Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Skal]

Assume as well that blood in his mask is from pulmonary barotrauma.
Helium like all inert gases, doesnt react or damage tissue.
The only other issue that I can think of is that the pressure was high enough and filled the lungs.

OP here. I was also thinking that the bleeding in the inert gas method was pressure-related. But now that I've experienced it myself, I'm less convinced because I didn't feel any pain in my lungs. If my lungs had actually ruptured, I would've felt massive pain in my chest, but that didn't happen. Also the mask had no problem expelling excess air/gas when I tested it beforehand. That said, I'm still not sure what caused it.
Possibly:
- inflammation of lung tissue caused by rapid oxygen release.
- negative pressure (25L/min is not enough when breathing hard)
- just a massive nosebleed

Yep: https://www.hermantheshocker.com/15-cases-of-helium-suicides/

Also it looks like using an exit bag could still cause bleeding based on this site.

 

[devils~advocate]

Maybe it is a nose bleed from some sort of pressure.

I think that website shows people using bags that are taped, in what appears to be tightly around their necks.
Some of that could be post mortem bleeding regardless of how death occurred, which is common unfortunately.
I had no idea, but there appears to be a lot of explanation on the internet about this. Its not something I wanted to know about.

I think that right now, the only systems that I know will work are the exit bag hood system, EEBD and scba.
The main issue is if the system will function well while someone is unconscious.
Exit bag hood - works from many examples, even those that are lower in craftsmanship.
EEBD /scba are high in craftsmanship and are made to function if someone is unconscious.

Edit: I wanted to apologize, I dont mean to explain away your situation.
Im sorry that this has happened to you.

 

[Skal]

Maybe it is a nose bleed from some sort of pressure.

I think that website shows people using bags that are taped, in what appears to be tightly around their necks.
Some of that could be post mortem bleeding regardless of how death occurred, which is common unfortunately.
I had no idea, but there appears to be a lot of explanation on the internet about this. Its not something I wanted to know about.

I think that right now, the only systems that I know will work are the exit bag hood system, EEBD and scba.
The main issue is if the system will function well while someone is unconscious.
Exit bag hood - works from many examples, even those that are lower in craftsmanship.
EEBD /scba are high in craftsmanship and are made to function if someone is unconscious.

Edit: I wanted to apologize, I dont mean to explain away your situation.
Im sorry that this has happened to you.

Please don't worry, I didn't take it that way at all.
It was horrible but I've had worse, kidney stones were much worse (and they lasted 3 months)
Next time I'm going to go with the standard exit bag and see what happens.

 

[devils~advocate]

Please don't worry, I didn't take it that way at all.
It was horrible but I've had worse, kidney stones were much worse (and they lasted 3 months)
Next time I'm going to go with the standard exit bag and see what happens.

Well i hope it was just a nose bleed and nothing more. Im not sure if you can tell or not the source.

I would say to practice with a cylinder of regular air and see what it does, in whatever system is used. There are so many variables, that using an air cylinder to test the system would be helpful to finding any issues.

I have practiced with a compressed cylinder filled with regular air to get the feel of the system I have.. This is in regards to a SCBA setup.
But I just have not practiced using the system while unconscious.
Im sure it would work fine, but Im afraid to do this, since the mask is a lot tighter. Even though they are used for saving unconscious people (i.e. like in a fire).

There are positive pressure scba systems out there. I have found and attained one off of the big international retail website.
It is composed of the mask and demand valve with hose. A regulator of some kind is needed to finish the system.
These systems of the regulator and demand valve make up the dual stage regulator system.

 

[Skal]

Well i hope it was just a nose bleed and nothing more. Im not sure if you can tell or not the source.

I would say to practice with a cylinder of regular air and see what it does, in whatever system is used. There are so many variables, that using an air cylinder to test the system would be helpful to finding any issues.

I have practiced with a compressed cylinder filled with regular air to get the feel of the system I have.. This is in regards to a SCBA setup.
But I just have not practiced using the system while unconscious.
Im sure it would work fine, but Im afraid to do this, since the mask is a lot tighter. Even though they are used for saving unconscious people (i.e. like in a fire).

There are positive pressure scba systems out there. I have found and attained one off of the big international retail website.
It is composed of the mask and demand valve with hose. A regulator of some kind is needed to finish the system.
These systems of the regulator and demand valve make up the dual stage regulator system.

May I ask what kind of practice you did?
For me, I used a septic air blower to send air to the mask at 23L/min. I tried breathing hard while wearing it and also sleeping for hours, and had no problems at that point (apart from my nose and mouth drying out from the constant airflow from the blower).

 

[devils~advocate]

May I ask what kind of practice you did?
For me, I used a septic air blower to send air to the mask at 23L/min. I tried breathing hard while wearing it and also sleeping for hours, and had no problems at that point (apart from my nose and mouth drying out from the constant airflow from the blower).

I have a scba system. I got a scba cylinder that is normally used with such a system, that is filled with normal air.
Scba is a two stage regulator system. As you know the cylinder has pressurized gas (air, gas, etc) Then there is a propietary regulator made for the system that attaches to the cylinder that drops the pressure down. Then from that regulator a hose goes to a lung demand valve at the mask. It is a kind of regulator as well. Basically It operates on positive pressure to keep the mask filled at all times but stops once it fills it up. Breathing in and out makes the demand valve function.

I have not practiced using this system while unconscious. Im cautious since the mask is tight and the cylinder only has enough air for about 30 minutes...I dont really want to use up the supply. Getting the scba cylinder filled with air is a bit of a hassle. The cylinder has to be tested by third party testing to see if the tank is structurally sound before anyone will fill it with air. This might not be the case in other parts of the world. Scuba diving shops are usually the places to get these cylinders filled under pressure.

So I have practiced while awake but making shallow and deep breathes. Somewhere in this forum, someone discusses how to adjust this demand valve or a part in the mask for the flow to trigger the valve.

 

[sm1the]

May I ask what kind of practice you did?
For me, I used a septic air blower to send air to the mask at 23L/min. I tried breathing hard while wearing it and also sleeping for hours, and had no problems at that point (apart from my nose and mouth drying out from the constant airflow from the blower).

Why are u using a septic system blower?
This is not the proper way as u probably already know.
I doubt the flow on this is accurate and consistent given what its used for.
Using equipment that is obviously not recommended is just inviting complications.
What you have done should be considered a non-method.
I don't mean to sound rude btw.
From what I have personally seen ,I haven't seen barotrauma type injuries from regular EB,EEBD(I dont check SCBA,SCUBA so I don't know) using the normally discussed equipment. Obviously I have seen only a tiny fraction of results from these so I can't be sure there were none.

 

[devils~advocate]

Why are u using a septic system blower?
This is not the proper way as u probably already know.
I doubt the flow on this is accurate and consistent given what its used for.
Using equipment that is obviously not recommended is just inviting complications.
What you have done should be considered a non-method.
I don't mean to sound rude btw.
From what I have personally seen ,I haven't seen barotrauma type injuries from regular EB,EEBD(I dont check SCBA,SCUBA so I don't know) using the normally discussed equipment. Obviously I have seen only a tiny fraction of results from these so I can't be sure there were none.

I believe he was using a blower as part of an elaborate setup that had timers to release gas into a respirator system.
He has a few photos and a diagram that show his system. Its quite ingenious.
The concern is where and how the bleeding started. Im not sure if he can tell where it started.
It might be a nose bleed or it might be something more.
My suggestion is to practice with a cylinder filled with regular air. This way one can tell how the system will function.
To practice with shallow breathes that simulate what happens during unconsciousness. And with strong erratic breathes as well.
Then to see how various flow rates affect all this.

 

[mysticall]

Thank you for the detailed instructions, friend!

 

[Skal]

The concern is where and how the bleeding started. Im not sure if he can tell where it started.
It might be a nose bleed or it might be something more.

I've had a headache since yesterday and thought it was just a cold. But then I noticed blood mixed in with my runny nose (since I'm not coughing, it's probably not from my lungs.)
Usually when I catch a cold, I get a cough and a sore throat, but this time I have none of those symptoms.
I also don't normally get nosebleeds when I have a cold. So this might not be just an ordinary cold.
If the headache and the blood in my nose are due to my failed attempt, then the bleeding during the attempt could've been a nosebleed.
Maybe my brain was damaged by low oxygen levels, which caused the nosebleed.

 

[Skal]

Why are u using a septic system blower?
This is not the proper way as u probably already know.
I doubt the flow on this is accurate and consistent given what its used for.
Using equipment that is obviously not recommended is just inviting complications.
What you have done should be considered a non-method.
I don't mean to sound rude btw.
From what I have personally seen ,I haven't seen barotrauma type injuries from regular EB,EEBD(I dont check SCBA,SCUBA so I don't know) using the normally discussed equipment. Obviously I have seen only a tiny fraction of results from these so I can't be sure there were none.

Septic blowers are designed to run 24/7, they have very tough motors.
As far as my tests go, it had no problem running for hours with no airflow fluctuation or stopping in the middle.
And as I said before, I haven't felt any lung pain or coughed up blood either, so I think a pressure injury is unlikely.

Well, physical tolerance varies from person to person. I heard that someone who attempted hanging almost lost their eyesight due to high pressure in their eyes. Some people got red dots all over their faces due to internal bleeding.
I've tried hanging many times myself but haven't experienced any of those. Maybe I have a higher tolerance for hanging, but not for the inert gas method.

 

[BirdWatcher]

My story of buying helium

I've seen people on here beeing nervous about buying inert gas before, and sharing their reports about how it went. I got my helium yesterday and thought it might perhaps be interesting for some to hear my story. I want to stress of course that this is my personal anecdote, it might go very differently for others.

I'm from germany and found a welding supply shop that ships all kinds of professional-grade gas cylinders, tools and accessories. They have nitrogen and argon as well, but I went for the helium. I chose a cylinder of Helium 4.0 with 8L at 150 Bar. It comes together with an argon flowmeter, a piece of tubing, and a gas pistol for filling balloons. I already posted an image of what all of that looks like back on page 199 of this thread. The whole set cost 239 Euros. The company has their own online shop, but they also maintain a presence on a certain big american online retailer who's name starts with an A. I chose the latter.

Ordering the gas was as easy as ordering anything else on there, and it got shipped the next day with the normal parcel delivery service DPD. There was no special courier service involved or anything. I was home to expect the package, but the web tracking claimed it could not be delivered and so was forwarded to a "nearby" pickup shop. This might not have had anything to do with it beeing a gas tank, I've had the same problem with DPD in the past with other orders as well. They just lie and let me pick it up myself instead of delivering it.

I'm physically disabled and don't have a car, so hauling that tank back home wasn't easy for me. The package weighed 15 Kg and was awkward to carry. Thankfully I could take most of the way by tram. Without public transportation that whole journey would have been impossible for me and I would have had to try and refund it or something. If anyone else should find themselves in the position of having to haul a big gas cylinder around, I would definitively recommend to get some kind of hand truck for it. That would have saved me much pain and exertion.

The package itself had some red tape around it, a general warning not to throw it around, and the name of the welding supplier. But otherwise it was a normal (if big) cardboard box with no indication of what was inside. The pickup shop guy needed to see my ID, but that's normal procedure. No one really paid me any mind with it.

If anyone had asked any questions, I had a cover story preparded: It's for a light-hearted joke at work where we want to fill the office of a retiree with balloons on his last day.

I haven't actually tried using the tank yet, but everything looks alright atleast. I'm keeping it in its packaging in a corner of my bedroom for now. I had waited with ordering the gas for when the guy I'm sharing the apartment with was out on holidays for a week. Him is the only one I was really nervous about seeing the box when I bring it home, and asking questions about it.

My next step will be DIYing an exit bag.

 

[TiredAndBurntOut]

Hello everyone. I had a question on what kind of bag to use if I don't have access to any gases. I understand that without gas, a plastic bag method is less than idea, but due to my financial and personal situation, I'd rather just do the bag. I did make a seperate thread asking about which bag(s) would be better. Thank you for your time.

 

[ReturnToNothing]

I apologize if I missed this in the body of the OP, but it seems unclear:

Once the bag is filled, after sliding it over the head, is the gas flow supposed to continue? The initial body calls for gas flow for much longer than it would take to inflate the bag, but if the gas is inert and all co2 has been removed from the bag beforehand, what's the use of keeping the flow going?

 

[BirdWatcher]

Longer served forum members might be able to go into more details, but from my understanding:

Hello everyone. I had a question on what kind of bag to use if I don't have access to any gases. I understand that without gas, a plastic bag method is less than idea, but due to my financial and personal situation, I'd rather just do the bag. I did make a seperate thread asking about which bag(s) would be better. Thank you for your time.

I would strongly discourage anyone from ctb with just a plastic bag over their head without gas or an overdose of sleeping pills. Just putting a bag over your head creates carbon dioxide poisoning, which causes an extreme panic reaction. If you'll be able to go through with it at all it will be a very horrible death experience. If you can not acquire gas, then it might be worth to look into other ctb methods than asphyxiation.

I apologize if I missed this in the body of the OP, but it seems unclear:

Once the bag is filled, after sliding it over the head, is the gas flow supposed to continue? The initial body calls for gas flow for much longer than it would take to inflate the bag, but if the gas is inert and all co2 has been removed from the bag beforehand, what's the use of keeping the flow going?

Yes, you're supposed to ensure a continued flow of gas into the exit bag for atleast 20 minutes. This is to create (light) overpressure inside the bag which makes sure no oxygen can come in from the outside, and that all the carbon dioxide you will continue to breath out will be pushed out of the bag.

 

[ReturnToNothing]

I see, I thought that since nitrogen doesn't actually get converted into Co2, that if you purge the bag of co2 properly before filling it up, there wouldn't be a need to expel it.