Bunnymmm

Bunnymmm

Member
Aug 29, 2022
31
I thought reading this article is interesting because of bad girls trending in my country(USA).

I wanted to get some opinions as well from women.

 
  • Like
  • Yay!
Reactions: H.O.Xan and NumbItAll
NumbItAll

NumbItAll

expendable
May 20, 2018
1,104
I'm just one man but I like nice, wholesome, high empathy women and not any of the weird toxic stuff outlined here. I like stability and want to feel safe. There are many claims in this article but not really any proof or references to back it up. I'm sure some guys like the chase or whatever but it's not necessarily healthy. I haven't had much dating success so take it for what it's worth. I don't really like or understand gender roles in general so I might not be the norm.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: olearius, theslasher, AvoidingMyself and 4 others
FormerlyFe(IV)

FormerlyFe(IV)

Snapped.
Jun 27, 2023
419
I can agree and disagree with some of their bullet points, but I'm not fully sure of the connotations of being a "bad girl" to say whether I prefer them or not.

Alternative girls on the other hand, yes. I'd much rather have a fun and interesting partner than a yes-woman.
Prudishness isn't attractive, I'd rather deal with someone open and confident about their sexuality.
But that doesn't justify being an asshole and justifying toxic jealousy or anger issues or so.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: Bunnymmm, winamp and sulli
W

winamp

Enlightened
May 20, 2023
1,357
when I think about "alternative" or "bad girls"

I can only think of men liking them just for sexual or fantasy reasons (or projecting those stereotypes onto them) or to take advantage of them (and is one of the reasons as to why I do not associate with or participate in the goth subculture or any other alternative subcultures anymore or label myself as such)

(I remember some of my online alt and goth female friends discussing how it's a bit of a problem especially now)

or they assume they are into various kinks and fetishes due to how they dress (fetish goths are a different subculture and it's a fashion thing rather than a sex thing latex, leather, harnesses, etc.)
or because of being a delinquent or having a bad upbringing or an absent parent

reminds me of how Alex thought of and viewed Sabrina in the show Downtown 1999 also Of Herbs and Alters has a few videos discussing stuff like this
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bunnymmm
SexyIncél

SexyIncél

🍭my lollipop brings the feminists to my candyshop
Aug 16, 2022
1,482
Overall considerations:
  • I think this article has pluses & minuses. Good springboard for thinking!

  • I haven't studied male desire much, so my views could be pretty fallible. I'm learning from this

  • Wasn't written by a good coach. Just mentions properties you're somehow supposed to fulfill. Should offer guidance on how to walk the path, with case studies & nuances... Those who'll benefit from this article are the "naturally talented" ones who already know how to make it work, and will just skim it for inspiration. I suspect most readers may come away even worse for reading it!

  • Looks like Mary Sue sophistry. Like those coaches who teach "confidence" — without expertise to back up that confidence. Paper-thin. Pure meta operations: causing interest through superficially signaling "badness", instead of being rebellious & mindblowingly interesting. Like buying factory-ripped jeans. The pickup artist community is similarly empty, but at least they offer case studies & hard-won lessons that came from experimenting with random weird shit to hack girls' minds

  • What does bad vs good girl mean? Disobedient vs obedient? Dating vs marriage modes? Slut vs chaste? PC vs NPC? Sadist vs masochist? Individual vs slave? Extrovert vs introvert? Psychopath vs moral? Directly acting vs meta building a relationship structure? Similar to bad boy vs nice guy?

  • A compelling antihero needs a Code. Just something you adhere to

  • Which guys are we targeting? Are we segmenting guys into low-quality vs high-quality buckets, as the manosphere does?

  • Beware the "good girl", like the simping "nice guy". There's high-quality & low-quality "good girls". Maybe the good girl is actually more abusive & unpleasant than she thinks? Maybe bad girls also lose guys to the good girl — but complain less about it? Maybe the good girl believes too much in "be yourself" while the bad girl puts on a pleasant mask in sustainable bursts? Maybe most guys are just low-quality enough to lick tartar sauce off the floor, then kiss you?

  • Is being "bad" partly about adopting some conventionally masculine traits? Manosphere theorists claim that can be very attractive, atop a bedrock of femininity. If masculinity's defined as having a spine & balls (metaphoricaly speaking), willingness to be a bad girl may be a prerequisite for having male traits


Here's my thoughts about the analysis under each point... sometimes the point's title (like "8. Bad girls make men feel deeply") diverges from the analysis under it. I'm usually replying to that analysis, rather than the title
  1. Men are hunters
    • The manosphere models women similarly: distinction between dating vs marriage modes
    • Building "a relationship" is actually hard. It's the personal equivalent of finding a cofounder & building a company together; requires many skills. Not easy when many struggle to provide only for themselves!

  2. Bad girls appear sexier
    • Similar to manosphere lore on the attractveness of dark triad types
    • I have noticed that psychopaths tend to be oddly attractive
    • Maybe there's just less stress when you're banging a disposable lover

  3. Her dress sense exudes confidence
    • Yes, but it doesn't have to be "sexy". Eye-catchingly tasteful also spins the imagination. Fashion is a form of art, and art can cause imaginative interest

  4. Men find the kiss 'em leave 'em attitude exciting
    • Often the fun's merely in the mutual recognition itself. Most people exhaust conversation topics & fun ideas; they just replay the same schtick for new people. So it can be better to go out on top & leave 'em wanting more, than just wither away. Or stuck trying to invent novelty

    • Sounds like renting vs buying. Guys often feel they must allocate significant time/attention to girls. This strategy avoids requiring it, at least long-term

    • Nice justification for breaking someone's heart, pretending they like it. "Girls find the kiss 'em leave 'em attitude exciting". Fun!

    • Aristotle analyzed relationships. The short-lived ones were based on pleasure & utility. The enduring ones were based on compatible virtues
      • Pleasure: it's based on the pleasure/enjoyment of spending time together. Typically temporary, as pleasures get satisfied & diminish; interests change. He associated this with younger people, for whatever reason

      • Utility: being mutually useful for accomplishing practical goals/advantages. Often temporary, as mutual benefit wanes. He associated this with older people

      • Compatible virtues: such relationships are both pleasurable and useful. Deep genuine concern. Rare, because few people take the time to build intellectual & moral virtues. And since we're talking about erotic love, the need for physical attraction reduces the candidate pool further. Enduring, since people's character changes slowly

  5. Most men think the thrill is worth the risk
    • Hmm, many men have a strong white knight aspect. And get obsessed with what's difficult. But "unreachable, stoic, cold, and unfeeling" sounds like an odd way to elicit it... maybe better description is needed? Maybe I misunderstand, but these macho attributes sound more like what impresses other women. Female power fantasy. Caricature of masculinity

  6. Bad girls usually give good sex
    • WTF does "good sex" mean? I truly hate this vagueness & analyzed what exactly it means

    • tbh I'd like some evidence that bad girls are "better" than good girls. I mean, you'd kind of think they should — if their whole value is in being the equivalent of a quickie music video — but maybe we'd be surprised. Some of those good girls can be impressively perverted introverts

    • Such talk about "wild beasts" & "crazy sex" is interesting. Suggests mindlessness. Men often have the role of reducing complexity. Because anything you do in this universe — including sex — is pretty complex. (All sorts of things can happen, like someone farting.) So I guess this is women trying to help men by getting proactively mindless? Sounds like it could go wrong though; a better explanation could help

    • I suppose on average, experienced & hornier women will be more proactive at fulfilling men's sexual desires than those who aren't

  7. Bad girls thrive on adventure
    • Adventurous vs non-adventurous is its own topic. Some think travelling is adventurous. But it typically poses no interesting risk nor cleverness; it's safe instagram "adventure". Minor things that people try to spin as heroic (generating stories), so they have something to briefly impress people

  8. Bad girls make men feel deeply
    • The explanation seems unclear, like the author hurried to fill in some text to finish writing this content
    • To the extent that a girl has interesting thoughts & desires, derived from living in the moment instead of planning for the future, yes it could unlock a lot of imagination in their partner

  9. Men find good girls boring
    • Apparently, we can't feel recognized by those who we fully subordinate/enslave
    • Men often do have erotic desires for different girls

  10. Men don't like simple women
    • I suppose people like a mix of complexity & sanity. And they gravitate towards what they'd like to be

  11. Bad girls are sometimes 'easy'
    • Makes sense, though I think such girls often try to get long-term monogamy with certain guys, and just end up being dysfunctional af

  12. Men are thrilled by the idea of fixing a woman
    • Yes, the manosphere holds that men like to alter lives. (Don't have the cite offhand)

  13. Most men are commitment-phobic
    • The explanations (in the linked article) miss a common manosphere observation: girls trade sex for a guy's time & attention. Time & attention which could go elsewhere. Guys may just find it too expensive
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sserafim, H.O.Xan and Bunnymmm
theslasher

theslasher

psychonaut
Jun 12, 2023
184
when I think about "alternative" or "bad girls"

I can only think of men liking them just for sexual or fantasy reasons
As a guy, when I was reading this article I was having pretty similar thoughts. Men usually view these types of girls sexually, as opposed to men viewing women who dress/act more conservatively as someone they'd potentially marry. At least that's for the majority of normal men, but not all.

It's a bit of a generalization because at the end of the day, some men out there will sexualize anyone regardless of the way they dress/act. And on the other hand, not ALL men who are attracted to girls with this style only view them sexually. In fact some men might just appreciate that style, but not date ANYONE who dresses like that and mainly will date them based on who they are as a person. And for some maybe it's a mix.

I'd say that I don't have highly specific visual preferences for a woman (and I say this in regards to both race as well as fashion). Because anyone who would ONLY date a certain race / someone who wears very specific outfits begins to like them due to an idea of someone in their head as opposed to who that person actually is as a human being. Which is basically a kink / fetish. And I don't think anyone would like to be dated just because someone fetishes them, it's pretty dehumanizing. I've dealt with this as someone who is asian and back when I was in college there would be some girls who loved Korean drama / kpop and when they'd flirt with me it sorta made me feel uncomfortable. I don't know if that makes sense. But it's like if someone only likes you for how you look then it doesn't feel as if they like you for who you are. It's can be off putting. But if both parties are genuinely attracted to each other not just visually, but personality wise too then obviously that's much more of a healthy dynamic.

Here's my final take from a guy's perspective... 9/10 of men would like to marry a woman who dresses/acts conservatively. It shows that she has respect for her husband by not dressing too revealing and he won't have to worry if she'll leave with half his money after marriage. In regards to personality, I'd say many guys like a girl who can joke with them and when there is friendly banter, that's awesome :-)
However, I've delt with some "bad girls" or whatever you want to call them in my past and when they're toxic to the point that 99% of their conversations are just banter, it just exhausting. So there's gotta be a balance.
Now I do agree with some points in the article like finding simple women as boring... but that's just my personal opinion and I'm probably the minority. That's mainly because (as an atheist) it's hard to deeply relate with basic girls who are deeply indoctrinated into their religious beliefs, want to marry a man who works a 9-5, retire at 60, and have cheese and crackers with their neighbors every day. To some that sounds great, but to me personally that sounds incredibly boring. I'd rather work for myself and marry someone who isn't as brainwashed as these religious people and naturally girls who dress that way tend to share those religious beliefs. Although it's a catch 22 because generally those types of girls aren't always the best marriage material, but hey that's definitely a generalization. Anyways, those are my various viewpoints on this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bunnymmm
U

Unending

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2022
1,517
I'd say that all men have their own taste in women just like how all woman have their own taste in men. I imagine that a lot of bad boys like bad girls lol. Maybe I'm completely wrong though, who knows.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bunnymmm and winamp

Similar threads

daley
Replies
12
Views
814
Suicide Discussion
KuriGohan&Kamehameha
KuriGohan&Kamehameha
blacklemonade
Replies
5
Views
183
Suicide Discussion
blacklemonade
blacklemonade
FireFox
Replies
12
Views
430
Suicide Discussion
Ozzyno
Ozzyno
TheHolySword
Replies
7
Views
324
Suicide Discussion
been__ready
B
C
Replies
5
Views
317
Suicide Discussion
Forever Sleep
F