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Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
I'm not a native English speaker, I'm an English teacher, and English is a weird language. So, I have many questions and why not ask them here, where I've encountered some linguistic virtuosi.

My first question is aimed at Britons: In what contexts is Cockney rhyming slang socially accepted? By that I mean using single words like "China", "whistle", and "Rosie". I actually teach my pupils a little bit of Cockney rhyming slang and they usually find it entertaining. Is it a good or bad idea to teach them that? I know there's also Australian rhyming slag and it would be interesting to hear about that too.
 
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Deleted member 1465

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Jul 31, 2018
6,921
In what contexts is Cockney rhyming slang socially accepted?
If you come from London and speak with the local accent. And even then, only using it in a sphere where it is understood.
Anything else sounds silly IMO. It would be like affecting a local accent. Maybe it's a form of flattery, but it just sounds odd most of the time.
Having said that...language IS fluid, as a northerner I'd never use Cockney rhyming slang but...the occasional borrowed word might pop in to speech like referring to a suit as a whistle, but only if I was being a bit comical, I'd never walk into clothes shop up here and ask for the whistle n'flute section LOL. But I might wink at someone and say "Nice whistle, mate" in a fake Cockney accent.

NB. I love being referred to as a 'Briton' rather than as 'English.' Makes me feel all native and ancient instead of conquered with tones of repressed racism :blarg:
 
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Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
If you come from London and speak with the local accent. And even then, only using it in a sphere where it is understood.
Anything else sounds silly IMO. It would be like affecting a local accent. Maybe it's a form of flattery, but it just sounds odd most of the time.
Having said that...language IS fluid, as a northerner I'd never use Cockney rhyming slang but...the occasional borrowed word might pop in to speech like referring to a suit as a whistle, but only if I was being a bit comical, I'd never walk into clothes shop up here and ask for the whistle n'flute section LOL. But I might wink at someone and say "Nice whistle, mate" in a fake Cockney accent.

NB. I love being referred to as a 'Briton' rather than as 'English.' Makes me feel all native and ancient instead of conquered with tones of repressed racism :blarg:

So in short, only sparingly and jokingly unless you're from London? 'Tis a shame, because I think it sounds cool. As for the word Briton, I know what for instance the Scottish think of being called English. One shouldn't anger people with claymores. :P
 
Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Oct 30, 2019
25,159
I can articulate myself rather well when need be. But many languages are devolving into regional/internet slang, English especially.

The internet has had a massive impact on language and communication. We're still figuring out the consequences of that. We like to touch the fire first then learn about the pain afterwards :))
 
D

Deleted member 1465

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Jul 31, 2018
6,921
This typo made me giggle because slag is slang for slut/whore.
LOL oh how did I miss that? I really need to pay more attention, I would have fallen on that with gleeful abandon had I noticed :pfff:

So in short, only sparingly and jokingly unless you're from London? 'Tis a shame, because I think it sounds cool. As for the word Briton, I know what for instance the Scottish think of being called English. One shouldn't anger people with claymores. :P
English is kind of a shared language in these islands. But...it is a conquered land. Many waves of invaders and immigrants throughout history and prehistory have shaped the political geography and language, like many countries, but Britain even more so.
The 'natives' of this land are the Welsh, Cornish, Manx, Briganti (a Northern English tribe), Irish and...the Scots are a bit of a complicated matter, as are the 'Irish.' Successive waves of people have colonised Ireland in the past, with the fair haired Irish being only the most recent. The Irish and the Scoti swapped places a lot in prehistory too, as there was much travel and trade over the sea between them. And ofc the Picti arose in Scotland during the Roman occupation. Latys not even mention the Romans. The modern Scottish are currently British, but that may change as the Union collapses and political power devolves even more. They are, however, definitely NOT English, any more than I am Scottish.
It's all very confusing, and many Britons (or at least the southern English) largely have no genuine ethnicity: the English are a mish-mash of Welsh, Angle, Saxon, Jute, Danish, Latin and Norman, all subsumed into a background of regional accents. The Welsh are the real natives of that part of the land, but they were marginalised by the Romans and later by the Saxons, English and Normans too. The term 'wales' means 'foreigner' in the pre-Roman Brythonic tongue and is what the Romans called the natives, that then slipped into the native parlance to refer proudly to themselves! It's no wonder there is Welsh and Scottish hatred for the 'English.' They have stronger ethnicity than the bastardised English, who have pushed them out to the margins in the past.
What often galls me is the utterly inaccurate concept of being 'English' touted by many nationalist militants. They appear to have little concept of exactly where their supposed ethnicity originates from, which is largely from the Germanic tribes in the post-Roman period. The 'English' as much as anyone are descended from immigrants and belong here no more than any other wave of colonising invaders.
And even before the Romans got here, there was far more mixing of cultures and travel than is commonly realised. For example, many people think of the Bronze Age barrow builders as natives to these islands, however most of that culture was influenced by the continental Beaker people and may even have directly supplanted the pre-existing Neolithic populations.

Sorry, I got a bit carried away there! :hihi:

I personally wouldn't imitate someone else's dialect or slang in polite conversation. If it was done to me, I'd find it disrespectful and even offensive. The exception is when you know someone. I had a flatmate from N. Ireland once who expressed himself solely by using the word 'fuck.' We all used to take the piss out of him relentlessly about that and his accent, but we could get away with it. LOL he just told us to "Fuck off."
 
Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
Another question: Is there a difference between "think of" and "think about"? If there's no difference, which one do you prefer?
 
D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,921
Another question: Is there a difference between "think of" and "think about"? If there's no difference, which one do you prefer?
I don't think there is a difference. If there is it's very subtle. For example: thinking of you expresses solidarity. Thinking about you sounds kinda creepy. That's the only difference that comes to mind. I've got no other preference between the two. English is such an odd language.
 
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Sherri

Sherri

Archangel
Sep 28, 2020
13,796
If you come from London and speak with the local accent. And even then, only using it in a sphere where it is understood.
Anything else sounds silly IMO. It would be like affecting a local accent. Maybe it's a form of flattery, but it just sounds odd most of the time.
Having said that...language IS fluid, as a northerner I'd never use Cockney rhyming slang but...the occasional borrowed word might pop in to speech like referring to a suit as a whistle, but only if I was being a bit comical, I'd never walk into clothes shop up here and ask for the whistle n'flute section LOL. But I might wink at someone and say "Nice whistle, mate" in a fake Cockney accent.

NB. I love being referred to as a 'Briton' rather than as 'English.' Makes me feel all native and ancient instead of conquered with tones of repressed racism :blarg:
Love the London accent Geo, hope you have one.
 
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Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
I don't think there is a difference. If there is it's very subtle. For example: thinking of you expresses solidarity. Thinking about you sounds kinda creepy. That's the only difference that comes to mind. I've got no other preference between the two.

Makes sense. Thanks. For some reason I prefer "think of".

English is such an odd language.

It's an elegant mess I can't help liking. :)
 
Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
In my native language we have a word for when you need company so badly that you almost feel sick; a literal translation of the word would be "company sick". Is there an equivalent to this word in the English language?
 
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Deleted member 1465

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Jul 31, 2018
6,921
I don't think so, not that I know of. I guess 'heartsick' might be the closest, but that's not really it.
 
Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
I don't think so, not that I know of. I guess 'heartsick' might be the closest, but that's not really it.

Never heard "heartsick" before. That's definitely a good word to know. However, it's not really the same thing, as you've already pointed out. Thanks.
 
E

esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
Never heard "heartsick" before. That's definitely a good word to know. However, it's not really the same thing, as you've already pointed out. Thanks.
it would really need to be a triple compound term like 'company-deprived nausea' or 'loneliness-induced sickness' or something
 
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Deleted member 23374

deministrator
Nov 1, 2020
648
Maybe it's time to invent such a word? Seclusion-sick maybe? Be that as it may, thanks for the feedback!
Sensei, can you frame the feeling in a poetic way ?

1607888764224
 
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Deleted member 23374

deministrator
Nov 1, 2020
648
"My heart aches for the company of fellow souls."
bereft of kinship perhaps ?
a yearning for fellowship ?
desolate
broken alone on a windswept stone
that note that floats searching for it's symphony

some examples, travel through poetic form and distill
the ways of things and beings share commonalities
meaning the key may be in an seemingly unrelated concept
or an it or or a what and not necessarily a who/whom
believe in wizardry where words are concerned

also a thesaurus is an invaluable tool.
i hope this helps.
 
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Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
bereft of kinship perhaps ?
a yearning for fellowship ?
desolate
broken alone on a windswept stone
that note that floats searching for it's symphony

some examples, travel through poetic form and distill
the ways of things and beings share commonalities
meaning the key may be in an seemingly unrelated concept
or an it or or a what and not necessarily a who/whom
believe in wizardry where words are concerned

also a thesaurus is an invaluable tool.
i hope this helps.

You speak like a true poet. Thanks for the input!
 

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