SN from IC discussion megathread

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Investigation into Mississauga man's lethal products expands to New Zealand

New Zealand authorities have now joined the investigation into the deaths connected to a Mississauga man who is accused of sending sodium nitrite to vulnerable people around the world experiencing suicidal thoughts.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

21 deaths now linked to Kenneth Law's lethal products

The number of deaths connected to the products sold by a Mississauga, Ont. man charged with aiding and abetting suicide continues to climb, hitting at least 21 people, according to tracking by CTV News.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

 

[just_so_done]

Updating that these wellness checks are ongoing.

A forum member was visited today. The police knew personal details about the member (none related to internet behavior, but things like job, school, etc) so they're probably handling "more difficult to trace" cases at this point in time. This user had their SN shipped to a different address, but the police showed up to their home.

Keep yourself aware of your rights during a wellness check, all. Cops in most areas do not have a right to enter, you can talk to them outside and they do not have to know specifics of your mental condition. Try to stay well composed, answer bare minimum, decline anything that seems invasive.

can you confirm if this member had ordered from IC?

 

[gardenofaphrodite]

I think it would be a good idea to have a megathread to discuss the current events around IC because it's hard to keep track with all the different threads and the information is cluttered all over the forum. If you had a visit regarding your SN, you can post this here too, that also helps the community to keep track of the situation and dynamic around these visits. You can of course still create your own threads if you think the information is significant and important enough to have its own thread, in that case you can of course link to the thread in here.

Thanks everyone.

Do you know if any members who have ordered from CCS have had wellness checks done on them(?) I haven't ordered but I'm curious

 

[imlookingforward]

Do you know if any members who have ordered from CCS have had wellness checks done on them(?) I haven't ordered but I'm curious

i ordered from ccs soon before all this went down, and nothings happened to me thus far. just my experience tho

 

[Chronicoverwhelm]

Updating that these wellness checks are ongoing.

A forum member was visited today. The police knew personal details about the member (none related to internet behavior, but things like job, school, etc) so they're probably handling "more difficult to trace" cases at this point in time. This user had their SN shipped to a different address, but the police showed up to their home.

Keep yourself aware of your rights during a wellness check, all. Cops in most areas do not have a right to enter, you can talk to them outside and they do not have to know specifics of your mental condition. Try to stay well composed, answer bare minimum, decline anything that seems invasive.

Was that their first visit? What country?

 

[dimstar]

Do you know if any members who have ordered from CCS have had wellness checks done on them(?) I haven't ordered but I'm curious

Ccs is no longer selling sn as far as I know. There were 2 members who got checks but they had also ordered or filled out info for ic. So ccs alone no I believe no wellness checks.

 

[StarFaded]

Investigation into Mississauga man's lethal products expands to New Zealand

New Zealand authorities have now joined the investigation into the deaths connected to a Mississauga man who is accused of sending sodium nitrite to vulnerable people around the world experiencing suicidal thoughts.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

I'm from NZ and I'm SO upset about all this right now. I regret not buying SN from IC when I had the chance to before. Now I'm going to have to find more inelegant ways to end my life and maybe even suffer during the process all because some ignorant and selfish people couldn't cope!!!

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Kenneth Law Update

The police department that arrested the IC owner Kenneth Law and 10 others has made a Public Safety Announcement today warning the public of the province to be on the lookout for SN packages and items that appear to be eebd hoods (Nitrogen method). I would assume that other law enforcement...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[OceanBlue]

21 deaths now linked to Kenneth Law's lethal products

The number of deaths connected to the products sold by a Mississauga, Ont. man charged with aiding and abetting suicide continues to climb, hitting at least 21 people, according to tracking by CTV News.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

"A few months later, second-year university student Tom Parfett was found next to a note and a package of sodium nitrite with the logo of Imtime Cuisine, one of the companies that police in Canada have linked to Law."

Remember to remove the labels, we should not make it easier for them.

Cops are impossible to reason with, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this 'job' to begin with, they won't empathize with us no matter what, even though they kts at a high rate

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

11 Ontario police services now involved in Kenneth Law case, Peel police say

Peel police are asking members of the public to be on 'alert' for items containing sodium nitrite, including hoods and masks, as the investigation into the online sale of the lethal substance continues.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

"Police have released the names of a number of companies linked to the investigation, including Academic/ACademic, AmbuCA, ICemac, Escape Mode/escMode, and Imtime Cuisine."

 

[Whale_bones]

This news reporting is so damaging. Some of us are trying to keep our lives together after the police visits. Jobs, healthcare, social support systems, things we need if we are to go on surviving. Media and law enforcement continuously blaring these company names and other details, over and over, puts us at increased risk of losing the very things we need to survive, and there's no excuse for it as law enforcement knows that all the orders related to this took place many months ago. They know that this has no connection to "stopping CTB" anymore, and the only effect this can have is damage and destabilization for the people that are still alive.

They're far too late to do anything for the people that have already passed, but they could choose to act ethically, responsibly and professionally in the way they report about and handle this, so that people who are still alive don't risk losing vital support systems from the stigma of things related to suicide. But instead they choose to be reckless and careless in a desperate attempt to appear like they're doing something, so the general public and people who aren't involved in this will skim a headline and think they're doing a good job. It's just sickening to me.

Anyways, thank you to those who are adding updates, I have constant worry and anxiety now and feeling like I'll be in the loop quickly enough if anything radical happens helps me a lot.

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Anyways, thank you to those who are adding updates, I have constant worry and anxiety now and feeling like I'll be in the loop quickly enough if anything radical happens helps me a lot.

I personally search for news updates about KL every day to see if there's anything to post.

 

[Unending]

I personally search for news updates about KL every day to see if there's anything to post.

I was too for a while but it's been bad for my mental health. I've started to get so mad thinking about it all. I believe that regulation would be much better than random sellers but that's the whole point. There will be no regulation and people such as myself will be tortured because it makes others feel better... The whole KL thing has made me more bitter than I think I've ever been.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Just an update... A Detective Constable has been in touch now about my SN purchase (UK.) So- they're obviously looking to build an international case against him. Not that he did anything illegal in my case but they're obviously trying to find more 'evidence'. They were actually pretty nice but it's clear this is ongoing.

 

[FuneralGrey]

Just an update... A Detective Constable has been in touch now about my SN purchase (UK.) So- they're obviously looking to build an international case against him. Not that he did anything illegal in my case but they're obviously trying to find more 'evidence'. They were actually pretty nice but it's clear this is ongoing.

Can I ask – was this a first visit or a follow-up? I got a follow-up last week after an earlier visit in May. I don't hang out around here much anymore but from what I've seen, not many people, if any, got follow-ups.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Can I ask – was this a first visit or a follow-up? I got a follow-up last week after an earlier visit in May. I don't hang out around here much anymore but from what I've seen, not many people, if any, got follow-ups.

It was a follow-up. This was a DC and they texted/phoned. The first two were PC's and that was a welness check. From what she said- it sounds like the next 'phase' in all this. Our governments are clearly working with the Canadian government to gather more information. I wouldn't be surprised if more people get follow ups but I'm guessing/hoping they'll be more low-key for people. She was nice to be fair- reasonable. We had a long discussion about suicide! That's how I think it should be. We're not doing anything illegal. Neither was he in my case. He sold me a product used to cure meat. So- for me- I don't know why they would get back in touch now but you just don't know. I was compliant because there wasn't anything incriminating to tell her. I wonder where this will all go though. I wonder if he's regretting selling it all now.

 

[NoHorizon]

Just an update... A Detective Constable has been in touch now about my SN purchase (UK.) So- they're obviously looking to build an international case against him. Not that he did anything illegal in my case but they're obviously trying to find more 'evidence'. They were actually pretty nice but it's clear this is ongoing.

Thanks for the update. It's nice to have a heads up on what's going on to be forearmed rather than having frightening calls etc.

 

[FuneralGrey]

It was a follow-up. This was a DC and they texted/phoned. The first two were PC's and that was a welness check. From what she said- it sounds like the next 'phase' in all this. Our governments are clearly working with the Canadian government to gather more information. I wouldn't be surprised if more people get follow ups but I'm guessing/hoping they'll be more low-key for people. She was nice to be fair- reasonable. We had a long discussion about suicide! That's how I think it should be. We're not doing anything illegal. Neither was he in my case. He sold me a product used to cure meat. So- for me- I don't know why they would get back in touch now but you just don't know. I was compliant because there wasn't anything incriminating to tell her. I wonder where this will all go though. I wonder if he's regretting selling it all now.

Thank you for answering. This sounds very similar to my experience, although I refused to speak to them, so I don't know for sure what they would have said/asked. In any case, very unsettling to have so many phone calls from them after I thought this was all behind me. They're causing so much stress with these investigations, I really wish they would leave people alone.

 

[sunsetboat234]

where to buy SN?

 

[Dot]

Just an update... A Detective Constable has been in touch now about my SN purchase (UK.) So- they're obviously looking to build an international case against him. Not that he did anything illegal in my case but they're obviously trying to find more 'evidence'. They were actually pretty nice but it's clear this is ongoing.

Anothr membr in UK also hd a vist frm a DC withn th/ ls 30mns

UK ppl -- mght b wrth emotnlly preparng fr thse vists

Nothng 2 strss abt b/ nt wnt ppl 2 b d-stablisd agn lke aftr th/ 1st vists

Wld nt thnk tht n.e1 = oblig8td 2 spk 2 thm bcse membrs hve nt commttd a crme & r nt undr warrnt or b-ing arrstd

 

[Forever Sleep]

Anothr membr in UK also hd a vist frm a DC withn th/ ls 30mns

UK ppl -- mght b wrth emotnlly preparng fr thse vists

Nothng 2 strss abt b/ nt wnt ppl 2 b d-stablisd agn lke aftr th/ 1st vists

Wld nt thnk tht n.e1 = oblig8td 2 spk 2 thm bcse membrs hve nt commttd a crme & r nt undr warrnt or b-ing arrstd

Yeah absolutely- they stressed I wasn't in any trouble. I think it's more that they want more 'evidence' against KL. Except in my case- he didn't do anything illegal. They do seem curious how people know about SN but when I said I'd rather not say specifically- just- generally the internet- they didn't push it. For now- the investigation is focused on him by the sounds of it. I guess it's going to vary on who you get but they were reasonable with me. Like you say @Dot - we haven't done anything illegal. I guess you can refuse to speak to them. It's more that I didn't really feel like it would incriminate him if I did- seeing as he didn't give me any additional information- he just sold me a product. They asked if they could be in touch again though- if needs be. Which seemed odd- seeing as my experience couldn't 'help' them. I hope that's it now though and I hope they are reasonable with other people if they do contact them.

 

[Dot]

Yeah absolutely- they stressed I wasn't in any trouble. I think it's more that they want more 'evidence' against KL. Except in my case- he didn't do anything illegal. They do seem curious how people know about SN but when I said I'd rather not say specifically- just- generally the internet- they didn't push it. For now- the investigation is focused on him by the sounds of it. I guess it's going to vary on who you get but they were reasonable with me. Like you say @Dot - we haven't done anything illegal. I guess you can refuse to speak to them. It's more that I didn't really feel like it would incriminate him if I did- seeing as he didn't give me any additional information- he just sold me a product. They asked if they could be in touch again though- if needs be. Which seemed odd- seeing as my experience couldn't 'help' them. I hope that's it now though and I hope they are reasonable with other people if they do contact them.

Thy wre ok wth th/ othr membr also bt thy wre also playng dmb abt a lt of thngs

 

[ge0rge]

not a second visit lmaooo fucking enough!!!

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thy wre ok wth th/ othr membr also bt thy wre also playng dmb abt a lt of thngs

Yeah- I don't know if that's tactical or what... Maybe they've only just been put on to the investigation. They made it sound like there were phases. The first phase being the welfare checks- which we both agreed hadn't been very well briefed- hence the kind of panic and scramble out to all known addresses. This seemed kind of similar though- in a way. Maybe they don't like to trust the media. They didn't seem to know that he had been verifying people's ages more recently.

I tried to find stuff out too- like- how did they get all our addresses? I don't think they really knew to be honest. I said- maybe it was through Paypal? But they were like- MAYBE he kept a note of your addresses. Didn't REALLY sound like they knew. They're just following orders from higher up I guess. I don't think they know all the ins and outs of the investigation.

 

[Whale_bones]

Anothr membr in UK also hd a vist frm a DC withn th/ ls 30mns

UK ppl -- mght b wrth emotnlly preparng fr thse vists

Nothng 2 strss abt b/ nt wnt ppl 2 b d-stablisd agn lke aftr th/ 1st vists

Wld nt thnk tht n.e1 = oblig8td 2 spk 2 thm bcse membrs hve nt commttd a crme & r nt undr warrnt or b-ing arrstd

I've said this before and linked the relevant laws, but I'm too tired/stressed to provide links etc. so I'm just going to say it. UK laws are different, I'm not knowledgeable on those laws, but in the US the laws vary by state, and many states have "mental health acts" that don't fall under the same regulations that criminal laws do. People committing/accused of committing a crime always have certain rights, but that doesn't apply whatsoever here, because no one is committing/accused of committing a crime.

Instead, a police officer is allowed to interpret very vague "mental health" statutes however they like, so what happens to you is completely dependent on the officer assigned to you. In the US where we have a systemic problem with police who are already willing to violate people's rights when they can get away with it, this sets up a very dangerous situation.

I've brought this up before regarding the blanket statements like this is "nothing to stress about"; for people that have already interacted with reasonable officers that's true, and they can already surmise that based on their previous interaction. But if you live somewhere with hostile law enforcement and have already been threatened, had your rights violated and other things I can't talk about on here, then this is absolutely something to worry about.

I'm hesitant to say even the small amount I've said on SS, and I imagine that anyone else who also faced hostile law enforcement is similarly hesitant to speak. So the narrative becomes 100% that reasonable, non-aggressive cops are just talking to people, and then that gets repeated with others saying things like it's nothing to worry about, they won't do anything, etc. This isn't reality though, and as glad and relieved as I am for all the people who had safe interactions, I don't want that to be 100% of the narrative when that's not reflective of reality.

 

[Dot]

I've said this before and linked the relevant laws, but I'm too tired/stressed to provide links etc. so I'm just going to say it. UK laws are different, I'm not knowledgeable on those laws, but in the US the laws vary by state, and many states have "mental health acts" that don't fall under the same regulations that criminal laws do. People committing/accused of committing a crime always have certain rights, but that doesn't apply whatsoever here, because no one is committing/accused of committing a crime.

Instead, a police officer is allowed to interpret very vague "mental health" statutes however they like, so what happens to you is completely dependent on the officer assigned to you. In the US where we have a systemic problem with police who are already willing to violate people's rights when they can get away with it, this sets up a very dangerous situation.

I've brought this up before regarding the blanket statements like this is "nothing to stress about"; for people that have already interacted with reasonable officers that's true, and they can already surmise that based on their previous interaction. But if you live somewhere with hostile law enforcement and have already been threatened, had your rights violated and other things I can't talk about on here, then this is absolutely something to worry about.

I'm hesitant to say even the small amount I've said on SS, and I imagine that anyone else who also faced hostile law enforcement is similarly hesitant to speak. So the narrative becomes 100% that reasonable, non-aggressive cops are just talking to people, and then that gets repeated with others saying things like it's nothing to worry about, they won't do anything, etc. This isn't reality though, and as glad and relieved as I am for all the people who had safe interactions, I don't want that to be 100% of the narrative when that's not reflective of reality.

Wht d/ u thnk th/ polce r goin2 d/

Nne of th/ SaSu membrs hve commitd n.e crmes in ordrng SN

No1 in UK rportd n.e consequncs frm th/ welfre chck vists tht sggests violatns -- no1 rportd b-ing sectnd in u.k etc

Th/ u.k mentl hlth servces r xtremly stretchd in u.k s/ = tkes a lt of authrisatn 2 hve n.e1 4rcd in2 inpatnt bcse thre jst r nt enuf beds

UK polce r nt perfct & = hs bn establshd tht thre = systemc racsm & sexsm etc bt thre = nt mch tht thy cn rlly d/ 2 n.e 1 in ths instnce

Thy r detctve constbles tryn2 gt mre infrmatn on wht IC custmrs knw -- tht = it

Thre = nothng 2 arrst ppl fr

 

[Whale_bones]

Wht d/ u thnk th/ polce r goin2 d/

Nne of th/ SaSu membrs hve commitd n.e crmes in ordrng SN

No1 in UK rportd n.e consequncs frm th/ welfre chck vists tht sggests violatns -- no1 rportd b-ing sectnd in u.k etc

Th/ u.k mentl hlth servces r xtremly stretchd in u.k s/ = tkes a lt of authrisatn 2 hve n.e1 4rcd in2 inpatnt bcse thre jst r nt enuf beds

UK polce r nt perfct & = hs bn establshd tht thre = systemc racsm & sexsm etc bt thre = nt mch tht thy cn rlly d/ 2 n.e 1 in ths instnce

Thy r detctve constbles tryn2 gt mre infrmatn on wht IC custmrs knw -- tht = it

Thre = nothng 2 arrst ppl fr

I don't need to think it, I experienced it. I specifically said I was talking about US laws, not UK laws, and that I'm not knowledgeable on UK laws. My comment applies to the US only. You mention crimes and being arrested; again, I'm specifically talking about mental health statutes that are used when *no* crime is being committed.

This is an example of the statute in Connecticut. There's several reasonable things listed, involving various professionals and assessments. Then there's one where a single police officer, with no consultation with a healthcare professional of any kind, can make the decision completely by themselves to force someone into physical custody. At that point they immediately remove all of the rights someone would normally have- rights that even criminals are guaranteed- and many other actions are left up to their discretion. For example, the statute I linked states that the person has to be taken to an emergency room, but there's nothing stated on how soon that has to be done, or in what manner it has to be done.

These laws are written vaguely enough that they give police officers incredibly wide berth to do things that would otherwise be considered completely unconstitutional. With no right to contact anyone or record the interaction, a person is literally physically unable to protect themselves.

Most people don't know, and I didn't know until recently, how unjust these statutes are and how they can be used even if they live in the US, because we hear so often about criminal laws when it comes to police interaction, and these specific statutes are never publicly talked about. It's so draining for me to talk about this though, I've explained it in previous posts so this will probably be the last I talk about it, and the blanket statements dismissing what I went through as if everyone was lucky enough to be assigned a good cop are unsettling. The information related to these statutes is available online for most states, for those who want to know.

 

[Dot]

I don't need to think it, I experienced it. I specifically said I was talking about US laws, not UK laws, and that I'm not knowledgeable on UK laws. My comment applies to the US only. You mention crimes and being arrested; again, I'm specifically talking about mental health statutes that are used when *no* crime is being committed.

This is an example of the statute in Connecticut. There's several reasonable things listed, involving various professionals and assessments. Then there's one where a single police officer, with no consultation with a healthcare professional of any kind, can make the decision completely by themselves to force someone into physical custody. At that point they immediately remove all of the rights someone would normally have- rights that even criminals are guaranteed- and many other actions are left up to their discretion. For example, the statute I linked states that the person has to be taken to an emergency room, but there's nothing stated on how soon that has to be done, or in what manner it has to be done.

These laws are written vaguely enough that they give police officers incredibly wide berth to do things that would otherwise be considered completely unconstitutional. With no right to contact anyone or record the interaction, a person is literally physically unable to protect themselves.

Most people don't know, and I didn't know until recently, how unjust these statutes are and how they can be used even if they live in the US, because we hear so often about criminal laws when it comes to police interaction, and these specific statutes are never publicly talked about. It's so draining for me to talk about this though, I've explained it in previous posts so this will probably be the last I talk about it, and the blanket statements dismissing what I went through as if everyone was lucky enough to be assigned a good cop are unsettling. The information related to these statutes is available online for most states, for those who want to know.

Ok -- cn apprci8 tht

Slf jst wn2 avd cre8tng xtra strss & panc --- currnt stuatn = tht u.k detctves r makng vists 2 u.k membrs

Tht = nt smethng 2 strss abt

If stuatn xtends 2 u.s.a thn th/ convrsatn cn mve 2 consqunces of tht bt atm thre = nothng 2 suggst tht = an issu

 

[Whale_bones]

Ok -- cn apprci8 tht

Slf jst wn2 avd cre8tng xtra strss & panc --- currnt stuatn = tht u.k detctves r makng vists 2 u.k membrs

Tht = nt smethng 2 strss abt

If stuatn xtends 2 u.s.a thn th/ convrsatn cn mve 2 consqunces of tht bt atm thre = nothng 2 suggst tht = an issu

Thanks for reading and understanding. I understand not wanting to create unnecessary stress/panic, and I think for all the people that have posted about having fine experiences with cops just talking to them, they truly have no need to worry about anything taking place other than talking (as they're likely to get law enforcement from the same station/area, if they have any more visits).

I think it's reasonable to consider the likelihood of second visits in other countries besides the U.K. though, as there's no reason that I know of why the U.K. would be the only one to do that, and I also know that some U.S. law enforcement is interested in getting statements and evidence to give to other agencies to aid in the prosecution of KL. So while those not in the U.K. shouldn't expect it to happen at this point, being prepared can be a very important thing for those of us who know our local LE is unreasonable and/or hostile, and we can have things like recording devices accessible and ready to use, along with up-to-date knowledge of our state laws/statutes.