The US is moving backwards.

[Mr. Incapable]

The USA is definitely on the path for a future civil war.. Imagine thinking whatever shit their 'founding fathers' wrote hundreds of years ago is relevant to modern society. Women didn't even have the right to vote back then and they were slave owners… I guess that'll be next if they're not busy shooting each other. The chokehold the church has over the state makes America seem like the biggest cult known to man. (Sorry if that offends any Americans here. As a European, I just don't get it.. at all)

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

The USA is definitely on the path for a future civil war.. Imagine thinking whatever shit their 'founding fathers' wrote hundreds of years ago is relevant to modern society. Women didn't even have the right to vote back then and they were slave owners… I guess that'll be next if they're not busy shooting each other. The chokehold the church has over the state makes America seem like the biggest cult known to man. (Sorry if that offends any Americans here. As a European, I just don't get it.. at all)

The church is actually pretty irrelevant to political life in the United States… not offensive it's just not really accurate… We're basically going bankrupt… The debt is up to $27 trillion ….

 

[Spiritual survivor]

Are you NOT paying attention? Abortion is already banned since the overturning. It is basically banned is several backwards states that have incorporated church into state against the Federal Constitution. Texas, banned, AND anyone from anywhere, that is right, any state, can sue anyone who helps anyone else obtain an abortion, just file the suit in Texas. Oklahoma, banned. The list goes on. Several states that are not outright banning are using outright misinformation as scare tactics to deter and REQUIRe these tactics to be undergone by anyone pursueing an abortion.

I wish the vaccines could reverse sterilize, like we vaccinate the assholes in government that remove rights, any rights and they can not only no longer reproduce, any progeny they already have drops dead, their parents drop dead and they drop dead, problem solved, yay vaccines! No, seriously, very scarey, the whole situation, do you realize that within a matter of years, woman could be relegated to non person status, no longer able to vote, nothing more than mere property to be traded like goats.

What right is next? The right to marry who we choose? To love who we choose? To be black and still have a voice and not be chained and beaten into submission?

When we remove the dignity of autonomous bodily control, (which is what the right to abortion is, the right to NOT have a parasite suck your strength and vitality for nine months to the next 18 years, the right to NOT have to carry rapist's offspring, the right to NOT have your own life threatened due to complications), we remove personhood, we deny being, we remove a right that we have NO right to take away. That unborn fetus cannot survive on it's own, yet it can kill the person carrying it, in more ways than one, why should something that is not yet born and cannot possible be bestowed personhood, take precedence over a being that has already acquired personhood, against that personhoods will?

By removing personhood from women, you make them noting but vessels, property. It is disgusting.

Instead, how about we forcibly Castrate all the men, chemically or physically so that no female has to endure unwanted parasites in their body, forced into them by the male of the species. Abortion will not be needed if MEN take responsibility.

As for breeding, the world is so overpopulated at this point, we do not need to require birthing to maintain our species;
enough women WANT to have children and can;
enough women who get pregnant and do not want to raise the child are willing to carry the pregnancy to term and adopt out;
children left and right all over the world are orphaned and in need of being homed, orphanages are NOT empty,
It is NOT needed to require birthing to accommodate those people that want to raise children and cannot have any on their own.

Requiring women to carry pregnancies to term against their will is archaic, unscientific and a detriment to the health of more than women than allowing access to safe abortion.

In Virginia abortions still legal until 15 weeks gestation. Most abortions happen before 12 weeks. That's what I saw on Twitter the other day. So it's not illegal everywhere.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

In Virginia abortions still legal until 15 weeks gestation. Most abortions happen before 12 weeks. That's what I saw on Twitter the other day. So it's not illegal everywhere.

Abortion During the first trimester will eventually be legal in most states. Unfortunately because of gerrymandering and electoral manipulation a number of states have republican legislatures that had built-in immediate triggers Banning all abortion the minute Roe v. Wade was overturned… Like Texas… It's really tragic for women who can't afford to travel to a state that allows abortion… It's just going to create misery and illegal abortion operations putting stress on the people who can least handle it… But ultimately abortion rights will be available throughout most of America… Other than abortion rights, Republicans are generally into freedom and libertarianism and will not be restricting other aspects of public life… There's going to be zero rollback on gay rights…

 

[Bodydysmorphia]

The USA is definitely on the path for a future civil war.. Imagine thinking whatever shit their 'founding fathers' wrote hundreds of years ago is relevant to modern society. Women didn't even have the right to vote back then and they were slave owners… I guess that'll be next if they're not busy shooting each other. The chokehold the church has over the state makes America seem like the biggest cult known to man. (Sorry if that offends any Americans here. As a European, I just don't get it.. at all)

If the US were to fall into a civil war that would be disastrous for the rest of the world. Seeing how Russia and China are trying to extend their power by invading "pro western" countries (Ukraine, Taiwan will surely follow someday), the west will be lost. I'm not sure whether I would want to live in a world controlled by autocrats/ultra conservatives or religious maniacs. Ctb sounds like a really viable option then.

 

[TheLastFemaphrodyke]

In Virginia abortions still legal until 15 weeks gestation. Most abortions happen before 12 weeks. That's what I saw on Twitter the other day. So it's not illegal everywhere.

So everyone who needs/chooses an abortion and lives in a state that has banned them must now come up with the money to move and establish residency in a state that allows them and they must do this within the 15 week limit.
How convenient.
Usually takes a several months to sell/buy/get out of lease/find new lease, pack move, but okay, we will let the realtors and neighborhoods know we are having to move quickly, I am sure that those who have been raped and traumatized will find the rush and total upheaval of their lives welcome and healing to the trauma of the rape that has left them pregnant.
How kind and thoughtful that mass exodus of certain states and immigration to other states is so fast and easy. Cause at least here where I am now, and back in ole Virginny, (from there born and raised, allowed to call it that) the planned parenthood clinics will not see you for certain services, except emergency, unless you live in the surrounding vacinity. I had to go to the clinic in Manassas Park when I lived in the park and to the county clinic when I no longer lived in Manassas Park, I had to have id to prove where I lived to obtain services and was refused services at the park clinic when I moved.
Now, if these conditions have changed and anyone from anywhere can go into the clinic and receive services, then okay, all that poor rape victim has to do is find the strength during the healing of her traumatic rape that has left her pregnant, that she has just found out about around 3-4 weeks in, so she only has 11-12 weeks left, to figure out where the closest state that allows abortion is, where a clinic there is that will actually see her and provide services, because after all, there is NO time to run around from clinic to clinic, time is of the essence, obtain travel arrangements, a hotel/motel/overnight accommodations......big breath.......then, travel, while PTSDing, and feeling like a criminal for crossing state lines to provide yourself with self care, go through the procedure and then must stay away from the comfort of her home for at least a night or two.
Sure, this is fair to all women.

 

[Insomniac]

It looks like it has happened. The Supreme Court in the US decided to overturn Roe v. Wade and essentially ban abortion in approximately every red state instantly, thanks to implemented triggers laws in these states. There was a leaked document that confirmed the decision of the court months ago and I was very worried when I first read it. I'm shocked and surprised, I didn't think such a socially accepted right could suddenly become up to debate again. It's gonna reverse decades of progress for womens rights. It looks like only 4(!) years of Trump (he appointed these judges) already caused significant and long-lasting damage to the country. And it seems it's not gonna stop there. They will also go after LGBT rights next, I have no doubts about that. If abortion suddenly is debatable again, who knows what else is. Many states in the US are already imposing anti-LGBT laws left and right and it's only a matter of time until they try to make it federal and that's very possible depending on the outcome of the next few elections. They can retake the House, the Senate and the White House in 2024.

I thought I'd post this in off-topic first but considering these issues have real and scary implications for people and worst of all it's affects the most vulnerable people in society, I thought this thread is better suited for this subforum because I can only imagine the fear and anxiety that comes with such political developments which don't just challenge our most fundamental rights but also our existence. And if they come after LGBT rights next, I can only imagine that we will have new waves of members soon. I can't blame them. The US is turning into a very scary place very quickly. A minority of religious fundamentalists have taken over and they're imposing their theocratic fascist views on the people. This is a witch hunt against marginalized people and women, there is no doubt about that.

And this goes without saying: with these people in charge who want to impose their Christian ideology on everyone else the US will remain many more years without proper legal acknowledgement of the right to die. With the most recent developments I don't doubt that any chance to implement assisted suicide has been pushed back for decades and turned into a distant dream. This is a huge setback for everyone who wishes to live in a more progressive society centered around compassion and empathy - not division and hatred.

So gross. And I'm not even surprised. And Islam becoming the first religion in the world, things are about the get even worst. Religious fundamentalists will never stop and whole idea of "respecting" other people religion doesn't work because religious people have zero regards for non religious. They only see us as mecreants bound to hell lmao.

It's time for us to to questio our idea of tolerance. If they're clearly showing how intelerant of us they are, why should we remain tolerant? Why should we put up with their bs?

I fucking hate religion. It's the most totalitarian thing ever.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

So gross. And I'm not even surprised. And Islam becoming the first religion in the world, things are about the get even worst. Religious fundamentalists will never stop and whole idea of "respecting" other people religion doesn't work because religious people have zero regards for non religious. They only see us as mecreants bound to hell lmao.

It's time for us to to questio our idea of tolerance. If they're clearly showing how intelerant of us they are, why should we remain tolerant? Why should we put up with their bs?

I fucking hate religion. It's the most totalitarian thing ever.

Religion is not the problem when it comes to abortion.
The vast majority of Americans support abortion rights.
The vast majority of religious people in the United States support abortion rights.
Most states already guarantee abortion rights through the first trimester and also in cases of rape or threatening the life of the mother. There's a few extremely backwards states including Alabama, Kentucky, etc. that are trying to ban abortion outright. Ultimately most of the United States will have abortion rights exceeding those in Western Europe. In New York State for example, even now, you can have an abortion throughout and including the third trimester.

Even more troubling then roe v wade in someways will be the supreme court ruling on the US government ability to regulate greenhouse gases.

This Supreme Court is extreme and radical and totally out of step with main stream popular opinion.

 

[September5th]

People are in favor of abortion because of social issues and women rights. I'm in favor of abortion because I hate living and wish I was never born at all. No, we're not the same.

 

[whatevs]

It's like the US is on the path to becoming Saudi Arabia at this point. Things seemed to be going in the right direction only a few years ago, but not anymore. It's bullshit.

Only the corresponding states. There will be a further and further divide. In a few generations we might have some cool post apocalyptic world where different cultures own warring territories.

 

[Spiritual survivor]

As someone who aborted all my children I wish it had not been legal. I'm not imposing my opinion on anyone but it caused harm for me because it was too easy to abort if the circumstances were inconvenient. I was unsure about having kids but perhaps terminating all your kids is not a good thing and not natural. It can effect u negatively in ways many pple don't realize. Again I'm not saying pple shouldn't abort but speaking from experience I feel a sorrow that lingers because of having terminated my unborn children and it feels like my life is incomplete or something.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

Only the corresponding states. There will be a further and further divide. In a few generations we might have some cool post apocalyptic world where different cultures own warring territories.

I'm not really looking forward to that. Probably going to CTB before then, I hope.

 

[veryhappyhuman]

I genuinely don't get how in US conservatives' eyes, having access to abortions is any different than having access to guns. Why is the "X doesn't kill people, people kill people" thing not applicable here? In either case, there is merely the choice/means provided.

They cherrypick the few legit uses of guns to justify their stance on guns, but ignore the legit uses for abortion. I don't get it. From outside, it's difficult to see it as anything other than religious dogma.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

As someone who aborted all my children I wish it had not been legal. I'm not imposing my opinion on anyone but it caused harm for me because it was too easy to abort if the circumstances were inconvenient. I was unsure about having kids but perhaps terminating all your kids is not a good thing and not natural. It can effect u negatively in ways many pple don't realize. Again I'm not saying pple shouldn't abort but speaking from experience I feel a sorrow that lingers because of having terminated my unborn children and it feels like my life is incomplete or something.

I can imagine the remorse you feel must be very painful. But the choice was yours. Most women would like to decide for themselves what is in their best interest rather then have the government decide for them.

I genuinely don't get how in US conservatives' eyes, having access to abortions is any different than having access to guns. Why is the "X doesn't kill people, people kill people" thing not applicable here? In either case, there is merely the choice/means provided.

They cherrypick the few legit uses of guns to justify their stance on guns, but ignore the legit uses for abortion. I don't get it. From outside, it's difficult to see it as anything other than religious dogma.

It's not religious dogma. It's political dogma.

Some believe that life begins at conception so abortion is akin to murder. And that murder is unequivocally wrong.

Others would say abortion is the lesser of two evils. And that we should let the mother decide what is best for them up to a certain point - end of first trimester, rape or incest, health of mother /child etc …

For all practical purposes, banning abortion just punishes women who can't afford to travel to a state where it's legal and /or makes it excessively dangerous or expensive. It's cruel and impractical.

 

[veryhappyhuman]

Some believe that life begins at conception so abortion is akin to murder. And that murder is unequivocally wrong.

Others would say abortion is the lesser of two evils. And that we should let the mother decide what is best for them up to a certain point - end of first trimester, rape or incest, health of mother /child etc …

Yeah, but again why is that same logic not applicable to guns in their minds? Guns primarily result in taking a life, just like abortions do (again, if you consider life begins at conception). So in either case, it boils down to just whether the legit need (hunting / self-defence / wElL rEguLAtEd miLiTiA in case of guns, and the factors you listed for abortion) outweigh the wrongness/"evilness" of the act. It's a lesser-evil / balancing act in either case.

If anything, an argument could be made that abortion has been used to save more lives (the mothers') than civilian guns.

 

[callme]

The right to

The right to contraception means the right to control my own body, period.
By however and whatever means I so choose. Period.
By chemical means, by chastity, ....but alas, chastity does not work when men use their strength, testosterone and tools like ropes, knives, guns, chains, belts, handcuffs, whatever they can find and choose to use, to take what they want from you, and often times, leave you pregnant with their filthy disgusting offspring,
so...... unless all men are WILLING to be chemically or physically castrated, then all women should have the right to NOT have to be forced into pregnancy. Period. If that means, that I cannot take the chemical contraceptions and I am raped and impregnated, then that contraception includes, ABORTION. Period.

It is downright ridiculous how much men are allowed to flunk repsonsibility, which I didn't realise until your comment. We are also conditioned certain ways and dumb pigs we probably don't know it.

I wanted to say however without intention to enrage you that a woman as a life-carrying organism has much more weight in her decision that is why any change in law regarding abortion will be far-reaching and fateful. It's simply not one to be compared to castration in men. Since women are not lawfully forced into pregnancy but lawful measures must be used, the problem here is domestic abuse and repeat offences on already domestic abusers and rapists.

I don't have the answer either, except death penalty as a final resort. Damn we are disgusting

Thnk lts of thse wll try 2 cll it Cmmnism

Doubt it, unless they want to be electable again. Anyhow, equal outcomes and equal opportunities are the same thing to them, communism. Except as I live in a former commie sattelite, abortions were often kept quiet of by a death threat, done in home in private and secret and were mandatory, otherwise labour camp. At least unwanted pregnancies in younger girls, although rare.

So gross. And I'm not even surprised. And Islam becoming the first religion in the world, things are about the get even worst. Religious fundamentalists will never stop and whole idea of "respecting" other people religion doesn't work because religious people have zero regards for non religious. They only see us as mecreants bound to hell lmao.

It's time for us to to questio our idea of tolerance. If they're clearly showing how intelerant of us they are, why should we remain tolerant? Why should we put up with their bs?

I fucking hate religion. It's the most totalitarian thing ever.

No, especially Islam is overstated with religious extremists. The religious extremists are enemies of the ordinary people there, and many religous people are aware a person could be good without being one of them, especially jews. Not tha it is a high bar.

Tolerant is a unworkable proposition, you mean diplomatic. The closest to what we can call a way of living we want to preserve but give up some of it the less human and more profit and possession driven we become. Try to haggle our way of freedom in exchange of accepting some of their backwards ideas. Bush tried eradicatng them, turns out he burnt several trillion down the hole, if any consolation it is just a number as opposed to the body count.

The most totalitarian thing ever is our nature. It allows for collectives and therefore religion. If you are american, I would say to you you all could do what you can to stop religion everywhere outside churches, since there is way to go in that direction as opposed to us europeans.

 

[Angi]

I would not have dared put this in suicide discussion, but frankly, it belongs here. If I were pregnant today, I would kill at least one of us, probably both. In a large part of the US, this decision would no longer be mine to make. Invasions into bodily autonomy scare the hell out of me. Or me into hell.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Yeah, but again why is that same logic not applicable to guns in their minds? Guns primarily result in taking a life, just like abortions do (again, if you consider life begins at conception). So in either case, it boils down to just whether the legit need (hunting / self-defence / wElL rEguLAtEd miLiTiA in case of guns, and the factors you listed for abortion) outweigh the wrongness/"evilness" of the act. It's a lesser-evil / balancing act in either case.

If anything, an argument could be made that abortion has been used to save more lives (the mothers') than civilian guns.

In their minds, guns are about personal freedom, a symbol of manliness, and defending themselves against the government itself which they are latently or blatantly (January 6) trying to overthrow.

 

[ConstantPain]

I would not have dared put this in suicide discussion, but frankly, it belongs here. If I were pregnant today, I would kill at least one of us, probably both. In a large part of the US, this decision would no longer be mine to make. Invasions into bodily autonomy scare the hell out of me. Or me into hell.

I hear you Angi! I had one in 1996 when I was 19 and I can confidently say that if that wasn't a legal option I would have killed us both. Thank goodness I lived in NY, didn't have to deal with zealot protestors, and that it's still legal there!

 

[Dot]

10-year-old denied abortion in Ohio sparks widespread outrage

Bans in some states have no exceptions for rape or abuse

www.independent.co.uk

10 y/o wh/ ws r*pd ws d-nied abortn & hd 2 travl

 

[ConstantPain]

10-year-old denied abortion in Ohio sparks widespread outrage

Bans in some states have no exceptions for rape or abuse

www.independent.co.uk

10 y/o wh/ ws r*pd ws d-nied abortn & hd 2 travl

Horrific on so many levels. And in my opinion, anyone that thinks forcing a 10 year old into childbirth is downright cruel.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Horrific on so many levels. And in my opinion, anyone that thinks forcing a 10 year old into childbirth is downright cruel.

Madness. This will lead to increased abortion rights.

 

[HopefulButPrepared]

I don't know what my opinion of this is, and I'm from the UK, but all I know is that I've seen photos of aborted babies and they are babies - if someone handed me one I'd automatically want to save it's life and nurture it - they just looked like new-born babies - it's a fucked up subject

 

[Insomniac]

Horrific on so many levels. And in my opinion, anyone that thinks forcing a 10 year old into childbirth is downright cruel.

Really? Couldn't they crowd fund her to go abort in another country?

I don't get some of these stories. Anyone would donate to this cause if they had asked.

Also, what kind of surrounding let a 10yo be raped? It's often by close family or friends. The mother is probably an air-head.

Yes, I'm in a terrible mood but you have to admit that this is weird. I'm tired of normalising the idea that the only person at wring if a litteral child is raped, is the rapist. I'd sue the parents, guardians, whoever.

People have so much compassion for victim but not enough questions for the people who "accidentally" let their 10yo get raped.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

10-year-old denied abortion in Ohio sparks widespread outrage

Bans in some states have no exceptions for rape or abuse

www.independent.co.uk

10 y/o wh/ ws r*pd ws d-nied abortn & hd 2 travl

That's just fucked up! No 10 year old should ever be forced to give birth a baby. They're still a kid and the odds of them dying from giving birth are probably a lot higher than they would be for a fully grown adult female. It's even worse that it's a R-baby.

People have so much compassion for victim but not enough questions for the people who "accidentally" let their 10yo get raped.

Parents who do nothing to protect their kids from things like that just make me sick. I realize that some of them might be clueless about what's going on because they might be under a lot of stress themselves, but people who take the risk of bringing kids into the world should do more to keep them safe.

 

[Insomniac]

but people who take the risk of bringing kids into the world should do more to keep them safe.

exactly. either keep them safe or don't have them.

Protection from rape is a basic need too. Parents should be charged with neglect. I don't care who what or how. I just blame the guardians. I'm actually mad because litteraly no one questions the surrounding.

If I had a niece younger than me and I learned that she was raped, I'd be okay with with being sued and severely fined/ punished in some way.

I'd rather die than learning that something like that happened to a child I'm related to.

Also, they need to euthanase rapists. I don't even know how that's not the default option? Just kill them all. Litterally.

 

[ConstantPain]

Really? Couldn't they crowd fund her to go abort in another country?

I don't get some of these stories. Anyone would donate to this cause if they had asked.

Also, what kind of surrounding let a 10yo be raped? It's often by close family or friends. The mother is probably an air-head.

Yes, I'm in a terrible mood but you have to admit that this is weird. I'm tired of normalising the idea that the only person at wring if a litteral child is raped, is the rapist. I'd sue the parents, guardians, whoever.

People have so much compassion for victim but not enough questions for the people who "accidentally" let their 10yo get raped.

Believe me, I was not defending the rapist, or mother, or anyone else involved. Yes, the child's rapist should never see the light of day again and it would seem that the mother or any other guardian is minimally guilty of neglect. That's what I meant by horrific on so many levels.

My point was simply that the states and people that have banned abortions and even worse, do not have exceptions for rape, are cruel. This child has already been through immense trauma and I can only hope she's now protected and getting the care she needs. Thank goodness she was able to get to another state for her healthcare!

 

[Medicmedic72]

Disclaimer, I didn't read every post.

The decision to have an abortion should be within the medical community and the mother.

However, in states that are restricting or banning the procedure, there are alternative options. When someone requires those interventions, there is a safety net set up for them to receive the care they need. I am NOT giving any weight to the Supreme Court decision. I am simply stating that those in red states still have options. I do not want to discuss the availability of the procedure within their home state, that is not up to me. Through the power of the internet, there are options available until there is a change in the law.

Having had an abortion, I am thankful for Roe V Wade. I believe this should be an option for anyone needing it.

But, red states represent the overall population of that State. If that population believes differently, then there is a process to change it. Conservative elected individuals were voted in by a majority. This isn't a coincidence. Red states know they are backed by the people in the state. Thankfully, I live in a state that allows safe, legal, competent care for any woman. If I am able to house, drive or care for even one woman that needs my help I would do so. I would also reasonably assist financially, if needed. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-decision.

 

[Iamchickenhat]

They won't ban abortion. They just made some changes to the laws is all. I'm not sure what the true motivation is. Perhaps the vaccines sterilized enuf people so they have to stop too many pple from terminating their unborn.

What kind of horse crap is this?! The Republicans have already announced that when they regain power in 22 or 24 they will pass legislation making a federal ban on all abortion. They've said it on tv. They've said it in the newspapers. That's what they plan. And the vaccines don't cause sterilization. Get your stupid brainwashed crazy ass or of the dark ages and embrace the life of science that actually improves life.

Stupid ass shit

 

[MrOptions]

Just crazy. My state, a very left wing blue state, home of Sleepy Joe Biden, still allows abortions'.