Would people recommend against ordering SN to the UK even if it's not from the listed sources? Is it likely to end in a welfare check?
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YandereMikuMistress
you say falling victim to myself is weak, so be it
- Apr 26, 2023
- 260
I need input from anyone willing to help me with some questions involving the amount of SN I should order, I've already sent in my inquiry and they have responded with regards to how much I would like to order, please if anyone's willing please PM me
NearlyIrrelevantCake
The Cake Is A Lie
- Aug 12, 2021
- 1,235
This thread is for news about specific defunct SN providers and Kenneth Law, it's not for asking for SN sources.
YandereMikuMistress
you say falling victim to myself is weak, so be it
- Apr 26, 2023
- 260
Wasn't asking for a source but thanks for informing me anyhow just was in a rush, but hope you have yourself a Good day.
NearlyIrrelevantCake
The Cake Is A Lie
- Aug 12, 2021
- 1,235
Merchant of Death: The case of Kenneth Law and the shadowy online network that helps people end their lives
After Kenneth Law lost his job as a low-level cook at the Royal York hotel, he found another way to make money: peddling suicide kits on the internet. Now, he’s been linked to the deaths of over 100 people around the world—and their grieving families want justice
Charged with 14 counts of 2nd degree murder.
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Lmao I had police come for the welfare check telling me fbi sent them. I guess they told the truth.
I'm legit stunned by this news
Rhizomorph1
May you find peace in living or dying
- Oct 24, 2023
- 590
How the fuck can one be charged with murder when these people made the willful decision to take their own lives?
I can understand charging homicide (not that I agree with it), but murder?
Sigh...
"He was getting help. He was slowly but surely getting there, and unfortunately he found [a pro-suicide] forum before he could get better, so he didn't get a chance to heal."
More like he wasn't really getting any real help and was lying to people so he wouldn't get sent to a psychiatric hospital.
More like he wasn't really getting any real help and was lying to people so he wouldn't get sent to a psychiatric hospital.
@Rhizomorph1 yeah it's crazy, I don't know the ins and outs of the extent of what he did and whether he deserves some charges or jail time but surely it doesn't reach the threshold for literal MURDER. From what I read he seemed pretty clued up and defiant that he wasn't doing anything illegal-but then again maybe that's just arrogance. Still, this whole thing is a complete shit show.
Abyssal
Kill me
- Nov 26, 2023
- 1,276
Sounds like a decision built on emotion rather than fact. He did technically break a law, but murder wasn't what that was. Even from a pro-life standpoint the charges aren't factually correct.
I hope he will be found not guilty, amazon was selling the same product and they knew what it was for , they stopped selling under a lot of pressure from family's victim.
And it tooks months and a lot of bad reviews. lol
But you know , always easier to catch the little guy. Fuck that society.
And it tooks months and a lot of bad reviews. lol
But you know , always easier to catch the little guy. Fuck that society.
Hmm- yeah- assisting in a suicide woud be nearer the truth than murder. I wonder how many were minors though. That could influence things. Similar to sex with someone under the age of consent is considered rape. Especially if one person is older. I expect they are trying to please the parents/families with a strong sentence though.
Interesting that no international cases are being sought. Means we all went through those awful wellfare checks for nothing. I still wonder whether he gave over our details as part of some plea hope or whether they did their own digging to find them. The detective that later rang me suggested he may have given over the names but really- from the start, they seemed terribly informed. I think it just suited their narrative of him as the villain.
That's definitely one way to look at it.
I guess they just needed to do it in order to make the families happy that the person responsible for their loved ones death gets his time.
Dot
Globl mod | Info abt typng styl on prfle.
- Sep 26, 2021
- 2,700
"Second-degree murder is an unplanned homicide caused by reckless actions that could lead to the victim's death"
= jst smantcs
C abve - = jst smantcs
Hs actns led t/ deths & h/ braggd specfclly abt helpng ppl t/ ctb t/ a journlst
H/ ws arrgnt
Yeah, it's been all quiet on the international front in terms of cases, just deaths that may be linked to Laws SN. Maybe he did give over details because he felt that he had after everything had come to an end, probably felt like he had nothing else to lose.
First he denied being aware that people were ctbing with his sn but then he did brag that he's sent out packages all over. I guess he got what was coming after all that he did.
Dot
Globl mod | Info abt typng styl on prfle.
- Sep 26, 2021
- 2,700
In th/ newspapr artcl h/ sd tht "sme ppl r sayng tht am doin Gds wrk" & tht "mny mny mny ppl hve passd awy"
Yeah, I remember readings that. So in a way, he dug his grave by saying those things which eventually led up to this point where we are
Thing is though, about the some of families who want this forum shut down because of the death of their loved and because they don't want any other family to go through what they did, when will they realize they can't stop it because even if this forum gets shut down, suicide will still be around and mamy more families will go through that great loss.
Yes, he undoubtedly did and even if those desperate to ctb ended up taking that final step themselves, Law took advantage of that desperation and bragged about the "good" he was doing. If he didn't go out of his way to be so charismatic about it then maybe things would've been different.
Rhizomorph1
May you find peace in living or dying
- Oct 24, 2023
- 590
This is a good point about minors. If he sold SN to minors and there was proof of him knowing they were minors and that he reasonably knew that they were using the SN for suicide, I think that would be grounds to prosecute a bit more harshly, in my books.
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penguinl0v3s
Wait for Me 💙
- Nov 1, 2023
- 762
Lmao right, everyone says the same thing like "man this suicide was so unexpected" and "he/she was such a sweet kid." I know my parents wouldn't suspect I'd ever ctb even though they made me 10x more suicidal and I'm skeptical to trust any family's word tbh.
Several well-known sites were selling it. A few years ago it was easy as pie to find it online. This man was the fall guy... Of course he did nothing to feign innocence in his online store so that was quite brazen of him.
It does seem like they've got some info that they're not releasing as to why it's a second degree murder charge. As per this BBC article-"evidence has come in that supports the charge of second-degree murder", but declined to add further details as the investigation was ongoing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67693318
I'm not sure what that could possibly be but I guess I'll reserve judgement until the trial. Anyone know if there's a date for that yet?
I'm not sure what that could possibly be but I guess I'll reserve judgement until the trial. Anyone know if there's a date for that yet?
heavyeyes
✿
- Oct 9, 2022
- 1,598
EXACTLY THANK YOU
Not only do psychiatric hospitals suck but there's still a HUGE stigma regarding suicidal ideation/suicide
Folks act like going to the hospital is a cure all for mental illness/suicidal ideation lol
RainAndSadness
Administrator
- Jun 12, 2018
- 2,109
This is an unprecedented case and they're obviously trying to make an example of him. I don't buy the second degree murder charges but we'll see what the legal proceeding unveils. Maybe we don't know all the details, maybe the prosecution is just trying to be extra harsh here. Let's hope he has a good legal defense.
Meanwhile, it does a lot of harm than the supposed good people think it does. "Get help" is such a lazy term now.
Neither do I, if anything, it should be assisted suicide at most but the 2nd degree murder charges could be because they are trying to be as harsh as possible. Considering he will defend against the charges, it'll certainly be interesting to see how this progresses
This is very understated but crucial. My life got messed up hard because I did not know about my country's mental health act and the monumental scope of law enforcement to involuntarily admit or section someone. I confidently believed you can only be admitted if you were in an impending risk of suicide or causing a public disturbance but this is not true. The laws of the involuntarily admission are extremely vague for completely removing someone from their livelihood and does not take in consideration how these procedures are done. It's absolutely something to fear if you live in poorer places ridden with corruption and turmoil, if the police resort to hostile and coercive means to admit someone based on suspicion or prejudice or if you have to deal with extended queue times while still having your rights violated and plenty of other considerations.
I got admitted and sectioned because I told them I had the package and refused the police demand to relinquish it as I explained that it was a legal substance, I was not in the act, not mentally ill and it had been well more than a year since I bought it and visited anything suicide related and got better. I was civil and calm but assertive. I never had a mental illness history or severe mental health decline or got into any trouble with the law or criminal system etc and I even tried explaining my personal life (socials, job, financial supports) to show I'm safe but it didn't matter as they only cared about the package and I had been deemed involuntary, irrational and risk of self harm for simply refusing. The shocking midnight visit of the police and EMS were loud and they were extremely stringent with their demands. The neighbors overheard since all of us lived in a small space. My flat was searched and they seized an unsealed but dust ridden package in a secluded spot. I didn't know about the investigation of Ken because of my job, family and other irl things so getting sectioned was shocking. I was detained and unable to sleep in the emergency hall for 6 hours and was only offered a few minute consultation over the phone which is not enough time to fully explain myself and sectioned for almost 2 days and there was no psychiatrist till the end of my incarceration though their care was better than the uncaring first responders and half assed first assessment, and then I was monitored for more than a month where I had to prove that I was not mentally ill or a danger to myself, mainly due to absurdly long queue times. I couldn't work for several days from my full time job and missed a friends gathering which was massively upsetting as it's already so difficult to organize our schedules to gather. The neighbors who were initially neutral with me now look at me in suspicion. The mental health staff were convinced that it's foolish to plan for suicide and that all problems are always temporary to the last moment and were concerned of my refusal to follow police's demand, Interpol and the suicide kit can be used at anytime eventhough I told them it was well more than a year ago. Almost like the only thing that really mattered was whether I had the package and if I was willing to relinquish it. They've also mentioned people giving cover up excuses (meat curing, brewing) and had received many alerts of those substances used for suicide. They suggested I should have follow police orders and relinquished the package to avoid trouble. I answered their questions and followed what they want me to do with no complications but too much queuing and waiting. This was my first time getting my mental health assessed professionally so there was a dread of not knowing what was going to happen. I didn't need to take anti depressants during my care which my parents were relieved about. Moved into my parents home for a small period and I told them what I knew. They were a bit concerned that websites like this one exist, but they believe in me and know that I've done well in self sustaining myself for so many years and were more furious at how authoritative and dehumanizing the treatment had been. All this did for me and my family was inflict more distrust and fear with the mental health system.
I didn't have hindsight and being dehumanized was a life changing traumatic event. Just want to warn that this can happen to anyone mentally ill or not and you'll most likely end up worse off than before. I still have flashbacks from the April May wellness checks, psych ward and mandatory mental health assessments. I think from the stories of Ken's wellness checks, many people got off easier by having nicer understanding cops, anticipating them or relinquished the package, proved that they are safe and getting better unless they have a history with involuntary care.
Whale_bones
Experienced
- Feb 11, 2020
- 219
Linomastro, thank you so much for sharing your story. I knew there were others like me who'd experienced the exact same thing, and throughout this whole time I've just wanted the community on SS to be aware of and recognize that. While I understand the mods' view of not wanting to panic people, it's also very necessary to acknowledge that this is reality, and it's something that is traumatic and damaging to people, through no fault of their own.
I was civil yet assertive, exactly like you were; I explained my reasoning very well, I even had phone numbers to call that would back up my words, etc. The fact of the matter is, it had nothing to do with what we said or didn't say. it was based on pure bad luck because of the police we were assigned, and their willingness to bend the vague mental health statutes to their personal motivations and bias.
I know it's perhaps more comforting to think that we as citizens have some control, and therefore some people will hold on to thinking "well, it must have been your fault in one way or another," but that's just not factual. I encourage anyone who's thinking that to look into this subject, read the statute for your state (or country, for those countries who make use of similar statutes), and learn some of the long history of how this has been misused and abused by law enforcement and other institutions of power.
As you say, the entire experience of having your rights violated, having your physical freedom and autonomy removed, and being dehumanized is often traumatizing and leaves side effects. It can take time to even start processing that, and it's only sensible that many people weren't inclined to post about that soon after it happened. And I very much understand people who aren't in a place to talk about it at all.
But I greatly appreciate you sharing your story, Linomastro, as just one person being able to say it has already been healing for me. It additionally helps validate that this happened to other members of this site (who have the right to tell or not tell their story, and the number of people who have done so is not a representation of the number of people it happened to). I hope you are doing okay today, and I wish you continued strength getting through the aftermath of this.
I am incredibly troubled by LEO searching your home and stripping you of your rights.
My takeaway: lock your stuff down, have it well hidden, don't answer the door if the cops show up, dontnanswer questions about a package.
My takeaway: lock your stuff down, have it well hidden, don't answer the door if the cops show up, dontnanswer questions about a package.
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