Venting Pro-lifers don’t want to deal with us (and our problems), but won’t let us go (peacefully) either!

[TAW122]

This is something that I've realized in the past and various times whenever I hear about CTB prevention and similar spiel that is spewed by anti-choicers and CTB preventionists, that is the conclusion that I've arrived at. In this thread, I will elaborate and breakdown the conclusion in detail as well as give an example to highlight what I mean by this. While this may be preaching to the SaSu choir, but it seems like a recurring and common theme (even a common argument that existentialgoof makes in most of his arguments), but cannot be ignored or stated enough. As long as we continue to face this common problem, this is a recurring theme and is relevant to our daily struggles to find peace.

What do I mean by the title and the conclusion? To put it simply, what this means is that anti-choicers and CTB preventionists often don't want to deal with our problems or our plights (that causes us to want to CTB), which is understandable and they want us out of sight and out of mind. But at the same time, they want to interfere, obstruct, or otherwise impinge on our right to die by making it hard for us to access them, which results in us having to plan and act in secrecy, through deception, and even take risky methods (especially when they heavily restrict or otherwise ban peaceful means to exit). The irony is that if pro-lifers don't want to deal with us, we can 'disappear' (preferably peacefully) but even then they won't allow that, especially if they have knowledge that one wishes to exit on one's own terms (CTB).

For example, someone who has suffered throughout their whole life and their problems are often dismissed, downplayed, misconstrued, misunderstood, and more, then when said person were to open up or bring up the problems hoping to find a solution (assuming one is to be found), said person is then shut down and then dismissed. Yet, when the same said person wants to CTB and said people (the same people that dismissed said person), they come out of the woodwork as 'heroes' and actively try to prevent, interfere, impinge on the sufferer's liberties and plans to exit suffering.

All in all, it's hypocrisy on the surface, but in reality, it's that they don't want the responsibility and burden of trying to solve the person whose suffering problems, yet they have some atavistic moral (the sanctity of life) that they don't want to be challenged or even brought to bear, therefore, they want to impose and project their values and will onto those who don't share the same values as they. Yes, one could consider the anti-choicers and CTB preventionists as cruel and sadistic people and one wouldn't be wrong in that context. So in the end, unless there is change towards the attitude and value of life (which sadly isn't going to happen anytime soon, especially as long as religion remains a relevant influence and factor in many people's belief and value system), this kind of mentality and attitude continues to persist, causing us to suffer and have to act in secrecy.

 

[Tired_birth_1967]

"The best model for permanently ending all suffering is a combination of anti-natalism and voluntary euthanasia, prevent new suffering and end current suffering."
One day we will get there. The current model that has been in place for so long will not last forever. Unfortunately, for a long time to come, we will continue to have to escape with pain and suffering.

 

[ceilng_tile]

This. People like this should just accept that if they don't care enough to put in the effort to make someone happy, they don't have a right to decide what that person chooses to do with their life.

 

[hedezev4]

I imagined what I would do if I saw a stranger attempting CTB.
I think I wouldn't call an ambulance or the police, and I wouldn't interfere.
Because I understand that it's their right to choose, and it's not for me to judge what they do with THEIR life.
In the end, it's none of my business.

I discussed this situation with ChatGPT, and it always tells me to call (what else could it say? :D).
But if you explain the logic, it can understand why I wouldn't want to do that.

Regarding the sanctity of life, I can understand. They haven't really thought about this topic, for them, it's like the color of the ocean - it's always blue, more or less. In other words, the idea that life = priceless is an unchanging fact. Changing someone's beliefs is very hard (try arguing with someone and convincing them to change their mind — it's a miracle). That's human nature. They're not trying to save people from CTB, they're trying not to change their point of view, so they support established beliefs.

You can replace the word CTB with anything else, for example, discrimination based on race or sexual orientation, and you'll see a similar pattern in different periods of human history.

 

[jazzcat621]

Absolutely. People will tell you that life isnt optional and that you have to live through all the pain and suffering that you deal with while they sit comfortably free from the troubles you face.

Then with that they won't do anything to help you actually escape the pain and suffering you face, those that put any effort in to "helping" just help you find ways to live with the suffering.

 

[33K1LLM3]

Couldn't agree more, often times though they happy tell us 'your not depressed' in a playful infantilising tone. Then proceed to restrict us, take away our means of functioning, stick a label that suits them, (cause if we are depressed a lot of the time it's either their fault or those who they favour's fault), like autism or adhd to show how 'vulnerable' we are, (we aren't, we have just been put through living hell by you all), then act like they are oblivious to the real or the real suffering and get confused when we show signs of proper suffering because of their actions. It's a cycle that can only be stopped if we cut off the means to keep this existing…

 

[lifeisadream]

Pro-lifers don't walk in our shoes, are not in our heads, can't grasp the intensity of the pain we're in or even care to understand it. Their primary principle is to save a life regardless of the impact that has. It is our life, not theirs.

 

[starboy2k]

pro-lifers are the same ones that turn a blind eye to things like gun and prison reform, free school lunch/healthcare, abortion rights etc., they are also the same ones that barely adopt children, cheer when a gay club gets shot up, and vote for politicians that create endless wars and make the lives of everyday people harder than it has to be. Their little "hero complex" starts AND stops at telling someone they shouldn't kill themselves….and once that little conversation is over they go right back to being the judgemental cuck-fucks they aspire to be on a daily basis. Sick of them all ESPECIALLY the ones in my family.

 

[Life'sA6itch]

"The best model for permanently ending all suffering is a combination of anti-natalism and voluntary euthanasia, prevent new suffering and end current suffering."
One day we will get there. The current model that has been in place for so long will not last forever. Unfortunately, for a long time to come, we will continue to have to escape with pain and suffering.

I agree that it is possible. But I don't have time for (in)humanity to get there.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

If the cow dies early, the amount of milk we extract from it won't be enough for it to be profitable for the owners. Just make sure the least possible amount of money is spent maintaining it, take the highest amount of milk possible out of them, and coerce them to breed for more cows, to continue the cycle.

Now exchange cow for human and milk for labor. Fits so well, doesn't it?

 

[Britney Spears]

They treat us like fools, children, madmen, and idiots. If we want to die, they torture and lock us up. They only seek their own well-being, their economy, and their survival, along with ours, imprisoned and suffering at all costs. I would rather die under the tortures of the Middle Ages than endure any more

 

[starboy2k]

If the cow dies early, the amount of milk we extract from it won't be enough for it to be profitable for the owners. Just make sure the least possible amount of money is spent maintaining it, take the highest amount of milk possible out of them, and coerce them to breed for more cows, to continue the cycle.

Now exchange cow for human and milk for labor. Fits so well, doesn't it?

and thats how the cookie crumbles

 

[skeptikus]

This. People like this should just accept that if they don't care enough to put in the effort to make someone happy, they don't have a right to decide what that person chooses to do with their life.

Well said. Like you only care about the ctb aspect of me (my ideation, when i actually do it). Otherwise, you don't care. So fugg off. I don't need preaching. I already do so much of that in my head.

 

[U. A.]

yeah i don't know where you live but try canada where the government is happier than fuck to give people lethal injections while simultaneously doing absolutely jack shit about major societal and structural causes behind people wanting to end their lives prematurely.

 

[WatchmeBurn]

I'd be more sympathetic towards the pro-forced-life position if the country (UK, for context) had a functioning mental health system and the economy wasn't going to shit because our politicians are captured by the interests of capital. We have nothing to look forward to and even non-suicidal people of Gen Z/millenial age have no hope for the future.

Ideally we'd live in a world where people wouldn't reach the point of coming on a forum like this as they'd have easy and free-at-the-point-of-use access to whatever support they need as soon as they're struggling. It's not utopia to want that, it's political.

 

[Hotsackage]

yeah i don't know where you live but try canada where the government is happier than fuck to give people lethal injections while simultaneously doing absolutely jack shit about major societal and structural causes behind people wanting to end their lives prematurely.

I mean what 2 years now? I hope it passes for people, who and desperate to use it.

 

[PI3.14]

This. People like this should just accept that if they don't care enough to put in the effort to make someone happy, they don't have a right to decide what that person chooses to do with their life.

I personally told a therapist this once "If you can't solve my problems and nor can I, then why try to prevent me from suicide?"

Unfortunately, the way the current system works is that people try to prevent suicide the action but they don't really care about solving the issues that bring individuals to such action to begin with.

 

[22yearsbroken]

I agree.. i have had to go through so much paper work to get a simple phone number and a referal to the pallitiv care team ..my health issues are the reason why so i wont to make sure my DNR and living will are all set up ..as you cant just wtite this attuff down and tell people what your wishes are... ow it has to fucking sighned dated make sure you have not been forced into the choices..
I plan to go my way when tbings get to much .. they say i could get a transplant but due ro my other crap ill be wheel chair bound soon and need some one to wipe my ass for me ...FUCK NO. I could live longer but have to be a burden on others .. who want there ass wiped by there partner.. full well knowing she would be fucking the next door neighbour...

 

[brokeandbroken]

This is something that I've realized in the past and various times whenever I hear about CTB prevention and similar spiel that is spewed by anti-choicers and CTB preventionists, that is the conclusion that I've arrived at. In this thread, I will elaborate and breakdown the conclusion in detail as well as give an example to highlight what I mean by this. While this may be preaching to the SaSu choir, but it seems like a recurring and common theme (even a common argument that existentialgoof makes in most of his arguments), but cannot be ignored or stated enough. As long as we continue to face this common problem, this is a recurring theme and is relevant to our daily struggles to find peace.

What do I mean by the title and the conclusion? To put it simply, what this means is that anti-choicers and CTB preventionists often don't want to deal with our problems or our plights (that causes us to want to CTB), which is understandable and they want us out of sight and out of mind. But at the same time, they want to interfere, obstruct, or otherwise impinge on our right to die by making it hard for us to access them, which results in us having to plan and act in secrecy, through deception, and even take risky methods (especially when they heavily restrict or otherwise ban peaceful means to exit). The irony is that if pro-lifers don't want to deal with us, we can 'disappear' (preferably peacefully) but even then they won't allow that, especially if they have knowledge that one wishes to exit on one's own terms (CTB).

For example, someone who has suffered throughout their whole life and their problems are often dismissed, downplayed, misconstrued, misunderstood, and more, then when said person were to open up or bring up the problems hoping to find a solution (assuming one is to be found), said person is then shut down and then dismissed. Yet, when the same said person wants to CTB and said people (the same people that dismissed said person), they come out of the woodwork as 'heroes' and actively try to prevent, interfere, impinge on the sufferer's liberties and plans to exit suffering.

All in all, it's hypocrisy on the surface, but in reality, it's that they don't want the responsibility and burden of trying to solve the person whose suffering problems, yet they have some atavistic moral (the sanctity of life) that they don't want to be challenged or even brought to bear, therefore, they want to impose and project their values and will onto those who don't share the same values as they. Yes, one could consider the anti-choicers and CTB preventionists as cruel and sadistic people and one wouldn't be wrong in that context. So in the end, unless there is change towards the attitude and value of life (which sadly isn't going to happen anytime soon, especially as long as religion remains a relevant influence and factor in many people's belief and value system), this kind of mentality and attitude continues to persist, causing us to suffer and have to act in secrecy.

Like I've said multiple times. Maybe if they are family or friends they actually care. If so thats great. But people just dont want to feel guilty about it. Your life means nothing to them. Your death won't offend them.

 

[ceilng_tile]

I personally told a therapist this once "If you can't solve my problems and nor can I, then why try to prevent me from suicide?"

Unfortunately, the way the current system works is that people try to prevent suicide the action but they don't really care about solving the issues that bring individuals to such action to begin with.

I'm curious what the therapist said to this.

 

[PI3.14]

I'm curious what the therapist said to this.

"It's my job, it's what's expected of me" they acknowledged that they don't have an answer though.

 

[ceilng_tile]

"It's my job, it's what's expected of me" they acknowledged that they don't have an answer though.

Fair enough. There is a liability risk to them if you do end up committing or attempting suicide.

It would be so much better if you could get an advanced directive or other legal document indicating that you are mentally competent enough to choose suicide and that you wish to release certain healthcare providers from liability should you make that decision. Unfortunately, I don't think such a document exists.

 

[PI3.14]

Fair enough. There is a liability risk to them if you do end up committing or attempting suicide.

It would be so much better if you could get an advanced directive or other legal document indicating that you are mentally competent enough to choose suicide and that you wish to release certain healthcare providers from liability should you make that decision. Unfortunately, I don't think such a document exists.

Yup, they fear losing their job which I definitely understand.

 

[RadiantNumber]

"The best model for permanently ending all suffering is a combination of anti-natalism and voluntary euthanasia, prevent new suffering and end current suffering."
One day we will get there. The current model that has been in place for so long will not last forever. Unfortunately, for a long time to come, we will continue to have to escape with pain and suffering.

One day I hope humanity cease to exists and there will be no more problems

 

[wham311]

Its still absolute bullshit to me that the people who care about you won't help you exit this place, and in fact do everything they can to keep you living in it in suffering.

 

[brokenspirited]

It's just so cruel how pro-lifers force us against our will to remain in this cruel world and take away the means to ending our misery.

 

[AnxiousAutist]

There's a fundamental disconnect between pro-lifers and us. While most pro-lifers think suicidal thoughts are impulsive and temporary (thus think things like the hotline and forced hospitalization are useful and good), we know they rarely go away. There's even the implication that most people who have suicidal thoughts are scared of them, for some reason.

 

[VargosMelon]

Fair enough. There is a liability risk to them if you do end up committing or attempting suicide.

It would be so much better if you could get an advanced directive or other legal document indicating that you are mentally competent enough to choose suicide and that you wish to release certain healthcare providers from liability should you make that decision. Unfortunately, I don't think such a document exists.

Liability? Can you explain this?
I

Fair enough. There is a liability risk to them if you do end up committing or attempting suicide.

It would be so much better if you could get an advanced directive or other legal document indicating that you are mentally competent enough to choose suicide and that you wish to release certain healthcare providers from liability should you make that decision. Unfortunately, I don't think such a document exists.

I read up on it, it's crazy that my practitioners could be held liable for my choice. It crazy. Is there like anything we can do, I'm horrified to think I could cause such an issue. Is there anything that could lessen the chance of them getting in trouble?

 

[ceilng_tile]

Liability? Can you explain this?
I

I read up on it, it's crazy that my practitioners could be held liable for my choice. It crazy. Is there like anything we can do, I'm horrified to think I could cause such an issue. Is there anything that could lessen the chance of them getting in trouble?

I think the chances of them *actually* getting in trouble are low, but as long as you don't make it obvious that you are imminently suicidal they should be okay. No one would expect them to lock you up if you say you're just thinking about suicide, but if you have a detailed plan and/or you make it sound like you're planning to kill yourself within the next few days or weeks, there is a good chance they would be expected to intervene.

 

[VargosMelon]

I think the chances of them *actually* getting in trouble are low, but as long as you don't make it obvious that you are imminently suicidal they should be okay. No one would expect them to lock you up if you say you're just thinking about suicide, but if you have a detailed plan and/or you make it sound like you're planning to kill yourself within the next few days or weeks, there is a good chance they would be expected to intervene.

Thanks for the advice.