Discussion If mental health professionals want to (legitimately) help people, then...

[TAW122]

They need to rethink their approach as well as their fundamental concepts. Also, society itself must change as well for real solutions. I know that what I am going to suggest would not be likely to happen, but I thought maybe someone might have similar ideas or maybe even something I haven't thought of before.

Anyways, without further ado, this comes from a thread that I have found on reddit here, where the poster (a therapist) asks for feedback from suicidal people. There are many good posts, but I wanted to add some general points though.

What they could do that will (actually) help suicidal people.
1. Instead of threatening involuntary commitment, treating those with suicidal tendencies or ideation like they are a criminal or holding them against their will, understand that suicide is an option and that NOT all suicides are impulsive, irrational, and/or a result of mental illness.
2. Do away with involuntary commitment (the government and authorities must change the current law) and while suicide is tragic, it is ok to empathize and dissuade from impulsive, poorly thought out actions, but NEVER forcibly lock someone up or treat them. That is not the way to get people to open up.
3. Do NOT keep pushing the (I may save another thread discussing about the circular logic/reasoning and the flawed argument about seeking therapy as well as suicide) chemical imbalance bullshit (yes there are some cases - but I believe it is over-exaggerated, over-represented to the point where it becomes like a reflexive response without merit), seek therapy as therapy is always the answer, etc.
4. Helping the effort and pushing for de-stigmatization of suicide as a taboo (will also require the efforts of society as well) action but a personal, rational choice in most cases. Also, society should focus more on fixing the root causes for suicide. (This article is just one example of ACTUAL societal change to reduce the amount of suicides.)
5. Recognize that in a free society, if one has the right to life, then one should have the right to death as well, and that it would be hypocritical to preach free will while forbidding others to take their own lives (which is the ultimate act of freedom).
6. Just because there are people who get better, does not mean everyone will get better; also what is not as bad to one may be worse for another - no two people are the same.

I posted in there giving my two cents, which pretty much sums up what I've said in this thread..

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Aaron Josef]

They prescribe medication to help mask your emotions so you can live the most productive life possible.

I think it is covering a wound with a band aid except for the wound never actually heals.
When I was younger and prescribed drugs for depression,anxiety,bipolar I didn't take it as I got older I started taking the meds & I ended up addicted-i tapered off the meds, been off for several months and I'm worse off then before taking the meds so I have thoughts off Suicide or could get back on the meds? I feel stuck in limbo for months now not doing anything

 

[Lra888]

I was involuntarily hospitalized in high school because I told a doctor I was so depressed I wanted to die. My life was extremely fucked up at that time with health issues, death in family, friend killed in car accident, extreme stress at school and home - but that didn't matter to anyone and I was just mentally ill to them.

That horrible experience taught me to keep all of my problems to myself and i avoided any kind of treatment for many years which made everything worse.

 

[ParamitePie]

They prescribe medication to help mask your emotions so you can live the most productive life possible.

This, exactly. We live in societies that subject people to conditions which they find intolerable, and instead of changing the conditions which make them prefer death over life, people are simply given drugs, saddled with massive fees and sent on their way. The intent isn't to help individuals, but to modify their internal state so they can tolerate their intolerable circumstances, for the sole purpose of generating revenue.

 

[Lunar]

Mental health 'professionals' accepting suicide as a valid option will likely never happen. Just pop everyone full of pills like they're a product, zombify them to be a productive member of society and send them on their way is their attitude. I've been on multiple anti-depressants over the years and I'm tired of it. I quit them for awhile and now they're trying to give me more again. There's a lot of things about the way 'society' works that needs to change but again it ain't gonna happen. It's a never ending cycle of rubbish imo.

 

[Dean]

The truth is that people are scared to talk about suicide now that you can get locked away for it which is ridiculous. Why are criminals given the right to a bail trial almost immediately but I can be locked away for weeks without even a trial for something I SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO. When people are scared to talk about their feelings they will bottle them up and eventually it will explode. I've talked to a lot of people about being suicidal and I've gotten a lot of reactions. Some people say platitudes like "permanent solution to temporary problem" , some people tell me that life is a miracle, some people tell me I'm ungrateful etc. But the best conversation I had and the one that actually made me feel better was with a teacher I had. She talked about suicide very rationally with me and told me yeah you can kill yourself, but you never know how your life can change in 10 years, and life is very short anyway and will be over soon enough. She told me she can't make that decision for me, but she would be hurt and I would be wasting my opportunity to go after what I wanted in life and share my perspective with others. People commit suicide because they feel helpless in their situations. If we empower them to make choices they will feel better. Now that I have N I feel so much better knowing that at the end of the day it's my choice whether I stay or go..
Unfortunately therapists will likely never be able to do this because of ethical violations. I feel if we integrate this sort of model maybe impulsive suicides would increase, but rational suicides would go down.

 

[1964dodge]

suicide should be a last resort because it's permanent, sanctioned suicide a person should have to talk to someone in case there is another option not considered but the person wanting to go would have the right to choose in the case of a mentally ill person they should have to go through 6 months of treatment first that being said when a person decides to they should have a place to go to legally do it with easy painless and lethal means in dignity

 

[Nowayout]

They need to rethink their approach as well as their fundamental concepts. Also, society itself must change as well for real solutions. I know that what I am going to suggest would not be likely to happen, but I thought maybe someone might have similar ideas or maybe even something I haven't thought of before.

Anyways, without further ado, this comes from a thread that I have found on reddit here, where the poster (a therapist) asks for feedback from suicidal people. There are many good posts, but I wanted to add some general points though.

What they could do that will (actually) help suicidal people.
1. Instead of threatening involuntary commitment, treating those with suicidal tendencies or ideation like they are a criminal or holding them against their will, understand that suicide is an option and that NOT all suicides are impulsive, irrational, and/or a result of mental illness.
2. Do away with involuntary commitment (the government and authorities must change the current law) and while suicide is tragic, it is ok to empathize and dissuade from impulsive, poorly thought out actions, but NEVER forcibly lock someone up or treat them. That is not the way to get people to open up.
3. Do NOT keep pushing the (I may save another thread discussing about the circular logic/reasoning and the flawed argument about seeking therapy as well as suicide) chemical imbalance bullshit (yes there are some cases - but I believe it is over-exaggerated, over-represented to the point where it becomes like a reflexive response without merit), seek therapy as therapy is always the answer, etc.
4. Helping the effort and pushing for de-stigmatization of suicide as a taboo (will also require the efforts of society as well) action but a personal, rational choice in most cases. Also, society should focus more on fixing the root causes for suicide. (This article is just one example of ACTUAL societal change to reduce the amount of suicides.)
5. Recognize that in a free society, if one has the right to life, then one should have the right to death as well, and that it would be hypocritical to preach free will while forbidding others to take their own lives (which is the ultimate act of freedom).
6. Just because there are people who get better, does not mean everyone will get better; also what is not as bad to one may be worse for another - no two people are the same.

I posted in there giving my two cents, which pretty much sums up what I've said in this thread..

What are your thoughts on this?

They do what they are taught to keep there career. Just like regular doctors. There are many cases where people would be better off dead but for whatever reason they'll cut off all your limbs and call it a success if it "saves a life."
I think there is a whole lot of empathy missing in society in regards to people who are suffering miserably. Maybe

 

[Mr2005]

They have to start listening to what we're actually saying and not just assume it's all madness. They also shouldn't think they know what's best for you after five minutes just because they have qualifications

 

[TheGoodGuy]

I would like to add that I am struggling with the fact that I can´t tell my would-be psychiatrist and doctor that I am suicidal because I own guns and I and a lot of other people aren´t stupid and I know as soon as I mention to a psychiatrist that I am suicidal they will take my guns away so I can´t really get the help I need. I would really like to put all the cards on the table when I have to get tested for a diagnosis but when I have talked with the doctor to get a referral to a shrink I had to immediately say no when they asked if I was depressed or suicidal because what they are basically asking is "do you want to have your guns taken away" this may seem completely stupid to other people but firearms are my number 1 hobby and the only hobby I have left I don´t even enjoy video games anymore so if they take my guns away that would literally kill me I would ctb if they ever did that.

I obviously also want to have the guns as a option to ctb because it´s easier so I know people would use that as ammo (no pun intended) for why suicidal people shouldn´t have access to guns but I have been suicidal for over 10 years but obviously don´t show anyone because it´s easy to fool people by slapping on a happy face and doing well in school etc. But being depressed or suicidal shouldn´t be a reason to take away peoples guns, I can understand that they don´t want "mentally ill" people with say Schizophrenia to own a gun or any other mental illness that could make a person a danger to others but depression and suicidal thoughts shouldn´t really be treated the same especially in my case since firearms are the only thing I am passionate about and actually keeps me going so they would essentially take away my last source of happiness thus be responsible for my suicide after they would take my guns away.

Sorry long post I can never keep it short but I would actually like to hear if anyone including OP would you think of this.

 

[2CropcircleUNeedHelp]

Let's destigmatize being sad? You can't make something that is bad good like that. Stigma means a scarring. It is scarring to be sad. Never said how long the scar lasts, it can be quick healing.
Actually I think that maybe they mean let's get rid of the hurt people have when they feel they can't open up to people so they can be helped. That sounds good! Why don't we stop humiliating and demeaning people by taking their rights so they don't feel like it is scarring to open up and make yourself a candidate to enter a forced drugging and thought policing ward.

 

[GeorgeEastman]

No changes will be made. How it is is how it's gonna be.

Anyone who doesn't think about this stuff will never understand it. Might as well go from there.

 

[Pastdue]

I agree totally.

A professional in Belgium changed his mind but only after a woman who requested assisted suicide on the grounds of mental suffering suicided in public in a dreadful manner.

There are some people who think that people with unbearable mental suffering should have the right to assisted death. There are even some in my country. Exit International also believes this.

The fact is that at the current time people who read about mental illness in a textbook think they know more about it than people who experience it firsthand.

Fact is society should acknowledge that locking people up in hospital doesn't stop them from committing suicide, it just teaches them never to tell anyone about their plans ever.

Maybe one day society will be enlightening and allow mentally suffering people a dignified death, I personally hope so.

 

[1964dodge]

I would like to add that I am struggling with the fact that I can´t tell my would-be psychiatrist and doctor that I am suicidal because I own guns and I and a lot of other people aren´t stupid and I know as soon as I mention to a psychiatrist that I am suicidal they will take my guns away so I can´t really get the help I need. I would really like to put all the cards on the table when I have to get tested for a diagnosis but when I have talked with the doctor to get a referral to a shrink I had to immediately say no when they asked if I was depressed or suicidal because what they are basically asking is "do you want to have your guns taken away" this may seem completely stupid to other people but firearms are my number 1 hobby and the only hobby I have left I don´t even enjoy video games anymore so if they take my guns away that would literally kill me I would ctb if they ever did that.

I obviously also want to have the guns as a option to ctb because it´s easier so I know people would use that as ammo (no pun intended) for why suicidal people shouldn´t have access to guns but I have been suicidal for over 10 years but obviously don´t show anyone because it´s easy to fool people by slapping on a happy face and doing well in school etc. But being depressed or suicidal shouldn´t be a reason to take away peoples guns, I can understand that they don´t want "mentally ill" people with say Schizophrenia to own a gun or any other mental illness that could make a person a danger to others but depression and suicidal thoughts shouldn´t really be treated the same especially in my case since firearms are the only thing I am passionate about and actually keeps me going so they would essentially take away my last source of happiness thus be responsible for my suicide after they would take my guns away.

Sorry long post I can never keep it short but I would actually like to hear if anyone including OP would you think of this.

you're right and if you had your guns taken away you couldn't do it by hanging stabbing overdose etc. it's stupid to take the guns away and you're unfortunately are right about not telling the truth. I think therapy and meds would help me but i'm afraid if I told them the real truth I would end up in the hospital. I slipped once but was able to convince the doctor I was safe and ok

 

[Schopenhauer]

I've said it elsewhere, but I'd like the option to make a deal: I'd go to therapy for 6-12 months, and even accept antidepressants. By the end of this period, if I still wanted to die, they'd have to provide drugs for a painless death. But the government and medical-industrial complex will never go for it - they think you just need more pills/therapy.

 

[Aaron Josef]

This, exactly. We live in societies that subject people to conditions which they find intolerable, and instead of changing the conditions which make them prefer death over life, people are simply given drugs, saddled with massive fees and sent on their way. The intent isn't to help individuals, but to modify their internal state so they can tolerate their intolerable circumstances, for the sole purpose of generating revenue.

Well said.
We are in a monetary system.

 

[SamK]

Completely agree.Not only are we treated like criminals, but also treated like non humans, and like children. The last time I openly admitted I was suicidal, a mental health nurse from the crisis team said ''No, Sam, we're not going to talk about that. You need to think positively'' I said okay and proceeded to go home attempt hanging and took a massive OD. i'm still here but besides the point. Even general practitioners need to re-learn bedside manner some of them. I told a dr years ago i felt like CTB he told me ''don't do anything stupid''. The thing is, it's not stupid, we need to start tackling the causes like you mentioned. It stems back to many other things, poverty, lack of healthcare, domestic violence, losses (like miscarriages- the after care, for example, is awful). I had one and was just merely given a leaflet to take home and sme pills and that was it forgotten about. Housing is another issue. A person can only take so much.
They place too much emphasis on chemical imbalance and they do seem to treat one like all others. Just because mood stabilizers helped their last BPD patient doesn't mean it will help the next.
Correct diagnosis is vital as well. I've seen psychiatrists for 2 minutes, they've diagnosed me with mental illnesses without even knowing me or asking me any questions, and without me volunteering any information on any experiences.

Hospital admissions for those in a crisis are disgraceful in the UK. Unless you're running the streets naked claiming to be Jesus and jumping through traffic you're not really seen as priority. They focus more on psychotic patients here, at least, if you are depressed and tell someone you're headed to the cliffs you'll just be told to phone a helpline, it's not until someone actually clearly attempts and is caught in the act that they start to listen. Young people know this too. This is why we have so many self harming at a young age. They are literally crying out for someone to help them. Th way they see it is, if i have no cuts on my wrists etc I won't be listened to. That needs to change. Young persons and young adults mental healtj.

The main thing though, that bothers me... is statistics. You see they follow it like rule of thumb. If you are a male aged between 16-24 (or whatever it is) vs a female age 41, the male is statistically more likely to CTB based on history so priority goes to them. What i'm trying to say is, they try put you into categories and assess risk that way, instead of listening to the patients. They treat some depressed patients as if they have munchasen or are somehow crying wolf. The risk assessments they do on community (and) inpatients are again based on statistic. Risk panels and the like.
I was once offered a long term treatment inpatient but it actually took 47 overdoses , and eventual coma and disability/injury for them to even blimmin listen to me. I wasn't crying for help i was serious but in my eyes it was too late. I shouldn't have even attempted twice if they had helped me in time, when I was at the gp every fortnight begging for help. This was a long time ago anyway. I could rant all day about mental health services and what i've seen them do to my friends who CTB , and myself, and in general how awful they are. They get away with murder quite literally. Look all the coroner inquests it doesn't matter what the psychiatrist or mental health nurse says or didn't do

Here in the local emergency department i can't tell you how many people have gone in to see the psychiatric emergency teams, told them they are jumping from beachy head, are left to go and then go jump off within hours. Like seriously. Why would they let someone go, again, stigma surrounding the belief that if someone is willingly going to seek help they can't be 100% intent, they must want saving -- wrong wrong wrong.
Ok this will turn into a book i'll wrap it up.. lol

 

[SamK]

Here's what psych meds did to me too.
Haloperidol - left me with permanent tardive dyskinesia. I look like i'm having partial seizures all day and i can't stop the movements. Head turning, shrugging, clenching my jaw.

Cymbalta- drove me insane literally. I was a huge danger to myself on that and was in hospital every week from self harming, so what'd they do, increased the dosage and added more pills.

Olanzapine- Years ago I was put on that and piled on about 4 stones in 1-1.5 years. I was also knocked out all day. Life was sleep, eat, sleep, eat.
Risperidone ^ same thing. Aripiprazole ^ same thing, sleeping all day. No life. Lost my job, my friends, lost it all.
Most antidepressants didn't touch anything at all, nor did the mood stabilizers. Then they forced injections on me and I ended up with a catheter, now totally humiliated, and sleeping all the time, and putting on weight no matter how well I ate. God I just hate them.
The hospital admissions did nothing for me. The only thing which helped in terms o being sectioned were the other patients understanding me, n that is it.

 

[Aaron Josef]

I feel as though certain people throughout my life thought as if the medication for anxiety/bipolar/severe depression was a cure for it, Yes I took meds for about 5Years and was able to go outside but then I needed the meds just to get out of bed, couldn't do anything without taking a pill first

 

[SamK]

Same here. I was dependent on diazepam just to make a phone call or answer my front door. It helped sure but it's just like a plaster, it only masks. nod

 

[Aaron Josef]

Here's what psych meds did to me too.
Haloperidol - left me with permanent tardive dyskinesia. I look like i'm having partial seizures all day and i can't stop the movements. Head turning, shrugging, clenching my jaw.

Cymbalta- drove me insane literally. I was a huge danger to myself on that and was in hospital every week from self harming, so what'd they do, increased the dosage and added more pills.

Olanzapine- Years ago I was put on that and piled on about 4 stones in 1-1.5 years. I was also knocked out all day. Life was sleep, eat, sleep, eat.
Risperidone ^ same thing. Aripiprazole ^ same thing, sleeping all day. No life. Lost my job, my friends, lost it all.
Most antidepressants didn't touch anything at all, nor did the mood stabilizers. Then they forced injections on me and I ended up with a catheter, now totally humiliated, and sleeping all the time, and putting on weight no matter how well I ate. God I just hate them.
The hospital admissions did nothing for me. The only thing which helped in terms o being sectioned were the other patients understanding me, n that is it.

What are you doing now?
I feel like you just described me

 

[Retched]

Hi- new here but long time lurker....I go to therapy every week. I have to turn in a "diary" that lists my suicidal "actions" and "thoughts" as well as self harm "actions" and "thoughts". I could put a rating of 10 on each of them (10 being highest) each time and all that is said to me is "you've got to get out of your own head." Thanks therapy. This is after a failed & impulsive suicide attempt (damn it) and a hefty hospital bill that I may never be able to pay off...a destroyed car (my fault)....and a half life.....as if that makes you feel better after botched suicide.

Unless there is a huge change in what a joke hospitals are for suicidal people, the bunk therapy and the loads of drug pushing psychiatric care, there will be actual helping. Make the therapy free, give us some TIME to figure this out without the stress of real life and bs hospital "help" and as it was mentioned, you still want to off yourself? Then let it be. I just got a full time job again and had to decide to give up my therapy because its during working hours. Come on 1.5 hours of group with 1 hour of therapy each week?The WRAP groups? Well, let's make those at 4 pm and 5 pm. What? What job will give you that much time off? The ONLY people this place I go to is those that don't have to work or are on disability. One dude in my group talks about jail and the state psych ward all the time. He gets more services than I do. I'm actually jealous of him. He's on housing, gets food stamps, has all the time in the world for therapy, they help him find a job.

And the place I go had the audacity to tell me a while back "well let fixing your mental health be your job." Yeah, as if that pays the off the gigantic hospital bills I have. For what? To not ever tell any professional how I really feel again. Because it's bs. I'm on drugs again, and even when I said I felt more suicidal, all they said was, "give it a shot." Yeah, in the head. With a gun. But well. I have a job now. Two actually one part time because I'm in so much debt. So that's something. Too bad my "job" can't be fixing my "mental health."

 

[onewayroad]

I agree with you completely except for point 3, I disagree about treatment. First of all, your thoughts, memories, emotions, etc. are all chemical and electrical events occurring in your brain. Although it is not your brain, you are the brain. So any mental illness is a physical problem, usually chemical as most involve dysfunction of neurotransmitters.

Second, while meds can do a lot of harm they can also help if you are lucky enough to find one that works for you. I haven't found anything that works for me yet but I am going to continue to try. And therapy has never helped me at all but it can help some people.

I think treatment is often poorly executed, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to seek treatment. Suicide should definitely be up to the individual. But no matter how much pain someone is in, if that pain could be relieved somehow and that person could live a normal happy life then suicide would have been a mistake.

I think I have a moral obligation to try every treatment available to me before I ctb.

 

[SamK]

I agree, some medications can really help. I've seen it turn lives around and have seen therapy turn lives around. It's just important to have a psychiatrist / therapist who will include you in any treatment plans and getting the right diagnosis is important ... I was wrongly diagnosed and so that's why all the anti psychotic meds made me ill - because I didn't really need them. In the end I did recover for about two years on a new medicine.. I think it was Effexor . It lifted my mood a lot. My reasons for CTB are now mainly to do with life itself. If it were depression i'd know that Effexor might help lift my mood again. They do work, if you genuinely need them (and been diagnosed properly) Onewayroad is right. I never want to put anyone off seeking treatment, there are some good people out there who work in Mental Health. I agree on trying everything you can before CTB

 

[NoOneKnows]

Here's what psych meds did to me too.
Haloperidol - left me with permanent tardive dyskinesia. I look like i'm having partial seizures all day and i can't stop the movements. Head turning, shrugging, clenching my jaw.

Cymbalta- drove me insane literally. I was a huge danger to myself on that and was in hospital every week from self harming, so what'd they do, increased the dosage and added more pills.

Olanzapine- Years ago I was put on that and piled on about 4 stones in 1-1.5 years. I was also knocked out all day. Life was sleep, eat, sleep, eat.
Risperidone ^ same thing. Aripiprazole ^ same thing, sleeping all day. No life. Lost my job, my friends, lost it all.
Most antidepressants didn't touch anything at all, nor did the mood stabilizers. Then they forced injections on me and I ended up with a catheter, now totally humiliated, and sleeping all the time, and putting on weight no matter how well I ate. God I just hate them.
The hospital admissions did nothing for me. The only thing which helped in terms o being sectioned were the other patients understanding me, n that is it.

What injections you were forced to take, I was also forced to take injections

 

[SamK]

What injections you were forced to take, I was also forced to take injections

I was forced to take Clopixol and Paliperidone. Sorry you went through this too!

 

[Aaron Josef]

I mean it's obvious Suicide makes people uncomfortable, everyone here knows that.
Being depressed/sad Sucks, I mean nothing absolutely nothing throughout my entire life has or will ever make me happy & I accept that I'm old enough to know my brain will not change so I have to be Sneaky and jump through hoops looking for a way to commit suicide because of society's uncomfortableness with it, I have lost people to suicide and it hurts but it was there choice, I'm not mad at them.

 

[VincentValentine]

The other thing is that therapists/counselors are mean, cold, stoic, and argumentative. It seems like a lot of them don't even try to understand or empathize with the plight of their patients. Therapy is supposed to deter you from suicide and depression, but for me it just exacerbated those things.

The therapists that I saw were judgmental of me, kept interrupting me while I was talking, called me overly sensitive, stared at me awkwardly with long periods of silence, and one even smirked/laughed while I was talking to her.

Therapists are full of shit and just made me want to ctb even more.

 

[lv-gras]

I would like to add that I am struggling with the fact that I can´t tell my would-be psychiatrist and doctor that I am suicidal because I own guns and I and a lot of other people aren´t stupid and I know as soon as I mention to a psychiatrist that I am suicidal they will take my guns away so I can´t really get the help I need. I would really like to put all the cards on the table when I have to get tested for a diagnosis but when I have talked with the doctor to get a referral to a shrink I had to immediately say no when they asked if I was depressed or suicidal because what they are basically asking is "do you want to have your guns taken away" this may seem completely stupid to other people but firearms are my number 1 hobby and the only hobby I have left I don´t even enjoy video games anymore so if they take my guns away that would literally kill me I would ctb if they ever did that.

I obviously also want to have the guns as a option to ctb because it´s easier so I know people would use that as ammo (no pun intended) for why suicidal people shouldn´t have access to guns but I have been suicidal for over 10 years but obviously don´t show anyone because it´s easy to fool people by slapping on a happy face and doing well in school etc. But being depressed or suicidal shouldn´t be a reason to take away peoples guns, I can understand that they don´t want "mentally ill" people with say Schizophrenia to own a gun or any other mental illness that could make a person a danger to others but depression and suicidal thoughts shouldn´t really be treated the same especially in my case since firearms are the only thing I am passionate about and actually keeps me going so they would essentially take away my last source of happiness thus be responsible for my suicide after they would take my guns away.

Sorry long post I can never keep it short but I would actually like to hear if anyone including OP would you think of this.

agree, except schizophrenia doesn't actually make you really more dangerous to others, although it can put you in more danger.

 

[2CropcircleUNeedHelp]

Completely agree.Not only are we treated like criminals, but also treated like non humans, and like children. The last time I openly admitted I was suicidal, a mental health nurse from the crisis team said ''No, Sam, we're not going to talk about that. You need to think positively'' I said okay and proceeded to go home attempt hanging and took a massive OD. i'm still here but besides the point. Even general practitioners need to re-learn bedside manner some of them. I told a dr years ago i felt like CTB he told me ''don't do anything stupid''. The thing is, it's not stupid, we need to start tackling the causes like you mentioned. It stems back to many other things, poverty, lack of healthcare, domestic violence, losses (like miscarriages- the after care, for example, is awful). I had one and was just merely given a leaflet to take home and sme pills and that was it forgotten about. Housing is another issue. A person can only take so much.
They place too much emphasis on chemical imbalance and they do seem to treat one like all others. Just because mood stabilizers helped their last BPD patient doesn't mean it will help the next.
Correct diagnosis is vital as well. I've seen psychiatrists for 2 minutes, they've diagnosed me with mental illnesses without even knowing me or asking me any questions, and without me volunteering any information on any experiences.

Hospital admissions for those in a crisis are disgraceful in the UK. Unless you're running the streets naked claiming to be Jesus and jumping through traffic you're not really seen as priority. They focus more on psychotic patients here, at least, if you are depressed and tell someone you're headed to the cliffs you'll just be told to phone a helpline, it's not until someone actually clearly attempts and is caught in the act that they start to listen. Young people know this too. This is why we have so many self harming at a young age. They are literally crying out for someone to help them. Th way they see it is, if i have no cuts on my wrists etc I won't be listened to. That needs to change. Young persons and young adults mental healtj.

The main thing though, that bothers me... is statistics. You see they follow it like rule of thumb. If you are a male aged between 16-24 (or whatever it is) vs a female age 41, the male is statistically more likely to CTB based on history so priority goes to them. What i'm trying to say is, they try put you into categories and assess risk that way, instead of listening to the patients. They treat some depressed patients as if they have munchasen or are somehow crying wolf. The risk assessments they do on community (and) inpatients are again based on statistic. Risk panels and the like.
I was once offered a long term treatment inpatient but it actually took 47 overdoses , and eventual coma and disability/injury for them to even blimmin listen to me. I wasn't crying for help i was serious but in my eyes it was too late. I shouldn't have even attempted twice if they had helped me in time, when I was at the gp every fortnight begging for help. This was a long time ago anyway. I could rant all day about mental health services and what i've seen them do to my friends who CTB , and myself, and in general how awful they are. They get away with murder quite literally. Look all the coroner inquests it doesn't matter what the psychiatrist or mental health nurse says or didn't do

Here in the local emergency department i can't tell you how many people have gone in to see the psychiatric emergency teams, told them they are jumping from beachy head, are left to go and then go jump off within hours. Like seriously. Why would they let someone go, again, stigma surrounding the belief that if someone is willingly going to seek help they can't be 100% intent, they must want saving -- wrong wrong wrong.
Ok this will turn into a book i'll wrap it up.. lol

You think that someone else can make you feel a motivation in life? What motivates a lot of us is the thought that we are doing what we want to. Do you want to be told what to do? That is communist. A positive change will come from within. Nobody is going to help you.

Do you stand for freedom? If is why insist that they should hold people in psych wards against their will?

Yes the system is terrible.

Play the rules to your advantage.

Forget about the injustice until you can bring change with influence.

Why would random people care about your well being and spirit when they are taught that there is something wrong with you? It is a natural human instinct to concentrate good genes for the community.

I recommend telling yourself you have control of your life, the life and death part, which will give you confidence and make you feel like you are leading your own life.

You are asking for someone else to lead your life for you. That is submissive and makes you vulnerable. Maybe you want to find a partner who can do that for you.

People only give when they expect to get something back.

They only get something back when they get their paycheck.

I recommend acting like you have a lot of self respect and are better than people in order for them to care about you enough to listen to you. But let them ask questions, don't come across as needy until they really get close to you.

They did not get into the psych ward profession to help people. They did it because they had limited options, most likely having psychology degree.

People have told me they are trapped in the profession. They convince themselves that they are helping half the people, but really they are just helping them feel dead inside, when they turn off their emotion and self respect. That is why some people say the drugs help.

Some of the time, they feel like they should think about the reasons as to to why a person is there. That requires them to admit fault and accept guilt. People avoid that. Understanding how nothing is free in this world may point you to a better direction. People help when they think they will be rewarded. This is basis of freedom to do what is best for you.