NYT story megathread

[Flippy]

I don't know this person but I think this article provides some much needed nuance to the entire topic.

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-nyts-latest-hit-job-backfires/

Yeah, that definitely seems a bit more level headed and actually critical of the way the NYT displayed such hubris.

 

[Pure]

I don't know this person but I think this article provides some much needed nuance to the entire topic.

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-nyts-latest-hit-job-backfires/

Naama Kates runs a podcast understanding incels, she interviewed marquis and Catherine and her daughter about SS I think last year. Anyways, Kelli and the rest of them have a burning hatred for her for whatever reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Her mom died by suicide when she was a teen and despite that she still has a very reasonable outlook on the website and the users.

 

[ContinuousJump]

this article provides some much needed nuance

"The Times apparently made no effort to ... better understand why anyone ... initially sought out the forum ... they would find that the forum is filled with users' traumatic experiences in the mental health system."

If "Life was a 'good thing'." ™ then SS would not exist.

It's simple: If you want SS to stop, just make life a "good thing".

 

[newave3]

I listened to the podcast of the New York Slimes article and I wanted to stick an ice pick into my eardrums. It sounded like something from the NPR leftists loons. The female writer was a detached libtard up talker and the male was a lispy metrosexual.
The podcast was interrupted by NY Times editors patting themselves on the back saying what great journalists they had and that they got into journalism to help people. Beware anyone that says they just want to help people. What they really mean is that they want to control you.

 

[peacefulhorizons]

/r/EMS is talking about the NYT article and their experience with SN attempts

 

[ENDOFTIME]

Suicide has, and always will be, a thing in life. Without sites like this, more ignorant choices and outcomes for suicide will generally be worse. Yes, we are all unique and "special"; however, the most plentiful thing on earth right now is humans so from a numbers standpoint we're a dime a dozen so to speak. No one, except a few family members or friends, will mourn our passing or even notice. Go to the graveyard and look at headstones .... who were these people? Were they good people or bad - important or pawns in life? No one knows or cares. I'm headed to see my creator soon and have hope for eternity no matter whether anyone agrees to a particular view of what happens after life. Reality, now or in the afterlife, will be (is) reality and not based on our individual opinions. Reality will be reality. I choose to hope ..... if others think it is without basis, stupid, or ignorant that's fine ..... it's the last thing no one can take from me on the way out. Happy the NYT writers got a juicy and interesting lead from which to generate a sensational story that will soon be (or already has been) forgotten by the public. A constant occurance in life ..... no matter what happens in public or private .... it's forgotten and passes fairly quickly .... just like out existences. Peace out all ........

 

[Meretlein]

"The Times apparently made no effort to ... better understand why anyone ... initially sought out the forum ... they would find that the forum is filled with users' traumatic experiences in the mental health system."

If "Life was a 'good thing'." ™ then SS would not exist.

It's simple: If you want SS to stop, just make life a "good thing".

Or at least make it safe for suicidal people to talk about their thoughts without it ending up on our medical records (something we have no control over), or getting locked up.

 

[wickedbyessie]

What do you think could be realistically achieved, for both yourself and this website, by doing this?

What's the harm? When has any change ever happened by listening to the belief that "it won't matter by speaking up anyway"…

Nothing really; like I said I doubt they'll respond, but I feel like explaining why I believe choosing to leave this Earth is justified

 

[Circles]

What do you think could be realistically achieved, for both yourself and this website, by doing this?

Not the person you're replying to but after reading this article:

The NYT's latest hit job backfires

“Most suicide websites are about prevention. This one — started in March 2018 by two shadowy figures calling themselves Marquis and Serge — provides explicit directions on how to die.” On Thursday, the New York Times took on another niche online community in a sprawling, 6000 word exposé...

unherd.com

It does make me feel that we should use this opportunity to make others understand our side. Especially given how the article is trying to accuse us as killers and yet by them making this site more known more people and potentially kids will find this site and probably kill themselves. Talk about irresponsibility.

 

[Chinaski]

What's the harm? When has any change ever happened by listening to the belief that "it won't matter by speaking up anyway"…

As I've said elsewhere, if you're going to engage in a PR battle with actual media professionals it's best to know what you're doing, have a strategic aim and a clear positive outcome. Doing this will not get us our peaceful pill anytime soon, but it will keep reigniting the harmful article.

Regarding @Circles post above, l think we should take some solace in the fact that there are some people willing to publish articles, admittedly on a much lower profile outlet, that provide some balance and leave it there imo.

 

[Manaaja]

Fucking idiots.

Me: I have asperger and I need help.
They: No you don't, stop being lazy.
Me: I have ADD, and I need help.
They: No you don't, stop being lazy.
Me: I wish I had friends.
They: Well I'm not gonna be your friend!
Me: I wish I had more money so I could make my life better.
They: I'm not gonna donate to you. I just donated 690€ to a sex game on kickstarter!
Me: I wish I could escape my abusive "family".
They: Well, I'm not interested in helping you.
Me: I wanna ctb.
They: OMG NO! WHATEVER CAN I DO TO HELP YOU! MAYBE IF I SHUT DOWN A WEBSITE AND DOX A FEW STRANGERS THAT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY?

They remind me of those anti-abortionists who want every guy and girl to get pregnant and give the goverment a few babies, but when it comes to feeding the kids, clothing the kids, financing the kids's hobbies, helping those kids, they are nowhere to be seen.

 

[Flippy]

Fucking idiots.

Me: I have asperger and I need help.
They: No you don't, stop being lazy.
Me: I have ADD, and I need help.
They: No you don't, stop being lazy.
Me: I wish I had friends.
They: Well I'm not gonna be your friend!
Me: I wish I had more money so I could make my life better.
They: I'm not gonna donate to you. I just donated 690€ to a sex game on kickstarter!
Me: I wish I could escape my abusive "family".
They: Well, I'm not interested in helping you.
Me: I wanna ctb.
They: OMG NO! WHATEVER CAN I DO TO HELP YOU! MAYBE IF I SHUT DOWN A WEBSITE AND DOX A FEW STRANGERS THAT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY?

They remind me of those anti-abortionists who want every guy and girl to get pregnant and give the goverment a few babies, but when it comes to feeding the kids, clothing the kids, financing the kids's hobbies, helping those kids, they are nowhere to be seen.

Why the hell in some people's puny cerebellum, do things like chronic pain, depression, autism and ADD equate to "laziness"???

 

[Manaaja]

Why the hell in some people's puny cerebellum, do things like chronic pain, depression, autism and ADD equate to "laziness"???

I've noticed that a lot of older people call everything lazyness. If you do nothing but lie in bed or sit in front of the computer for a week because you are mentally too tired to exist, then finally find the mental energy to get up and clean the kitchen and living room, you'll be told that you are lazy because you only cleaned the kitchen plus living room and not the hallway too. Or if you have gained 5 kg weight, and you start exercising, going for walks, weightlifting, push-ups etc., you'll be told that you are lazy and irresponsible because you didn't remember to send an email. At least that's how it is in my toxic "family".

I truly hate it. I wish people understood that asperger and add/adhd are legit reasons to not be able to do something or to have huge troubles doing something. And speaking of asperger, I really wish people took the sensory issues seriously. My life would be ten times better if there was a surgery to reduce hearing. I'm the kind of person who can't sleep if I hear the tiniest of sounds, sounds that usually only animals can hear, which means that I'm usually completely stressed day and night and I can rarely sleep.

And the worst is when NTs say "Why don't you just wear earplugs?". I always tell them "Why don't you get a hearing that is five times better than normal human's and start wearing earplugs for the rest of your life every second of your life? How long till your ear canals will bleed from the constant use of ear plugs?". I'd rather die than wear earplugs for the rest of my life just because NTs design everything to be as un-soundproofed and noisy as possible.

There should be a law that aspergers should always investigate every building and apartment and room to test its sound-proofing. All buildings not not passing the tests should be replaced by actual soundproof buildings. Noise problems cause harm and stress to NTs too, so it would benefit both parties.

 

[Flippy]

I've noticed that a lot of older people call everything lazyness. If you do nothing but lie in bed or sit in front of the computer for a week because you are mentally too tired to exist, then finally find the mental energy to get up and clean the kitchen and living room, you'll be told that you are lazy because you only cleaned the kitchen plus living room and not the hallway too. Or if you have gained 5 kg weight, and you start exercising, going for walks, weightlifting, push-ups etc., you'll be told that you are lazy and irresponsible because you didn't remember to send an email. At least that's how it is in my toxic "family".

I truly hate it. I wish people understood that asperger and add/adhd are legit reasons to not be able to do something or to have huge troubles doing something. And speaking of asperger, I really wish people took the sensory issues seriously. My life would be ten times better if there was a surgery to reduce hearing. I'm the kind of person who can't sleep if I hear the tiniest of sounds, sounds that usually only animals can hear, which means that I'm usually completely stressed day and night and I can rarely sleep.

And the worst is when NTs say "Why don't you just wear earplugs?". I always tell them "Why don't you get a hearing that is five times better than normal human's and start wearing earplugs for the rest of your life every second of your life? How long till your ear canals will bleed from the constant use of ear plugs?". I'd rather die than wear earplugs for the rest of my life just because NTs design everything to be as un-soundproofed and noisy as possible.

There should be a law that aspergers should always investigate every building and apartment and room to test its sound-proofing. All buildings not not passing the tests should be replaced by actual soundproof buildings. Noise problems cause harm and stress to NTs too, so it would benefit both parties.

I have quite sensitive hearing, but not to the level you describe. I usually hear the smallest of sounds that others generally don't hear and they usually think I'm nuts!

I used to have to wear ear plugs all the time at work and my ears became very irritated. But what's worse is that with ear plugs in, all I could hear was the sound of blood rushing in my ears, that sort of thing, like a constant rumbling, so I struggled to hear people talking. I don't know if it makes much sense. But I think anyone that would volunteer someone to wear ear plugs all the time should be forced to do the same!

I wish I could think of something that would help :-( I can get bothered by sounds too, but that usually is when I'm having trouble sleeping and I just seem to get too tuned in to sounds.

But one thing that irritates the hell out of me are the Ricers with their dumb cars and exhausts, revving at top RPM and taking an entire minute to drive past. If my car was making that kind of noise it would be doing about 150 mph and I'd be tearing past in 1 second!

 

[Laowaiboss]

Fucking idiots.

Me: I have asperger and I need help.
They: No you don't, stop being lazy.
Me: I have ADD, and I need help.
They: No you don't, stop being lazy.
Me: I wish I had friends.
They: Well I'm not gonna be your friend!
Me: I wish I had more money so I could make my life better.
They: I'm not gonna donate to you. I just donated 690€ to a sex game on kickstarter!
Me: I wish I could escape my abusive "family".
They: Well, I'm not interested in helping you.
Me: I wanna ctb.
They: OMG NO! WHATEVER CAN I DO TO HELP YOU! MAYBE IF I SHUT DOWN A WEBSITE AND DOX A FEW STRANGERS THAT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY?

They remind me of those anti-abortionists who want every guy and girl to get pregnant and give the goverment a few babies, but when it comes to feeding the kids, clothing the kids, financing the kids's hobbies, helping those kids, they are nowhere to be seen.

Lol, this is so accurate.

Also:

Suicidal person: "I'm living in poverty struggling to feed myself and one paycheck away from being homeless, I have debt that I can never repay, I'm doomed to be a wage slave until my last breath."

Pro-life person: "Hey! I know how you are feeling! Why don't you call this toll-free number, they can listen to you and pretend to care (and eventually call the cops to beat you up if you tell them you are about to CTB)!"

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

Looks like the following 2 Twitter accounts have been deleted = @fixthe26 and @EmmaFox05 :)

 

[Circles]

Looks like the following 2 Twitter accounts have been deleted = @fixthe26 and @EmmaFox05 :)
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View attachment 81048

I've learned they constantly delete and reactivate their accounts over and over again for some reason.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

Well damn...

 

[Elegy]

I have not read this NYT article. But I'm sure it touches upon; WHY so many people would prefer to die

 

[bulljacket]

Or at least make it safe for suicidal people to talk about their thoughts without it ending up on our medical records (something we have no control over), or getting locked up.

This is spot on. I once called the lifeline and the police showed up. I'm very lucky they didn't take me away.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

Hmm my polite post regarding thread hijacking got deleted? Whatever mod did that can you PM and tell me why? Please and thank you...

 

[Flippy]

So @Manaaja blocked me too.
That actually saddens me because I think @Manaaja is asexual & they did it because an emotionally unstable, paranoid, self-admitted misandrist & alcoholic (probably a BPD sufferer, which is tragic & I know her pain is horrible) spent a week furiously accusing me of being a big bad man who hates asexual people (wtf?) without providing a shred of evidence for it. Convinced I'm lying about being a victim of pedophilia, she lost all control & wouldn't stop repeating she was going to ctb because I'm evil. I know she managed to poison many a member's mind against me before the mods intervened. A lot of people on here know I'm a white, tall, bearded man who has hypersexuality disorder, how could I possibly not be a monster? Drama, drama, drama... Misandry is a very real thing, every bit as real as misogyny, especially these days. Being homosexual protects you from misandrists only if you're "feminine". Our species really sucks.

Well, I did write a response to your post but it was deleted for apparently derailing the thread :-(

Now I come to think of it, there have been other posts that were just as "off topic" as my response?

 

[looking.glass]

Naama Kates runs a podcast understanding incels, she interviewed marquis and Catherine and her daughter about SS I think last year. Anyways, Kelli and the rest of them have a burning hatred for her for whatever reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Her mom died by suicide when she was a teen and despite that she still has a very reasonable outlook on the website and the users.

Her Unherd article is good.

I have lost friends to suicide. I cared about them, knew they were in pain, and knew it wasn't getting better for them. Should I have wanted them to suffer for decades because I would miss them? What could be more selfish than that?

The Times article pushes the narrative that somehow society can and should "save" people who want to die, for whatever reason, because someone else doesn't want to feel guilty or sad. "If you love someone, force them to be miserable for 20, 30, 50 years"? That's not love.

I would not be surprised if everyone interviewed for the NYT piece felt guilty that they contributed to the CTB's misery, and are rejecting their role. They blame the victim (the suicide is selfish bullshit), they blame this site, they'll blame anyone except themselves.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

So it appears that @fixthe26 twitter account is active again. Maybe someone is flagging it and twitter keeps putting them on timeout?

Also our favorite person Emma Davis made a new twitter account @EmmaFox06 to replace her old one ""05. Girl just loves making alts apparently. One of her latest twitter posts after site went private suggests she has more alts or will make a new alt to continue getting access. :/

 

[Flippy]

So it appears that @fixthe26 twitter account is active again. Maybe someone is flagging it and twitter keeps putting them on timeout?

Also our favorite person Emma Davis made a new twitter account @EmmaFox06 to replace her old one ""05. Girl just loves making alts apparently. One of her latest twitter posts after site went private suggests she has more alts or will make a new alt to continue getting access. :/

View attachment 81080

What the hell is she playing at :-( I'm still quite pissed off at her for seeking sympathy when apparently it was just a game.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

Still talking about SS, new talk tonight about it. Now is SS going to be represented in these "talks"? Probably not. :/

 

[Flippy]

Still talking about SS, new talk tonight about it. Now is SS going to be represented in these "talks"? Probably not. :/

View attachment 81084
View attachment 81085

Oh so heroic!

 

[omoidarui]

I was actually the one who reported you. This is not because I contest anyone who wants to help others live (although I am unable to fathom how lying about aspects of yourself in an attempt to resonate with members for whom these aspects are true and deeply personal is even vaguely helpful, as when truths are unearthed and the "desperate member" finds out you lied to get into their bubble, there is possibility they could be worse off and with trust issues about opening up to anyone in the future).

Also regardless of the motive of your postings, you still said "it's best to take N with an antiemetic". Even if it was said with the intention of infiltrating people's trust, you still posted information that could help facilitate the suicide of a reader. I was just remarking on the painful irony of FixThe26 blindly applauding someone who does the thing they assert carries a "14-year prison sentence" (according to Catherine, who attempted to coerce Simba with this recently; it was because you were also harassing Simba in your final posts on @Harriet that was the main giveaway because that seems to be a shared leisure interest of FT26 )

If anyone chooses to escape the "evil of this forum" and go into recovery, they'd be supported here anyway. tbh, from what I've seen, people are actually supported more if they recover than if they post a goodbye topic

 

[Flippy]

View attachment 81088

I was actually the one who reported you. This is not because I contest anyone who wants to help others live (although I am unable to fathom how lying about aspects of yourself in an attempt to resonate with members for whom these aspects are true and deeply personal is even vaguely helpful, as when truths are unearthed and the "desperate member" finds out you lied to get into their bubble, there is possibility they could be worse off and with trust issues about opening up to anyone in the future).

Also regardless of the motive of your postings, you still said "it's best to take N with an antiemetic". Even if it was said with the intention of infiltrating people's trust, you still posted information that could help facilitate the suicide of a reader. I was just remarking on the painful irony of FixThe26 blindly applauding someone who does the thing they assert carries a "14-year prison sentence" (according to Catherine, who attempted to coerce Simba with this recently; it was because you were also harassing Simba in your final posts on @Harriet that was the main giveaway because that seems to be a shared leisure interest of FT26 )

If anyone chooses to escape the "evil of this forum" and go into recovery, they'd be supported here anyway

Well all I would say to her posts is...Thanks for making me use up some of my extremely finite resources worrying about you @Harriet. I was worried you might have a very triggering appointment to go through that a lot of us really struggle to deal with. Be that benefits or psychiatrist appointments. All this to fool people like me and others that actually might care about the person you pretended to be. It occupied my thoughts a lot and I was hoping that the outcome wouldn't be as severe as you thought it might be. Also the worry that this brought up about similar situations I might have to deal with too in the future. I really feel like you have abused mine and others humanity. I sincerely hope you won't find a way back into these forums.

 

[SlipAway]

Sigh NYTimes. I'm a long time reader and there is a lot to like about it but also so much to dislike. I like how they've managed to make quality content that people are willing to pay for. Otherwise on internet it's just otherwise been a buzzfeed style race to the bottom of blocks of words that masquerade as articles. But this is a prime example of 'investigative journalism' run amok. It's easy for journalists to look at the body count, paint it as a black and white issue with themselves as the heroes by being able to uncover the identities of the previously hidden site operators = bad guy predators. There's no discussion of the right to die or euthanasia or any of the philosophical ideas that you'd expect a progressive, ostensibly higher brow media outlet to at least touch upon. Instead it's just link the site to the incels and that predator rapist who got caught, good job super journalists for exposing this pit of vipers.

I myself have made some extremely meaningful connections to others here who are in the same boat as myself that I'd have no chance to otherwise meet. A member who shared the exact same chronic incurable illness but was halfway around the world from me CTBed about a month ago. They didn't want the publicity of a Goodbye thread but after corresponding almost daily for half a year, I was in touch with them until their final minutes. I hope I was able to provide them with some small lightening of their burden by lending an ear for them to share stuff that they couldn't discuss with friends or family (or even therapists) for fear of having their plans thwarted. They certainly provided me with a sense that I'm not completely insane for wanting out of this broken failing body. Others are in a similar boat, have reached the same conclusions and I shouldn't feel guilty and ashamed for deciding on this course of action.

Above all else I certainly respect their courage to stare evenly into the vast unknown of death, make a plan and take the leap. I myself have been trying to hold out for this year in order to wrap up some loose ends in my life and try to say some form of goodbye to family members. But at the end of the day it is genuinely terrifying to look into the abyss and make that leap. I respect all those who have done so, weighing the options before and coming to a rational decision that it's genuinely the best course of action. I think in the future lumping all instances of suicide with mental illness is going to be seen as crazy as doing so with homosexuality in the past. One generation's insanity is another's lucidity.

I too am a longtime reader of the NYTimes and depend on it for usually quality content. But this time they took the cheap route and since even the most major stories vanish after a few news cycles, I doubt they will revisit it to provide a clearer picture of this site and its people. I made it a significant part of my life to know about ways to cbt when my dearest friends were dying of aids in the 80s. I am new to this site and found it because of the NYT article. The compassion and honesty I see here has already endeared me to many of you. May 2022 be kinder to us than 2021.