live with severe depression and anhedonia, some days cant even get out of bed. its a state of existing not living and its torture. Would you rather keep this person "alive" even though they are in a constant state of pain and suffering? Who are we really concern with at that point?

Im super late(newbie here), and im not into this "polemic" and encourage/harass people to commit suicide. But i just want to say i love you. Makes me want to cry know that are people who can understand this shit. Problably read this was the most nice thing that happen to me this last year. Im still schizofrenic, depress and anhedonic, and probably always be. But not so alone now, i guess :')

 

[Bunnymmm]

Looking at all the people that support him, it ain't going to be pretty for us.

 

[Lupgevif]

1. Is the person under age?
2. Has the person ever taken steps to try and receive treatment?
3. Had the person ever spoken to a professional?

Weird way to say you joined the forum without reading the most important rules.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

Why?That dude doesn't deserve an ounce of attention.

 

[blacksand]

It's always muh helplines isn't it ? Just lol.

 

[FutureHanger]

Don't be silly; that would never happen.

top 10 moments before disaster

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Fuck, I didn't want to see his smug mug again!

 

[The Tablet]

unlike the mediocre normies capable of producing a Tantacrul.

this made me snort. thanks for that :)

 

[perfect_stranger]

You're completely deluded if you can't understand how disgusting all you've done is. Everyone should have access to a dignified death (even minors). I'm a nurse and I see people begging for a cyanide pill every day, all these people end up dying horrible deaths. The decision on whether or not a person should die is not yours, it's up to them to decide. People have a right to self-determination. No one is saying that "everyone should die". The argument is that people shouldn't be forced to live through hell against their will, simple as that.

-you don't like being challenged. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps you can suck up constructive criticism.

Wrong. You're the only person here who doesn't like to be challenged. The only reason you're posting here is because you can't handle the fact that there exists a safe space for damaged individuals to speak out without facing censorship. Snowflake.

I would go as far as to say that your attempts to get this site shut down could very well lead to people's mental state worsening. Has it occurred to you that some people may very well have found refuge and companionship here? What about the kind words people share to try and support one another? What about the people who don't have anyone in their lives to vent/confess to? What about those who are too ashamed to do it in person?

It's tiring to come on here and see pro lifers. It's not a pro life forum. It's a forum respecting people's choices about whether they choose to live or die. If someone wants to die then that is their right and their decision and this should be respected. Nobody should be forced to exist against their wishes, it's a personal decision when to leave this world, and life should be seen as a choice rather than something to be prolonged at all costs.

Why should we have any say in what others do with their lives, we are not experiencing life the same way as them. People come on here to escape from pro life attitudes that are everywhere else in this world. The reality is that in this world some people want to die, I know that this offends pro life people who could never understand and believe that everyone can be 'saved'. I don't get why you need to bring this on here. If someone dies then they are no longer suffering and are at rest. I doubt the person that you are posting about would wish to be spoke about in that way. And I believe that if someone ctb by a method as horrific as the train then they must be really desperate to die. Maybe people should learn to be respectful towards the right to die.

Indeed. If people had access to euthanasia they wouldn't have to resort to methods as gruesome as the one in question.

 

[iusedtobehappy]

So deeply sorry for the mother's loss. 15 is far too young. Being that age, not quite a child, not quite an adult, and the stress of high school and trying to fit in is such a hard thing. So very sorry. There are not enough words to express my empathy.

The one thing I can add with all certainty is that people don't come here to die. I guarantee that in 99%, if not 100%, of all cases, people first decide to die and then either stumble on here or seek it out, looking for less gruesome ways to do it. No one comes here with no ideation and then decides to because we make it look like it's the thing to do. No one has that power. A person who truly wants to live would never spend time here or seek it out. For those who do not want to continue, it's a place of refuge in a world that makes them feel so alone.

 

[RadiantNumber]

Sorry for digging up this topic, but I re-watched Tantacrul's video, and I wonder if he would make the video if the person who committed suicide were mid 30 man who were not on his Discord and has mental problems, because this forum is helping such people. Today everyone is trying to help kids, teen what is good, but they forgot about adult, and when forums which help such people starts to exist, helping people who want to die do this from the one side and recover from the other side they are chastised because kids could see this.

Also I see media were crying that kids could watch this, what about adults and young adults who are in crisis?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Sorry for digging up this topic, but I re-watched Tantacrul's video, and I wonder would make the video if the person who committed suicide were mid 30 man who were not on his Discord and has mental problems, because this forum is helping such people. Today everyone is trying to help kids, teen what is good, but they forgot about adult, and when forums which help such people starts to exist, helping people who want to die do this from the one side and recover from the other side they are chastised because kids could see this.

Also I see media were crying that kids could watch this, what about adults and young adults who are in crisis?

Probably not. He cares more about views and feeding his hero complex than me does about suicidal people. If he really cared then he would have presented this place as nuanced instead of demonizing us and acting as though we have a fetish for encouraging others to ctb. The few times in which we do discover minors on here it is always met with people trying to help them and reporting them, not encouraging them to ctb.

He specifically used what happened to that poor teenager to garner more views. He doesn't actually give a shit about him. If that boy were a man in his 30s he wouldn't have said shit about it because "site pushes 30-year-old man to commit suicide" doesn't have the same ring to it.

It's also important to note that people like to use kids and teens as pons to further their own views. At the end of the day, it should be the job of adults in their lives to try and keep them far away from places like these. The site already does what it can to discourage those under 18 from signing up here and bans any member who turns out to be a minor. You have to remember that moral judgements stem from emotion-based intuitions, not from reasoning. The reasoning part comes after the fact. People view the existence of this site as "immoral", and they use minors to justify this view. It's not that they don't care about adults, it's that they need to justify their hatred for this place.

 

[astr4]

every time this thread gets necro'd i fill with rage

 

[RadiantNumber]

It's also important to note that people like to use kids and teens as pons to further their own views. At the end of the day, it should be the job of adults in their lives to try and keep them far away from places like these. The site already does what it can to discourage those under 18 from signing up here and bans any member who turns out to be a minor. You have to remember that moral judgements stem from emotion-based intuitions, not from reasoning. The reasoning part comes after the fact. People view the existence of this site as "immoral", and they use minors to justify this view. It's not that they don't care about adults, it's that they need to justify their hatred for this place.

I agree, they like to use them to show they are protecting them from "such scary thing" , I am glad that bill they mentioned didn't passed

Probably not. He cares more about views and feeding his hero complex than me does about suicidal people. If he really cared then he would have presented this place as nuanced instead of demonizing us and acting as though we have a fetish for encouraging others to ctb. The few times in which we do discover minors on here it is always met with people trying to help them and reporting them, not encouraging them to ctb.

He specifically used what happened to that poor teenager to garner more views. He doesn't actually give a shit about him. If that boy were a man in his 30s he wouldn't have said shit about it because "site pushes 30-year-old man to commit suicide" doesn't have the same ring to it.

People are giving a shit about adults / young adults committing suicide, from various reasons, he was interested because this guy was young and was member of his server, I don't think he would help somebody from here

every time this thread gets necro'd i fill with rage

Sorry I won't do it anymore

 

[astr4]

Sorry I won't do it anymore

ahh i meant in a joking manner sorry i was hoping the emoji usage would clarify

 

[yellowjester]

Why does he look like that? lmao

every time this thread gets necro'd i fill with rage

It's craty that he got so much positive resonance, this dude is an expert gaslighter.

 

[RadiantNumber]

ahh i meant in a joking manner sorry i was hoping the emoji usage would clarify

I see :)

 

[Emeralds]

Probably not. He cares more about views and feeding his hero complex than me does about suicidal people. If he really cared then he would have presented this place as nuanced instead of demonizing us and acting as though we have a fetish for encouraging others to ctb. The few times in which we do discover minors on here it is always met with people trying to help them and reporting them, not encouraging them to ctb.

He specifically used what happened to that poor teenager to garner more views. He doesn't actually give a shit about him. If that boy were a man in his 30s he wouldn't have said shit about it because "site pushes 30-year-old man to commit suicide" doesn't have the same ring to it.

It's also important to note that people like to use kids and teens as pons to further their own views. At the end of the day, it should be the job of adults in their lives to try and keep them far away from places like these. The site already does what it can to discourage those under 18 from signing up here and bans any member who turns out to be a minor. You have to remember that moral judgements stem from emotion-based intuitions, not from reasoning. The reasoning part comes after the fact. People view the existence of this site as "immoral", and they use minors to justify this view. It's not that they don't care about adults, it's that they need to justify their hatred for this place.

The site does nothing to prevent minors from coming on here. People check off a box saying that they are over 18. Anyone can lie. The site isn't even private. Minors can read the method information even if they aren't logged in so it really doesn't matter if they are banned or not.

It's true that the adults in their life do have a responsibility to try to protect them from harmful sites online and be aware of what they are up to and who they are talking to. This doesn't mean that the site holds no responsibility. Any site that has talks about suicide or other self harm content should put in a real effort to prevent minors from having access to it.

This is one valid criticism of the site. If they really wanted to prevent minors from coming on here, they would make the suicide section private.

 

[willitpass]

The site does nothing to prevent minors from coming on here. People check off a box saying that they are over 18. Anyone can lie. The site isn't even private. Minors can read the method information even if they aren't logged in so it really doesn't matter if they are banned or not.

It's true that the adults in their life do have a responsibility to try to protect them from harmful sites online and be aware of what they are up to and who they are talking to. This doesn't mean that the site holds no responsibility. Any site that has talks about suicide or other self harm content should put in a real effort to prevent minors from having access to it.

This is one valid criticism of the site. If they really wanted to prevent minors from coming on here, they would make the suicide section private.

The same argument can and is being used for every other site with information that should not be but is being accessed by minors. TikTok is credited for many trends that have caused severe property damage and even threats to life by minors who aren't supposed to be there. Pornhub just makes you check a quick box in some countries and does absolutely nothing in other countries to prevent minors from seeing it. YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram, Reddit. You name a social media platform and all of them can be linked back to severe harm or death of a minor who wasn't even old enough to be there but was and got involved in harmful information. In the US mainstream social media is to blame for tons and tons of minors learning how to break into Kias and Hundais and easily steal them, resulting in many deaths as minors would recklessly drive them around and get into accidents. And it may be harder to find, but there is information about suicide and self harm on just about all of them if you look in the right places. And while we're at it, why not blame search engines? I found lostallhope and several other websites with information about suicide at 13 with a quick Google search on suicide methods and used it to attempt and nearly succeed at hanging myself. I sought out that information myself, and Google brought me to the website. This website didn't even exist back then. But I'll be damned if anything was going to stop me from finding it. My parents never checked what I was doing online. I had no one to watch what I was doing. Just about everything on the internet has information harmful to minors. If we are going to blame this site for exposing information and only having a quick button to click, you cannot ignore the endless other corners of the internet with harmful information to minors that aren't doing enough to prevent them from being there. The internet is not a safe place for minors, this site is being used as a scapegoat. If a minor wants to access something they should not be accessing on the internet, the only real and true safeguard is guardian monitoring.

I report very liberally when I see a confirmed or suspected minor. Everyone here does their best to keep them out. But what we do is no different than what plenty of other sites with information that minors shouldn't be accessing do. Many don't even bother asking for a quick button to be pressed. The internet should not be for minors. And those caring for them in real life are the ones who should be enforcing that.

 

[maniac116]

This is a forum where it's safe to talk about our true feelings.
Numerous times here I as well as other people have discouraged others regarding a method they chose or asked someone to "take a breath" or "wait a day". In fact it happened yesterday.
There is megathread on this site for recovery resources.
I think it's up to the individual to use them or not.
If we start preaching recovery or anti-suicide rhetoric it won't stop anyone who wants to, to take there own life. And it is, after all their OWN life, nobody else's.
It will alienate them from a website that is "pro choice" & some of the information that is vital in harm reduction.
If this person was under age they certainly shouldn't be on this site but they are asked if they are over 18 before entering.
I have kids myself & would be crushed if they suicide, but if I'm open minded & my kids feel safe to talk to me they can explain their situation to me so I understand & when they end THEIR life I won't have the confusion or questions that families are left with in a suicide.
I understand your point but I guess my point is that there are other points of view that, if respected, could lead to more dialogue regarding suicide.
Some types of pain aren't treatable with Tylenol.
All due respect to you of course!!

 

[Emeralds]

The same argument can and is being used for every other site with information that should not be but is being accessed by minors. TikTok is credited for many trends that have caused severe property damage and even threats to life by minors who aren't supposed to be there. Pornhub just makes you check a quick box in some countries and does absolutely nothing in other countries to prevent minors from seeing it. YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram, Reddit. You name a social media platform and all of them can be linked back to severe harm or death of a minor who wasn't even old enough to be there but was and got involved in harmful information. In the US mainstream social media is to blame for tons and tons of minors learning how to break into Kias and Hundais and easily steal them, resulting in many deaths as minors would recklessly drive them around and get into accidents. And it may be harder to find, but there is information about suicide and self harm on just about all of them if you look in the right places. And while we're at it, why not blame search engines? I found lostallhope and several other websites with information about suicide at 13 with a quick Google search on suicide methods and used it to attempt and nearly succeed at hanging myself. I sought out that information myself, and Google brought me to the website. This website didn't even exist back then. But I'll be damned if anything was going to stop me from finding it. My parents never checked what I was doing online. I had no one to watch what I was doing. Just about everything on the internet has information harmful to minors. If we are going to blame this site for exposing information and only having a quick button to click, you cannot ignore the endless other corners of the internet with harmful information to minors that aren't doing enough to prevent them from being there. The internet is not a safe place for minors, this site is being used as a scapegoat. If a minor wants to access something they should not be accessing on the internet, the only real and true safeguard is guardian monitoring.

I report very liberally when I see a confirmed or suspected minor. Everyone here does their best to keep them out. But what we do is no different than what plenty of other sites with information that minors shouldn't be accessing do. Many don't even bother asking for a quick button to be pressed. The internet should not be for minors. And those caring for them in real life are the ones who should be enforcing that.

No ones arguing that there are other harmful sites on the internet that minors shouldn't be able to have access to. It doesn't matter what other sites allow. What other sites allow or don't allow has nothing to do with this site. It's not an excuse. That's like saying that it's ok to do something you know that you shouldn't because everyone else does it. It doesn't make it ok.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

No ones arguing that there are other harmful sites on the internet that minors shouldn't be able to have access to. It doesn't matter what other sites allow. What other sites allow or don't allow has nothing to do with this site. It's not an excuse. That's like saying that it's ok to do something you know that you shouldn't because everyone else does it. It doesn't make it ok.

We try very hard to keep minors out.
This place was created for adults to have a safe place to talk anonymously about feelings and thoughts that aren't widely accepted.

The anonymity makes people feel comfortable enough to share.

But tell me, would you show us your ID if we asked for it?
Would you talk about the things you talk about knowing that staff here had your real information?

 

[RadiantNumber]

The site does nothing to prevent minors from coming on here. People check off a box saying that they are over 18. Anyone can lie. The site isn't even private. Minors can read the method information even if they aren't logged in so it really doesn't matter if they are banned or not.

It's true that the adults in their life do have a responsibility to try to protect them from harmful sites online and be aware of what they are up to and who they are talking to. This doesn't mean that the site holds no responsibility. Any site that has talks about suicide or other self harm content should put in a real effort to prevent minors from having access to it.

This is one valid criticism of the site. If they really wanted to prevent minors from coming on here, they would make the suicide section private.

I only agree with this part about parents responsibility, maybe they should check what is wrong with their kids, some people are pissed when government tries to control some aspects of their kids life, but when there are some content online they are starting to blame content author for content and government for doing nothing about it

 

[sevennn]

we don't talk anyone into or out of suicide. it's the choice of a person. besides i always marvel at this argument. how can an internet stranger even help? we don't even know where this person is located, etc. are we supposed to call the cops on them. why do people think we have such power we can kill and save people at the same time. we do neither. it's up to you

 

[Emeralds]

We try very hard to keep minors out.
This place was created for adults to have a safe place to talk anonymously about feelings and thoughts that aren't widely accepted.

The anonymity makes people feel comfortable enough to share.

But tell me, would you show us your ID if we asked for it?
Would you talk about the things you talk about knowing that staff here had your real information?

It wouldn't have stopped me from making an account if I had been asked for ID. I would understand that it was to stop kids from coming on here.

With respect, I don't see what the staff is doing to stop minors from coming on here. The site isn't even private. That means minors don't have to make an account in order to see the method information. They can lurk. Banning them after they come on here doesn't accomplish anything. They can still lurk and read about methods. Unless the staff makes the site private, they can't really say they are doing anything.

 

[Unspoken7612]

Only seeing this for the first time, but I recognise a lot of what tantacrul (who I have never heard of, though I've used MuseScore) is saying.

There are a few times mods have told me I've gone too far, and they've probably been right. I've also seen, on several occasions, multiple users respond to a post with "this sounds like something that will blow over, give yourself a bit of time" or things to that effect.

But there's quite a lot about this site that I frankly don't like. There's a small group of users, many with thousands of posts, who attack others for being "pro-life". It's clear that a sizeable portion of the userbase is unable to recognise cognitive distortions, including their own, suggesting that they haven't tried CBT and similar therapies. A lot of passive suicide encouragement goes on (including the classic "I hope you find peace", which is a big no-no in actual prevention but is omnipresent here, although I think it's mostly innocent). There's an incredible amount of barely-coherent cynicism about even the idea that others might get better or deserve treatment, or that anyone might genuinely think suicide is sometimes bad for the person who does it.

I don't think a site with a stickied list of detailed guides on how to commit suicide (including some with cutesy names) can credibly claim to not be pro-suicide, even if it officially isn't "pro-suicide in all situations" or whatever. I'm pro-abortion, but I don't think every pregnant person should get an abortion regardless of whether they want to. I'm pro-drug, but I don't think smoking weed should be compulsory. I'm pro-bike, but I think trains are better if you want to go a long way. This is a pro-suicide site; it's also pro-support and pro-recovery, but it's still pro-suicide.

Don't get me wrong, there are many good things about this site too, not least that many of the users seem to be contemplative, reasonable people who prioritise autonomy and know how to support without encouraging, and when to gently discourage. Most users will see someone getting better as a cause for celebration. But the site is still basically funnelling people towards the edge. I mean, look at this thread - it's so fucking hideous that users responded to someone posting about their teenager committing suicide with posts about how the teenager they didn't know would have agreed with their exact views.