IV cannula setup question and My experience with IV trial with 0.9% Sodium Chloride/normal saline

[marcy2022]

I've managed to get an IV trial done with 0.9% Sodium Chloride/normal saline only.
Here's the gist of it:

500ml 0.9% Sodium Chloride IV plastic bottle
IV flow controller was set at 50%
I think the IV cannula they used was 20g (not sure cuz I didn't get to check the guage on the pack.) it was a pink one and online research suggests pink iv cannula gauge should be 20g) Is this correct based on the time it took? If anyone can calculate based on the time it took and remaining fluid and figure out the flow rate and match it with the relevant IV cannula gauge maybe?
It took 40 mins from the starting time to almost at 5-7/8% of the fluid remaining when the IV line was closed (unsure about the percentage cuz I'm dumb, I'm sorry about that)
Also they pinched a hole on top of the IV bottle with a needle and left the needle there.
I don't have medical expertise or anything but based on the above I'm just guessing that it'll take around 20 mins for a 430-450/500ml IV bag/bottle to empty itself. So thats 4min/100ml solution or maybe 70-80ml cuz of the remaining 5-7/8% fluid when IV line was closed.

I remember where the cannula was placed and I have some photos as well as learning from online, I'll try to replicate the same for when I decide to do it.
I was wondering if for whatever reasons I can't get the cannula needle part all the way in, is it okay if I leave some of the needle part outside and tape it in with waterproof crepe bandage, would it work if I can tape it and make it secure enough?
20g cannula for 30g thiopental mixed with 300-350/400ml saline is okay?

 

[k1w1]

Sounds like you have this well arranged. The only thing I would work on is the needle positioning. The body has some tremors at the endgame & you dont want it dropping out. You can find that info online. Well done with the rest of it. Part of me wants to ask why drinking it is an issue but its your show. Best.

 

[Sunset Limited]

The rate at which you can get from a gravity-fed drip infusion depends on how high you hang the bottle or bag and the vein resistance. The maximum speed is around 500ml/minute. The cannula you will use should be suitable for the width of the vessel. 22g is enough depending on your method. In my country, 22g is blue cannula. A very high flow rate is not needed because you have a sufficiently high concentration of solution. You have to do a lot of exercise so that something doesn't go wrong with cannulation. That's the point. Cannulation is not easy. First, you should watch many videos on Youtube, and after you understand well, you should do exercises.

 

[marcy2022]

Sounds like you have this well arranged. The only thing I would work on is the needle positioning. The body has some tremors at the endgame & you dont want it dropping out. You can find that info online. Well done with the rest of it. Part of me wants to ask why drinking it is an issue but its your show. Best.

I've failed previously with oral solution of thiopental at almost twice the suggested dosage with anti-emetics and 48 hour fasting regime. I was found almost 8+ hours later and somehow I'm still here. Don't know why or how but if I can, I don't want to risk it this time. I still have to test the whole iv thing on myself. I really hope it goes well.

The rate at which you can get from a gravity-fed drip infusion depends on how high you hang the bottle or bag and the vein resistance. The maximum speed is around 500ml/minute. The cannula you will use should be suitable for the width of the vessel. 22g is enough depending on your method. In my country, 22g is blue cannula. A very high flow rate is not needed because you have a sufficiently high concentration of solution. You have to do a lot of exercise so that something doesn't go wrong with cannulation. That's the point. Cannulation is not easy. First, you should watch many videos on Youtube, and after you understand well, you should do exercises.

The place where I am, cannula's seem to have different colors on different gauge's depending on the country it's imported from but I have some us imported 18g cannula's and I think I can get a few 20g cannula if necessary. Which cannula goes into which vein is something I don't know much about.

 

[marcy2022]

What If I use some hard plastic bottle or something to prepare a makeshift tube around the cannula and tubing to prevent blocking of IV tubing or needle getting misplaced by SI or whatever reason my body moves. Would it help or unnecessary? I really wish I could afford a syrige pump :(

I just thought of something. What if I mix around 20-25g thiopental via IV and and have 5-10g thiopental mixed with 25-50ml 0.9% Sodium Chloride/normal saline in a syringe. Right at the same time as opening the IV flow controller what if I inject the 5-10g thiopental solution with syringe as fast as possible. My guess is I'll probably have less than 5 seconds to push as much of it possible from the syringe and the rest will come from the IV bag.
Or alternatively what If I use a piece of fabric or elastic resistance band or something similar tourniquet in the same hand or the other hand where I don't have IV and really tighten it to the point blood stops flowing or to a point of almost not flowing and then inject 5-10g thiopental using a syringe. Right afterwards open the IV flow controller and release the tourniquet as fast as possible. I know there may still be a chance of fainting before I managed to get the steps done. I've never been under full anesthetization and I'm just guessing that if it takes around 5 seconds to be unconscious, I might start feeling the effects such as drowsiness, blurry vision etc within seconds and the whole syringe idea might fail. Bad idea?

 

[Sunset Limited]

What If I use some hard plastic bottle or something to prepare a makeshift tube around the cannula and tubing to prevent blocking of IV tubing or needle getting misplaced by SI or whatever reason my body moves. Would it help or unnecessary? I really wish I could afford a syrige pump :(

I just thought of something. What if I mix around 20-25g thiopental via IV and and have 5-10g thiopental mixed with 25-50ml 0.9% Sodium Chloride/normal saline in a syringe. Right at the same time as opening the IV flow controller what if I inject the 5-10g thiopental solution with syringe as fast as possible. My guess is I'll probably have less than 5 seconds to push as much of it possible from the syringe and the rest will come from the IV bag.
Or alternatively what If I use a piece of fabric or elastic resistance band or something similar tourniquet in the same hand or the other hand where I don't have IV and really tighten it to the point blood stops flowing or to a point of almost not flowing and then inject 5-10g thiopental using a syringe. Right afterwards open the IV flow controller and release the tourniquet as fast as possible. I know there may still be a chance of fainting before I managed to get the steps done. I've never been under full anesthetization and I'm just guessing that if it takes around 5 seconds to be unconscious, I might start feeling the effects such as drowsiness, blurry vision etc within seconds and the whole syringe idea might fail. Bad idea?

Arm-brain circulation is 8-10 seconds. Assuming that 1 gram of thiopental dissolves in 4 cc, it is possible to push 5 grams (20 cc) of thiopental through a large vein in 10 seconds. This works. The hemodynamic effects of rapid injection are more dramatic. That should kill the average person in 2 minutes. It inhibits respiration long enough for fatal hypoxia, even if it does not cause cardiovascular collapse. However, the pain score of this injection may be high.

It's really interesting that you survived on 10 grams of oral thiopental. May I ask your height, weight, and age?

 

[marcy2022]

Arm-brain circulation is 8-10 seconds. Assuming that 1 gram of thiopental dissolves in 4 cc, it is possible to push 5 grams (20 cc) of thiopental through a large vein in 10 seconds. This works. The hemodynamic effects of rapid injection are more dramatic. That should kill the average person in 2 minutes. It inhibits respiration long enough for fatal hypoxia, even if it does not cause cardiovascular collapse. However, the pain score of this injection may be high.

It's really interesting that you survived on 10 grams of oral thiopental. May I ask your height, weight, and age?

What happens if I lose consciousness before injecting the whole solution from the syringe and the syringe falls off from the cannula injection port leaving it open, usually when IV is given I've noticed after giving injections through the cannula injection port they close it with a cap. However once unconscious and the syringe falls off leaving the cannula injection port open, does if effect the IV flow or anything?

Question regarding the cannula needle, does it have to inserted all the way in or can it work as long as it's in the vein and taped in securely? What about using a syringe needle for iv instead of cannula, does it work?

Not 10g. I don't recall the exact dosage but I'm pretty sure it was double or almost double the dosage with phenytoin sodium mixed in there. I took all the powder out from the veils and crushed phenytoin sodium pills, mixed them together in a plastic sealed bag for a couple of days (not sure how many days but pretty sure it was less than 5-7 days). With 48 hour fasting followed by anti anti-emetic regime. During this 48 hour I've smoked drank water, possibly tea or coffee and maybe little bit of this and that but I don't remember much of what happened during the fasting. At that time I didn't have access to meto, I remember using Ondansetron and another one. After the drink I little bit of honey prepared to wash off the bad aftertaste. I remember right the moment I finished the drink I gad unusual feelings throughout my body. I could feel something was going on but I don't recall pain. Immediately my eyes started watering and it was as if tears were coming out of my eyes and no I wasn't crying. My body started to feel weak and I knew I was gonna lose consciousness soon enough. I laid down on the bed and tried to play some music but my eyes were blurry and it was quite difficult to see. As soon I've managed to play music, I just payed down on my back and closed my eyes. The waters coming out of my eyes wouldn't stop and I felt some pressure in my eyes, that scared me but it was still okay. Then I vaguely remember switching to my sides and I think maybe I've turned on my stomach afterwards (not sure) and afterwards I don't remember anything.
Next thing I remember was waking up in a hospital bed with my hands and legs tied down. I knew I had to comply. I was told when someone found me around 8 hours later (not sure about the exact time but regardless 8 hours should've been more than enough it work). White foamy stuff were coming out of my mouth. Then I was taken to the emergency. Later I was also told they didn't know what type of poisoning it was and they wrote it down as unknown poisoning. At that time I was in and out of consciousness which continued for days, possibly weeks. They tried to ask me what I took but I couldn't talk even when I tried to. No sound out come out as my lungs were severely damaged or so I was told. It took months to be able to talk and it was so painful even to try to utter a few words. At that time I think my weight was around 120lbs, height 170cm, age 28.
I wish I knew what went wrong so I could maybe fix it something but to this day I have no clue but guesses and my best guess is that the medications were bad. But there maybe a slight possibility that the white foamy stuff was vomit and I vomited out a lot of the solution that I drank but it's just a guess. Idk

 

[Sunset Limited]

You cannot be unconscious before 8 seconds. The time it takes for this drug to reach the brain. During this time, it is possible to push 20 cc from a vein in the arm. It will be painful. If you can push them all, it won't change the result when the cannula leaves the vein.

 

[marcy2022]

You cannot be unconscious before 8 seconds. The time it takes for this drug to reach the brain. During this time, it is possible to push 20 cc from a vein in the arm. It will be painful. If you can push them all, it won't change the result when the cannula leaves the vein.

Yesterday I was checking the veins on my hand and I used a piece of fabric as tourniquet. It was tightened quite a bit. After maybe a few minutes my hand started feeling a little numb and somewhat painful. Would it be bad to do a more extreme version of this where the tourniquet is really really tight (before the elbow or near the biceps, probably before the elbow) and inject some of it with a syringe 5-10g in 50ml solution and fully open the iv flow controller at the same time. I mean if the tourniquet slows down or stops the blood circulation (not sure if stopping all the way is possible) while IV fluid entering the blood vessels at the same time via IV tubing connected to cannula and possibly a syringe which may or may not be connected to the same cannula or blood vessel. Does the insertion of additional fluid make any difference?

Here: https://trauma-news.com/2017/09/stop-bleed-8-pitfalls-avoid-hemorrhage-control/
"Whenever a tourniquet is applied to an extremity for hemorrhage control, it should be made tight enough to completely obliterate the distal pulse. This is to ensure that no blood is getting past the tourniquet and into the extremity."
If I can manage to do this and then open the IV fluid controller all the way and at the same time inject 5-10g mixed with 50ml IV solution with a syringe, what are the chance of it to work before I lose consciousness? (considering factor maybe the tourniquet isn't all the way tight to stop bloodflow completely and some fluids are still passing though there) And if I can do this, would it create too much pressure in the blood vessels that might complicate things somehow? or maybe fluids starts leaking from around the needle as they don't have anywhere to go cuz the other side is blocked?