Discussion The Achilles Heel of Suicide Prevention

[1MiserableGuy]

One of the unclear things when it comes to the attempts to frustrate maid, voluntary euthanasia, etc is the goal.

We can chalk it all up to playing God, as corpses can't lick the king's boots, but let's get real—people with enough power, money, and influence aren't that deranged, they just want endless wish fulfillment. People that deranged (like say, Marquis de Sade) aren't stable enough to obtain, and retain, that status.

It is actually more beneficial for overlords to have a certain number of people die, because smaller numbers of people are easier to control than larger ones, who have more power to rise up and revolt (remember China's one child policy?).

The amount of energy placed into suicide prevention is no accident, but what is their end goal? How do they benefit from keeping people alive against their will? Until we come to a solution to this problem, the right to die will continue to evade us.

 

[soonatpeace777888]

The system needs cogs. It needs you to work and pay taxes. Suicide is a cheat code that lets you skip to the end and avoid all of the bullshit.

 

[sserafim]

The system needs cogs. It needs you to work and pay taxes. Suicide is a cheat code that lets you skip to the end and avoid all of the bullshit.

Literally. They need us alive to be slaves to the system. They need us to be cogs in the capitalist wheel. That's why they make it so hard to die. They need workers aka human capital. They need to profit off of us. As long as you're alive, there are potential ways to profit off of you. You're more valuable to society alive than dead. Dead men pay no taxes. There is a financial benefit to keeping people alive. Everything in this world is about money and profit

 

[1MiserableGuy]

The system needs cogs. It needs you to work and pay taxes. Suicide is a cheat code that lets you skip to the end and avoid all of the bullshit.

Again, the problem with that is that it needs a precise amount of cogs, right where they're supposed to be. If you have too many people alive, there's too many mouths to keep fed at best and too much man power to fight back at worst

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

I think it's probably a lot simpler than that. The vast majority of people conflate being suicidal with being mentally ill, and the prevailing narrative is that what is considered mental illness is ALWAYS curable. They truly think everyone can be made better and get right back to work and being functional members of society, regardless of how feasible this actually is.

The severity of these ailments is also heavily downplayed, many people do not realize that eating disorders especially are deadly in their own right excluding any suicide risk. Unbeknownst to the people making laws, we have more "mentally ill" people than ever, and clearly current methods of treatment are failing many of the individuals who fall into these severe categories.

Most people think, if you can slap a diagnosis of a mental illness onto someone, they can always be cured. They do not see being suicidal as a "real" problem compared to physical diseases, not realising that people can become suicidal as a consequence of somatic illness!

In medical research literature, the economic cost of a disease is almost always brought up as some measure of how important it is to focus on studying it. Certain politicians want to abolish things like sick notes and force people to work and contribute as long as possible to the detriment of their health. Such motivations are a key part of the puzzle, yes, people in power truly believe anyone who is severely mentally ill can be fixed with some quick solutions and then enter the workforce again, to prevent a loss of productivity.

On the other hand, many suicide prevention organisations are not run by politicians with an economic motive, but individuals with altruistic motives who think they are doing a good deed and believe their mission is akin to firefighters putting out a burning building and rescuing people. They have good intentions deep down, but they just don't realize how ineffective hotlines and mindfulness pamphlets are for the vast majority of suicidal people who are not having "a moment of crisis". Even worse, many of these organizations support institutionalisation and believe that taking away people's rights and locking them in a ward is helpful and healing.

There are certainly politicians and economic-slanted professions who have a vetted interest in pushing more people back into the workforce no matter how miserable they are, that is true. However I think the biggest reason why euthanasia is still illegal for all cases in the majority of countries is because most people calling the shots in healthcare orgs are misinformed about suicidality and let their own personal beliefs cloud their assessment of other's capacity for decision making. Thus, they think everyone can be cured with enough hope, and anyone who says otherwise is loony/irrational.

If you want insight into this, read forums where doctors and those who work in mental health related fields converse online. There are so many of them who will brazenly admit that they lie to their patients because it goes against their personal beliefs to acknowledge that a suicidal person may be correct in their assessment of their own prognosis. Some of them secretly agree with patients, but don't want to be held liable for expressing any sentiment that is sympathetic to suicide or euthanasia. Many of them are well aware they are recommending useless interventions to patients whose problems are outside the scope of psychiatry, but once again they aren't allowed to voice this in the professional world.

I think there is just a deliberate, conscious denial of this uncomfortable truth, that some people could try everything under the sun to feel better and still be suicidal and longing for death. This belief that the state of being alive is precious and sacred no matter how much someone is suffering lies at the crux of why people are fighting back hard against MAID in Canada. Many of the people opposing it belief that the suffering is not real if it is "mental" and they are in complete denial of the hell that those whom they label as psychiatric cases experience in the day to day.

 

[1MiserableGuy]

I think it's probably a lot simpler than that. The vast majority of people conflate being suicidal with being mentally ill, and the prevailing narrative is that what is considered mental illness is ALWAYS curable. They truly think everyone can be made better and get right back to work and being functional members of society, regardless of how feasible this actually is.

The severity of these ailments is also heavily downplayed, many people do not realize that eating disorders especially are deadly in their own right excluding any suicide risk. Unbeknownst to the people making laws, we have more "mentally ill" people than ever, and clearly current methods of treatment are failing many of the individuals who fall into these severe categories.

Most people think, if you can slap a diagnosis of a mental illness onto someone, they can always be cured. They do not see being suicidal as a "real" problem compared to physical diseases, not realising that people can become suicidal as a consequence of somatic illness!

In medical research literature, the economic cost of a disease is almost always brought up as some measure of how important it is to focus on studying it. Certain politicians want to abolish things like sick notes and force people to work and contribute as long as possible to the detriment of their health. Such motivations are a key part of the puzzle, yes, people in power truly believe anyone who is severely mentally ill can be fixed with some quick solutions and then enter the workforce again, to prevent a loss of productivity.

On the other hand, many suicide prevention organisations are not run by politicians with an economic motive, but individuals with altruistic motives who think they are doing a good deed and believe their mission is akin to firefighters putting out a burning building and rescuing people. They have good intentions deep down, but they just don't realize how ineffective hotlines and mindfulness pamphlets are for the vast majority of suicidal people who are not having "a moment of crisis". Even worse, many of these organizations support institutionalisation and believe that taking away people's rights and locking them in a ward is helpful and healing.

There are certainly politicians and economic-slanted professions who have a vetted interest in pushing more people back into the workforce no matter how miserable they are, that is true. However I think the biggest reason why euthanasia is still illegal for all cases in the majority of countries is because most people calling the shots in healthcare orgs are misinformed about suicidality and let their own personal beliefs cloud their assessment of other's capacity for decision making. Thus, they think everyone can be cured with enough hope, and anyone who says otherwise is loony/irrational.

If you want insight into this, read forums where doctors and those who work in mental health related fields converse online. There are so many of them who will brazenly admit that they lie to their patients because it goes against their personal beliefs to acknowledge that a suicidal person may be correct in their assessment of their own prognosis. Some of them secretly agree with patients, but don't want to be held liable for expressing any sentiment that is sympathetic to suicide or euthanasia. Many of them are well aware they are recommending useless interventions to patients whose problems are outside the scope of psychiatry, but once again they aren't allowed to voice this in the professional world.

I think there is just a deliberate, conscious denial of this uncomfortable truth, that some people could try everything under the sun to feel better and still be suicidal and longing for death. This belief that the state of being alive is precious and sacred no matter how much someone is suffering lies at the crux of why people are fighting back hard against MAID in Canada. Many of the people opposing it belief that the suffering is not real if it is "mental" and they are in complete denial of the hell that those whom they label as psychiatric cases experience in the day to day.

The problem with this theory is that it supposes the goal of people who are hellbent on control is to keep them working, rather than to keep them obeying. Working or not, they just want the population to be politically aligned with them so no one opposes policies that benefit them. Narcissists, sadists, and other kinds of people who purely desire the control on its own are not stable enough to hold that kind of seat. The control then is simply a means to mitigate resisitance to their own pleasure seeking. Also, many jurisdictions will pay you higher in welfare than you could make making an honest living, which is a breeding ground for crime.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it's also that they have the support of probably the majority of the population- the 'normies' out there likely don't want their loved ones committing suicide. Especially if they don't understand the problems they are having in life. They may be more willing to let the very sick and elderly go but I doubt many of the people just on this forum would have the support of their families in CTB.

 

[derpyderpins]

The amount of energy placed into suicide prevention is no accident, but what is their end goal? How do they benefit from keeping people alive against their will? Until we come to a solution to this problem, the right to die will continue to evade us.

I don't think the goal is so much to keep people alive, it's to maintain the idea that life has unlimited inherent value, and therefore no one should consder suicide. Basically, it's about making sure people don't consider suicide in the first place by constantly bombarding them with messages about 'no don't do it!' 'it's never the answer!' and so on. If everybody, en masse, decided to question the value of life, a lot of the systems are in place would potentially fall apart, hurting those in power. They don't want people thinking "f* it I'll swing for the fences and if it doesn't work out I'll ctb." They want people to behave cautiously because there's no way out.

 

[1MiserableGuy]

I don't think the goal is so much to keep people alive, it's to maintain the idea that life has unlimited inherent value, and therefore no one should consder suicide. Basically, it's about making sure people don't consider suicide in the first place by constantly bombarding them with messages about 'no don't do it!' 'it's never the answer!' and so on. If everybody, en masse, decided to question the value of life, a lot of the systems are in place would potentially fall apart, hurting those in power. They don't want people thinking "f* it I'll swing for the fences and if it doesn't work out I'll ctb." They want people to behave cautiously because there's no way out.

What falls apart if people die? People have died from the dawn of time.

 

[damyon]

The amount of energy placed into suicide prevention is no accident, but what is their end goal? How do they benefit from keeping people alive against their will? Until we come to a solution to this problem, the right to die will continue to evade us.

I have a theory that some of their actions had no goal in mind.
Some policies were simply randomized to keep you preoccupied with questioning, allowing them to pursue their real interests discreetly.

~~~
Maybe that can offer you an alternative perspective...

 

[1MiserableGuy]

I have a theory that some of their actions had no goal in mind.
Some policies were simply randomized to keep you preoccupied with questioning, allowing them to pursue their real interests discreetly.

~~~
Maybe that can offer you an alternative perspective...

What all of these theories conveniently neglect is that oligarchs benefit from population reduction. That is ultimately the goals of things like the carbon neutral garbage, abortion, etc, to not completely eliminate life, but reduce it to a level that is easier to control.