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nothingbutmybest

nothingbutmybest

Student
May 1, 2023
130
As I'm strongly against the idea of requiring antiemetics since there's a lot of issues with obtaining it and even ensuring the antiemetic works, would taking this rectally work better?

This is the second easiest poison to obtain in the States if worst comes to worst and SN is banned so just checking my options. I know this method is unpredictable but I have to check my options.
What would the first easiest be? That said, it still doesn't seem that easy to obtain here in the US
 
clonadream

clonadream

Member
Jan 19, 2024
7
There are suppliers in Europe as well...
X
...just to give some examples
Are there suppliers in south america/Argentina as well? As far as I'm aware, my country has kind of strict regulations for most chemicals and drugs, and between them are the most typical ones recommended here for CTB.
 
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U

UKscotty

Doesn't read PMs
May 20, 2021
2,447
Isn't sodium azide highly explosive? Might raise some flags buying that.
 
C

Circles

Visionary
Sep 3, 2018
2,297
Isn't sodium azide highly explosive? Might raise some flags buying that.
Yes, and if you're not familiar with SA whatsoever then it can be too unpredictable if you're not fully aware or prepared when handling it:



"Sodium Azide (NaN3) can react with copper and lead (including copper and lead in plumbing) to produce explosive copper or lead azide. Use caution when drain disposing substances that contain ANY amount of sodium azide. Even the trace amounts (<1%) used as an antimicrobial in many chemical mixtures and reagent test kits can react with copper or lead in areas such as P-traps; there is the potential for prolonged contact between the azide and lead/copper that might be in these traps. Do not drain dispose of any substances with trace amounts of sodium azide. Sodium azide is also highly toxic, and can explosively decompose due to heat, shock, concussion, or friction."
 
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M

Mamihlapinatapei

Member
Oct 10, 2024
15
Maybe a question which has already been answered, but what would be the preference of one over the other? So SN over SA, or the other way around? Is there a significant difference? I searched on the forum, but didn't find anything. Sorry if it has already been discussed a lot.
 
Talvikki

Talvikki

Elementalist
Nov 18, 2021
843
Maybe a question which has already been answered, but what would be the preference of one over the other? So SN over SA, or the other way around? Is there a significant difference? I searched on the forum, but didn't find anything. Sorry if it has already been discussed a lot.

SN is rated higher than SA.

New info on SA is coming soon.
 
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M

Mamihlapinatapei

Member
Oct 10, 2024
15
How will you guys dispose of the SN or SA that you're not using?
 
Talvikki

Talvikki

Elementalist
Nov 18, 2021
843
There are concerns about how peaceful an sodium azide death is, leading to some uncertainty about its peaceful classification of 6 in the PPH.

Questions remain about how long it takes to lose consciousness and the chance of unpleasant side effects before death.

https://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/middel-x-update/
 
Talvikki

Talvikki

Elementalist
Nov 18, 2021
843
The toxicologist who discovered the sodium azide method, believes the PPH is recommending an incorrect dosage.

The toxicologist who, along with CLW, developed the idea that sodium azide could be used for suicide/self-euthanasia has spoken publicly for the first time.

For seven years, he kept silent, turning away journalists. But now, he feels he must speak out.

The toxicologist explains that he issued a warning in 2017, which was ignored. He believes that reports of distressing deaths from sodium azide are due to incorrect dosing.

He suggests that CLW and the PPH may be recommending an incorrect dose, specifically the 2 gram amount.

Now, his advice is being reviewed by a toxicologist from the Erasmus University Medical Center based in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

She's explains that a revised dose could potentially lead to faster effects on the brain or heart, resulting in a shorter and possibly less distressing process.

Source
Argos journalistic investigation (Dutch)

https://www.vpro.nl/argos/media/luister/podcasts/dolle-minas-van-de-dood/de-research.html
 
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TheHolySword

TheHolySword

empty heart
Nov 22, 2024
1,082
This method terrifies me but I think it's going to be my backup over SN (especially with the potentially revised info that's seemingly been coming out). I just wish this were all a lot easier and simpler lol
 
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Mamihlapinatapei

Member
Oct 10, 2024
15
I'm a bit misunderstanding why people are so concerned about 'taking the right dose' while I only see a minimum purchase of 250 grams. Why not just split that in 3 in case the first batch fails there are 2 back up batches in ridiculous large doses?

You want to overdose, right?
 
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F

Forveleth

I knew I forgot to do something when I was 15...
Mar 26, 2024
2,216
He suggests that CLW and the PPH may be recommending an incorrect dose, specifically the 2 gram amount.
...
She's explains that a revised dose could potentially lead to faster effects on the brain or heart, resulting in a shorter and possibly less distressing process.

Source
Argos journalistic investigation (Dutch)

https://www.vpro.nl/argos/media/luister/podcasts/dolle-minas-van-de-dood/de-research.html
Do we know what the revised dose is? I'm assuming it's more.
 
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L

Loaf of bread

Warlock
Mar 22, 2022
743
Is this even more restricted than SN? I couldnt find a single source of it
 
L

Loaf of bread

Warlock
Mar 22, 2022
743
Are there any reports of anyone successfully sourcing SA recently?
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
3,439
i found 27mg/Kg LD50 for rats. for a 70k human that's almost 2 grams . SN LD50 is about 150mg/KG so SA seems to be at least 5 times more lethal. 1/5 of 25 grams is 5 grams .

5 grams might be less likely to vomit than 25 ?
 
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Talvikki

Talvikki

Elementalist
Nov 18, 2021
843
The toxicologist who discovered the sodium azide method, believes the PPH is recommending an incorrect dosage.

The toxicologist who, along with CLW, developed the idea that sodium azide could be used for suicide/self-euthanasia has spoken publicly for the first time.

For seven years, he kept silent, turning away journalists. But now, he feels he must speak out.

The toxicologist explains that he issued a warning in 2017, which was ignored. He believes that reports of distressing deaths from sodium azide are due to incorrect dosing.

He suggests that CLW and the PPH may be recommending an incorrect dose, specifically the 2 gram amount.

Now, his advice is being reviewed by a toxicologist from the Erasmus University Medical Center based in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

She's explains that a revised dose could potentially lead to faster effects on the brain or heart, resulting in a shorter and possibly less distressing process.

Source
Argos journalistic investigation (Dutch)

https://www.vpro.nl/argos/media/luister/podcasts/dolle-minas-van-de-dood/de-research.html

Do we know what the revised dose is? I'm assuming it's more.

i found 27mg/Kg LD50 for rats. for a 70k human that's almost 2 grams . SN LD50 is about 150mg/KG so SA seems to be at least 5 times more lethal. 1/5 of 25 grams is 5 grams .

5 grams might be less likely to vomit than 25 ?

Recent insights suggest that a higher dose, such as 3 grams, may be more effective in reducing side effects.
 
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Talvikki

Talvikki

Elementalist
Nov 18, 2021
843
Sodium azide - Update 2025

According to eyewitness reports, the method is painless and highly effective when the instructions are carefully followed.

Recent insights suggest that a higher dose, such as 3 grams, may be more effective in reducing side effects.

Death following sodium azide ingestion typically occurs within 45 minutes to 3 hours. Based on 30 testimonies from relatives reported to the CLW, the average time to death is approximately 2 hours and 45 minutes.



This is the new MEDICATION & LIFESTYLE ADVICE recommended in the Netherlands for the intended use of SODIUM AZIDE

1. Over-the-counter (OTC) and prescription medication

Available without prescription (at drugstores):

• Anti-nausea/vomiting medication
• Headache relief medication
• Sedatives (stress-reducing)

Prescription-only:
• Medication for involuntary movements and/or muscle twitching.


2. Pre-medication schedule (starting 12 hours before intake)

A pre-medication schedule is applied 12 hours before sodium azide intake.
This protocol is inspired by existing euthanasia and assisted suicide procedures using barbiturates such as pentobarbital.


3. Possible side effects of sodium azide

Side effects before loss of consciousness:
• Nausea
• Vomiting
• Headache

Side effects after loss of consciousness:
• Twitching in the face, torso, or limbs
These are usually not noticeable to the person themselves but may be observed by bystanders. Involuntary movements and/or muscle twitching can occur after unconsciousness. This information can be shared in advance with loved ones.


4. Testing medication beforehand

Testing medication in advance can provide insight into its effects and side effects. Some guidelines apply:

• Testing anti-nausea or headache medication may produce minimal noticeable effects if symptoms are absent.
• Testing sedatives may cause drowsiness. The test can assess how much they affect alertness.
• Testing medication for twitching/involuntary movements: Midazolam (Dormicum®) or Diazepam (Valium®) often works quickly. Taking it in a safe environment (e.g., sitting on a bed) is recommended.

Test dose: Midazolam 15 mg / Diazepam 10 mg.
On the day of intake, typically 60 mg of Midazolam or Diazepam is used, taken within one hour before sodium azide.
(Midazolam typically takes effect within minutes; sodium azide is taken immediately afterward).


5. Anti-nausea/vomiting medication

Prescription-only
In the 12 hours before sodium azide intake, three doses are typically taken:
• Either Primperan® (metoclopramide) / Motilium® (domperidone) : 1 tablet (10 mg) per dose
OTC alternative
• Or Suprimal®: 2 tablets (12.5 mg) per dose


6. Combination headache relief medication

(All listed below are available OTC.)
One hour before sodium azide intake, the following combinations can be used:
• Either 1000 mg paracetamol (2x 500 mg) plus 600 mg ibuprofen (3x 200 mg)
• Or 500 mg naproxen (2x 250 mg)


7. Sedatives/stress-reducing medication

These are usually taken in three doses over the 12 hours before sodium azide intake.
Testing can assess effects on clarity and alertness.

Prescription-only:
• Seresta® (Oxazepam) 10 mg
OTC alternative:
• Valdispert (Valerian) 450 mg


8. Medication for involuntary movements/muscle twitching

Sodium azide may cause involuntary movements or twitching after unconsciousness, which bystanders may find distressing. High doses of certain prescription medications can reduce or prevent these effects.

Preferred medication:
• Dormicum® (Midazolam) – dose: 60 mg (15 mg per tablet)
Alternative:
• Valium® (Diazepam) – dose: 60 mg (2, 5, or 10 mg tablets)
(These are normally prescribed in lower doses for sleep disorders, epilepsy, or anxiety. Here, higher doses are used to prevent twitching/involuntary movements.)


9. Sodium azide intake: dosage and preparation

Ingestion of 2 grams of sodium azide is lethal; there is no antidote. Recent insights suggest that a higher dose, such as 3 grams, may be more effective in reducing side effects.

In powder form, sodium azide (stir with a plastic spoon) is dissolved in 50 ml of water. Do not use metal (stir with glass, plastic or wood).

Lifestyle schedule
• Evening before intake: Light, low-fat meal.
• After midnight: Fasting (except small sips of water with pre-medication).
• Morning of intake: Light meal (e.g., toast with jam or low-fat yogurt, avoiding fatty foods).

Sodium azide should be pre-dissolved and ready before taking Midazolam/Diazepam.
• With Diazepam, an alarm can be set for the planned sodium azide intake.
• Midazolam typically takes effect within minutes; sodium azide is taken immediately afterward.


10. Enhancing sodium azide absorption

A high stomach pH improves absorption. One hour beforehand, take 1 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) dissolved in water or tea. (This is available OTC.)


11. Death following sodium azide ingestion typically occurs within 45 minutes to 3 hours. Based on 30 testimonies from relatives reported to the CLW, the average time to death is approximately 2 hours and 45 minutes.


12. Reflection on the Dying Process (Eyewitness Account)




Els Huizinga decided to end her life using sodium azide.

Hans Peltenburg, a nurse (and buddy)*, as well as Els van Poppel, were with Els Huizinga when she passed away.

*Buddy (someone who offers presence and support to a person in the final stage of life. All buddy's are experienced and well-trained in natural dying care. They come from diverse professional backgrounds, such as psychology, nursing, and social work).


Reflection on the Dying Process

"At 10:45, we said our goodbyes," Els recalls. "She nodded at the camera and said, 'Look, I'm doing this entirely on my own.' Everything was focused on showing that she did this herself. No help, completely independently. She spoke into the camera again, emphasizing once more that she had performed all the actions herself. She mixed sodium azide in 50 ml of water. Smiling at the camera, she said, 'My sister would say: Skol.' She drank the substance and lay down calmly." Els, swallowing her emotions: "She took my hand. Looked at me and said, 'I'm going to sleep nicely. I wish you all the best. I'm not going to cry. Goodbye, darlings. Goodbye, my dearest darlings.' I'll never forget that look."

"At 11:15, she was unconscious," Hans continues. "Her cat Goofy jumped onto the bed briefly to sniff around but then disappeared into the hallway closet. After that, it unfolded as it often does in a natural death—like I've seen as a nurse, including with my own mother and a close friend. There were occasional involuntary movements. She tried to sit up three times. For about ten minutes, she moaned during the two hours after losing consciousness. In the final hour, she breathed in the characteristic, irregular rhythm of so-called Cheyne-Stokes breathing. And then, at 13:14, her breathing stopped. She had passed away."

After a brief silence, Els continues: "We also talked together about what we saw happening during the dying process. That was important to us, also for our own processing. It helped to look back together. The involuntary movements she made, the brief moaning, the attempts to sit up—they were all part of the natural process of dying. No signs of suffering, but physical reflexes that can look impressive if you don't know what to expect."

Hans adds: "Those kinds of phenomena can seem frightening, but if you know what they mean, they bring peace. The body is letting go, slowly shutting down. The Cheyne-Stokes breathing fits into that. We saw it all happen and recognized it."

Els: "And because of that, we could stay with her, calm, without panic. That felt like the greatest gift we could give her: being present, bearing witness, simply staying."


Source:
KNMG/KNMP guideline on the implementation of euthanasia and assisted suicide (2021) - Anti-nausea/vomiting protocol

The Peaceful Pill Handbook (2025) - Philip Nitschke

Uitweg, Chabot & Graafland (2024)

Coöperatie Laatste Wil (June 2025)
According to eyewitness reports, the method is painless and highly effective when the instructions are carefully followed.

Trouw (November 2024)
Els Huizinga decided to end her life using sodium azide. Hans Peltenburg and Els van Poppel were present at Els Huizinga's passing.

See www.steungroepdappereburgers.nl (Brave Citizens Support Group Foundation) for updates to this schedule and other news.


Non-public source:
Case studies: 30 testimonies from relatives (2017–2025) – known to CLW

Toxicological report on sodium azide, Dr. G.H.M. Counotte, toxicologist (ERT) – Zwolle (2017) (on members' page www.laatstewil.nu)
 
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