[Article] Suicidal people especially the determined ones are actually quite intelligent and creative

[TAW122]

After being a part of SaSu for many years (almost half a decade since I was part of SaSu since mid 2018 even though I took over a year break from early 2021 until mid 2022), I have noticed many observations of people similar to us, including myself. I also noticed that there were lots of false perceptions about suicidal people that are often going around in mainstream circles. So with that said, this article will basically elaborate and show that we as SaSu members are actually more intelligent and creative than what others give us credit for. There are also many perceptions that are blatantly false about suicidal people and are often thrown around to discredit, undermine, or otherwise misrepresent us.

So to start things off, I want to say that most of us all come from different walks of life, some are from the healthcare, service, finance, science and technology, engineering, manufacturing, media, and many more. With different life experiences, skills, knowledge, abilities, predicaments, and more. Even just looking at the method discussions in SaSu as well as megathreads, some of us are actually very knowledgeable about the methods of choice due to doing the homework, studying (in depth) of the proper way to execute said method, and many more. Furthermore, even with the best preparations and all else done correctly, there is still chance of failure, either due to one's self-preservation instincts and/or unexpected variables that happen (either being saved too soon, execution of method done incorrectly and many more).

Some examples of these include like the SN method. The amount of meticulous planning and details when it comes to preparing for one's death via SN such information on exact measurements (also tailored for each individual because of their weight and other factors) for how much to take, and many more. Another such example is that even when it comes to firearms, there are even considerations of the kind of firearm, the caliber, where to aim, and so much more. If anything, this alone would be proof that we as suicidal people are not unintelligent nor are we ignorant, in fact, the very opposite. We even go to such great lengths to learn and understand things that we may otherwise not care much for, all for the sake of exiting as reliably as peacefully as possible. Some of us may even be well respected professionals who enjoyed a level of success in our careers and more.

In addition to this, we actually have suffered throughout most of our lives and know what we want despite all the gaslighting that mainstream society likes to throw at us. The false claims that we are mentally defective just because we don't look at life with the same toxic views that mainstream society would rather us see it as. If anything, it would be the masses that are brainwashed and indoctrinated from birth and upbringing that keeps buying the platitudes and ignorance that is circulated around our society. Then of course, there are some people in the masses who managed to break out of the programming and end up on SaSu. I personally have already done so well before SaSu (even before 2015) as I knew that life itself sucked and that existence was a burden, but I digress. For the people who do end up on SaSu, they manage to not only break free of the indoctrination, but become enlightened and also manage to find some camaraderie and safe space where they are able to discuss about the topic of suicide itself as well as reliable (and possibly peaceful) ways to exit their own suffering, thus making this community a necessity in a cesspit world that we live in.

In conclusion, I wrote this article in order to highlight as well as mention some of my observations and anecdotal experiences with the SaSu community. Furthermore, it is intended to also debunk and dis-spell some of the incorrect myths and misconceptions that many people outside of SaSu may have about us in general. I believe that only we ourselves know ourselves best and no other person(s), thus I wrote an article titled, "Bad argument: You are not a reliable witness (to your own circumstances)!" is an article mainly to disprove and debunk the false conception about suicidal people. Anyways, I hope this article will help some people on here and I am thankful to have this safe space to not only vent, but also discuss about ways to exit suffering reliably and preferably as peacefully as possible.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I really appreciate your posts TAW, in fact, I look forward to each one since it reminds me a little bit of SchopenhauerOnMars.

 

[Abyssal]

I wish there was a way to truly study this. I've always been under the impression but I'm suicidal due to some lack of intelligence, but that could very well be the way society has conditioned me to think.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

If there's a will, there's a way. There will always be a way.

 

[karmaisabitch]

True fact! Everyone died by suicide that I know was very smart, beautiful, and advanced academically!! None can argue here

 

[TAW122]

I really appreciate your posts TAW, in fact, I look forward to each one since it reminds me a little bit of SchopenhauerOnMars.

Since the last year or so, I took some influence and inspiration from SchopenhauerOnMars (aka existentialgoof on reddit), and he is really well spoken, more than I am. I think he even has fancier ways to expressing his points. I think me and him are very similar in our beliefs and the few differences would be that I'm perhaps more crude and blunt when expressing my points (more direct) and also slightly different on some nuances in my position, but ultimately, me and him are very similar and share the same common goal, which is to push for a world where the right to die is recognized and respected as a human right instead of the product of a defective mind or something that is always linked to a medical problem. The right to die and CTB is a personal choice and I think in our world, while there are more conversations about terminal illnesses and preventing suffering for those people, we still have a long way to go. It may even be beyond my lifetime, but we should continue to keep pushing for changes in legislation that will allow people to exercise their bodily autonomy and not be subject to unnecessary suffering.

I wish there was a way to truly study this. I've always been under the impression but I'm suicidal due to some lack of intelligence, but that could very well be the way society has conditioned me to think.

Yeah that would be helpful data. The only caveat I could see from this is how pro-lifers would still try to use said data or studies just to profile us and try to scope out signs in order to intervene, interfere, or otherwise frustrate our attempts to CTB to escape suffering.

If there's a will, there's a way. There will always be a way.

Yes that is true even to this present day. However, it would still be better for everyone involved if there wasn't as much a stigma and expansion for the right to die so people who really want to CTB wouldn't have to go and DIY, taking unnecessary risks, and possibly ending up with permanent injuries and collateral damage for unwilling participants.

True fact! Everyone died by suicide that I know was very smart, beautiful, and advanced academically!! None can argue here

I don't personally know anyone who explicitly died by suicide, but I know there may be situations where one's passing could be CTB but generally ruled as an accident or other cause.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I don't know if I agree with this post. For one, being suicidal generally isn't seen as something only unintelligent people go through. Quite the opposite actually, as suicidality, along with mental illness, is generally portrayed as something connected to intelligence. It's glorified and portrayed as something that mainly smart and creative people go through. In reality, being suicidal in of itself doesn't have any inherent bearing on intellect.

Along with that, wanting to ctb doesn't always equate to suffering. I wouldn't say that I've suffered that much in life (I have suffered. Everyone has. I just wouldn't say that I've suffered anymore than the average person) and I still plan on eventually ctbing. Even when my mental health started getting better I still wanted to ctb. The only thing that changed was why I planned on doing it. Ctbing can be as a result of a variety things outside of suffering, from it being done in protest, to it being done due to not finding aging to be appealing, to it being done to get out of something you don't want to eventually deal with. There have been several past instances of members on here who have talked about wanting to ctb due to reasons that don't involve suffering, from not wanting to participate in our capailist hellscape to just not finding existence to be something for them. There was even a member on here who talked about being evaluated several times and having most of the psychiatrists/psychologists find that they weren't mentally ill.

The mainstream media doesn't see being a member of SaSu, or being suicidal as a whole, as being a reflection of stupidity but rather portrays it as something only applies to very mentally ill and traumatize people. They also tend to portray a lot of SaSu members as evil trolls who get off to people ctbing. Being dumb isn't something that people generally tend to care about when talking about this site, let alone when it comes to most suicidal people in general.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Yes that is true even to this present day. However, it would still be better for everyone involved if there wasn't as much a stigma and expansion for the right to die so people who really want to CTB wouldn't have to go and DIY, taking unnecessary risks, and possibly ending up with permanent injuries and collateral damage for unwilling participants

Couldn't agree more. Perfectly stated.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Since the last year or so, I took some influence and inspiration from SchopenhauerOnMars (aka existentialgoof on reddit), and he is really well spoken, more than I am. I think he even has fancier ways to expressing his points. I think me and him are very similar in our beliefs and the few differences would be that I'm perhaps more crude and blunt when expressing my points (more direct) and also slightly different on some nuances in my position, but ultimately, me and him are very similar and share the same common goal, which is to push for a world where the right to die is recognized and respected as a human right instead of the product of a defective mind or something that is always linked to a medical problem. The right to die and CTB is a personal choice and I think in our world, while there are more conversations about terminal illnesses and preventing suffering for those people, we still have a long way to go. It may even be beyond my lifetime, but we should continue to keep pushing for changes in legislation that will allow people to exercise their bodily autonomy and not be subject to unnecessary suffering.


Yeah that would be helpful data. The only caveat I could see from this is how pro-lifers would still try to use said data or studies just to profile us and try to scope out signs in order to intervene, interfere, or otherwise frustrate our attempts to CTB to escape suffering.


Yes that is true even to this present day. However, it would still be better for everyone involved if there wasn't as much a stigma and expansion for the right to die so people who really want to CTB wouldn't have to go and DIY, taking unnecessary risks, and possibly ending up with permanent injuries and collateral damage for unwilling participants.


I don't personally know anyone who explicitly died by suicide, but I know there may be situations where one's passing could be CTB but generally ruled as an accident or other cause.

does SchopenhauerOnMars (aka existentialgoof post on here? hope they do or start.

Schopenhauer on Mars

Discourse on the ethics of birth and death.

schopenhaueronmars.com

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Since the last year or so, I took some influence and inspiration from SchopenhauerOnMars (aka existentialgoof on reddit), and he is really well spoken, more than I am. I think he even has fancier ways to expressing his points. I think me and him are very similar in our beliefs and the few differences would be that I'm perhaps more crude and blunt when expressing my points (more direct) and also slightly different on some nuances in my position, but ultimately, me and him are very similar and share the same common goal, which is to push for a world where the right to die is recognized and respected as a human right instead of the product of a defective mind or something that is always linked to a medical problem. The right to die and CTB is a personal choice and I think in our world, while there are more conversations about terminal illnesses and preventing suffering for those people, we still have a long way to go. It may even be beyond my lifetime, but we should continue to keep pushing for changes in legislation that will allow people to exercise their bodily autonomy and not be subject to unnecessary suffering.

I've only recently come across him on Reddit as well but I've found myself agreeing with him more and more especially when it comes to discussion around suicide, and you're right, he has a way of expressing himself that I find very concise and brilliant each time, never shys away from detail. I mean just for example, the two recent things he said below.

"The purpose of suicide prevention (i.e. banning all of the most effective and painless methods) is to keep people living in fear, because attempting suicide and ending up like this is so much worse than almost anything that you might be living through at the moment. If they can force you to live in fear, then that's all the better for you to be exploited."

"I just gave you an example. They banned legal access to Sodium Nitrite. This wasn't a chemical that was invented for the purpose of suicide. It's widely used for curing meats, but was discovered to be an effective suicide method as well. It was banned by the government because it was one of the more effective and less painful suicide methods that was available. Ipso facto - by banning legal avenues for procuring the substance, the government has made it more difficult to commit suicide - or "extra difficult". If that doesn't constitute making it "extra difficult", then I'm curious to know at what point of nanny state intervention into people's private lives and purchasing choices you would agree that they were making it "extra difficult". Would they have to ban rope? Ban sharp knives and all pointy objects? Ban bath plugs to make sure nobody can drown themselves in their own home? Have officials come round to everyone's house to make sure that all the fittings are ligature proof? Require everyone to have a GPS enabled microchip implanted in them monitoring their vital signs at all times, and summon an ambulance around to the location of people whose vital signs indicate that they might be attempting suicide?"

I admire your directness as well, I enjoy it each time you post.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I've only recently come across him on Reddit as well but I've found myself agreeing with him more and more especially when it comes to discussion around suicide, and you're right, he has a way of expressing himself that I find very concise and brilliant each time, never shys away from detail. I mean just for example, the two recent things he said below.

"The purpose of suicide prevention (i.e. banning all of the most effective and painless methods) is to keep people living in fear, because attempting suicide and ending up like this is so much worse than almost anything that you might be living through at the moment. If they can force you to live in fear, then that's all the better for you to be exploited."

"I just gave you an example. They banned legal access to Sodium Nitrite. This wasn't a chemical that was invented for the purpose of suicide. It's widely used for curing meats, but was discovered to be an effective suicide method as well. It was banned by the government because it was one of the more effective and less painful suicide methods that was available. Ipso facto - by banning legal avenues for procuring the substance, the government has made it more difficult to commit suicide - or "extra difficult". If that doesn't constitute making it "extra difficult", then I'm curious to know at what point of nanny state intervention into people's private lives and purchasing choices you would agree that they were making it "extra difficult". Would they have to ban rope? Ban sharp knives and all pointy objects? Ban bath plugs to make sure nobody can drown themselves in their own home? Have officials come round to everyone's house to make sure that all the fittings are ligature proof? Require everyone to have a GPS enabled microchip implanted in them monitoring their vital signs at all times, and summon an ambulance around to the location of people whose vital signs indicate that they might be attempting suicide?"

I admire your directness as well, I enjoy it each time you post.

good points that existentialgoof posted. do you have a link to the post ?

 

[Deleted member 65988]

good points that existentialgoof posted. do you have a link to the post ?

On Reddit.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Deleted member 65988]

The back and forth arguments he has with redditors on suicide are where it's at.

 

[TAW122]

I don't know if I agree with this post. For one, being suicidal generally isn't seen as something only unintelligent people go through. Quite the opposite actually, as suicidality, along with mental illness, is generally portrayed as something connected to intelligence. It's glorified and portrayed as something that mainly smart and creative people go through. In reality, being suicidal in of itself doesn't have any inherent bearing on intellect.

Along with that, wanting to ctb doesn't always equate to suffering. I wouldn't say that I've suffered that much in life (I have suffered. Everyone has. I just wouldn't say that I've suffered anymore than the average person) and I still plan on eventually ctbing. Even when my mental health started getting better I still wanted to ctb. The only thing that changed was why I planned on doing it. Ctbing can be as a result of a variety things outside of suffering, from it being done in protest, to it being done due to not finding aging to be appealing, to it being done to get out of something you don't want to eventually deal with. There have been several past instances of members on here who have talked about wanting to ctb due to reasons that don't involve suffering, from not wanting to participate in our capailist hellscape to just not finding existence to be something for them. There was even a member on here who talked about being evaluated several times and having most of the psychiatrists/psychologists find that they weren't mentally ill.

The mainstream media doesn't see being a member of SaSu, or being suicidal as a whole, as being a reflection of stupidity but rather portrays it as something only applies to very mentally ill and traumatize people. They also tend to portray a lot of SaSu members as evil trolls who get off to people ctbing. Being dumb isn't something that people generally tend to care about when talking about this site, let alone when it comes to most suicidal people in general.

I see and regarding the last paragraph, yes it seems like mainstream media still has this narrative of SaSu members being very mentally ill, trolls, or even just bad people, which is far from the truth. Many threads especially by RAS (RainAndSadness) are aimed to debunk the lies that the mainstream media and normies spew and perhaps over the years, as more people end up in predicaments that death would have been better than suffering relentless with no relief in the end would end up slowly changing the perception and eventually, the law when it comes to assisted suicide.

I've only recently come across him on Reddit as well but I've found myself agreeing with him more and more especially when it comes to discussion around suicide, and you're right, he has a way of expressing himself that I find very concise and brilliant each time, never shys away from detail. I mean just for example, the two recent things he said below.

"The purpose of suicide prevention (i.e. banning all of the most effective and painless methods) is to keep people living in fear, because attempting suicide and ending up like this is so much worse than almost anything that you might be living through at the moment. If they can force you to live in fear, then that's all the better for you to be exploited."

"I just gave you an example. They banned legal access to Sodium Nitrite. This wasn't a chemical that was invented for the purpose of suicide. It's widely used for curing meats, but was discovered to be an effective suicide method as well. It was banned by the government because it was one of the more effective and less painful suicide methods that was available. Ipso facto - by banning legal avenues for procuring the substance, the government has made it more difficult to commit suicide - or "extra difficult". If that doesn't constitute making it "extra difficult", then I'm curious to know at what point of nanny state intervention into people's private lives and purchasing choices you would agree that they were making it "extra difficult". Would they have to ban rope? Ban sharp knives and all pointy objects? Ban bath plugs to make sure nobody can drown themselves in their own home? Have officials come round to everyone's house to make sure that all the fittings are ligature proof? Require everyone to have a GPS enabled microchip implanted in them monitoring their vital signs at all times, and summon an ambulance around to the location of people whose vital signs indicate that they might be attempting suicide?"

I admire your directness as well, I enjoy it each time you post.

Thank you very much. I would also say some distinct differences between me and EG are that I wouldn't be as patient as he is when addressing the ignorant and even insulting arguments that many other pro-life/anti-choice redditors spew. I certainly would probably earn myself a Reddit ban, or even be inundated with "concern trolling" by many pro-lifers who seek to abuse the Reddit Cares function just to try to flood me or shut me down. Furthermore, I'd call them out and may even just insult them once they stop engaging in constructive arguments and debates and when they devolve into name calling, logical fallacies, insults, etc. Mainly the uncertainty of being tracked by Reddit, posts being censored, and dealing with concern trolling are the reasons I stay off Reddit because I cannot nor am I willing to handle all the cesspool of a mess on there. But major kudos for EG being able to and continuing to debate and put up with the bullshit that normies and many anti-choice redditors spew. He's basically doing a saint's work on that front and I applaud him for it.