Method GasMonkey Setup [Nitrogen SCBA]

[Alessa]

What purity was it advertised as?

3.5 (99,95 %) :(

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Tested my nitrogene and sadly... it's not pure enough. :( Need at least 2.8

So... if anyone knows a good source, where I could order, please let me know in a private conversation.
Its frustrating...

Did you test it with an oxygen meter?

What result did you get?

 

[Alessa]

Did you test it with an oxygen meter?

What result did you get?

Yes I did and it showed around 5,50.
So... may I ask you about a better source? Its devastating....

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Yes I did and it showed around 5 %.
So... may I ask you about a better source? Its devastating....

How did you test it?

Did you fill the bag with it, or did you test it directly, like with a flow restrictor, or holding it against the regulator outlet?


For discussing sources, we'd need to PM.

 

[Alessa]

How did you test it?

Did you fill the bag with it, or did you test it directly, like with a flow restrictor, or holding it against the regulator outlet?


For discussing sources, we'd need to PM.

I studied the megathread by... I guess it was vizzy (?) and build it up exactly like him with the EEBD hood.
And of course, feel free to PM me, I would really appreciate that!

 

[dancesponge]

Gasmonkey has helped me a lot but looks like he is having a well deserved break. Just want to summarise my steps and get some feedback:

Im using the SCBA system:

Confirm cylinder size and quantity (10l bottle is ample)
Confrim gas is pure (reputable retailers assurance is sufficient)
Confirm gas pressure
Sit down upright in a chair and strap your body. Be secure so that you won't fall over when black out. Do not lie down. A few final twitches are possible but convulsions are unlikely.
Put the mask on. Check to make sure its properly sealed.
Open the cylinder's valve.
Take a deep breath of air and hold your breath.
Insert the demand valve into the mask.
Hold breath and Pre-fill mask (pressing the front black button for 1 second). It pumps at 400 LPM when pressed full. If you press longer gas will simply flow through the mask escaping through the exhalation valve.
Insert wrists into the straps/ropes (not really necessary)
Exhale as completely as possible and empty your lungs
Take a deep breath of Nitrogen. Relax and breathe slowly, calmly and deeply. A lot of people don't notice anything, they just black out, but symptoms may include tingling in my hands, dizziness and disorientation (perhaps like a sports concussion), gray visions around the edges.
With SCBA you breathe a guaranteed 100% pure gas from the get-go with absolutely zero air/oxygen, the time to lose consciousness will be under 20 second with death to follow within 5-10 minutes.



Also, am I right in that the hood demands a constant flow of Nitrogen, but the SCBA mask via the demand value will only use enough nitrogen from the tank to maintain100% saturation?

So I open the cylnder and my SCBA will fill with 100% nitro. I will breathe out Co2 and the cylnder will replace it immediately.

When my breathing becomes shallow the mask will still maintain 100% full with nitro but do so slowly. Once Im dead and no longer expelling co2 the mask will be full with nitro but the cylnder will not be emptying.

Conversely, with the hood method the cylnder will be constantly emptying.

Is this accurate?

Gasmonkey said: "Yeah the demand valve maintains a positive pressure inside the mask, just using the necessary gas.|

I'm not an expert (not a lot of living experts, I suppose). All that your wrote adds up with what I've learned.

 

[pphinquiry]

Hi All,

This is a schedule message so if you are seeing this, then I have caught my bus via a SCBA setup gasmonkey helped me put together a few months ago (not in person help, just through DM). I was very on the fence in regards to writing this because I have no interest in encouraging anyone else to do anything. That being said, after over two months of setup and practice I have decided to write this post as I think its possible that people will screw this setup up and maybe even hurt themselves without the information I am posting and I want to prevent that. There is a lot to go over here, I tried to make it as clear as possible, it may require reading multiple times.

I will not be checking in on this thread or following up unless something goes wrong in which case I will follow up on the thread if I'm able.

I am in the US and everything that I'm writing in regards to specific gear is America specific although the general principles apply regardless.

There is some information below regarding an alternate setup which I think is viable that uses a flexible line instead of direct tank to SCBA adapter. I ultimately did not use this because of a last second leak but I wanted to share what I had learned.

My big major recommendation and I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND THIS: get a full working scba setup with an oxygen tank and practice using your setup with oxygen many times before you attempt with inert gas. I know for a fact I would have majorly screwed this up if I had not had practice runs with oxygen. It took many rounds of tweaking.

- figuring out how to get the mask tight enough was a challenge, the straps are very finicky. I actually damaged the buckles from pulling too hard in the wrong way at first and had to order new buckles.

- making sure your physical setup is secure. the chair won't fall over. You can reach everything. I modified a table off amazon so I could bolt the scba system to it so it wouldn't move around. You don't want your practice setup to be different from your final setup in any way besides which tank you use because this introduces potential failure.

- learning how to use the demand valve

- I had to dissasemble the scba to seperate the parts I wanted from the body harness which you will not need. This required a set of hex wrenches and a some playing around.

- I shaved off all of my hair and beard on the last day so I could get a better seal on the mask. This is probably a good idea.

- I would budget an absolute minimum of a week to get this all setup but probably more to get all of the adapters sorted and everything tested..

- I recommend at least 3-5 full dress rehearsal practice runs. There were things for me that I was still figuring out after 3-5 practice runs. I feel very confident now though.

YOU NEED TO CAREFULLY CHECK YOUR SETUP FOR LEAKS

I needed to tighten the cga580 side pretty tight with a wrench to get it to stop leaking but apparently you can also damage it from overtightening so do a little bit at a time. You can spray windex or put soapy water on the joints to test for leaks. If you see bubbles, that is gas escaping and you have a leak.

Protocol for leak testing:

1) Apply soapy water to joints
2) Hold lock button on SCBA demand valve, open tank valve quickly until you see your SCBA pressurized and then immediately close tank valve. The watch to see if your system holds pressure by the soap bubbling or if it is slowly losing pressure at the SCBA gauge. Within a minute or two, if you haven't lost any pressure you are good.

DO NOT USE THREADTAPE ON CGA CONNECTIONS. This can cause leaks and failure. Only use teflon tape on npt connections.

I also got an "anti gravity" reclining chair and some luggage straps to create a stable chair that I could strap into to avoid falling off the chair or knocking it over after passing out.

I didn't mess with any of the gas testers and pulse monitors or anything like that that gasmonkey used. Use your own judgement on what is important to you.

You do not need a nitrogen regulator on the tank side, just FYI.

I was able to pick up a "Q sized" (~80cu ft at 2000 PSIG) nitrogen tank from a local supplier with no issues. I originally got a 40cu ft tank which I think is more than sufficient. However I had to waste nitrogen a few times to test the system and ended up being worried about supply. So I went back and switched to the Q sized(80cuft) tank which is completely overkill but made me feel secure. It's heavy but could easily be lifted and carried up a stairset with two hands. I'd estimate about 40 lbs but that is very rough.

I said it was for cold brew coffee just to make conversation but they didn't seem to care. This was their food grade nitrogen which legally only needs to be 97% I believe to be food grade but they said they fill their food grade and medical grade out of the same fill station so they said in practice this is something like 99.99% pure alhtough they don't certify it at that grade. I feel much better being over 99 as any excess oxygen in the nitrogen could slow time till death down and also potentially give you a sensation of suffocating. And tbh, I think I would have raised eyebrows getting medical grade if my story was about cold brew coffee.

I recommend to get somekind of carrying caddy for the tank but I just bungie corded mine to the leg of a table and it felt very secure.

Note, even if you buy your own n2 tank, they will switch it out for another one when you but it and if you buy one from china off amazon, they won't take it at all so just get the tank from the gas supplier at time of purchase. Don't try to purchase your own.

This setup took me a lot of trial and error and running around to welding suppliers and waiting on customer support lines. However with the information I provide you hopefully you won't have to make as many mistakes as I did. One nice thing about CTB is you aren't too worried about racking up credit card debt :) However it was still a lot of time on phone calls and looking through welding supplier websites and such and so if you follow my setup you should be able to mostly avoid that.

The setup I am using is a 2,216 psi SCBA system. There was a "low pressure" and a "high pressure" version of this system. The 2216 PSI is the low pressure version. gasmonkey recommended I go with this direction because there was only an adapter for cga 346(lower pressure air) to cga 580 (nitrogen) but no adapter for cga 347 (higher pressure air) to nitrogen (cga 580). Whatever scba system you get, you need to know the cga type of the scba regulator side to get working adapters as no system is going to connect to a non air tank by default.

I would still recommend going with lower pressure where possible just a general principle because this is heavy duty industrial equiptment and higher pressure means more potential problems or risk of injury. Also given that I had issues with leaks with the pigtail, it's still probably best to stick with the cga-580 / cga-346 adapter setup which will only work with a low pressure system.

All in all I think I spent about $3k on this setup but you could do it for a fraction of that with used equipment.

Ultimately I ditched the setup I write about below under the header with npt pigtails because I could not get the pigtail to cga-580 connection to stop leaking and had to scramble at the last second to find a new setup. By switching to a "Q" (~80cuft) nitrogen tank, I was able to get the tank valve at table height and plug it directly into the scba via that cga-580 / cga-346 adapter. Basically what is in gasmonkey's pictures. I'm still leaving the below information in case someone also wants to go down the flexible line connection route.


Original setup I was trying with a flexible braided 1/4 npt line:
==============================

As I will detail below, I was using a sligthly more complicated setup then just plugging a nitrogen tank into the scba with a single adapter which you can do via cga-346 -> cga-580, because in this setup you make nitrogen and air fully interchangeable with an extension line. However it also has some usability advantages once you get it setup. Basically the advantage is that the physical placement tank and SCBA gear can be seperated and is more flexible. The basic way to do this is not to deal with cga to cga adapters at all but to convert everything to a more common interface: 1/4 npt female via a braided stainless steel line (these braided lines are called pigtails). This means that no matter what cga type you have on either end, you find a cga adapter from that thing to 1/4 npt male and then connect those to the braided line which has 1/4 npt female on both ends. One major advantage here is that this line is flexible so you don't have to hook the scba regulator directly to the tank, you can have them in different locations based on your setup. Google PF2-4-18 for an example of one of these pigtails. This also means that you could make a cga 347 system or probably almost any cga type work with this system.

Airgas - WESPF2-4-18 - Western SS 1 Outlet 18" Stainless Steel Pigtail

Western® 18 Stainless Steel Flexible Pigtail has a 1/4 female NPT brass end connections. Oxygen gas pigtail operates at a maximum pressure of 3000 psig and a minimum bend radius of 3.

www.airgas.com

One note, as far as I can tell, it is literally impossible to make this pigtail setup work without converting to npt. The required adapters do not exist, or at least I could not find them.

So in my setup I had cga 346 male outlet on my air tank, cga 580 female outlet on the nitrogen tank and cga 346 female on the scba reg. So I needed three adapters to make everything share the common interface of npt 1/4 male (which connects to npt 1/4 female pigtail):

https://www.idealspectroscopy.com/CGA-346-Gas-Regulator-Inlet/pp/P109513 : adapt the air tank cga 346 male to npt 1/4 male
https://www.aplusmarine.com/Nut-Nipple-for-CGA-580-Helium-Handtight-Connector_p_1077.html : adapt the nitrogen tank cga 580 female to npt 1/4 male
https://arc-zone.com/adapter-1-4-cg...fabac3c77acd26f491510dd5f94a06570d6c819846581 : adapt the scba reg cga 346 female to 1/4 npt male
https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?PNUM::1:UNDEF:OR:PF2-4-18 pigtail

now you can use the pigtail (braided high pressure line) which is 1/4 npt female on both ends to connect the scba to either the nitrogen or the air.

I looked for a cga 580 to cga 580 pigtail or cga 580 to cga 346 pigtail but as far as I could tell, no version of this exists which would be usable for this setup. And once you realize you can convert everything to 1/4 npt there is no reason to do that anyway.

So to summarize the biggest points:

1) Setup a system you can test. Budget time and money to get everything setup. Do at least 3-5 full dress rehearsal practice runs. Do not expect that you can order a kit online and it will arrive and you just press a button. I think doing your first run with real nitrogen would be a big mistake and have an extremely elevated risk of failure and even maybe injury. This is my real reason for writing this is to prevent that.

2) Leak test carefully

3) Think about how it could fail. If the tank or chair falls over etc. If the gas runs out too early.


I'll listen to this when I go

 

[Tears in Rain]

Hi All,

This is a schedule message so if you are seeing this, then I have caught my bus via a SCBA setup gasmonkey helped me put together a few months ago (not in person help, just through DM). I was very on the fence in regards to writing this because I have no interest in encouraging anyone else to do anything. That being said, after over two months of setup and practice I have decided to write this post as I think its possible that people will screw this setup up and maybe even hurt themselves without the information I am posting and I want to prevent that. There is a lot to go over here, I tried to make it as clear as possible, it may require reading multiple times.

I will not be checking in on this thread or following up unless something goes wrong in which case I will follow up on the thread if I'm able.

I am in the US and everything that I'm writing in regards to specific gear is America specific although the general principles apply regardless.

There is some information below regarding an alternate setup which I think is viable that uses a flexible line instead of direct tank to SCBA adapter. I ultimately did not use this because of a last second leak but I wanted to share what I had learned.

My big major recommendation and I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND THIS: get a full working scba setup with an oxygen tank and practice using your setup with oxygen many times before you attempt with inert gas. I know for a fact I would have majorly screwed this up if I had not had practice runs with oxygen. It took many rounds of tweaking.

- figuring out how to get the mask tight enough was a challenge, the straps are very finicky. I actually damaged the buckles from pulling too hard in the wrong way at first and had to order new buckles.

- making sure your physical setup is secure. the chair won't fall over. You can reach everything. I modified a table off amazon so I could bolt the scba system to it so it wouldn't move around. You don't want your practice setup to be different from your final setup in any way besides which tank you use because this introduces potential failure.

- learning how to use the demand valve

- I had to dissasemble the scba to seperate the parts I wanted from the body harness which you will not need. This required a set of hex wrenches and a some playing around.

- I shaved off all of my hair and beard on the last day so I could get a better seal on the mask. This is probably a good idea.

- I would budget an absolute minimum of a week to get this all setup but probably more to get all of the adapters sorted and everything tested..

- I recommend at least 3-5 full dress rehearsal practice runs. There were things for me that I was still figuring out after 3-5 practice runs. I feel very confident now though.

YOU NEED TO CAREFULLY CHECK YOUR SETUP FOR LEAKS

I needed to tighten the cga580 side pretty tight with a wrench to get it to stop leaking but apparently you can also damage it from overtightening so do a little bit at a time. You can spray windex or put soapy water on the joints to test for leaks. If you see bubbles, that is gas escaping and you have a leak.

Protocol for leak testing:

1) Apply soapy water to joints
2) Hold lock button on SCBA demand valve, open tank valve quickly until you see your SCBA pressurized and then immediately close tank valve. The watch to see if your system holds pressure by the soap bubbling or if it is slowly losing pressure at the SCBA gauge. Within a minute or two, if you haven't lost any pressure you are good.

DO NOT USE THREADTAPE ON CGA CONNECTIONS. This can cause leaks and failure. Only use teflon tape on npt connections.

I also got an "anti gravity" reclining chair and some luggage straps to create a stable chair that I could strap into to avoid falling off the chair or knocking it over after passing out.

I didn't mess with any of the gas testers and pulse monitors or anything like that that gasmonkey used. Use your own judgement on what is important to you.

You do not need a nitrogen regulator on the tank side, just FYI.

I was able to pick up a "Q sized" (~80cu ft at 2000 PSIG) nitrogen tank from a local supplier with no issues. I originally got a 40cu ft tank which I think is more than sufficient. However I had to waste nitrogen a few times to test the system and ended up being worried about supply. So I went back and switched to the Q sized(80cuft) tank which is completely overkill but made me feel secure. It's heavy but could easily be lifted and carried up a stairset with two hands. I'd estimate about 40 lbs but that is very rough.

I said it was for cold brew coffee just to make conversation but they didn't seem to care. This was their food grade nitrogen which legally only needs to be 97% I believe to be food grade but they said they fill their food grade and medical grade out of the same fill station so they said in practice this is something like 99.99% pure alhtough they don't certify it at that grade. I feel much better being over 99 as any excess oxygen in the nitrogen could slow time till death down and also potentially give you a sensation of suffocating. And tbh, I think I would have raised eyebrows getting medical grade if my story was about cold brew coffee.

I recommend to get somekind of carrying caddy for the tank but I just bungie corded mine to the leg of a table and it felt very secure.

Note, even if you buy your own n2 tank, they will switch it out for another one when you but it and if you buy one from china off amazon, they won't take it at all so just get the tank from the gas supplier at time of purchase. Don't try to purchase your own.

This setup took me a lot of trial and error and running around to welding suppliers and waiting on customer support lines. However with the information I provide you hopefully you won't have to make as many mistakes as I did. One nice thing about CTB is you aren't too worried about racking up credit card debt :) However it was still a lot of time on phone calls and looking through welding supplier websites and such and so if you follow my setup you should be able to mostly avoid that.

The setup I am using is a 2,216 psi SCBA system. There was a "low pressure" and a "high pressure" version of this system. The 2216 PSI is the low pressure version. gasmonkey recommended I go with this direction because there was only an adapter for cga 346(lower pressure air) to cga 580 (nitrogen) but no adapter for cga 347 (higher pressure air) to nitrogen (cga 580). Whatever scba system you get, you need to know the cga type of the scba regulator side to get working adapters as no system is going to connect to a non air tank by default.

I would still recommend going with lower pressure where possible just a general principle because this is heavy duty industrial equiptment and higher pressure means more potential problems or risk of injury. Also given that I had issues with leaks with the pigtail, it's still probably best to stick with the cga-580 / cga-346 adapter setup which will only work with a low pressure system.

All in all I think I spent about $3k on this setup but you could do it for a fraction of that with used equipment.

Ultimately I ditched the setup I write about below under the header with npt pigtails because I could not get the pigtail to cga-580 connection to stop leaking and had to scramble at the last second to find a new setup. By switching to a "Q" (~80cuft) nitrogen tank, I was able to get the tank valve at table height and plug it directly into the scba via that cga-580 / cga-346 adapter. Basically what is in gasmonkey's pictures. I'm still leaving the below information in case someone also wants to go down the flexible line connection route.


Original setup I was trying with a flexible braided 1/4 npt line:
==============================

As I will detail below, I was using a sligthly more complicated setup then just plugging a nitrogen tank into the scba with a single adapter which you can do via cga-346 -> cga-580, because in this setup you make nitrogen and air fully interchangeable with an extension line. However it also has some usability advantages once you get it setup. Basically the advantage is that the physical placement tank and SCBA gear can be seperated and is more flexible. The basic way to do this is not to deal with cga to cga adapters at all but to convert everything to a more common interface: 1/4 npt female via a braided stainless steel line (these braided lines are called pigtails). This means that no matter what cga type you have on either end, you find a cga adapter from that thing to 1/4 npt male and then connect those to the braided line which has 1/4 npt female on both ends. One major advantage here is that this line is flexible so you don't have to hook the scba regulator directly to the tank, you can have them in different locations based on your setup. Google PF2-4-18 for an example of one of these pigtails. This also means that you could make a cga 347 system or probably almost any cga type work with this system.

Airgas - WESPF2-4-18 - Western SS 1 Outlet 18" Stainless Steel Pigtail

Western® 18 Stainless Steel Flexible Pigtail has a 1/4 female NPT brass end connections. Oxygen gas pigtail operates at a maximum pressure of 3000 psig and a minimum bend radius of 3.

www.airgas.com

One note, as far as I can tell, it is literally impossible to make this pigtail setup work without converting to npt. The required adapters do not exist, or at least I could not find them.

So in my setup I had cga 346 male outlet on my air tank, cga 580 female outlet on the nitrogen tank and cga 346 female on the scba reg. So I needed three adapters to make everything share the common interface of npt 1/4 male (which connects to npt 1/4 female pigtail):

https://www.idealspectroscopy.com/CGA-346-Gas-Regulator-Inlet/pp/P109513 : adapt the air tank cga 346 male to npt 1/4 male
https://www.aplusmarine.com/Nut-Nipple-for-CGA-580-Helium-Handtight-Connector_p_1077.html : adapt the nitrogen tank cga 580 female to npt 1/4 male
https://arc-zone.com/adapter-1-4-cg...fabac3c77acd26f491510dd5f94a06570d6c819846581 : adapt the scba reg cga 346 female to 1/4 npt male
https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?PNUM::1:UNDEF:OR:PF2-4-18 pigtail

now you can use the pigtail (braided high pressure line) which is 1/4 npt female on both ends to connect the scba to either the nitrogen or the air.

I looked for a cga 580 to cga 580 pigtail or cga 580 to cga 346 pigtail but as far as I could tell, no version of this exists which would be usable for this setup. And once you realize you can convert everything to 1/4 npt there is no reason to do that anyway.

So to summarize the biggest points:

1) Setup a system you can test. Budget time and money to get everything setup. Do at least 3-5 full dress rehearsal practice runs. Do not expect that you can order a kit online and it will arrive and you just press a button. I think doing your first run with real nitrogen would be a big mistake and have an extremely elevated risk of failure and even maybe injury. This is my real reason for writing this is to prevent that.

2) Leak test carefully

3) Think about how it could fail. If the tank or chair falls over etc. If the gas runs out too early.


I'll listen to this when I go

If things went to plan for you, I hope you found the peace you were looking for.

 

[WatusiMuchacho]

Here's a recent article on the subject of Nitrogen Hypoxia -based death sentences. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/us/nitrogen-execution-alabama-kenneth-smith.html

 

[dancesponge]

Do I have to keep the Nitrogen cylinder standing up or can it be laying down?
This would eliminate che chances of it falling over.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Do I have to keep the Nitrogen cylinder standing up or can it be laying down?
This would eliminate che chances of it falling over.

They usually recommend to store the gas cylinders in an upright position. Plus, I think when in use, the cylinder valve works better when not laying and faced upwards. But I'm not sure would it make much of a difference to lay it horizontally for a short period of time.


Maybe secure it upright to a chair, or pin it against the wall with something, to keep it upright.

 

[bored2death]

orientation shouldn't matter, unless the tank is very nearly empty at atmosphere. when diving, tanks are fine in all orientations (the pressure inside > the ambient pressure, so gas will escape if the regulator allows)

 

[joeschmo]

Hey folks, I am new here, and I had some questions if you don't mind:

1. I live in the U.S., so my tank and nitrogen-to-air adapter must be a different one. How do I find out which adapter I need? Did anyone in the U.S. find the correct setup nitrogen/adapter/mask/etc setup?
2. Gasmonkey mentioned that full nitrogen tanks can be bought online and shipped to avoid the hassle of telling a story at the physical location where gas tanks are bought. But I cannot find any online seller that sells full *medical grade* nitrogen tanks delivered to a U.S. state. Has anyone found any sellers?
3. How large does the tank have to be (i.e. how many liters and bars)?
4. "Pphinquiry" above said "You do not need a nitrogen regulator on the tank side", this confused me. I thought gasmonkey used an air-to-nitrogen adapter attached to a regulator? How do you reduce the massive pressure from the cylinder to a breathable level?

 

[Tears in Rain]

1. I live in the U.S., so my tank and nitrogen-to-air adapter must be a different one. How do I find out which adapter I need? Did anyone in the U.S. find the correct setup nitrogen/adapter/mask/etc setup?

From what @GasMonkey said on the inert gas megathread, there are two types of SCBA gear regulator connections in the U.S.: CGA346 and CGA347. Only the CGA346 version has an adapter available at the time he posted- "air-to-nitrogen adapter (CGA-346 to CGA-580)".

I don't know how easy it is to find the adapter. Google search the above, or search "Western # 830 Cylinder Adapter CGA-580 To CGA-346".


So, if there is still no adapter available for a SCBA CGA347/4500/5500p.s.i. regulator in the U.S., then you have to get the SCBA CGA346 regulator setup.(2216 psi).

In the US you need a 2216 psi SCBA which has a CGA-346 connector that can be connected to a Nitrogen cylinder using an air-to-nitrogen adapter (CGA-346 to CGA-580). You can either get it new or search in eBay for cheaper equipment (lots of folks have done that for saving money). I can't post direct sources here since is against the forum's rules.
View attachment 117203

The 4500 and 5500 psi SCBAs won't work because they use a different connection (CGA-347) and there isn't any air-to-nitrogen adapter for that in any shop afaik.​

View attachment 117204

For the Nitrogen cylinder lately most US members are getting it from AirGas.

1. 2. Gasmonkey mentioned that full nitrogen tanks can be bought online and shipped to avoid the hassle of telling a story at the physical location where gas tanks are bought. But I cannot find any online seller that sells full *medical grade* nitrogen tanks delivered to a U.S. state. Has anyone found any sellers?

I'm not from the U.S., but I've seen it mentioned that it was difficult to get nitrogen cylinders delivered there. People had better luck with argon delivery.

If collecting nitrogen, just say that you or a relative need the nitrogen for beer brewing, or welding. You may not be asked what you need it for.

3. How large does the tank have to be (i.e. how many liters and bars)?

Some people say a minimum of 600 litres, others say 1000litres. I would try and get at least 1000litres of compressed gas. Bar doesn't matter so much. People have gotten 5litre cylinders at 200 bar; 8 litre cylinders at 150 bar, etc.(40cu/ft is fine, =. ~1330 litres).

1. 4."Pphinquiry" above said "You do not need a nitrogen regulator on the tank side", this confused me. I thought gasmonkey used an air-to-nitrogen adapter attached to a regulator? How do you reduce the massive pressure from the cylinder to a breathable level?

You do not need a normal gas regulator on the tank side. You use a SCBA regulator, which are designed for SCBA gear:


SCBA regulator






Might as well post the EU and UK SCBA adapters here also:
German/certain EU countries adapter:






UK adapter:

 

[joeschmo]

From what @GasMonkey said on the inert gas megathread, there are two types of SCBA gear regulator connections in the U.S.: CGA346 and CGA347. Only the CGA346 version has an adapter available at the time he posted- "air-to-nitrogen adapter (CGA-346 to CGA-580)".

I don't know how easy it is to find the adapter. Google search the above, or search "Western # 830 Cylinder Adapter CGA-580 To CGA-346".


So, if there is still no adapter available for a SCBA CGA347/4500/5500p.s.i. regulator in the U.S., then you have to get the SCBA CGA346 regulator setup.(2216 psi).




I'm not from the U.S., but I've seen it mentioned that it was difficult to get nitrogen cylinders delivered there. People had better luck with argon delivery.

If collecting nitrogen, just say that you or a relative need the nitrogen for beer brewing, or welding. You may not be asked what you need it for.


Some people say a minimum of 600 litres, others say 1000litres. I would try and get at least 1000litres of compressed gas. Bar doesn't matter so much. People have gotten 5litre cylinders at 200 bar; 8 litre cylinders at 150 bar, etc.(40cu/ft is fine, =. ~1330 litres).


You do not need a normal gas regulator on the tank side. You use a SCBA regulator, which are designed for SCBA gear:

View attachment 130282
SCBA regulator

View attachment 130283

View attachment 130284

Thank you for all this information. This was really helpful.

Hopefully someone who has put together a U.S. version can show me his set-up and which parts specifically were bought and from what source, as that would make everything much easier.

But even if not, thanks for the help. I will do my research and get back to you if I have further questions.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Thank you for all this information. This was really helpful.

Hopefully someone who has put together a U.S. version can show me his set-up and which parts specifically were bought and from what source, as that would make everything much easier.

But even if not, thanks for the help. I will do my research and get back to you if I have further questions.

No problem.

Not many people go with the inert gas method compared to other methods like SN. Fewer again go with the SCBA method. It's expensive.
Also, because the SCBA gear is designed for the likes of firefighters and is specialized equipment, it probably isn't as easy to source as say SCUBA gear.

Not sure how many of the posters on the inert gas set-ups gallery who had a SCBA setup were from U.S.
On the inert gas megathread one SCBA mask and regulator brand was always mentioned:

US SCBA:
Drager 2216 psi PAS Lite
Drager FPS 7000(R56200)
CGA-580 to CGA-346 adapter
~2000$

Inert gas setups gallery. Show your setup

This thread is for showing your inert gas setup or other setups that you have seen (here or anywhere on the Internet). Post the name of the author/source, type of setup, gas used, and any other details that you want to add. Don't do any posts here that are not setups, this thread is only...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Chronosphere]

Sorry for stupid question, but how does these masks work? It releases gas somewhere? It won't just explode because of constant flow of gas?
It looks way more comfortable and reliable than just a plastic bag used in exit bags. Damn, I want this.

 

[thewalkingdread]

It looks way more comfortable and reliable than just a plastic bag used in exit bags. Damn, I want this.

Plastic bags are just fine.

They are a cheap, effective, acessible option... And they also offset the costs of an already expensive gas tank + regulator.

 

[joeschmo]

No problem.

Not many people go with the inert gas method compared to other methods like SN. Fewer again go with the SCBA method. It's expensive.
Also, because the SCBA gear is designed for the likes of firefighters and is specialized equipment, it probably isn't as easy to source as say SCUBA gear.

Not sure how many of the posters on the inert gas set-ups gallery who had a SCBA setup were from U.S.
On the inert gas megathread one SCBA mask and regulator brand was always mentioned:

Inert gas setups gallery. Show your setup

This thread is for showing your inert gas setup or other setups that you have seen (here or anywhere on the Internet). Post the name of the author/source, type of setup, gas used, and any other details that you want to add. Don't do any posts here that are not setups, this thread is only...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Thanks for the additional sources. It also reminded me of another question I had forgotten about.
@pphinquiry also mentioned that one should buy the whole setup with the straps that allow you to attach the cylinder to your back and all (just like the product you showed me: Drager 2216 psi PAS Lite). But why is it necessary? Can one not simply buy SCBA regulator like the one you have a picture of, without all the backstraps? It's 2k just for the setup, without the mask, so I thought avoiding an unnecessary component would be better, but if it's absolutely necessary then I'll go for it.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Sorry for stupid question, but how does these masks work? It releases gas somewhere? It won't just explode because of constant flow of gas?

The SCBA are on-demand systems, not continuous flow. The gas only flows into the mask when someone breathes in.

@pphinquiry also mentioned that one should buy the whole setup with the straps that allow you to attach the cylinder to your back and all (just like the product you showed me: Drager 2216 psi PAS Lite). But why is it necessary? Can one not simply buy SCBA regulator like the one you have a picture of, without all the backstraps?

Where do they say that? I only see the part where they have to disassemble the regulator from the harness. You don't need the harness, so if you can get the regulator without it, do.

- I had to dissasemble the scba to seperate the parts I wanted from the body harness which you will not need. This required a set of hex wrenches and a some playing around.

It's 2k just for the setup, without the mask, so I thought avoiding an unnecessary component would be better, but if it's absolutely necessary then I'll go for it.

@ztem probably meant it was ~$2,000 for the whole setup. He mentions regulator(Draeger 2216 psi Pas Lite ), mask(Draeger FPS 7000), and adapter; cylinder is another $100-$200.

Some have gotten it cheaper:

▪ Pack with regulator (with embedded LDV) + mask: 945 € (from Spain)
▪ Air-to-nitrogen adapter: 57 € (from Germany)
▪ Nitrogen 4.0 cylinder: 153 € (from Poland)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
▪ Total: 1155 €

 

[joeschmo]

The SCBA are on-demand systems, not continuous flow. The gas only flows into the mask when someone breathes in.


Where do they say that? I only see the part where they have to disassemble the regulator from the harness. You don't need the harness, so if you can get the regulator without it, do.




@ztem probably meant it was ~$2,000 for the whole setup. He mentions regulator(Draeger 2216 psi Pas Lite ), mask(Draeger FPS 7000), and adapter; cylinder is another $100-$200.

Some have gotten it cheaper:

"I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND THIS: get a full working scba setup with an oxygen tank and practice using your setup with oxygen many times before you attempt with inert gas".

My apologies, he didn't say it was necessary, only that it was seriously recommended for practice purposes.

 

[Tears in Rain]

"I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND THIS: get a full working scba setup with an oxygen tank and practice using your setup with oxygen many times before you attempt with inert gas".

My apologies, he didn't say it was necessary, only that it was seriously recommended for practice purposes.

I think he's just referring to trying out the mask, regulator, and adapter with an oxygen tank, to get used to the setup. I don't think they mean the back harness included.

I doubt many people who did the SCBA setup bothered with the oxygen tank testing. But I guess @pphinquiry found it very helpful, allowing to do practice runs and tweaking the setup.

 

[joeschmo]

I think he's just referring to trying out the mask, regulator, and adapter with an oxygen tank, to get used to the setup. I don't think they mean the back harness included.

I doubt many people who did the SCBA setup bothered with the oxygen tank testing. But I guess @pphinquiry found it very helpful, allowing to do practice runs and tweaking the setup.

Holy cow is it difficult to find all the necessary components online. I thought this would be a 5-10 days max project: order parts, wait for arrival, put it all together, and adios amigo. But noooo, life can't be that easy. .
Been looking for hours and still haven't found the scba low pressure regulator. eBay has some used stuff but used stuff scares me, too afraid it might be damaged and leaks.

I also re-read @pphinquiry's post and noticed that @pphinquiry said "Ultimately I ditched the setup I write about below under the header with npt pigtails…".
He did not use the setup he writes about? why didn't he just write about the setup he DID use? Wouldn't that have been the useful part for us U.S. apes? Or am I misunderstanding something??

One last thing: is it air-to-nitrogen adapter or nitrogen-to-air? Gasmonkey said air-to-nitrogen (CGA-364 to CGA-580), but you said "…or search "Western # 830 Cylinder Adapter CGA-580 To CGA-346", which is nitrogen-to-air. Just want to double check this one.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Holy cow is it difficult to find all the necessary components online. I thought this would be a 5-10 days max project: order parts, wait for arrival, put it all together, and adios amigo. But noooo, life can't be that easy. .
Been looking for hours and still haven't found the scba low pressure regulator. eBay has some used stuff but used stuff scares me, too afraid it might be damaged and leaks.

Yeah, given its very specific use(firefighters etc), it's probably totally geared to be sold to businesses as opposed to individuals. But people were definitely able to get it from U.S. sources. Unfortunately none of the SCBA people are on the site any longer.
It's an expensive set-up. Used gear is obviously going to be cheaper.

Oof at least a couple thousand. More? I think the mask was around 500 and the lung demand was a little less than 1500. The adapter was like 30-40 bucks. I still have to get my nitrogen cylinder which I expect at least another couple hundred. What else do I have to spend my money on, lol?
Meant to write this as a reply my bad!

Yeah SCBA in US/CAN is crazy expensive unless you go with the pressure-flow regulator route, but even then you'll have to find the right connection/adapter for the lung demand valve.


Thats pretty much it unless you want to buy additional (& optional) equipment like O2 & CO2 analyzer, pulse oximeter...

I also re-read @pphinquiry's post and noticed that @pphinquiry said "Ultimately I ditched the setup I write about below under the header with npt pigtails…".
He did not use the setup he writes about? why didn't he just write about the setup he DID use? Wouldn't that have been the useful part for us U.S. apes? Or am I misunderstanding something??

Yeah, @pphinquiry went with a very complicated set-up. It seems they did it to be able to flexibly switch between the nitrogen cylinder and the air cylinder they were practicing with. Also to potentially give a longer distance between the cylinder and mask, If that was needed for whatever reason.
But ultimately, like you said, they abandoned it due to leaks at the connections in the complicated set-up he was trying.

He went back to using the simpler SCBA mask>regulator>air-to-nitrogen adapter>Nitrogen cylinder, setup that others used.

One last thing: is it air-to-nitrogen adapter or nitrogen-to-air? Gasmonkey said air-to-nitrogen (CGA-364 to CGA-580), but you said "…or search "Western # 830 Cylinder Adapter CGA-580 To CGA-346", which is nitrogen-to-air. Just want to double check this one.

It's the same thing, said differently.
Air-to-nitrogen adapter = Nitrogen-to-air adapter. Male to male adapter.
The adapter allows a CGA346 air connection to be used on a nitrogen cylinder, and alternatively a nitrogen cylinder to be used with a CGA346 air connection.

 

[joeschmo]

Yeah, given its very specific use(firefighters etc), it's probably totally geared to be sold to businesses as opposed to individuals. But people were definitely able to get it from U.S. sources. Unfortunately none of the SCBA people are on the site any longer.
It's an expensive set-up. Used gear is obviously going to be cheaper.






Yeah, @pphinquiry went with a very complicated set-up. It seems they did it to be able to flexibly switch between the nitrogen cylinder and the air cylinder they were practicing with. Also to potentially give a longer distance between the cylinder and mask, If that was needed for whatever reason.
But ultimately, like you said, they abandoned it due to leaks at the connections in the complicated set-up he was trying.

He went back to using the simpler SCBA mask>regulator>air-to-nitrogen adapter>Nitrogen cylinder, setup that others used.


It's the same thing, said differently.
Air-to-nitrogen adapter = Nitrogen-to-air adapter. Male to male adapter.
The adapter allows a CGA346 air connection to be used on a nitrogen cylinder, and alternatively a nitrogen cylinder to be used with a CGA346 air connection.

So I have just found the lung demand valve and the mask, but I am not sure if it's the right equipment. I want to show you the images but am not sure if it's allowed here. Should I DM you the images?

I just want to ask you what questions I should ask them, like what else I should be worried about before placing the orders. Am thinking to call or email them with questions before placing the order.

Let me know if I can show the images here. The website name is of course blocked, but not sure if that is enough to avoid getting banned here.

I can edit this message and add the images.

 

[Tears in Rain]

So I have just found the lung demand valve and the mask, but I am not sure if it's the right equipment. I want to show you the images but am not sure if it's allowed here. Should I DM you the images?

You can show images as long as brands aren't shown or a website isn't linked.

I just want to ask you what questions I should ask them, like what else I should be worried about before placing the orders. Am thinking to call or email them with questions before placing the order.

Honestly, I don't know a huge amount about the SCBA setup, only stuff I picked up when I was previously going over the inert gas megathread.
The full setup contains mask, lung demand valve, and regulator.
I guess you need to make sure it's a CGA346, and not CGA347 regulator.
Here's the exact model @GasMonkey used:

SCBA setup with the Drager FPS 7000 mask is on another level.SCUBA setup is also junk but that Neptune III mask is what increases the quality of SCUBA setup and yes,between low-cost SCBA/SCUBA setup and hood setup,I will go with the hood.

@GasMonkey said:
The FPS 7000 is the best mask that I have tried. I have tested 4 different masks (MSA 3S-PS-MAXX, QG Marine (escMode), Dräger Panorama Nova, Dräger FPS 7000) and the FPS 7000 was the best one, with the least exhalation resistance (is a top-notch high-end firefighting mask).

For the regulator the PAS Lite is the best option because is the most light. The PSS 3000/4000/5000/7000 are also valid but they are much more expensive, heavier and with a bunch of extras that will take more work to disassemble. You have to extract the regulator from the backplate to reduce the weight as much as possible since that weight will be hanging from the air-to-nitrogen adapter so it must be as light as possible.

Part number of GasMonkey's FPS7000 mask wss 56200.
View attachment 119288
View attachment 119289

Let me know if I can show the images here. The website name is of course blocked, but not sure if that is enough to avoid getting banned here.

I can edit this message and add the images.

Yes, you can show images.


I remembered another post from @GasMonkey saying that the SCBA and SCUBA regulators are the same everywhere in the world except the U.S. So the SCUBA Din300 connection used in SCUBA diving regulators is the same as the SCBA Din#13 connection used in non-U.S SCBA gear.

So, another option for people in U.S. is to buy the U.S. SCUBA(not SCBA) adapter and buy potentially cheaper SCBA equipment abroad.
The U.S. SCUBA adapter has a Din300 connection on one side, which like I said above, is the same connection as the SCBA #13 connection.
So you could buy a SCBA regulator in Europe, (or anywhere outside U.S.), with a Din#13(full title:DIN 447-1 No 13) connection, and connect it to a U.S. SCUBA adapter.

It potentially makes things a bit more complicated, but it could work out a lot cheaper, especially if you could source the gear on cheaper Chinese websites (like Ali***a). You could potentially purchase the mask and regulator abroad, and use the U.S. SCUBA adapter, and U.S. Nitrogen cylinder. Just a potential option.

But that's just going on what @GasMonkey said:

The process is the same.

SCBA and SCUBA have the same components (regulator (1st stage), demand valve (2nd stage) and mask) and the regulator has the same connection (DIN #13) in all the world except in the US (SCBAs are CGA-346 & CGA-347 there), but SCBA is better because it maintains a positive pressure inside the mask (some millibars over ambient) which creates a perfect seal. SCBA is explicitly designed to protect you from the external gas, SCUBA is not (it's designed for underwater use).

An important detail is that basically all SCBA regulators work on 300bar (DIN 300), so you have to buy an air-to-nitrogen prepared for a 300 bar connector on the air-side. In SCUBA there are 200bar (DIN 200) regulators.
​

U.S. SCUBA adapters mentioned on SCUBA.megathread:

SCUBA inert gas megathread

That would be for a nitrogen cylinder, right? The one i posted a picture of is for a helium cylinder. The way i understand it, the helium side is measured for 200 bar, the regulator side for 300. That should work, i guess? Sorry, yeah, you're right. I'm not German, I just copied that adapter...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[joeschmo]

You can show images as long as brands aren't shown or a website isn't linked.


Honestly, I don't know a huge amount about the SCBA setup, only stuff I picked up when I was previously going over the inert gas megathread.
The full setup contains mask, lung demand valve, and regulator.
I guess you need to make sure it's a CGA346, and not CGA347 regulator.
Here's the exact model @GasMonkey used:





Yes, you can show images.


I remembered another post from @GasMonkey saying that the SCBA and SCUBA regulators are the same everywhere in the world except the U.S. So the SCUBA Din300 connection used in SCUBA diving regulators is the same as the SCBA Din#13 connection used in non-U.S SCBA gear.

So, another option for people in U.S. is to buy the U.S. SCUBA(not SCBA) adapter and buy potentially cheaper SCBA equipment abroad.
The U.S. SCUBA adapter has a Din300 connection on one side, which like I said above, is the same connection as the SCBA #13 connection.
So you could buy a SCBA regulator in Europe, (or anywhere outside U.S.), with a Din#13(full title:DIN 447-1 No 13) connection, and connect it to a U.S. SCUBA adapter.

It potentially makes things a bit more complicated, but it could work out a lot cheaper, especially if you could source the gear on cheaper Chinese websites (like Ali***a). You could potentially purchase the mask and regulator abroad, and use the U.S. SCUBA adapter, and U.S. Nitrogen cylinder. Just a potential option.

But that's just going on what @GasMonkey said:


U.S. SCUBA adapters mentioned on SCUBA.megathread:

SCUBA inert gas megathread

That would be for a nitrogen cylinder, right? The one i posted a picture of is for a helium cylinder. The way i understand it, the helium side is measured for 200 bar, the regulator side for 300. That should work, i guess? Sorry, yeah, you're right. I'm not German, I just copied that adapter...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Ok so the mask seems to be the exact same one as @GasMonkey mentioned (the part number he refers to is for the medium sized one, just fyi if anyone else ever wants to know).
But what about the lung demand valve (less than 1500 bucks is ok with me since it's easier to get), I attached images of the equipment and the description. But the description doesn't tell me much. So besides checking if it's a CGA-346, anything else that's important to ask? I also found the correct adapter, so that's all good as well.
EDIT: the info you gave me was plentiful, thank you. @GasMonkey made sure that we need a "P" coupling for the mask so it can attach to the demand valve (they both need to be "P"). So I know what questions to ask now.

Thanks again for all your help

 

[Tears in Rain]

Ok so the mask seems to be the exact same one as @GasMonkey mentioned (the part number he refers to is for the medium sized one, just fyi if anyone else ever wants to know).
But what about the lung demand valve (less than 1500 bucks is ok with me since it's easier to get), I attached images of the equipment and the description. But the description doesn't tell me much. So besides checking if it's a CGA-346, anything else that's important to ask? I also found the correct adapter, so that's all good as well.
EDIT: the info you gave me was plentiful, thank you. @GasMonkey made sure that we need a "P" coupling for the mask so it can attach to the demand valve (they both need to be "P"). So I know what questions to ask now.

Thanks again for all your help

The Pas Lite regulator is 2216 PSI, so that's a CGA346, which will fit the adapter ok.


One other thing. @GasMonkey was sometimes telling another poster, @befree, that SCBA was a better method than SCUBA. The reason they gave was because all new SCBA lung demand valve(LDV) masks are what's called 'positive pressure', whereas most SCUBA masks are 'negative pressure'.
According to him, the positive pressure masks are more sensitive to a person's breathing and provide a better seal. So when a person goes unconscious, and the breathing becomes more shallow, apparently the positive pressure masks will be more sensitive to this shallow breathing.@befree disagreed with him, saying SCUBA was just as good.

Anyways, this came to my mind because I remembered a post where @GasMonkey said that while all new SCBA LDV masks are positive pressure, some older ones are negative pressure. And these negative pressure ones had a blue button on the front of the lung demand valve. Whereas the newer positive pressure ones have a red button on the ldv.

That's a bargain!


View attachment 102349

I asked you about the color of the button because there is an old model of demand valve that works on Negative Pressure (which is not optimal to CTB) that has a BLUE button (instead of RED which is Positive Pressure).

That model is no longer in production (discontinued) but it can be seen on the second hand market. All new SCBA demand valves work on Positive Pressure.

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

Has anyone had success with purchasing a full tank of nitrogen on line? Can't find it anywhere but I know some of you have stated you were able to buy on line. It seems that this method with nitrogen is well known and concerned a welding supply store would ask questions. I see I can purchase...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The one in your linked picture seems to have a blue button on the LDV. Maybe ask them is it a positive pressure or negative pressure LDV. It seems the former is a better option.

Here's a sample one on eBay, that is positive pressure and has a red ldv button.




The negative pressure ones probably work fine too for ctb, they have worked for people using SCUBA masks before.
I honestly don't know enough about it, just passing on info from others.

Positive pressure versus negative pressure SCBA explained:

Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) Meaning

SCBA stands for Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus. Most SCBA devices are used in workplace safety contexts. Find out more about firefighter SCBAs...

www.osha.com

 

[joeschmo]

The Pas Lite regulator is 2216 PSI, so that's a CGA346, which will fit the adapter ok.


One other thing. @GasMonkey was sometimes telling another poster, @befree, that SCBA was a better method than SCUBA. The reason they gave was because all new SCBA lung demand valve(LDV) masks are what's called 'positive pressure', whereas most SCUBA masks are 'negative pressure'.
According to him, the positive pressure masks are more sensitive to a person's breathing and provide a better seal. So when a person goes unconscious, and the breathing becomes more shallow, apparently the positive pressure masks will be more sensitive to this shallow breathing.@befree disagreed with him, saying SCUBA was just as good.

Anyways, this came to my mind because I remembered a post where @GasMonkey said that while all new SCBA LDV masks are positive pressure, some older ones are negative pressure. And these negative pressure ones had a blue button on the front of the lung demand valve. Whereas the newer positive pressure ones have a red button on the ldv.

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

Has anyone had success with purchasing a full tank of nitrogen on line? Can't find it anywhere but I know some of you have stated you were able to buy on line. It seems that this method with nitrogen is well known and concerned a welding supply store would ask questions. I see I can purchase...

sanctioned-suicide.net

The one in your linked picture seems to have a blue button on the LDV. Maybe ask them is it a positive pressure or negative pressure LDV. It seems the former is a better option.

Here's a sample one on eBay, that is positive pressure and has a red ldv button.
View attachment 130448
View attachment 130450


The negative pressure ones probably work fine too for ctb, they have worked for people using SCUBA masks before.
I honestly don't know enough about it, just passing on info from others.

Positive pressure versus negative pressure SCBA explained:

Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) Meaning

SCBA stands for Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus. Most SCBA devices are used in workplace safety contexts. Find out more about firefighter SCBAs...

www.osha.com

That's great info you gave me!!!! Nice catch on the color of the button .

Did a little digging and turns out I simply clicked on the wrong product. The description doesn't mention positive pressure, but it does mention it on the product where you can only buy the lung demand valve itself (no hose) where it has a red button. So given that the whole PAS Lite 2216 setup has the red button as well, it must mean it's also positive pressure.

Two questions:
- the description on the LDV itself it says it delivers 550 liters per minute of air, isn't that way too much?
- since the LDV can be bought itself, do you think it's cheaper to just find the hose that attaches to it, or just buy the whole setup to be on the safe side and less hassle?

 

[Tears in Rain]

Two questions:
- the description on the LDV itself it says it delivers 550 liters per minute of air, isn't that way too much?

It's normal for those LDV valves to deliver high LPM. The ones I saw online said >400lpm. The gas only flows when you breathe in, so that 400lpm only flows into the mask in bursts, as you inhale. It's not a constant flow of 400/550 LPM.

- since the LDV can be bought itself, do you think it's cheaper to just find the hose that attaches to it, or just buy the whole setup to be on the safe side and less hassle?

The SCBA mask & regulator setup basically has 3 interlocking parts:
1) the mask
2) the lung demand valve (LDV) which reduces the gasflow at the second stage.
3)the pressure reducer/regulator hose( it has the pressure reducer on one end, a DIN connection on the other end, and also has a second hose attached to a pressure gauge.) This is usually sold attached to a harness. It reduces pressure at the 1st stage.

Here's the set-up with the regulator/reducer hose still connected to a harness. The Lung demand valve (LDV) is attached:


Here's what the above looks like when the regulator hose is removed from the harness, and is joined to the LDV. The mask is above it:



From what I've seen, the Draeger Pas lite setup is usually sold with the LDV included.
The setup usually looks like this:


The pressure reducer is No. 8 in the pic above, the gas pressure coming from the cylinder is first reduced here.(No. 7 is the 1st hose, going to the LDV(No.1); No. 5 is the 2nd hose, going to a pressure gauge(No. 4). No. 6 is a low pressure whistle. This whistle goes off when bar pressure goes below a certain point. You need to turn this off to avoid whistle potentially noising when you're unconscious).

Below is how the lung demand valve (LDV) is connected to the regulator hose:



As regards to whether these three items(mask, LDV, regulator/reducer hose) are sold separately, I honestly don't know, possibly. I think someone posted before that the mask is sometimes sold with the LDV included.(no regulator hose or harness included).

I'm not sure if the PAS lite regulator hose is ever sold separately from the harness, maybe it is 2nd hand. I presume it would be cheaper if you could get it without the harness alright.