Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[devils~advocate]

SCUBA is the underwater use version of the SCBA. Apparently, if you go for a Positive Pressure SCUBA mask, you gonna end up spending just as much money as with a SCBA setup. SCBA is not complicated.

"He says industrial respirator masks are engineered to keep external air out, not to contain a pure gas under pressure. But it's also difficult to maintain a reliable seal."

Well these particular masks do just this. The positive pressure does in fact keep external air out. But the supply 'air' is under pressure. In typical use it might be regular air, but it's under pressure none the less.

 

[sm1the]

"He says industrial respirator masks are engineered to keep external air out, not to contain a pure gas under pressure. But it's also difficult to maintain a reliable seal."

Well these particular masks do just this. The positive pressure does in fact keep external air out. But the supply 'air' is under pressure. In typical use it might be regular air, but it's under pressure none the less.

Maybe he was referring to other masks and not SCBA,EEBD?
Because otherwise it a bit confusing why he would say this.
I thought he had mentioned these in the pph as well,but not in a negative light.

 

[devils~advocate]

Maybe he was referring to other masks and not SCBA,EEBD?
Because otherwise it a bit confusing why he would say this.
I thought he had mentioned these in the pph as well,but not in a negative light.

Maybe so. Yeah it is confusing but I understand.
I guess the guy he is quoting advocates for a particular method that isnt this one.
Maybe sometimes advocates of one particular way get so wrapped up in defending that one way, that they can appear to do the opposite for other ways.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Maybe he was referring to other masks and not SCBA,EEBD?
Because otherwise it a bit confusing why he would say this.
I thought he had mentioned these in the pph as well,but not in a negative light.

That's what I was thinking too. Since there is very mixed results with some of the contraptions he has come up with regarding inert gas in the past involving putting things over/covering your head, and now he has pivoted almost entirely towards the Sarco system. So perhaps has just lost faith in the other ideas now. Although he did say the exit bag works perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, many people don't like it. I've seen many on here struggling to get it right.

But has he ever even tested some of these high end expensive masks?

He never went into specifics in that interview, just that the execution of that guy in Alabama (Kenneth smith) was a mistake because of the mask and the fact that gas is a poor method for execution because people will hold their breath and actively fight the process.

But I couldn't get a sense from him, which he thought was the more significant factor. I tried researching what mask they used, but apparently it wasn't published.

But these guys even manage to botch lethal injections too on occasions, so it's hardly the benchmark for success/failure.

 

[User8]

Maybe he was referring to other masks and not SCBA,EEBD?

 

[Fadenself00_]

brand-name positive pressure SCBA masks make a really tight seal.. Firefighters use them after all, and they have to be reliable even with heavy moving/navigation through burning houses, so I see no problem with them coming loose, if strapped tight enough.

 

[sm1the]

There was at least 1 post on SaSu of someone testing his EEBD where he said the O2 must go down to 0 in the hood under a specific time(under a minute I think),does anyone know what that time is or where the post/posts are?.

I got to 0 after 2min30sec I think,is this ok?

brand-name positive pressure SCBA masks make a really tight seal.. Firefighters use them after all, and they have to be reliable even with heavy moving/navigation through burning houses, so I see no problem with them coming loose, if strapped tight enough.

U can say that with reasonable certainty only when conscious.

 

[Fadenself00_]

There was at least 1 post on SaSu of someone testing his EEBD where he said the O2 must go down to 0 in the hood under a specific time(under a minute I think),does anyone know what that time is or where the post/posts are?.

I got to 0 after 2min30sec I think,is this ok?

U can say that with reasonable certainty only when conscious.

One can make pretty much every movement they want, to test it out.
The advantage with positive-pressure SCBA is that small gaps in the seal do not matter (except that they do - slightly - accelerate gas consumption)

 

[sm1the]

One can make pretty much every movement they want, to test it out.
The advantage with positive-pressure SCBA is that small gaps in the seal do not matter (except that they do - slightly - accelerate gas consumption)

I completely missed the part - POSITIVE PRESSURE, in SCBA description.
So you may be right.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

One can make pretty much every movement they want, to test it out.
The advantage with positive-pressure SCBA is that small gaps in the seal do not matter (except that they do - slightly - accelerate gas consumption)

So is it designed to recognise a change in pressure because of the gap, and push more oxygen (in our case nitrogen) out that gap at a faster rate than what's trying to come in? There by maintaining the same atmosphere inside the mask?

Does it make any difference to how it works, that we're using it for nitrogen when it was designed for oxygen? Oxygen is slightly heavier than nitrogen - by about 14%.

This was the podcast I was listening to:



Talks about exit bags around 10mins in, then at 15mins talks about the execution and masks and why they abandoned the idea of masks years earlier.

But if he is mostly talking here about their experiments with the rebreather mask as @User8 posted, then that's really nothing like what these scba mask do right?

Again, no idea what mask they used in that execution. But it's likely they got a bunch of stuff wrong with the method anyway, for example he had a full beard which even that alone would make getting a tight seal challenging.

 

[Fadenself00_]

So is it designed to recognise a change in pressure because of the gap, and push more oxygen (in our case nitrogen) out that gap at a faster rate than what's trying to come in? There by maintaining the same atmosphere inside the mask?

Does it make any difference to how it works, that we're using it for nitrogen when it was designed for oxygen? Oxygen is slightly heavier than nitrogen - by about 14%.

This was the podcast I was listening to:



Talks about exit bags around 10mins in, then at 15mins talks about the execution and masks and why they abandoned the idea of masks years earlier.

But if he is mostly talking here about their experiments with the rebreather mask as @User8 posted, then that's really nothing like what these scba mask do right?

Again, no idea what mask they used in that execution. But it's likely they got a bunch of stuff wrong with the method anyway, for example he had a full beard which even that alone would make getting a tight seal challenging.

There are a bunch of videos showcasing and tearing down positive-pressure LDVs

 

[User8]

There was at least 1 post on SaSu of someone testing his EEBD where he said the O2 must go down to 0 in the hood under a specific time(under a minute I think),does anyone know what that time is or where the post/posts are?.

I got to 0 after 2min30sec I think,is this ok?

U can say that with reasonable certainty only when conscious.

Below I post a screenchot for the EEDB hood procedure.
And here is @Vizzy EEDB guide:

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[devils~advocate]

Ive seen a documented case study of someone using a SCUBA system.

I just feel sorry for my family that will find me with all this.
I plan on covering myself with a sheet and having notes taped to the door explaining what has happened.

 

[sm1the]

I

Below I post a screenchot for the EEDB hood procedure.
And here is @Vizzy EEDB guide:

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

What I meant was-
There was at least 1 person who tested how long the eebd with dummy(or without) takes to reach 0% O2 (with n2 flowing) who stated something like
'O2 needs to drop to 0 within a minute(or such) for the test to be successful'.
(not an exact quote).
Is the above statement accurate?
I'm interested in knowing more about this since in my test I achieved-
0.6% O2 in 2min30sec.I stopped N2 at this stage because I thought it was the O2 analyser that reads slowly.
Then with the N2 flow still off I got-

• 3mins 0%
• 11mins 0.3%
• 13 mins 0.5%
• 15 min 0.6%

Ive also been trying to ascertain whether the results from my test are acceptable,poor,good etc?

The screenshot u sent was interesting, that seems to be like the hood made by a very large Chinese safety device manufacturer(starts with Yi).
However theirs doesn't have an exhaust valve I think.

 

[User8]

Is the above statement accurate?

I haven't really looked into EEDB much. I think it would be better if you pre-fill the hood before pulling it down onto the dummy head in order to be more accurate with how long it takes.