Story Kenneth Law (SN Provider) investigated by UK News provider

[ge0rge]

So there's no viable sources of SN remaining as of the moment?

there are definitely many

 

[OceanBlue]

well at least they'll never be able to ban rope

it's looking like a partial for me now... or stabbing

Idk how they read posts like this and not feel guilty.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

He's in the Daily Star as well "Sick chef played god" do these people even understand what they write. Let's completely ignore the fact people took this of their own free will.

 

[resolutory]

This all feels like such a co-ordinated attack.

 

[enviro400mmc]

Welp this is quite the story. an awful lot to unpack. I'm very glad I realised I needed to grab my SN while I still could, I could kind of see this coming from a mile away. I regret not getting more. I currently have two different packets stored in 2 different locations, neither of which are where it was originally sent to so hopefully I never lose some. Needless to say if the police start tracking SN owners down and trying to confiscate it it will probably accelerate many people's urge to drink it before it's too late, myself included. So much for suicide prevention... Sometimes I want to just jump in front of a train practically out of protest for actions like this, but I would never want to risk hurting anyone else, even if it is for a good cause and even if the hurt would be purely emotional. I'd probably be too scared to do it in any case.

I have read the article and listened to the podcast. It really is infuriating throughout. First of all - it is written and produced by well trained and well educated journalists, and there is no denying that they do a good job (particularly in the podcast) of sounding authoritative, informed and sensitive at face value to a layman listening to this. The depth of investigation is impressive - I am supposedly a person 'in' on the 'secret being revealed' yet even I learned a lot. I am amused at the fact he worked on the design of the brakes on the 787 in the UK, the kind of job I could imagine myself having in the future if I were actually able to live with myself for longer than the timespan of Liz Truss's premiership. Anyway, this means that most people (even many members of SaSu) will not get instantly see what this really is - a condescending, pompous hit job on suicidal people most of whom are far more vulnerable and far less privileged than the self-proclaimed heroes investigating this report.

The first episode of the podcast which described the life of someone clearly very similar to me was really moving and relatable. I could read between the vaguely spoken lines the clear immense emotional pain this guy was having to go through. And this first episode exposes the gaping hole in the entire premise of the report and podcast. Why did Tom want to end his life in the first place? Were there no failings at all in the treatment of his mental issues in the first place to try and allow him to live a happy, fulfilled life? If SN was not available would he not simply have found some other method to kill himself? It's just so obviously ignorant and disingenuous to people actually struggling to say KL alone killed him when it is not unlikely he simply would have killed himself using an uglier, more violent, more risky method instead.

This just goes to prove yet again that no-one cares whether suicidal people are happy. They just care whether they are alive.

 

[unnormal9]

This just goes to prove yet again that no-one cares whether suicidal people are happy. They just care whether they are alive.

As a result, only to suffer; it's inhumane. Why must they be so adamant to turn a blind eye to this?

 

[Unending]

He's in the Daily Star as well "Sick chef played god" do these people even understand what they write. Let's completely ignore the fact people took this of their own free will.

They also called the sn sick in the article and then I noticed there was a recommended article that also had sick in the title.

 

[Lullaby]

I just caught up on this and I'm beyond upset; I tossed my SN maybe two/three months ago when my mood spiked for a few weeks. I thought I didn't need it in the future since I had been feeling better.

I have so much I want to say but I'm also kind of speechless. Totally insane how people will go on about supporting mental health then treat anyone who's suicidal like a criminal.

 

[seekingpeacefulend]

Why is it that they all want people to suffer when dying is much better for someone like me. They want to keep us here to do what, suffer. What's the point unless they can do something to stop the suffering. In my case that's as easy as making sure I have enough money for food, power and pay essential bills, medical care Dr's all of which I can't afford. So keep me here to save my life for what so I continue going without what most other people have without blinking an eyelid. Why keep people here just to suffer and have absolutely no life. I wish I'd known about this guy and had money to be able to buy his substance because I sure as he would be in a much better place now instead of bring in pain, hungry, cold. I can't even shower unless it's a cold shower. What life is that. Prisoners have much more of a life than I do. Why the he'll keep me here.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@Lullaby that's where the pro-lifers arguments fall apart. There are so many people like you who haven't used their SN, either they've changed their mind or they are just keeping it in case their life gets completely unbearable. Give us the choice and don't treat us like children-no one is "assisting" all the people who have not even used their SN, they've made the choice for themselves-as it should be.

 

[Salvation_]

Not necessarily in the same boat, but what they said also isn't necessarily a direct comparison.
They're making a point. A fair one.
People don't usually go to such great lengths "just cuz" certain means or tools are within their grasp.

Violence can be a reaction to extreme duress and desperation..of which there are many possible causes.
Gun control isn't addressing these causes.

Suicide can be a reaction to extreme duress and desperation..of which there are many possible causes.
Suicide prevention is not addressing these causes.

There also is something to be said about possibly being in the same boat.
The problem is people get too bent out of shape with trying to distance themselves from the blind rage and demonization that gets directed at violent criminal behavior like school shootings.
And in a sense, I get it, we already have a target on our backs and we don't want to give the naysayers any further ammuntion to twist against us…we don't want to blur the line to the point that pro-lifers start acting like we're all latent criminals in the making.
But quite frankly I am sick and tired of the hypocrisy and the utter lack of nuance in discussing that type of topic (school shooters, law breaking, etc).
The "at least we're not them, they're the real scum" talking point.
It was rife in the thread here about the Nashville shooting (when barely any details were available) and I planned on saying something much more thorough and thought out about it then, but never got the chance.
Yes there are other victims to consider when it comes to these incidents, but thinking critically about a situation and what may have led to it is not the same as being insensitive.
Nor is it a jab at the suicidal.
(It's also strange to me how crazed people get over school shootings in particular when there are arguably even more despicable and violent actions being committed all the time, but with no sensationalism that draws the eye or ear.
Horrible cases where nobody is making any type of fuss or attempt at posturing.)

In short, if we are a group of people that supposedly know what it's like to suffer dearly and what that does to our minds, our bodies, our worth..how it affects our interactions with others, our mobility in society, our ability to navigate the world in what's deemed an acceptable way..how many of us have breakdowns with our sanity barely hanging on by a thread- in large part thanks to the people who push and prod and taunt and oppress us…is it that far of a leap in thinking to understand how someone in similar circumstances might snap outward instead of inward?
Because personally, the more I suffer and the more negative or apathetic reactions I receive in response to my suffering..the more these supposed "bad people" make sense to me.
They don't surprise me at all, they are not some mystery to me, and most are not monsters either.
I can imagine what they may have experienced over the course of their life, I can imagine what they may have been thinking, I can imagine how the domino pieces fell in just the right way where it opened up the possibility of violent behavior, even on a mass scale.
They're human beings at the end of the day, and surely it's not as simple as "bad person" or "bad brain" does bad thing.
I'm not saying every one of them has the same reasons or that every reason is as easy to comprehend as the next, but I don't think it's "unfair or distasteful" to bring up the obvious parallels, the elephant in the room…uncomfortable? Sure.
It's uncomfortable knowing that there are plenty of homicides (not just school shootings) which were first intended to be suicides (or vice versa), that a person with no reason to live and every reason to die, might extend their suffering to others, with motivations & rationale that may only be fathomable if you had lived their life from start to finish, if you had truly been them in that moment.
A moment they might even regret, a moment that may involve impulse, or mind altering drugs or excess stressors on the day it all came to fruition.

When it comes to the action of ending your own life versus ending someone else's..you could have just as much room for similarities as you do differences..in the circumstances, detriments and entire chain of events that lead up to either action
(or even both).
It may be unpleasant to realize, but it's just the fact of the matter.
And it doesn't suddenly mean suicidal people are somehow evil or irrational or any other unsavory adjective that could be thrown around by those who are quick to judge or conflate without deeper thought.

(Sorry for the rambling and getting somewhat off topic, but I think this is worth saying.)

I don't mind being a part of the minority opinion here. I simply cannot conflate people who wish to take their own lives (being pro-choice is par for the forum) and those who take their anger out on innocent people, people who get killed or left traumatized thinking they were going to die. I sympathize with those who have intrusive thoughts, I've been in their shoes once. But once someone has crossed the line, it can't be uncrossed. The line is different for everyone. It is no secret there are people out in the world who commit horrible, depraved acts and often for selfish reasons, and then they try to avoid consequences of their actions by pleading sanity. A lot of the forum remains pessimistic about the state of humanity, as do I, and I have no energy to assume the best of people. Suicide is consensual, murder is not. Bad people do not exist, but only people who do bad things... and again, there is a line to be crossed. It can be called selfish for a person to CTB by train because they are involving train conductors and witnesses. That's understandable to me. Or a person who fantasizes of dying by cop. That's fine, unless the plan involves shooting people who have nothing to do with you, unconsensually taking people's lives, just so you can die. I can't fathom that. All humans are apathetic towards each other by nature, I've simply come to accept that. Most of the people in these incidents don't even know the perpetrator, just being caught in the wrong time at the wrong place. Myself, I've come to find myself wishing to become a victim of these incidents so I wouldn't need to CTB myself. If those people who perpetrate need help, I hope they get help. On the other hand, I could never outright admit that I think the people who impulsively takes the lives of others (again, people who usually have nothing to do with them) during their breakdown should be given the same treatment as those who chose to jump from the burning building because it was the best perceived choice (using David Foster Wallace's analogy for suicide). Sorry if this came off as morally righteous and I'm not trying to come off as pro-life, just wanted to clarify some of my thoughts on the matter

 

[SilentSadness]

"We are also investing £2.3 billion extra a year into mental health services, which will help an additional two million people to access NHS-funded mental health support by 2024."

This money will just be wasted, it's amazing how oblivious they can be. The mental health services are beyond repair, and so anti-choice that they may as well not exist.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think they can, i've read before they have seized stuff from buyers before

Have you heard about them seizing SN in particular? I'm not convinced they can- seeing as it isn't illegal (at the moment.) Other illegal drugs like N- yes. SN has legitimate uses though. Not so sure the police will want to waste resources checking up on buyers. Even if you confirm you have it- you could be using it to cure meat. Even if you admitted that you bought it with the intention of CTB at some point in the future- should you get a debhilitating illness- suicide itself isn't illegal anymore. If you don't present an immediate threat to yourself and you seem to be in your right mind- I don't see what they could do...

 

[rationaltake]

Have you heard about them seizing SN in particular? I'm not convinced they can- seeing as it isn't illegal (at the moment.) Other illegal drugs like N- yes. SN has legitimate uses though. Not so sure the police will want to waste resources checking up on buyers. Even if you confirm you have it- you could be using it to cure meat. Even if you admitted that you bought it with the intention of CTB at some point in the future- should you get a debhilitating illness- suicide itself isn't illegal anymore. If you don't present an immediate threat to yourself and you seem to be in your right mind- I don't see what they could do...

I hope so.

 

[SilentSadness]

If you don't present an immediate threat to yourself and you seem to be in your right mind- I don't see what they could do...

They can realistically do whatever they want, as long as they can make some connection between you and suicide then no one will object to you being thrown in a psych ward. Suicide is definitely illegal, in all but name.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I have SN but I want the ability to get fresh SN whenever I want to. But the news media took that away now by taking down IC and kenneth Law

I feel i have to rush my suicide.

Now millions of people will not be able to painlessly escape extreme suffering , extreme pain , nor extreme torture.

Most humans suffer every day work , chores , problems stress having to feed this animal body 3 times a day groceries labor, bathroom breaks, taking out trash , work a job , all to risk even worse extreme torture happening to them.

We are a slave to the body and mind ( boredom for example) and a slave to society. And now they shut the only escape door

To me it's horrific to be trapped in an animal body that can become a torture chamber any day . It's a ticking time bomb for example stroke , cancer , accidents . This consciousness was trained in this ape vertebrate brain "l" in this animal body like Chatgpt was.

A million people commit suicide every year world wide . 25 times more attempt per year.

The New York times did a hit peice against this site . And a few months after that Nembutal from D was gone.

The news media are responsible for every bit of suffering people will go through . Most humans suffer every day work , chores , problems stress having to feed this animal body 3 times a day groceries labor, bathroom breaks, taking out trash , work a job , all to risk even worse extreme torture happening to them.

We are a slave to the body and mind ( boredom for example) and a slave to society. And now they shut the only escape door

 

[DesolateWhisper]

Has anybody on here listened to the podcasts they made? they actually recorded KL and put it on the internet! This is messing with my anxiety

 

[unnormal9]

They can realistically do whatever they want, as long as they can make some connection between you and suicide then no one will object to you being thrown in a psych ward. Suicide is definitely illegal, in all but name.

It is not illegal because such is not criminalised.

 

[RainAndSadness]

It is not illegal because such is not criminalised.

Then why are you thrown into a mental prison if you're trying to take your own life? Because you're not allowed to do it.

 

[unnormal9]

Then why are you thrown into a mental prison if you're trying to take your own life? Because you're not allowed to do it.

I did not connect psych ward with an actual prison where one is convicted of a crime of attempting to suicide.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I did not connect psych ward with an actual prison where one is convicted of a crime of attempting to suicide.

Well, did you ever visit a closed psych ward then? It's a nightmare, I can assure you that. I've talked to people that have been traumatized in these institutions due to degrading and dehumanizing treatment, someone told me they'd rather kill themselves than ever go back to a psych ward. And if you don't believe me, there are studies that confirm that people aren't necessarily improving in these facilities and that a majority of people dislike the treatment they receive. I don't really want to go into detail about because that's not really the discussion here and I already talked about psych wards in my response to Tantacrul anyway. But here is the deal: you're not allowed to leave a psych ward if you're in there as a result of you trying to commit suicide. That's essentially a prison. It doesn't matter how they call it, it remains a fact that they're infringing on your freedom and bodily integrity if they use coercive measures and that's ususally standard practice in there. So yeah, suicide might de jure not be illegal but it is de facto illegal. That's my point.

 

[unnormal9]

Well, did you ever visit a closed psych ward then? It's a nightmare, I can assure you that. I've talked to people that have been traumatized in these institutions due to degrading and dehumanizing treatment, someone told me they'd rather kill themselves than ever go back to a psych ward. And if you don't believe me, there are studies that confirm that people aren't necessarily improving in these facilities and that a majority of people dislike the treatment they receive. I don't really want to go into detail about because that's not really the discussion here and I already talked about psych wards in my response to Tantacrul anyway. But here is the deal: you're not allowed to leave a psych ward if you're in there as a result of you trying to commit suicide. That's essentially a prison. It doesn't matter how they call it, it remains a fact that they're infringing on your freedom and bodily integrity if they use coercive measures and that's ususally standard practice in there. So yeah, suicide might de jure not be illegal but it is de facto illegal. That's my point.

Yes I have, but it is not a prison where one is convicted and prosecuted. Yes, it feels like a prison but it is not actually one.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Yes I have, but it is not a prison where one is convicted and prosecuted. Yes, it feels like a prison but it is not actually one.

That's what I just said. I specifically mentioned "mental" prisons because they're worse. You haven't committed any crimes, they don't assess your mental capacity, there is no judge to make a lawful decision - you're just locked up without (m)any options to defend yourself legally because someone thinks you're impulsive, irrational and a danger to yourself. You can't do anything about it. That's definitely worse than going to prison after a lengthy and proper legal process to evaluate if you even belong there. The lack of legal means to defend yourself from involuntary committment is the problem. There should be a process to evaluate your mental capacity before you're thrown into a mental prison, locked up, unable to leave and exposed to coercion and abuse.

 

[Forever Sleep]

They can realistically do whatever they want, as long as they can make some connection between you and suicide then no one will object to you being thrown in a psych ward. Suicide is definitely illegal, in all but name.

Yeah, I guess you're right... are you in the US though? I'm not so sure it happens quite so readily in the UK- I doubt they've got the beds here- the NHS is crumbling... Some people who seem to want to be admited here can't- by the looks of it!

This likely won't be everyone's experience but this story has always stayed with me- the OP told them exactly what it was for and they didn't do anything. Still- with all this bad publicity recently, perhaps it would be a different story now...

Police at my house

Just had a visit from the Po Po at my house. Long story short. I admitted to a new MH team that I had SN. They reported it to ambulance crew as nitrAte police got involved somewhere along the road - thought I was making explosives. I told them it was nitrite not nitrate, he asked to see it, I...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I am curious though- CAN they really commit you if you can answer their questions in a calm and rational manner?

 

[ab_]

Seems we're out of sources for the time being then. Shit sucks. Was looking to replace my old batch.

 

[fuzzy-clown]

Is Kenneth Law a member here on SaSu?

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

£2.3 Billion in mental health??? Maybe they should invest it in the quality of life for people. Some suicides are mental health related but many are from seeing how shitty this world is and deciding not to continue.
The rich just get richer and squeeze every last drop out of it's workers for little pay.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Picture of Kenneth Law against the world wide Suicide Prohibition State .The only one who stood up against it.

 

[ge0rge]

mental hospitals and forced hospitalizations are absolutely horrendous. i do not wish them on anyone. you're treated like a common criminal for having the audacity to have poor mental health... i hope i never end up there again, or anyone else

 

[rationaltake]

I once said to a mental health worker when I was on her caseload that being sectioned wouldn't do me any good at all. Because I'd be locked up with noisy and violent people - I'd have drugs forced down me - and at the end of it I'd just be returned to exactly the same situation. The mental health worker totally agreed with me.