Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[locked*n*loaded]

I thought of that. I want to minimize errors as they're expensive (eebd cost + import costs). I think I'll just risk it, though.

You shouldn't really have any errors. Whatever the hose measures, you can get another piece the same dimensions and an appropriately sized barb to join the pieces together. And by cutting the hose close to the fitting and then measuring the ID exactly, you'll know exactly what size barb to get.

 

[martinso67]

I did test the connections for my 3M Scott Elsa Hood setup (only without the gas bottle).

The bad first:
The hood is very tight on my neck. I have to use both hands and some force to put it on/remove it. Does that cause problem with CO2 not leaving much?
Especially I am not really sure the exhale valve is good.
Because I did block the other valve (the one to be connected to the gas bottle) and did breathe in /out heavily. So much that the hood did start to move (like a ballon, inflate/deflate). But I could not feel any air out of the exhale valve (on its side openings)

When I remove the plastic "security" cover (that should be placed on) on the exhale valve, then i can feel some air go out, when breathing.
But this can't be a solution, because that "security" cover holds the valve and it would fall down. I had to hold it by my hand or I have a hole were I can breath in oxygen.




Also it's after a few seconds not really comfortable having this hood on. Uncomfortable in a sense that the air is bad, it's getting slowly warmer and humid in the hood. The CO2 anlyzer (when I wear the hood with the valve not connected to anything) shows over 9999. The worst measurable amount of co2 in the hood.



The good though:
The rectus 95 ks female 1/4 (model 95KSIW13BPN) connects and is suitable with the din477 24,32 Nitrogen regulator. It works as well with the 3M Scott extension cable. that extension is connect on one side with the hood valve and the other end is connected with that rectus adapter. The rectus adapter is a suitable bridge between the 3M scott valve extension (that I use the extend my hood valve) and the nitrogen regulator.


Possible alternative to the 3M Scott Elsa Hood:
Chinese Fire Escape Hood TZL30???

 

[outrider567]

I did test the connections for my 3M Scott Elsa Hood setup (only without the gas bottle).

The bad first:
The hood is very tight on my neck. I have to use both hands and some force to put it on/remove it. Does that cause problem with CO2 not leaving much?
Especially I am not really sure the exhale valve is good.
Because I did block the other valve (the one to be connected to the gas bottle) and did breathe in /out heavily. So much that the hood did start to move (like a ballon, inflate/deflate). But I could not feel any air out of the exhale valve (on its side openings)

When I remove the plastic "security" cover (that should be placed on) on the exhale valve, then i can feel some air go out, when breathing.
But this can't be a solution, because that "security" cover holds the valve and it would fall down. I had to hold it by my hand or I have a hole were I can breath in oxygen.

View attachment 162124
View attachment 162125

Also it's after a few seconds not really comfortable having this hood on. Uncomfortable in a sense that the air is bad, it's getting slowly warmer and humid in the hood. The CO2 anlyzer (when I wear the hood with the valve not connected to anything) shows over 9999. The worst measurable amount of co2 in the hood.
View attachment 162126


The good though:
The rectus 95 ks female 1/4 (model 95KSIW13BPN) connects and is suitable with the din477 24,32 Nitrogen regulator. It works as well with the 3M Scott extension cable. that extension is connect on one side with the hood valve and the other end is connected with that rectus adapter. The rectus adapter is a suitable bridge between the 3M scott valve extension (that I use the extend my hood valve) and the nitrogen regulator.


Possible alternative to the 3M Scott Elsa Hood:
Chinese Fire Escape Hood TZL30???
View attachment 162127

The EEBD Hood is indeed quite tight around the neck, its supposed to be--When I did my test on myself, at 25 LPM, after about 5 breaths, the Oximeter on my finger showed Oxygen down to 77, taking the EEBD Hood off, my Oxygen level continued to plummet all the way to 40!, in the next 5 seconds--Nitrogen just destroys Oxygen

 

[martinso67]

The EEBD Hood is indeed quite tight around the neck, its supposed to be--When I did my test on myself, at 25 LPM, after about 5 breaths, the Oximeter on my finger showed Oxygen down to 77, taking the EEBD Hood off, my Oxygen level continued to plummet all the way to 40!, in the next 5 seconds--Nitrogen just destroys Oxygen

Interesting. I was worried that Co2 will not purged out really through the valve.
Because it takes sometime to loose consciousness. So this increases uncomfortableness and SI.
I think I will strap myself and that that scott hood is hard to put down will make it beneficial as well against SI.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

I did test the connections for my 3M Scott Elsa Hood setup (only without the gas bottle).

The bad first:
The hood is very tight on my neck. I have to use both hands and some force to put it on/remove it. Does that cause problem with CO2 not leaving much?
Especially I am not really sure the exhale valve is good.
Because I did block the other valve (the one to be connected to the gas bottle) and did breathe in /out heavily. So much that the hood did start to move (like a ballon, inflate/deflate). But I could not feel any air out of the exhale valve (on its side openings)

When I remove the plastic "security" cover (that should be placed on) on the exhale valve, then i can feel some air go out, when breathing.
But this can't be a solution, because that "security" cover holds the valve and it would fall down. I had to hold it by my hand or I have a hole were I can breath in oxygen.

View attachment 162124
View attachment 162125

Also it's after a few seconds not really comfortable having this hood on. Uncomfortable in a sense that the air is bad, it's getting slowly warmer and humid in the hood. The CO2 anlyzer (when I wear the hood with the valve not connected to anything) shows over 9999. The worst measurable amount of co2 in the hood.
View attachment 162126


The good though:
The rectus 95 ks female 1/4 (model 95KSIW13BPN) connects and is suitable with the din477 24,32 Nitrogen regulator. It works as well with the 3M Scott extension cable. that extension is connect on one side with the hood valve and the other end is connected with that rectus adapter. The rectus adapter is a suitable bridge between the 3M scott valve extension (that I use the extend my hood valve) and the nitrogen regulator.


Possible alternative to the 3M Scott Elsa Hood:
Chinese Fire Escape Hood TZL30???
View attachment 162127

How long did it take for the eebd to get to you after having the order in? I've ordered mine a couple of days ago and I'm still waiting for it to be dispatched.

 

[outrider567]

Interesting. I was worried that Co2 will not purged out really through the valve.
Because it takes sometime to loose consciousness. So this increases uncomfortableness and SI.
I think I will strap myself and that that scott hood is hard to put down will make it beneficial as well against SI.

Less than a minute to go unconscious, as per Greenberg

 

[martinso67]

There is a nibble that is easily pushed so the sides open. It should happen when I breath out, because pressure is created and the hood inflates.


I did test it again now. I have a slight headache. Not bad, bad somewhat annoying. Not connecting the hood to anything, but with the 3 meter extension valve. I feel I am not getting air, when I breath out/in heavily, but it did not cause me SI or wanting to remove the hood.

I enjoy this hood in general. I think I will book an extra day in my CTB location. So I can change the "oxygen" breath valve, if it will cause problem with getting oxygen.
Because the hood valve looks like its blocking.

That white thing in the background. Behind the black plastic grid. It looks like it will block anything from passing through?
Or is it normal and the gas will still pass through. Is there something to change in this part to make it work??

I will get a dummy and oyygen test. And test this hood with a dummy. If nitrogen is getting through that hood valve im the second picture above.
I will use the Chinese hood 30tz as an alternative. And put in the 3M Scott extension cord in the hood, by taping it in the inside. Nitrogen will get to the hood behind, through that extension cord. No breathing in directly like through the mask in the 3M Scott.

 

[Argonus]

Finally have gotten the 2 stage regulator and argon gas bottle. Connected the regulator today and tested for leak on balcony. It seems there is small leak that needs fixing on the regulator connection to the cylinder. In 20 mins the pressure gauge had moved few mm down.

How bad for the method it is if there is very small leak between gas cylinder and the regulator? Could it still work or is there risk of having too much air in the mix? I'll order proper seal for the regulator from the tool shop. Seems it might be the ring seal in the regulator connection being bit too large.

 

[Argonus]

So did the test and it seems best it got was 3.1 % of air in the EEBD hood. The main culprit seem to be that the EEBD hood exhale port was letting gas out. Noticed it after pouring soap water on the exhale hole outside. Is it normal?

The mask was so tightly the test mannequins head that it most likely got filled with gas and could not get inside the hood, so it got pushed out from exhale hole as if someone exhales. It probably would be deadly if person was inhaling that gas and doing so no fresh air would get in anyways?

 

[martinso67]

So did the test and it seems best it got was 3.1 % of air in the EEBD hood. The main culprit seem to be that the EEBD hood exhale port was letting gas out. Noticed it after pouring soap water on the exhale hole outside. Is it normal?

The mask was so tightly the test mannequins head that it most likely got filled with gas and could not get inside the hood, so it got pushed out from exhale hole as if someone exhales. It probably would be deadly if person was inhaling that gas and doing so no fresh air would get in anyways?

Which flow speed (liters per minute) did you use. If you have more gas, then you could try 25 to 30L / per minute LPM. Scientific literature says that any environment with less than 5% oxygen makes you lose consiousness fast and death follows in several minutes

 

[Argonus]

Which flow speed (liters per minute) did you use. If you have more gas, then you could try 25 to 30L / per minute LPM. Scientific literature says that any environment with less than 5% oxygen makes you lose consiousness fast and death follows in several minutes

Thank you, it was 20 LPM and went down to 2% oxygen after I duct taped over the exhale port.

This one seems to have just the exhale flap without spring, so it opens too easily. Duct tape restricts it enough without completely blocking.

I'll get new fresh tank of the gas as I wasted a lot in testing and go with the 2% as it should be successful it seems.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

Anyone knows what 15 and 25 LPM of N2 is on an argon flow meter that mesures in LPM?

 

[erski]

Anyone knows what 15 and 25 LPM of N2 is on an argon flow meter that mesures in LPM?

Check out https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-amazon-for-exit-bag-work.199055/post-2916930

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

Check out https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-amazon-for-exit-bag-work.199055/post-2916930

My argon flow meter measures in LPM

 

[zardofan]

Same conversion factor @Jdieiejdjaow regardless of which unit of measurement.
1.19 x 15lpm= 17.85
1.19 x 25lpm=29.75
So if you want 15lpm of N2 using an argon regulator you set it at 17.85lpm

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

Same conversion factor @Jdieiejdjaow regardless of which unit of measurement.
1.19 x 15lpm= 17.85
1.19 x 25lpm=29.75
So if you want 15lpm of N2 using an argon regulator you set it at 17.85lpm

How did you do the conversion? Isn't that table for scfh?

LE: nevermind. I'm pretty dumb. Got it now. Thanks so much!

 

[pappapgold]

For anyone that needs the info on the exit bag with argon.

I have a 80cf argon tank 1700 psi left. Regulator from harbor freight with lpm readings.
I will run 17 lpm for this as it fills the bag just fine

I did place the house high in the bag so the gas has some fall to it

I will tighten the bag with the two finger looseness that is recommended

Standard bag with draw cord and slip knot.

If you don't hear from me in the near future I was successful.

I want this information here since there isn't much on the use of argon.
For anyone that needs the info on the exit bag with argon.

I have a 80cf argon tank 1700 psi left. Regulator from harbor freight with lpm readings.

I did place the house high in the bag so the gas has some fall to it

I will tighten the bag with the two finger looseness that is recommended

Standard bag with draw cord and slip knot.

If you don't hear from me in the near future I was successful.

I want this information here since there isn't much on the use of argon.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

I've bought my Argon flow meter. Fingers crossed it gets delivered without issues. Too many hoops that I've to jump through, lately.

Does anyone know if a 3/8" male hose barb fits a M12 air outlet?

 

[pappapgold]

I've bought my Argon flow meter. Fingers crossed it gets delivered without issues. Too many hoops that I've to jump through, lately.

Does anyone know if a 3/8" male hose barb fits a M12 air outlet?

You using argon?

If you go to your local hardware store or a welding supply shop they will have what you need. Take the regulator with you.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

You using argon?

If you go to your local hardware store or a welding supply shop they will have what you need. Take the regulator with you.

I'm using N2 as my inert gas. Though, there are no nitrogen flow meters where I live. Shocking, I know. So I bought an argon flow meter with a cga 580 inlet. Though I noticed afterwards that the outlet is M12 (found only one thread on the forum with this outlet and no answers). The welding shops here will probably be useless as the flow meter will come from the UK. And I can't travel to the UK as I don't have my national documents.

 

[zardofan]

How did you do the conversion? Isn't that table for scfh?

the table shows the various density ratios comparing gases (and air). The unit of measurement you use is not related to the table. Nitrogen is 1.19x as dense as argon. So no matter whether you are measuring in lpm or scfh, you need to multiply by the conversion factor. This is how you determine what argon setting you'd use for n2.

Converting lpm to scfm is a separate thing and I have just gone off what others have posted, conversion factor 2.12 (shattered serenity) or just use 2 ( fighting Sioux)

Since you already know you want lpm, all you have to do is 15lpm x 1.19 = 17.85lpm because all you are calculating is the argon to n2 conversion.

I'm also using an argon regulator with n2. I hope this makes sense!

 

[pappapgold]

Math isn't my strong suit today.

80cf tank of argon. 110 bars of pressure. Right around 1700 psi.

How many liters of gas do I have left.

Sorry for the pop math quiz

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

Math isn't my strong suit today.

80cf tank of argon. 110 bars of pressure. Right around 1700 psi.

How many liters of gas do I have left.

Sorry for the pop math quiz

2,265 l

Though, I might be wrong. So feel free to correct me (someone).
Can you believe that for a ~€4 hose barb (12mm to 3/8") they charge €50 delivery fee inside the EU?

 

[outrider567]

2,265 l

Though, I might be wrong. So feel free to correct me (someone).
Can you believe that for a ~€4 hose barb (12mm to 3/8") they charge €50 delivery fee inside th

Math isn't my strong suit today.

80cf tank of argon. 110 bars of pressure. Right around 1700 psi.

How many liters of gas do I have left.

Sorry for the pop math quiz

Well, since there is 28.31 liters for each cubic foot, that would be 2264 liters left at 80 cu ft, but original PSI could be 2200, and you have 1700, so you have 77% of tank left, which would leave you with 1743 liters left, way more than enough to CTB--At 25 lpm, that's roughly 70 minutes, and ten minutes is usually enough

Math isn't my strong suit today.

80cf tank of argon. 110 bars of pressure. Right around 1700 psi.

How many liters of gas do I have left.

Sorry for the pop math quiz

I have a 125 cu ft tank, 3540 liters, and even after three years, the PSI is still at 1600, so I have about 103 minutes left in the tank at 25 lpm, enough to CTB ten times over

 

[private.nickname]

Hello everyone!
English is not my native language, I use a translator, so I apologize in advance for inaccurate wording or terms. I will be glad if I am corrected if necessary.
I have been reading various topics here for quite a long time, I think I have figured it out enough to ask the right questions, or even help someone.
I chose the N2 method (SCBA or SCUBA) for myself. I live in Eastern Europe. I started by looking for a cylinder and N2 <-> AIR adapters. In my country, there are at least 3 suppliers of cylinder gas, I wrote a request to each of them. So far, I have received complete information only from one, but nuances have already appeared. This gas supplier seems to be a German company, and I think they can be trusted. They claim that all their gas is at least 99.995% pure. At the same time, there are also options of 99.999% and 99.9999%. But cylinders come with different types of connections: DIN 477-9 or DIN 477-10, depending on the cylinder volume and gas type. And it is necessary to properly choose the adapter N2 <-> AIR, according to the connection on the cylinder, to connect SCBA or SCUBA equipment. It will be either DIN 477-9 G 3/4 <-> G 5/8, or DIN 477-10 W24.32x1/14 <-> G 5/8. At the moment, both adapters are available for ordering online in EU, and I ordered both. By the way, in the description of the DIN 477-9 G 3/4 adapter it is written that it is for oxygen, probably this connection is "originally" used for O2.
DIN 477-9 G 3/4 – 5 l (99.995%), 10 l (99.995%) cylinders.
DIN 477-10 W24.32x1/14 - 8 l (99.995%), 10 l (99.999% and 99.9999%) cylinders.

I hope this will be useful to someone. If so, I will describe the further stages of the installation later.

 

[private.nickname]

Though, I might be wrong. So feel free to correct me (someone).
Can you believe that for a ~€4 hose barb (12mm to 3/8") they charge €50 delivery fee inside the EU?

What's the point of ordering a hose barb? It's a basic part that's used in all countries. You can buy it at your local hardware store for the same 4e or so. It's not a gas-specific part, these hose barb are used everywhere for water. And you need a gasket, of course.

And one more "life hack." If you need to connect two hoses (for example, extend the hose to the EEBD), you don't have to measure anything at all. Cut a 3 cm piece (1 minimum) from each hose and take it with you to the hardware store. Show them to the seller, and he will give you the right hose barb and hose clamps to connect one to the other.

 

[stardust_11]

I'm new to this website. How do I obtain a nitrogen tank in Australia? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

What's the point of ordering a hose barb? It's a basic part that's used in all countries. You can buy it at your local hardware store for the same 4e or so. It's not a gas-specific part, these hose barb are used everywhere for water. And you need a gasket, of course.

And one more "life hack." If you need to connect two hoses (for example, extend the hose to the EEBD), you don't have to measure anything at all. Cut a 3 cm piece (1 minimum) from each hose and take it with you to the hardware store. Show them to the seller, and he will give you the right hose barb and hose clamps to connect one to the other.

You'd be surprised to find out the little amount of welding equipment they've in Ireland. I've to buy most of the equipment from the UK or other countries in the EU.

 

[pappapgold]

There was a newer thread started by a woman i do believe about exit bag and inert gasses. It was started since this got so big.

Does anyone have the link for it.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

There was a newer thread started by a woman i do believe about exit bag and inert gasses. It was started since this got so big.

Does anyone have the link for it.

Don't know if you have it available, but you could use the search function.