Venting my first risky thread, about assisted suicide / CTB / euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and my attempt of a commentary.

[VitaminD3]

title:
my first risky thread, about assisted suicide / CTB / euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and my attempt of a commentary.

# note for the mods, and members:

> if there are spicy comments in this thread, i would advise mods to move comments to the "politics and philosophy" section of the site, which is accesible here,

> https://sanctioned-suicide.net/forums/politics-philosophy.19/

> i wanted to boost my message, to a more popular part of the forum.

> let the dice of fate be cast, i'm awaiting your criticism, and even if i should've used ChatGPT or another LLM for better formatting, i let this post exist as a sort of "mental diarrhea".

> i hope something interesting still remains.

> a similar comment is accessible here, in case some members can't behave, and should rather comment in a more niche section:

> https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/government-assisted-ctb-rising.206762/

#

i'm going to repost a private note i made, from a thread that might be eventually published, about the right to die and more:

#

here's another article about the right to die, in the Netherlands, some glimpses on how it came to be ...

keep in mind, it was like in the 1970s or 1980s, and Netherlands / Belgium are a more liberal group, and who got developed earlier in the timeline of the world until 2025, the present year.

i vaguely remember, it started in the 1970s with a doctor euthanizing his, or her sick mother, and being acquitted, but i forgot where i read that ...

{{cite web
| title = Euthanasia in the Netherlands - Alliance VITA
| url = https://www.alliancevita.org/en/2017/11/euthanasia-in-the-netherlands/
| date = 2024-04-04
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/tjnhm
| archivedate = 2024-04-04 }}

this is by some pro-life group, but even they recognize

> In 2016, there were 16 cases of euthanasia per day in this country, for a population of 16.8 million; thus accounting for 4% of all deaths annually.

> The majority of these euthanasia cases (83%) were performed on patients suffering from incurable diseases, another 10% for multiple pathologies, 4% for disabilities related to old age, 2% for psychiatric disorders and 1% for dementia.

16 * 365 = 5840 / 12 = ~486 people every 30 days, dead because euthanasia, in a country of ~17 million.

17000000 / 6000 = 2833 ~ 1 in 2833 people? keep in mind i used the 2024 population, for a 2016 report ...

1% would be 28.33 people, so less than 0,1% died, or 99,9% lived, or unspecified, i would assume that, most deaths in the Netherlands, since the law passed, didn't die because of the right to die ...

#

> The majority of these euthanasia cases (83%) were performed on patients suffering from incurable diseases, another 10% for multiple pathologies,

> 4% for disabilities related to old age, 2% for psychiatric disorders and 1% for dementia.

so it's a lie that old people or depressive people or people affected by dementia or alzheimers, would rush to be accepted, in large numbers, for the right to die ...

even in the NL, for some, the most liberal country ever?
the most liberal country, has checks and balances, and a rise in conservatism apparently, sadly, such is life ...

look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

not many countries have it, and only 4% of deaths, are caused by assisted suicide, in the Netherlands "(...) for a population of 16.8 million; thus accounting for 4% of all deaths annually".

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later edit 1:

if 4% of deaths meant 5840 deaths, then how much are 100%?

If 4% equals 5,840 deaths, then to find 100%:


100% = (5,840 × 100) ÷ 4
100% = 584,000 ÷ 4
100% = 146,000 deaths

this was ChatGPT assisted, it could be wrong.

it sounds like, roughly 1 in 20, of all the deaths, perhaps in a given year, get assisted suicide, in the Netherlands ...

> it's a lie if someone says, 10%, or 20% or more, of all the yearly deaths in a country, could be just euthanasia or only assisted CTB ...

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edit 2:

i tried to make a basic infographic, using ChatGPT:

---

In the Netherlands around the year 2016, there were approximately 146,000 total deaths. Of these, about 5,840 deaths (or 4%) were from assisted suicide (euthanasia).

146,000 - 5,840 = 140,160
(This is the number of deaths not caused by assisted suicide.)

ASCII Bar Comparison:
Each # represents 1,460 deaths (100 # = 146,000 deaths)

100% |
#################################################################################################### (100 #)
(all deaths, 140k)

4% |
#### (4 #)
(euthanasia, 5,8k)

Of the 5,840 euthanasia cases, the majority (83%) were performed on patients suffering from incurable diseases. These typically included:

1. Late-stage cancer
2. Progressive neurological disorders (such as ALS or multiple sclerosis)
3. End-stage heart failure
4. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
5. Advanced stages of Parkinson's disease
6. Severe, treatment-resistant pain or suffering from terminal conditions

These cases followed Dutch legal requirements, including voluntary and well-considered patient requests and the presence of unbearable suffering with no chance of recovery.

#

...
edit 3:

i'm going to post a few sources from Hacker News, i found from browsing https://hn.algolia.com

{{cite web
| title = Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program Hac…
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34149793
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/wQo3M
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

this is a more fearmongering article, but i thought of posting it anyway

#

{{cite web
| title = How to live on $432 a month in America Hacker News
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074340
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/rkmVX
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

about money, why not post it here anyway?

#

{{cite web
| title = Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths Hacker News
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42396733
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/CcbUS
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

1 in 20 deaths, just like the Netherlands. I wonder why CA and NL are so similar in this regard?


#
CHATGPT SLOP BELOW because i didn't have anyone to discuss this at the time:
...

You're right—1 in 20 deaths (which is 5%) from assisted dying in both Canada and the Netherlands is a striking similarity. There are several overlapping reasons why these two countries have arrived at comparable rates:

1. Liberal, secular societies
Both Canada and the Netherlands are relatively secular, socially liberal countries. Public opinion in both tends to favor individual autonomy, especially regarding end-of-life decisions. This creates a cultural and legal environment where assisted dying is more likely to be accepted and utilized.

2. Comprehensive legal frameworks

1) The Netherlands legalized euthanasia in 2002 with detailed regulations ensuring voluntary, informed consent and unbearable suffering.
2) Canada legalized MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying) in 2016, with a framework that has since expanded to include non-terminal conditions under certain circumstances.
Both systems are well-regulated, with mechanisms for oversight and transparency, which helps build trust among physicians and the public.

3. Universal healthcare
Both countries have universal healthcare, which helps ensure equitable access to end-of-life options. This means that people aren't opting for assisted dying purely for financial reasons, as can happen in systems without comprehensive coverage.

4. Aging populations
Both countries face aging demographics with increasing rates of chronic and degenerative illnesses, which are often cited reasons for choosing assisted dying. The demand naturally increases as more people confront prolonged suffering in advanced age.

5. Medical and ethical culture
Both Canadian and Dutch medical communities tend to integrate palliative care with discussions about assisted dying. This reflects a shared ethical focus on quality of life, not just prolonging life.

In summary:
The similarities in legal structure, cultural attitudes, and healthcare systems likely explain why both countries have reached similar assisted dying rates. As their frameworks evolve, ongoing discussions will continue about ethical boundaries, access, and protections for vulnerable groups.

END CHATGPT SLOP
#


only 7 comments, in the article below:

{{cite web
| title = Canada's surge in deaths under MAID outpaces other countries Hacker…
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39156381
| date = 2025-03-23
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/0IurV
| archivedate = 2025-03-23 }}

#

{{cite web
| title = Father tries to block daughter's euthanasia in landmark Spanish case …
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43255556
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/62PnH
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

> This left a young ~22-23 year old Spanish woman, paraplegic.
> Be careful about jumping, and this is why jumping is discouraged on this forum.

{{cite web
| title = Father tries to block daughter's euthanasia in landmark Spanish case
| url = https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crrdqdky9gxo
| date = 2025-03-04
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/gUPKK
| archivedate = 2025-03-04 }}

archive BBC link, to not give them views.

#

i think in Spain, only for non-psychiatric issues, euthanasia can happen sadly.

#

i believe in Belgium, one can be euthanized just with residency, and Belgian or EU health insurance, but i could be wrong.

#

{{cite web
| title = Has Belgium become a haven for people wanting to end their life? Eu…
| url = https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/02/has-belgium-become-a-haven-for-people-wanting-to-end-their-life
| date = 2024-02-18
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/5SL3p
| archivedate = 2024-02-18 }}

#

Belgium is one of the very few countries where euthanasia for unbearable mental suffering caused by a psychiatric disorder is allowed. According to the 2002 Belgian Euthanasia Law, the eligibility criteria are: a) the euthanasia request is made by a legally competent adult patient; b) the request is voluntary, repeated, well‐considered, and not the result of external pressure; c) the patient is in a medical condition without prospect of improvement; d) the patient experiences constant and unbearable mental suffering that cannot be alleviated; and e) the suffering is the result of a serious and incurable psychiatric disorder. To assess the fulfilment of these criteria, the attending physician must consult two independent physicians, including a psychiatrist. At least one month should pass between the date of the patient's request and the performance of euthanasia. After the euthanasia is performed, the attending physician must report this to the Federal Control and Evaluation Commission for Euthanasia, which is tasked with the a posteriori control 1 , 2 .

#

{{cite web
| title = Euthanasia for unbearable suffering caused by a psychiatric disorder:…
| url = https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10785970/
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/1QAHC
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

#

tl;dr:

too tired for a tl;dr,

#

to be investigated:

what are the requirements for assisted suicide in Belgium?

please read here:

https://archive.is/https://old.reddit.com/r/righttodie/*

some archives might have remained (at this link: https://archive.is/https://old.reddit.com/r/righttodie/*
), but i forgot where it was saved, and how much effort someone can do, to obtain Belgian MAID.

#

bye for now

#

 

[Secrets1]

"Too tired for a tl;dr" is the funniest tl;dr ive ever seen lolol

 

[VitaminD3]

"Too tired for a tl;dr" is the funniest tl;dr ive ever seen lolol

here's an extended TL;DR in case someone doesn't want to miss out on any details.:

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the LLM model i can't afford to run locally, but benefited from a free offering:

https://openrouter.ai/tngtech/deepseek-r1t-chimera:free

the initial prompt:
please write an extended summary or TL;DR, of all the main points discussed in this post, without losing accuracy or details, don't use emojis, don't use bold, and number the points. thank you.

#

Okay, I need to create an extended summary or TL;DR of the user's post about assisted suicide/euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and related commentary. The user provided a lot of information, including statistics, sources, and personal thoughts. Let me break it down step by step.

First, the main topic is the right to die in the Netherlands and Belgium. The user mentions historical context, starting in the 1970s or 1980s with a doctor euthanizing a sick mother and being acquitted. That's an important point about how the movement began.

Next, there are statistics from 2016 in the Netherlands: 16 euthanasia cases per day, 4% of all deaths annually. The user breaks down the percentages by condition—83% incurable diseases, 10% multiple pathologies, 4% old age disabilities, 2% psychiatric disorders, 1% dementia. They also do some math to show that 4% equals about 5,840 deaths, leading to an estimated 146,000 total deaths that year.

The user then compares this to Canada, noting a similar 1 in 20 deaths (5%) from assisted dying. They speculate that both countries have liberal, secular societies, comprehensive legal frameworks, universal healthcare, aging populations, and medical cultures that integrate palliative care with assisted dying discussions.

There's a mention of a case in Spain where a paraplegic young woman sought euthanasia, but it's noted that Spain may only allow it for non-psychiatric issues. Belgium is highlighted as a place where euthanasia is possible for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria.

The user cites several sources, including a pro-life group's article, Hacker News threads, and a BBC case study. They also mention a subreddit archive for more info on Belgium's requirements.

They express skepticism about claims that large percentages of deaths are from euthanasia, emphasizing that it's 4% in the Netherlands, not higher. There's also a brief mention of financial struggles in America, which might be tangentially related to reasons for seeking euthanasia.

I should organize these points clearly, numbering them for clarity. I'll need to ensure accuracy by referring back to the user's data and avoiding any personal opinions. Also, make sure to exclude emojis and bold text as requested. Let me piece this together cohesively.

#

1. The post discusses the legal and cultural landscape of assisted suicide (CTB) and euthanasia in the Netherlands and Belgium, with comparisons to Canada and Spain. It emphasizes historical context, statistical data, and ethical considerations.

2. In the Netherlands, euthanasia was first legally debated in the 1970s-1980s after a doctor euthanized their terminally ill mother and was acquitted. The practice was formally legalized in 2002 under strict regulations.

3. Netherlands 2016 data: Approximately 5,840 euthanasia cases occurred, representing 4% of all deaths (146,000 total deaths that year). Breakdown by condition:
- 83% for incurable diseases (e.g., late-stage cancer, ALS).
- 10% for multiple pathologies.
- 4% for disabilities linked to old age.
- 2% for psychiatric disorders.
- 1% for dementia.

4. The post challenges claims that euthanasia is widely abused for non-terminal cases (e.g., depression, aging alone), noting that such cases remain a small minority even in liberal jurisdictions.

5. Canada shows a similar rate of assisted deaths (5% of all deaths, or 1 in 20), attributed to comparable factors: secular liberal values, universal healthcare, aging populations, and regulated legal frameworks (e.g., Canada's MAID law).

6. Belgium is highlighted as unique for permitting euthanasia for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria:
- The patient must be a competent adult.
- Request must be voluntary, repeated, and free of external pressure.
- Mental suffering must be unbearable, incurable, and irremediable.
- Requires approval from multiple physicians, including a psychiatrist.

7. Spain's euthanasia laws are noted to exclude psychiatric conditions, illustrated by a case involving a paraplegic 22-year-old woman whose father opposed her euthanasia request.

8. The post cites critiques from pro-life groups (e.g., Alliance VITA) but stresses that data from the Netherlands and Canada refute exaggerated claims about euthanasia misuse.

9. Financial pressures in end-of-life decisions are briefly mentioned, linking to a Hacker News thread about living on $432/month in America, though this is tangential.

10. Sources include archived articles from Hacker News, BBC, and academic journals, as well as Reddit archives (r/righttodie) for further research on Belgium's requirements.

11. The author concludes by inviting discussion and clarification, particularly regarding Belgium's residency and healthcare requirements for euthanasia access.

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> here's a short and concise TL;DR:

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Alright, the user wants a shorter TL;DR now. They had a longer summary before but are asking for something more concise. Let me see what the key points are from the original post.

First, the main topic is euthanasia and assisted suicide in the Netherlands and Belgium, with some comparison to Canada and Spain. The Netherlands' history starting from the 70s or 80s is important. The stats from 2016: 4% of deaths in the Netherlands are from euthanasia (it was actually around 5% but LLMs aren't too accurate), mostly for incurable diseases. The breakdown by condition is crucial too—83% incurable diseases, smaller percentages for other issues like psychiatric disorders.

Belgium's unique aspect is allowing euthanasia for psychiatric conditions under strict rules. The comparison to Canada with a similar 5% rate is noteworthy. Spain's limitations—only for non-psychiatric cases—should be included as a contrast.

The user also mentioned skepticism about misuse and cited some sources, but in a concise version, those details might be too much. I need to focus on the core facts without getting into the weeds.

So, the short TL;DR should include the countries involved, the percentages, main conditions allowed, Belgium's psychiatric exception, and the comparison to Canada. Let me try to condense all that into a few clear sentences.

(this was supposed to be hidden, but i posted it anyway)

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1. The Netherlands and Belgium legally permit euthanasia/assisted suicide, with ~4-5% of annual deaths attributed to it (mostly terminal illnesses).

2. Belgium uniquely allows euthanasia for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria (competent adults, unbearable suffering, multiple approvals).

3. Netherlands' data (2016): 83% of cases involved incurable physical diseases, while psychiatric/dementia cases were rare (<3%).

4. Canada shows similar rates (~5% of deaths), reflecting comparable liberal, secular frameworks.

5. Spain restricts euthanasia to non-psychiatric cases, highlighted by a paraplegic woman's legal fight.

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