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todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
Death due to ingestion of nicotine-containing solution: Case report and
review of the literature

"Nicotine acts on the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous
system, where it binds to acetylcholine receptors. In general, the
central nervous system is stimulated by small doses of nicotine but
depresses by large doses [25,26].

The estimated lethal dose of nicotine in adults ranges from 0.5
to 1.0 mg/kg of body weight, corresponding to a total dose of 30–
60 mg [27]. Toxic symptoms might be seen at doses as low as 2–
5 mg. However, individuals vary widely in their tolerance to the
toxic effects of nicotine [6].

Non-fatal cases of intentional or unintentional nicotine
intoxication have been reported in the literature [6,28–33]. In
such cases, nicotine stimulates autonomic ganglia and induces the
classical effects of cholinergic excess, such as muscle fasciculations
and muscarinic symptoms (nausea, vomiting, increased salivation,
dizziness, headache, and vision or hearing changes). Massive
nicotine ingestion frequently causes dangerous medical complica-
tions such as seizures, central nervous system changes, cardio-
vascular effects and respiratory failure [34–36]. Victims who are
not hospitalized immediately may face rapid progression to
hypotension and death. The most common mechanisms of death
from nicotine intoxication are respiratory failure due to peripheral
neuromuscular blockade and cardiovascular arrest
[5,7,16].

Though nicotine is one of the most toxic drugs of abuse, it rarely
leads to fatalities. Fatal poisoning from concentrated-nicotine
solution and pesticides have occurred in the past [8–17,37,38], and
nicotine has been reported to cause death in two cases [18,39].
However, only a few cases of fatal nicotine poisoning have been
reported during the last 20 years [8,16,17]."



Death related to nicotine replacement therapy: A case report

"High doses of nicotine inhibit the central nervous system,
inducing hypotension and bradycardia followed by coma and
respiratory muscle paralysis, leading to death by asphyxia.
The first
evidences of police investigation and autopsy findings suggested
nicotine poisoning. Indeed, the autopsy revealed signs of asphyxia
syndrome (congestion of the face, conjunctival injection, reddish
mucus in the nose and mouth, cyanosis of the lips, multi-organ
congestion and considerable pulmonary oedema)."


Found that here https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,4&q=fatal+nicotine+poisoning+&btnG=
Almost any article that is behind a paywall can be read on Sci Hub.


There were more relevant articles but I am too lazy, might add them later. I hope some of you will keep looking.

This really doesn't sound that bad, you just have to hit a high dose and you're done within minutes. 100-200mg+ orally and/or with patches. I'll keep searching for first hand experiences of an overdose or at least a few second hand ones of the early symptoms. Sounds like vomiting and twitches are guaranteed right before you drop out. But within a couple minutes, you are on to severe respiratory depression, low pulse, and heart issues. To me it sounds halfway unpleasant but not really painful, quickly leading to unconsciousness fatal complications.

Please dont shit up the thread, just post more studies, case reports or scientific anecdotes. Its very different in comparison to just smoking too many cigarettes, a ganglion block means your body stops telling your lungs to breathe among other important things.
 
I

ifeelsofragile

Member
Jan 1, 2023
10
You used to be able to order 500mg nicotine solution from vapeshops
 
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todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
Yea I remember ordering 50mg/ml stuff but even at a normal concentration of 10mgl/ml you would only need to buy and drink a few ounces. I think the higher concentration stuff is still available at some vendors but its not even worth looking for it.
 
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I

ifeelsofragile

Member
Jan 1, 2023
10
Taste is super awful and burns your throat. Would it be easier to use skin contact? Nicotine goes through skin
 
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todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
"no pulse within 1-2 minutes of ingestion"

This is somewhat redundant with the original post, but I thinks clarifies the dynamics of a very large dose, how the low level overdose symptoms would mostly disappear once you go into respiratory depression and other issues.

"Nicotine acts by direct stimulation of the nicotinic
subset of central and peripheral acetylcholine receptors
(Figure 1). Nicotine poisoning may produce myriad
Nicotine 135 symptoms (Table 1). A patient who is mildly to moder-
ately toxic may present with the classical findings of
cholinergic excess, such as muscle fasciculations and
muscarinic symptoms (pupil constriction, salivation, tearing up,
urination, defecation, sweating, vomiting, coughing and increased pulmonary secretions).
These oc-
cur due to parasympathetic ganglionic stimulation at
nicotinic receptor sites. In such cases, the presentation
may be identical to that of an organophosphate expo-
sure, and atropine may be beneficial (6).

At larger doses, the initial stimulatory effect on most
end organs is rapidly followed by prolonged ganglionic
and neuromuscular blockade resulting from persistent
membrane depolarization. With ganglionic blockade,
muscarinic findings are no longer produced since nico-
tine does not stimulate effector cell muscarinic receptors
directly
(12). Therefore, atropine would not be of
benefit in such circumstances. This is in contradistinc-
tion to serious organophosphate poisonings, where mus-
carinic effects continue to be produced by direct acetyl-
choline stimulation. Muscarinic effecters are not subject
to depolarization blockade (12). Atropine (along with
2-PAM) is the treatment of choice in these cases.
Serious nicotine ingestions frequently result in rapid
progression to hypotension and death
. The most com-
mon mechanisms of death are respiratory arrest pro-
duced by peripheral neummuscular blockade, and cardiovascular
collapse (2,11,12). In our case death was secondary to
nicotine-induced cardiopulmonary arrest and hypoxic
brain damage."
 
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todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
Back to thinking about this, might make sense to combine with diphenhydramine as mentioned here


to avoid some side effects and just have respiratory failure, paralysis, if i understand correctly. Still researching..
 
John Ryder

John Ryder

"You're a smart kid...you'll figure it out."
Jul 7, 2023
334
No thanks, right the first time.
In that case cite something that rebukes literally every piece of scientific literature re: nicotine lethality I've ever encountered, which suggests it is lethal in sufficient quantity. Including that in the first post of the thread. The onus is kind of on you here.
(I'm very open minded btw. It's just a pretty bold claim to make without backup in that it contradicts everything I've seen that's out there)
 
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busybee

busybee

Experienced
Jul 5, 2023
208
As a teen, before vaping was a thing, I did concider this as a ctb method, achieved via eating cigaretts, but then I did the math and was horrified of the amount of them I would have had to consume
 
CW36

CW36

➕〰️➰
Jul 23, 2023
846
In that case cite something that rebukes literally every piece of scientific literature re: nicotine lethality I've ever encountered, which suggests it is lethal in sufficient quantity. Including that in the first post of the thread. The onus is kind of on you here.
(I'm very open minded btw. It's just a pretty bold claim to make without backup in that it contradicts everything I've seen that's out there)
Anything is potentially lethal in dangerous quantities, even water. The point is some are achievable and some are not. There's a reason this idea is not doing the rounds.
 
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John Ryder

John Ryder

"You're a smart kid...you'll figure it out."
Jul 7, 2023
334
Anything is potentially lethal in dangerous quantities, even water. The point is some are achievable and some are not. There's a reason this idea is not doing the rounds.
Come on man. The "even water" cop out? You have studies suggesting lethality at < 100 *mg* and you're going to lump this in with h2o and table sugar? Contrast with the requisite grams of many of the most touted methods here. Just saying "nicotine isn't at all lethal by itself" clearly implies it's relatively benign, unreliable, requires some physically absurd/impractical dosage etc. Even accessibility isn't a barrier - concentrated nicotine solution is readily available in many territories. I have no idea what kind of experience it would make for, and it wouldn't be even my fifth choice. But purely as a killing agent the data indicates clear potential. Sounds very achievable.
...all that being said, sorry for "shitting up" the thread as OP talked about. My part in this little pillow fight is done.
 
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dialogos

dialogos

Experienced
Jul 5, 2023
266
When I was into vaping more than a decade ago, I tried to save cash and made my own nicotine extract to mix with my ejuice. No one told me that our skin can absorb nicotine so quickly. I took a big can of pipe tobacco, poured some water in it and put on the stove to warm it up but not boil to a syrupy mess. When I dipped my hands to squeeze the tobacco shreds to extract more liquid, in just a minute I felt woozy, almost blacked out. I lay down on the floor for six hours. I was disoriented, I forced myself to breath coz it felt like I was forgetting how. Thanks for reminding me.
 
thrashisland

thrashisland

Member
Jul 21, 2023
29
this is such an interesting method lol who knew i could ctb by my addiction
 
todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
To be clear it still needs more research, I have questions related to bioavailability, such as with freebase nic vs the nic salts in e cig juices. If the PG and VG carriers complicate anything.

The biological mechanism is comparable to Poison Hemlock, its not far fetched at all.
 
brainwormz

brainwormz

Based cringelord
Jul 18, 2023
77
I know someone who tried nic method. Didn't work. As someone who's had loada of salt nic in it's mouth and on it skin, it doesn't seem like a fun way to go. Kinda burns when swallowed at low concentration.
 
dialogos

dialogos

Experienced
Jul 5, 2023
266
skin can absorb nicotine. ive experienced this way back. put pipe tobacco shreds in mildly hot water. it was like 400 grams. was squeezing it with my bare hands for just a minute. didnt know this was dangerous. i was in and out for 6 hours. wasnt suicidal back then though
 
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todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
After taking several grams, this guy was comatose in under ten minutes (ambulance was there in four) https://www.ntvg.nl/artikelen/fatale-intoxicatie-met-nicotine-voor-e-sigaret

this loser threw up too fast. Apparently it does burn the throat/stomach https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4256637/

"Historically the lethal dose of nicotine in adults has been cited as ~ 60 mg. However, a recent review of the literature revealed poor documentation and questionable anecdotal evidence surrounding the broad acceptance of this value. Mayer concludes that at least 500 mg of orally ingested nicotine is required to kill an adult. With an oral bioavailability range of 20–45%, perhaps 100–225 mg of dermally absorbed nicotine could be lethal. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6322548/

This king took 7-10 grams in 4-6 oz of vape concentrate https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-014-1086-x

I strongly suspect applying strong vape juice to the skin is the easiest way, seems to cause vomiting for multiple reasons. Vape juice comes as freebase and salt forms, not sure which absorbs better, would guess the salt, which is also half as potent per mg of nic. Combined oral/dermal would probably be smartest but i have to read that dermal study closely to be sure.
 
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T

Tsunami

Student
Nov 3, 2023
100
I wanted to open a 3rd thread on nicotine OD after my first 2 about strangulation and caffeine OD but OP has already posted most of the articles I wanted to post.

OP have you abandoned this idea? In Europe, nicotine boosters contain 20mg/L in 10mL bottles, or 200mg per bottle. 5 bottles for 1g of nicotine seems to be a megadose. The rare cases that can be found online received prompt medical help but ended up in critical condition anyway or died if they were alone.

I think there are many more cases but they are not revealed to avoid waves of attempts with this method. The e-cigarette business is too important.

I wonder if mixing 50 to 100 mL of e-liquid in a smoothie or fruit juice is possible... this method really appeals to me
 
todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
@Tsunami

Nic is still on my list, although I'm leaning more toward medications that are relatively available. Also not especially suicidal and the holiday are terrible timing for leaving.

I like Nic because its fast and effective, only drawbacks (as i recall) are that its rather hard on the throat/stomach and the initial symptoms before the second phase starts. Im currently focused on things that might have a minimal side effect profile, not even headache or moderate nausea. Im also concerned lately with symptoms that might not appear in case reports.

Please feel free to add any further studies and insights to the thread. I think more could be derived from studying things that share its mode of action, like hemlock and certain pesticides.

Also you might check out my magnesium thread. I still have questions but I haven't discounted it. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/hypermagnesemia-magnesium-overdose.118331/
 
O

oneeyed

Specialist
Oct 11, 2022
323
I don't suppose anyone has seen/heard of a solid form of pure nicotine that you can just put in capsules? The whole burning thing sounds awful and I feel like puking thinking about drinking bubblegum vape juice lol.
 
T

Tsunami

Student
Nov 3, 2023
100

This guy did it well .. There is one BBC reporter too who commited with e-liquid


This paper have some interesting infos
I like Nic because its fast and effective, only drawbacks (as i recall) are that its rather hard on the throat/stomach and the initial symptoms before the second phase starts. Im currently focused on things that might have a minimal side effect profile, not even headache or moderate nausea.

I have the same impression about nicotine OD as caffeine OD, that it is possible to improve these methods and make them more pleasant and faster.
This is why, for example, I was thinking of mixing e-liquid with smoothie to alleviate the burning sensation rather than ingesting the nicotine directly as some have had to do by acting on impulsiveness.

I don't suppose anyone has seen/heard of a solid form of pure nicotine that you can just put in capsules? The whole burning thing sounds awful and I feel like puking thinking about drinking bubblegum vape juice lol.

humm no I don't think so... I've already thought about capsules and inserting tetrahydrozoline (visine) powder inside but the sites which offer this kind of powder are Chinese sites which are a bit strange...
 
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T

Tsunami

Student
Nov 3, 2023
100
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15563650.2015.1090579

3000mg.. there must be a way to ingest such large doses. And even if part of this dose is vomited I believe that it is a large enough quantity that it would be impossible to survive..


other case , not a lot infos

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/brb3.1744

600mg , then coma ..
 
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todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
@Tsunami topical might be part of the equation, maybe a diy patch of sorts. DMSO might enhance that, the rate is important. There are several case reports where the person was covered in patches.

The Pharmacological Actions of Nicotine on the Gastrointestinal Tract

At a glance nicotine causes valve to weaken, allowing acid reflux, while also increasing stomach acid production. There might be other mechanisms.
 
T

Tsunami

Student
Nov 3, 2023
100
@Tsunami topical might be part of the equation, maybe a diy patch of sorts. DMSO might enhance that, the rate is important. There are several case reports where the person was covered in patches.

The Pharmacological Actions of Nicotine on the Gastrointestinal Tract

At a glance nicotine causes valve to weaken, allowing acid reflux, while also increasing stomach acid production. There might be other mechanisms.
Don't the patches work slowly? I would like to reach the coma phase as quickly as possible obviously..
In Europe it seems complicated to find bottles with a concentration greater than 20mg/mL, it would take 10 bottles in 10mL format to reach 2g and I don't know if this is possible... the cases where large doses were ingested seem to come from bottles type 100mg/mL which considerably reduces the quantity to be ingested. Ah I have so many questions about caffeine and nicotine OD I'm sure there's a fu***ng way with these methods I want to find the solution
 
todienomore

todienomore

Arcanist
Apr 7, 2023
400
@Tsunami

At a glance 100ml of propylene glycol / vegetable glycerin carriers could cause nausea. They wont be absorbed quickly enough to cause more potential issues. Maybe you could test them separately for sensitivity.

Fatal topical exposure anecdote

Extracting nicotine from the solution might be possible but not easy.
 
T

Tsunami

Student
Nov 3, 2023
100


Do you mean that standard 10mL bottles with 20mg/mL of nicotine and a rate of for example 70GP/30GV are not possible at OD even with 100mL?

 

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