NYT story megathread

[insipixiecat]

Thank you for welcoming me into this community. I would appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of things I haven't done, such as throwing around insults.
Have a wonderful day.

Mocking people who've had their private information published online without their consent is pretty insulting if you ask any reasonable person.

 

[wickedbyessie]

I heard about SS from that NYT "The Daily" podcast feature, the 33-minute segment. Did y'all know you can actually email [email protected]? Maybe if lots of us expressed how damaging their segment was, they'd have to make a counter statement about it. I had never heard of this site but the stance taken by the Times was so appalling and disturbing to me that I joined and I've been reading threads all week. I also emailed them a full single spaced page about how gross I thought their public position was. Attached my statement if anyone's interested. But more than anything think it'd be cool if massive amounts of people emailed them too.

 

[NumbItAll]

"For many people, suicidal thoughts will eventually pass, experts say. Treatment and detailed plans to keep safe can help. But clinicians and researchers warn that people are much more likely to attempt suicide if they learn about methods and become convinced that it's the right thing to do. The suicide site facilitates both."

As with many articles that discuss suicide, the New York Times once again perpetuates the perspective that suicide is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem." The media constantly clings to the conclusion that suicidality is an ephemeral absurdity regardless of the circumstances. Those who desire death are deemed ill, illogical, impulsive or incapable, rather than autonomous adults with the capacity to make their own choices.

An uncomfortable truth is that chronic suicidality exists - it is not always a fleeting bout of despair that will dissipate with time. I have been suicidal since the age of four. I'm thirty now. I have tried many different treatments, both medication and therapy. Nothing has helped. Both have been focused on symptom reduction, not on the complex causes that underpin my desire to die. Trauma-informed interventions for those who have been abused to the extent I have are woefully insufficient, rife with gaslighting, platitudes and victim-blaming.

There are those who can recover and overcome their suicidality. I do not dispute that. But it is ignorant and shortsighted to suggest that this is true for everyone, that we are all just vulnerable people without mental capacity who merely need to hold on for that elusive "light at the end of the tunnel." I have read many, many stories on this forum of those who have tried talking therapies and other treatment options, to no avail. What are we expected to do? Just hold on and live because society dictates we should? Call a helpline to hear another "suicide prevention" script that we have all heard a million times? Kill ourselves quietly on our own so that others aren't made to feel uncomfortable?

I'll tell you what has helped me immensely: This site. I am alive because of SS. I am alive because I have acquired the means to die on my own terms when I feel ready, which is a huge weight lifted. I am alive because this is the only place where I have encountered like-minded individuals with similar stories and circumstances. I am alive because I feel accepted and supported. Unlike elsewhere, I have never been shamed, ostracised or mistreated when I have shared my history of abuse here and my illnesses. I have been listened to and understood without being bombarded with platitudes or institutionalised against my will. I have had my autonomy and choices validated, no matter what I decide to do with my life. I have made friends and built meaningful connections with some members here, people I am very grateful to know.

I am alive because my life circumstances have begun to improve. However, had I never found SS, I wouldn't have lived long enough to see these improvements. I would have thrown myself in front of a train like I had originally planned, and either died or survived with horrific, permanent injuries. I am so glad now that I didn't resort to this. But crucially, no-one should have to do that. No-one deserves to live a life of suffering in secrecy, resorting to frightening, painful and unreliable methods to end their struggles. Every autonomous adult capable of making an informed choice should be able to access peaceful, reliable methods. Voluntary euthanasia should be a fundamental human right so that we can all die on our own terms. That would make websites like this obsolete, but evidently the pro-life MSM aren't prepared to acknowledge that.

Does this mean I am no longer suicidal and will lead a long life? No. I am still suicidal and there is still a high likelihood that I will eventually die by my own hand. My illnesses are incurable and I would still rather die on my own terms when I feel the time is right, rather than deteriorate for decades. My life has certainly been extended somewhat, and I hope I can have some good memories before I go, but I ultimately still want to decide how and when I die. Why is that so unacceptable? We are all thrust into an existence none of us ever asked for, so why can't we decide when we want it to be over? Why must society be so focused on quantity of life over quality? I would much prefer to have a couple of happy years than to suffer in pain for decades and die from circumstances beyond my control.

Instead of suicide being a dirty secret, here we can have an open, nuanced dialogue about dignity in death, something that is glaringly absent in the MSM and society. We deserve to be heard, listened to and understood, not conveniently swept under the carpet and censored. I think this is the only platform I have actually felt listened to without a pro-life rhetoric being shoved down my throat.

People who come here join of their own volition. No-one is forced to be here. A more pressing issue than the forum is why those who have passed felt the need to access SS to begin with and what contributed to their suicidality, and what can be changed so that people are not brought to this point in the first place. I empathise with those who are grieving for their loved ones and I understand why they are angry and need someone or something to blame, but further censorship, demonisation of the members here and adding more stigma to an already taboo topic is not the answer.

Until dignity in dying is a human right around the world and the underlying causes of suicide are adequately addressed (gaps in provisions of health services and improving care quality, affordable housing, healthcare and food, community support, listening to people and providing practical support, better abuse prevention initiatives, addressing discrimination of marginalised groups and much, much more), there will always be a place for platforms where these issues can be discussed candidly and without stigma. With suicide being actively censored on many popular social media platforms, communities like SS are desperately needed. It's an important space and for some of us, the only space we have.

I was going to highlight this quote, but I can see it has already been done, and quite eloquently. It's just so comically dismissive and invalidating!

 

[D&D]

I heard about SS from that NYT "The Daily" podcast feature, the 33-minute segment. Did y'all know you can actually email [email protected]? Maybe if lots of us expressed how damaging their segment was, they'd have to make a counter statement about it. I had never heard of this site but the stance taken by the Times was so appalling and disturbing to me that I joined and I've been reading threads all week. I also emailed them a full single spaced page about how gross I thought their public position was. Attached my statement if anyone's interested. But more than anything think it'd be cool if massive amounts of people emailed them too.

I did just that. Wrote and emailed a letter. The calm, courteous letter that highlights the dangers of distorted reporting, especially from a large and powerful paper, and the pain and suffering it causes to those they wrote about. Including complete lack of consideration as to how will publishing such details as names, screenshots of conversations and descriptions of methods used, affect those whose '1.2 million messages from the site' its reports 'analyzed' and 'examined members' online histories …'

I intended to share an extract from the letter on here ... but every time I tried - my post (including on my profile wall) would not go through. I do not know why.

I will try post the extract here but not sure if it will work.

No it did not work. Oh well. I tried.

 

[squidgirl]

You know, as a new member, I gotta say this site wasn't as easy to access as the article's making it out to be. They're treating it like some cult that easily pumps out suicides like a factory. It took me a few good hours of active searching and skimming through years old news articles to finally find one that said the site's name. If you don't know about the site beforehand, chances are you won't find it. Unless you specifically seek it out. So it's not like someone mildly depressed's going to randomly stumble across this site and ctb. I feel like you really do have to be at your wit's end and deeply resonate with what's being posted to join this site. Which is why I applied for an account after lurking for a while.

And, in all honesty, I'm glad for it. I have a place where I can say what I'm truly feeling to people who can understand. Plus, if I never found the site I probably would've botched a hanging attempt badly. So thanks SS for not letting me be casted for a live-action Veggietales.

exactly, i don't even remember how i found it but i remember it wasn't easy

 

[wickedbyessie]

I did just that. Wrote and emailed a letter. The calm, courteous letter that highlights the dangers of distorted reporting, especially from a large and powerful paper, and the pain and suffering it causes to those they wrote about. Including complete lack of consideration as to how will publishing such details as names, screenshots of conversations and descriptions of methods used, affect those whose '1.2 million messages from the site' its reports 'analyzed' and 'examined members' online histories …'

I intended to share an extract from the letter on here ... but every time I tried - my post (including on my profile wall) would not go through. I do not know why.

I will try post the extract here but not sure if it will work.

No it did not work. Oh well. I tried.

Oh all I did was screenshot mine and upload them as attached photos! Think it's so important for them to hear from actual people on the site. It's so insane to me. Someone else on here did it and then posted The NY Times reply to them and it was so cold, it said something like "I hope you can find the solace in a trusted friend o family that you find on the site"…just blatantly not listening.

 

[squidgirl]

the quote "it's like giving someone with road rage a handgun" kinda stuck with me, and i knew it was wrong, but i've just figured out why:

it paints suicide as a completely irrational, uninformed, spur-of-the-moment decision. while this is true for a lot of suicides, it isn't always the case. especially with the example that NYT is talking about, especially with SN, especially with this website. it's impossible for SN to be a spur-of-the-moment decision, it requires ordering it online, waiting for the delivery, fasting beforehand, etc.

it's also almost impossible for it to be uninformed. i may not speak for everyone, but for me, it was pretty difficult to find out about this website, SN, all that. i'd think that most people who know about SN (before this article) have thought for a good amount of time about what they're doing.

also, suicide isn't always irrational. i know that for a lot of people that commit, it's them running just based on emotion, but that is nowhere near the case for me. it has been very difficult for me to overpower my emotions, because i do want to ctb, but my emotions/survival instinct do not.

i think a more apt metaphor would be "it's like giving someone who does not want a child an abortion". it shouldn't be a spur-of-the-moment thing, the person should be informed, but past that, there's no point trying to say that it's always a bad thing.

 

[wickedbyessie]

The NYT set out to write a hit piece. They could have made a good faith effort to explore SS which would have included talking to members who found SS beneficial, exploring the factors that push people to this community, and perhaps most importantly, analyzing suicide from the perspective of autonomy. The ethos of this site is that we have a fundamental ownership of our bodies and lives, yet there is absolutely no exploration of that claim in their article. Instead, they pivot away from the idea that adults have the right to make decisions about their bodies and lives and make it about "saving the children" (Never mind that parents should be watching over their children instead of expecting adults to censor themselves and throttle conversations about our pain, lives, and bodies) and construct a caricature of adult suicidal people as being impulsive and pathologically out of touch with reality. Our side of the story doesn't matter. NYT decided that SS is bad and is now doing everything they can to make us look bad and make life hell for the administrators.

I share your disappointment.

[email protected]

I've posted this a few diff places people might notice but it's this type of stuff that needs to be shared with them. Very goddamn rational. Regardless of whether we think they'll listen or not. They might not. But they also can't really ignore massive amounts of these very real and valid counter opinions.

 

[eryu]

It's pretty pathetic how they mention that this place gets 4 times as many monthly visits as the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline and still fail to draw the conclusion that this forum must offer something very important to people. There's no effort put into understanding why it is that people come here. This whole hullabaloo is sad and pathetic. It's just kinda embarrassing to think about how human beings can be this dumb and yet so confident in being righteous.

And why would it be a surprise that the total traffic for a site that has people from all over the world is more than the AMERICAN suicide prevention site?
Even when they're writing articles mentioning people in other countries, it is like they somehow manage to forget that other countries actually exist and have their own separate citizens, systems with their own public services.

Also, SS is a huge forum with a community of people discussing a wide range of topics and a ton of resources.
Most people who are using the suicide prevention lifeline would just call the number and what 'resources' they could find on the website are identical to things you can find on endless other sites (and that you hear and see in real life all the time)
It's such a stupid comparison.

Look at this insultingly normified horseshit btw
https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/help-yourself/

Self-Care During the Holidays
The holiday season can be a difficult and stressful time for many. That's why it's so important to stop and listen to your own needs, too. Here are some self-care ideas for December and beyond. #SeasonOfSelfCare

• Take a walk outside
• Write a love letter to yourself
• Write about something you are grateful for in your life (it can be a person, place, or thing)
• Create a happy playlist and a coping playlist
• Treat yourself to a favorite snack
• Watch your favorite movie
• Forgive someone
• Forgive yourself
• Say thank you to someone who has helped you recently
• Create a DIY self-care kit of things that make you feel better
• Take your medication on time
• Take a new fitness class at the gym (yoga, Zumba, etc.)
• Plan a lunch date with someone you haven't seen in a while
• Pamper yourself with an at-home spa day
• Take a day off from social media and the Internet
• Reach out to your support system
• Cuddle with your pets or a friend's pet
• Take the time to stop, stand and stretch for 2 minutes
• Wake up a little earlier and enjoy your a morning cup of tea or coffee before the morning rush
• Take a hot shower or bath
• Take yourself out to dinner
• Volunteer
• Start that one project you've been contemplating for a while
• Sit with your emotions, and allow yourself to feel and accept them. It's okay to laugh, cry, just feel whatever you're feeling with no apologies!
• Cook a favorite meal from scratch
• Take a 5-minute break in your day
• Compliment someone (and yourself, too!)
• Give yourself permission to say no
• De-clutter your mind: write down 5 things that are bothering you, and then literally throw them away
• Donate 3 pieces of clothing that you no longer wear
• Take the time to find 5 beautiful things during your daily routine
• Take a mental health day from school, work, etc.
• Take a nap
• Reach out to the Lifeline

 

[RainAndSadness]

Emma Davis. Read her posts, compare it to her statement in the NYT interview. She leaked chat messages to Twitter while enjoying ALL the support from this community. This should tell you enough about the credibility of her claims. Yes, this is one of her many alt-accounts.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/members/harriet.32711/

 

[Chinaski]

Emma Davis. Read her posts, compare it to her statement in the NYT interview. She leaked chat messages to Twitter while enjoying ALL the support from this community. This should tell you enough about the credibility of her claims. Yes, this is one of her many alt-accounts.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/members/harriet.32711/

Wow. Can l ask was that account here previously too because tbqh l immediately associated it with two accounts l remember from way back

 

[RainAndSadness]

Wow. Can l ask was that account here previously too because tbqh l immediately associated it with two accounts l remember from way back

Yes this was her sixth(!) account. She is quite obsessed with this forum. It's why I posted this here.

 

[Callie Arcale]

Emma Davis. Read her posts, compare it to her statement in the NYT interview. She leaked chat messages to Twitter while enjoying ALL the support from this community. This should tell you enough about the credibility of her claims. Yes, this is one of her many alt-accounts.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/members/harriet.32711/

I cannot view this account. Do you have any idea why?
Edit: Now it works :-)

 

[Circles]

Emma Davis. Read her posts, compare it to her statement in the NYT interview. She leaked chat messages to Twitter while enjoying ALL the support from this community. This should tell you enough about the credibility of her claims. Yes, this is one of her many alt-accounts.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/members/harriet.32711/

Wait a second you mean to tell us that the person who posted this very thread was her?

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/anyone-seen-this-ss-in-the-news.79083/

Why would she do this? Wtf is going on here I feel like we're being played with.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Wait a second you mean to tell us that the person who posted this very thread was her?

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/anyone-seen-this-ss-in-the-news.79083/

Why would she do this? Wtf is going on here I feel like we're being played with.

She is on another level. I think she wants to enjoy both the support of the anti-choice crowd and this forum. It's basically Jeremy 2.0.

 

[Circles]

She is on another level. I think she wants to enjoy both the support of the anti-choice crowd and this forum. It's basically Jeremy 2.0.

She is also on Twitter constantly posting on the SS account. Wtf is wrong with this lady?

 

[RainAndSadness]

She is also on Twitter constantly posting on the SS account. Wtf is wrong with this lady?

[...]

One word: two-face.

 

[omoidarui]

your "strong woman" is posting questionable content that you might deem as "promoting/assisting suicide"

 

[Simba]

She is also on Twitter constantly posting on the SS account. Wtf is wrong with this lady?

View attachment 80942

Good for her... just cause she got "better" dont mean that everyone has to follow suit. ugh .. and fyi personally speaking there is no way in hell id be able to wait that long for anything - or help for that matter.. reminds me of a comic strip i once read and there was this person was gonna jump or something and this cop or what not yelled dont do it yet that the suicide hotline or whatever are on their way. Sigh

Emma Davis. Read her posts, compare it to her statement in the NYT interview. She leaked chat messages to Twitter while enjoying ALL the support from this community. This should tell you enough about the credibility of her claims. Yes, this is one of her many alt-accounts.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/members/harriet.32711/

I had some doubt on maybe is her from the way shes typing but i wasnt sure.. hm typical :/

 

[Flippy]

She is also on Twitter constantly posting on the SS account. Wtf is wrong with this lady?

View attachment 80942

She mentions that she is in a program for people with personality disorders. Perhaps this could be how her illness manifests? To be clear I'm not saying that I think people who have this illness all behave like this.

My mother is prone to this sort of thing, courting both sides at the same time :-( Convincing both "camps" she's a mole or double agent.

Then she would sit back and watch the battle take place revelling in the knowledge that she had whipped up the frenzy. Of course both sides would have no idea they had been played.

I feel a little annoyed that I was concerned about this meeting she had mentioned in that thread. I did feel bad for her and it occupied my thoughts a fair bit over the days that followed. :-(

 

[Pure]

Yes this was her sixth(!) account. She is quite obsessed with this forum. It's why I posted this here.

I hate to say this but her interviews with the times and the daily really screams someone who has an unstable personality and was projecting her obsession with the forum onto admins and the rest of the users. I've never once idealized anyone on here nor do I feel compelled by anyone on here to use the forum when I do not feel like it. I've taken plenty of days or weeks off with zero worry or fear from anyone. I think that describes the majority of users here.

 

[it's_all_a_game]

I heard about SS from that NYT "The Daily" podcast feature, the 33-minute segment. Did y'all know you can actually email [email protected]? Maybe if lots of us expressed how damaging their segment was, they'd have to make a counter statement about it. I had never heard of this site but the stance taken by the Times was so appalling and disturbing to me that I joined and I've been reading threads all week. I also emailed them a full single spaced page about how gross I thought their public position was. Attached my statement if anyone's interested. But more than anything think it'd be cool if massive amounts of people emailed them too.

I'm gonna email 'em my story; doubt they'll bother to respond, but it wouldn't hurt to try

 

[Chinaski]

I'm gonna email 'em my story; doubt they'll bother to respond, but it wouldn't hurt to try

What do you think could be realistically achieved, for both yourself and this website, by doing this?

 

[YMN]

I don't think emailing NYT will do anything. They made their stance clear with their smear article and doxxing. Nothing anyone here says could change their mind that SS is a cult hell-bent on killing children and should be nuked from the internet.

 

[eryu]

I like how people with mental illness are "crazy", "unreliable", "can't be trusted to know up from down" when they're saying things you disagree with but when they say things that support your agenda they're automatically trustworthy sources (never mind what anyone else on the forum says and never mind that you could have determined for yourself that she was misrepresenting things with those 1000000+ posts you went through).

I bet NYT journos would not hesitate to highlight her diagnosis if she were someone who they needed to discredit. And I'm sure they would give zero fucks about perpetuating stigma for others with the same diagnosis.

 

[Pure]

View attachment 80948

your "strong woman" is posting questionable content that you might deem as "promoting/assisting suicide"

View attachment 80949

View attachment 80950

Lol

 

[it's_all_a_game]

What do you think could be realistically achieved, for both yourself and this website, by doing this?

Nothing really; like I said I doubt they'll respond, but I feel like explaining why I believe choosing to leave this Earth is justified.

 

[demuic]

Yes this was her sixth(!) account. She is quite obsessed with this forum. It's why I posted this here.

WOW. Wtf. And they try to say there's something wrong with us... This is just pathetic.

I hate to say this but her interviews with the times and the daily really screams someone who has an unstable personality and was projecting her obsession with the forum onto admins and the rest of the users. I've never once idealized anyone on here nor do I feel compelled by anyone on here to use the forum when I do not feel like it. I've taken plenty of days or weeks off with zero worry or fear from anyone. I think that describes the majority of users here.

That's the impression I'm getting as well. Pure projection. If someone feels like the forum is a "bad influence" on them, fine, whatever, but don't paint everyone else with the same brush, when literally so many of us have said it's the exact opposite. One wonders if that is even true anyway based on the fact that it seems she can't stop herself from coming back here.

I like how people with mental illness are "crazy", "unreliable", "can't be trusted to know up from down" when they're saying things you disagree with but when they say things that support your agenda they're automatically trustworthy sources (never mind what anyone else on the forum says and never mind that you could have determined for yourself that she was misrepresenting things with those 1000000+ posts you went through).

I bet NYT journos would not hesitate to highlight her diagnosis if she were someone who they needed to discredit. And I'm sure they would give zero fucks about perpetuating stigma for others with the same diagnosis.

Yes, it's quite convenient, isn't it....


This is why it's important to be careful who you talk to, trust, and believe on here. Just like anywhere else on the internet, people will lie or make up things for their own twisted sense of amusement, or for seemingly no reason at all. It's not the first time this has happened, and I'm sure with the way things are going, it will be far from the last...

 

[Sprite_Geist]

I like how people with mental illness are "crazy", "unreliable", "can't be trusted to know up from down" when they're saying things you disagree with but when they say things that support your agenda they're automatically trustworthy sources (never mind what anyone else on the forum says and never mind that you could have determined for yourself that she was misrepresenting things with those 1000000+ posts you went through).

I bet NYT journos would not hesitate to highlight her diagnosis if she were someone who they needed to discredit. And I'm sure they would give zero fucks about perpetuating stigma for others with the same diagnosis.

You have made an excellent point! We are just "insane" enough to allow others to invalidate our arguments and control us, but still sane enough that we are subject to demonization since we are viewed as solely responsible.

Society: "The suicidal should be sanctioned. They cannot make their own choices..."
Also society: "Suicidal people are selfish. They chose not to care about their loved ones!"

 

[RainAndSadness]

I don't know this person but I think this article provides some much needed nuance to the entire topic.

https://unherd.com/thepost/the-nyts-latest-hit-job-backfires/