Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[FromGermany]

Also with a mask.

 

[FromGermany]

My PAPSTAR freezer bags 60 litres 90x50 cm, material is LLDPE, are a good alternative to Turkey Oven Bags, material PET, 60x55 cm. PAPSTAR is more rubust and comes with a 50 piece package.

 

[ToughLife]

@goingrealsoon are you still around? Did you test the EEBD? Did it work?

 

[ToughLife]

Anyone tested the EEBD from [removed due to sourcing]? I'm looking for information on this hood. Is it more reliable than exit bag?

 

[FromGermany]

The exit bag is a proven method. The exit bag works. I would also prefer an EEBD hood, but there are a lot of things to consider and to test with a hood. The hoods are from China. The costs are 20-50 Dollar maximum without the cylinder if you import a few pieces. The [removed due to sourcing] hoods are so overpriced, this is the problem.

 

[ToughLife]

@FromGermany you are correct, it only costs $12 a piece on Alibaba.

Too bad I just ordered one from [removed due to sourcing] yesterday. The concerns I have is the mask does not seal to the face and it is easy to be dislodged if there is an convulsion or movements.

 

[FromGermany]

Yes, at Alibaba EEBD hoods like that are also available for a few Dollars.

 

[Ta555]

Ok I've read through the vast majority of this thread and I just want to confirm, is possible or not to use a regular nitrogen regulator, the one with the round gauges, not the clickstyle litres per minute one. I don't think it's going to be possible for me to get a litres per minute regulator where I live and I can't just order online since the fittings are different by region/country. I want to combine exit bag with another method so precise flow doesn't matter to me too much. I just need to get some continuous flow going. Thanks for any advice!

 

[Interloper]

Ok I've read through the vast majority of this thread and I just want to confirm, is possible or not to use a regular nitrogen regulator, the one with the round gauges, not the clickstyle litres per minute one. I don't think it's going to be possible for me to get a litres per minute regulator where I live and I can't just order online since the fittings are different by region/country. I want to combine exit bag with another method so precise flow doesn't matter to me too much. I just need to get some continuous flow going. Thanks for any advice!

Have you looked for nearby welding stores? I'd be surprised if there is a country that doesn't have welding stores. I also didn't think to look there for the longest time, but when I did I found one a few towns over that sells almost every regulator imaginable; it was like finding the holy grail.

 

[Ta555]

Have you looked for nearby welding stores? I'd be surprised if there is a country that doesn't have welding stores. I also didn't think to look there for the longest time, but when I did I found one a few towns over that sells almost every regulator imaginable; it was like finding the holy grail.

Yes I've looked at online welding stores in my country. But they do not sell nitrogen regulators which measure litres per minute. The clickstyle regulators advocated here are for medical use, not welding.

 

[Interloper]

Yes I've looked at online welding stores in my country. But they do not sell nitrogen regulators which measure litres per minute. The clickstyle regulators advocated here are for medical use, not welding.

Have you sent any emails? I'm sure at least one of those stores will be able to source you a proper regulator with the right fitting. They might even have products that aren't mentioned on their website (if they have partners for example)

Wish I could help with your original question though.

 

[Ta555]

Have you sent any emails? I'm sure at least one of those stores will be able to source you a proper regulator with the right fitting. They might even have products that aren't mentioned on their website (if they have partners for example)

Wish I could help with your original question though.

No I haven't but it's worth a try.

 

[Ta555]

Ok, I've been thinking a lot and I think I would do this standing up and prepped for full suspension. I know that might sound weird but I think this is most reassuring to me.
I have a nitrogen tank and the escmode nitrogen regulator (haven't tested it yet though). I do not trust the exit bag method by itself (e.g. sitting in an armchair or bed) for several reasons. Firstly, there's no way to properly secure your hands since you may go unconscious too fast before you can secure them. Secondly, I don't 100% trust the equipment, not anything in particular but just in general. There's always that tiny freak chance that the regulator or the tank may suddenly stop working before you're properly dead.
So my solution is to stand on a chair/bucket, with noose on neck, and then pull down the exit bag. In my view I'll pass out, either fall off the chair or 'crouch' as my body goes limp and the noose will finish the job even if the bag gets a bit dislodged. I think this way, one method or the other will finish the job.
I know some people say it's not a good idea to combine methods but to me it is being double sure. This is my idea right now, if you have any thoughts of how to make it better would love to hear it. I just really, really don't trust the gas by itself not because it's an unreliable method if done right, but there's too many unknowns to me after going unconscious.

 

[idiotstillwantstodie]

I have a couple of questions:

1) How important is it to stay in a upright position, and why?

2) i have a regulator that says max 180 bar pressure. Is it dangerous to use 200 bar gas tank?

 

[Greenberg]

I have a couple of questions:

1) How important is it to stay in a upright position, and why?

2) i have a regulator that says max 180 bar pressure. Is it dangerous to use 200 bar gas tank?

1. Best to be in a reclined position with less chance of displacing the bag.
2. For safety reasons, I would not suggest using a 200 bar pressurized tank. However, 180 bar is equivalent to 2610 psi and 200 bar is almost 3000 psi. I doubt your supplier will fill the tank to the tank's maximum pressure. I would advise that you check with your supplier.

 

[Butterflyfree]

If you choose to use a higher flow rate than suggested, just make sure that you have sufficient gas. Best, G

Is a higher flow rate necessary and would it cause unconsciousness faster?

If you choose to use a higher flow rate than suggested, just make sure that you have sufficient gas. Best, G

@Greenberg if a higher flow rate is used will unconsciousness occur faster or does it not matter?

 

[idiotstillwantstodie]

1. Best to be in a reclined position with less chance of displacing the bag.
2. For safety reasons, I would not suggest using a 200 bar pressurized tank. However, 180 bar is equivalent to 2610 psi and 200 bar is almost 3000 psi. I doubt your supplier will fill the tank to the tank's maximum pressure. I would advise that you check with your supplier.

1. In the "Peacefull pill handbook" Hypoxia/exit bag section it says: "Do NOT lie down":

But it's never explained in the book why you shouldn't!

 

[FromGermany]

Is a higher flow rate necessary and would it cause unconsciousness faster?

if a higher flow rate is used will unconsciousness occur faster or does it not matter?

Of course it matters. It's almost impossible to crunch out all air from a bag. As more flow, as quicker the remaining O2 will be removed out of the bag. Unconsciousness depends on the level of O2 and so is directly connected to the flow rate. Also the positive pressure, which stands against new O2 from the neck, depends on flow rate.

Also one is exhaling at least 14 % O2. This has to be removed also as fast as possible aside the CO2.

It's proven, that so called tests of PPH are not thought through like with the 3M helmet. This should be an alarm signal.

You should keep in mind, and I do not understand, why this will almost never be mentioned, that only a 2 stage regulator will ensure, that the flow rate at the 2nd stage will be stable.

So you are always operating with the risk either running out of gas, that the flow rate is not what you expect, if you use a cheap regulator, probably an explanation for many failures.

This is why a flow rate of at least 20/Liter Minute is so important and gas for 60 minutes, so that this is not a problem.

 

[FromGermany]

One more thing about advices.

PPH says, I quote "To minimise the chance of experiencing panic and air hunger, it is recommended that before pulling down the bag, one spends a short time (1-2 mins) hyperventilating (ic. deeply inhaling and exhaling air into the lungs at an increased frequency). This hyperventilation has the effect of pre-lowering the carbon dioxide level in the blood, and will significantly reduce the possibility of an increase in CO2 and any associated alarm response when the bag is pulled down"

Try it. Hyperventilate for 2 minutes and after that, when you are already foggy and at the brink of falling over, then ensure, that you will not forget anything of all the things, that are important. I mean, there are also people, who do not make sports, who are older or are sick already.

This kind of advices are not for everyone. Sometimes advices are theoretically great but in reality not helpful at all for all people.

 

[Fromama]

Hello everyone.
Please tell me what minimum purity of nitrogen is required for method Exit bag ?
I searched the forum and found this:

one topic said that:
Actually, anything over 95% will do the trick just fine.

in a different:
Purity at least rating 2.8 (it means 99.8% purity)
The problem is that there is only one supplier in my district and he said the purity is about 97% (I didn't ask about other 3 percents).

Balloon 20 l, 150 bar, it is about 3000 liters of gas, enough for the tests, if you have any idea how to check if the purity is enough.
I would be glad to receive any information regarding the required purity.
Thanks in advance!

upd.
I found mr.Greenberg message (and his blog): even 95% purity is sufficient
So I believe 97% is really enough ?

 

[FromGermany]

Watanabe T, Morita M, "Asphyxia due to oxygen deficiency by gaseous substances", Forensic Sci Int.

Forensic Science, no hearsay.

Death occurs when atmospheric oxygen comprises less than 6% of the air. The normal concentration of oxygen in the air is 21%. Death then occurs in a matter of seconds or minutes, although this depends not only on the concentration percentage of oxygen, but also on the rate at which it decreases.

Consequently, asphyxia can be rapid (2-3 minutes) when there is no oxygen, prolonged (20-25 minutes) when oxygen is reduced gradually, and even more delayed (60 minutes) when the oxygen concentration remains at 20% but another harmful gas is present.

 

[Fromama]

Thanks!

But I've read some resources and PPH but still not sure about my setup (because of not pure nitrogen, and my bad English probably)
Maybe somebody can give any advice? I'll be very thankful.
If my nitrogen is 97% pure (and I don't exclude the worst case in 95%) do I need to adjust the flow rate or bottom bag tightness to non-standard? Now the tightness is such that it leaves small marks on the neck, and the flow rate is 15 liters per minute.

 

[Butterflyfree]

Click on the triple-bar-menu-symbol at the video thumbnail. The videos in the playlist are shown there.

@FromGermany I don't see any videos or video links.

Theoretically yes, if the oxygen concentration is below 8% or so.

I believe that it will be low enough if the exit bag method is done correctly and it should certainly be be low enough if using a SCBA mask with demand valve for unconsciousness to occur very rapidly before hypoxic symptoms become noticeable or distressing.

I plan to test my SCBA mask/demand valve this weekend. I am very interested in determining what symptoms I experience, if any, and how long it takes for me to start becoming unconscious.

@Mors did you ever test your nitrogen set up?

 

[FromGermany]

@FromGermany I don't see any videos or video links.

It's about this post.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/page-46#post-1367644

At the right top corner at the thumbnail there is a three bar symbol with 1/30. This is the link to the playlist.

Thanks!

But I've read some resources and PPH but still not sure about my setup (because of not pure nitrogen, and my bad English probably)
Maybe somebody can give any advice? I'll be very thankful.
If my nitrogen is 97% pure (and I don't exclude the worst case in 95%) do I need to adjust the flow rate or bottom bag tightness to non-standard? Now the tightness is such that it leaves small marks on the neck, and the flow rate is 15 liters per minute.

You should use Nitrogen 2.8 minimum. This has still 99 % purity. Regardless, which puritiy you have, 20 L/Minute should be the minimum flow.

 

[Butterflyfree]

Exactly, and as I have pointed out, 15L/m is not optimal. It's the minimum only.
And there has to be gas for 60 minutes.

Very thick oven gloves, so that it's hard to rip off the bag or helmet when one loses consciousness. Many movements are directed towards the head. Most people have convulsions with Nitrogen as the study of RAF Institute of Aviation Medicine has proven.

The complete set must hold for 10 minutes, because then the death of the brainstem is imminent, and there is no way back to consciousness. Heart and lungs need more time to give up, perhaps 20 more minutes.

Even it all these things can happen quicker, one has to calculate, there is always an exception to the rule.

If one will be rescued within the first 10 minutes or something bad happens to the bag/helmet within the 10 minutes, then there is a very bad brain damage without any chance of recovery.

So higher flow rate than 15 L/min, enough gas for 60 minutes, oven gloves, sitting upper body taped in an armchair and some other things one has to think about.

@FromGermany not convulsions, but involuntary movement of the body arms moving ect .. it's just the brain shutting down.

 

[FromGermany]

Scientists and professional gas suppliers, who are working for hundred years or longer in the gas industry, must be idiots when they claim, this are convulsions, because exit guides know it better.

 

[Butterflyfree]

Scientists and professional gas suppliers, who are working for hundred years or longer in the gas industry, must be idiots when they claim, this are convulsions, because exit guides know it better.

@FromGermany you make it sound as if absolutely everyone has convulsions. They don't. Even the pig being euthanized with nitrogen didn't have convulsions.

 

[Interloper]

I have some remaining questions, as I am nearing the final steps (hopefully)

1) The regulator I purchased has a W21,8 x 1/14" connection according to the website I got it from, conforming to EN 562/EN ISO 2503. The gas supplier bottles use a W21,8 x 1/14" right/external so I'm assuming that's all good. But they (gas supplier) state NBN226/DIN477 and not the EN numbers, is that something I should be worried about? I can find the NBN/DIN norms but not the EN numbers?

2) As for the regulator, there's 2 knobs; the big one at the bottom as you can see and another smaller one at the hose connection which is actually marked with a - and a +. Do I just open them in the obvious order? Like what are the steps? If I am not mistaken I;

1. connect the regulator and make sure it is tight, no leaks
2. open the cylinder valve, the left gauge should then show me the bottle pressure in bar
3. then I turn the big knob to let the gas through? Or do I have to turn the big knob before it shows me the bottle pressure?
4. Then I turn the smaller knob to adjust the lpm value and gas should then be flowing out of the hose connector

3) Since I am using argon, would lying down work? The only reason I can think of why you'd want to sit upright is so that the nitrogen/helium doesn't escape the bag as easily but that's not what I am using. I'd strap myself to my matress to prevent rolling over at least.

4) I got a standard oxygen tube but it's a bit challenging to get it on the hose connector. Would I be better off just getting an actual argon hose? Or if I do get the oxygen tube onto the connector, how do I make sure it stays on?

4) There is a room below me that is in use, so I'd do it when they are out for a couple of days. However I don't have baseboards so argon might make its way down there and stay there for a while. My concern is that they have a dog that sleeps on the floor there, and I don't want to risk anything. Should I close the wall gaps with something (if so, what?) or would a fan pointed at my window be enough to disperse any argon leaving the bag?

5) It's advised to leave a gap of 2 fingers wide at the neck but that seems really big? Especially if I am using the heavier argon gas. If I make it any tighter would the co2 not be able to get out as easily? There was also a small discussion about exploding lungs a while back, would that be a concern with a tighter elastic then?

6) Maybe another stupid question but because I am on the smaller side, does my smaller lung capacity affect any of this?

I've searched the thread and I've found a couple of answers but it's a pain searching threads on this website. And me typing this out also helps it actually stay in my head for longer than 10 seconds.

 

[FromGermany]

@FromGermany you make it sound as if absolutely everyone has convulsions. They don't. Even the pig being euthanized with nitrogen didn't have convulsions.

This back and forth with that Exit guides narratives will lead to nothing. I will only say, don't twist my words. It's a proven fact, that I have wrote several times on the forum, that not everybody will have consulsions, but many and that I am writing for the worst case scenario, which includes convulsions, because I have a responsibility for my writings and I will not put the health of other people in danger due to Exit narratives, hearsay, dangerous superficial knowledge, 2-fingers-stories or handpicked information.

One example are these animal experiments. Human beings are neither pigs nor rats. There have been also experiments with rats, but rats are living underground, so for them gases in the air have a different outcome in the behavior.

There have been made scientific experiments with human beings inhaling nitrogen, and it's a proven fact, that most of them had convulsions. Are you are a rat, pig or a human being?

There are countless people in care homes, probably also some, vanished from this forum, who had CTB failures with different methods and are now suffering under pain, amputations, brain damage or other things. They will never report about their failures, will never come back, because they are finished.

So it's up to everyone to take responsibility for the writing or not.

The gas method is so complicated and have to be fine tuned, it's also expensive, because cheap materials are dangerous, and it's a dangerous method if it goes wrong. You can not learn that within some days or a week.

To make this also worst-case-scenario 95 % safe, months are needed.

Every single case can be the worst case, and then it's over, if it is not done as safe as possible.

I will take my responsibility very serious, and after researching all these euthanasia groups and their propaganda techniques, and I made investigations and research as a professional for decades. I would give not a Cent for their word without research for my own. A lot of things can debunked only by common sense. But some CTP people are so desperate, that they believe anything, they will be told.

Why the 15 Liter/Minute Nitschke narrative was not debunked in the public years ago, that this has only be promoted and chosen, because Nitschke's equipment even the tubing are oxygen equipment, which has a free to purchase medical max flow standard of 15/Liter Minute? It's not chosen because of the good for the people but to sell his products better, that it will fit to his products and claims, to have a self-confirmation about what is in the PPH.

The minimum is at least 20 Liter/Minute, depending on the individual breath volume. Proven by scientists.

Again: Every single case can be the worst case, and then it's over, if it is not done as safe as possible.

 

[idiotstillwantstodie]

Does anyone else feel that the peaceful pill handbook offers an overtly positive view about this method, and does not notify the reader about it's risks nearly enough?

This method is very dangerous to try alone. That is, obviously, because even when it works, death is not always guaranteed. Done wrong, it has a pretty high potential of leaving you alive, with permanent, serious brain damage. Personally I would never try this method without assistance, because worse case scenario (and actually a quite likely one), i end up living the next 50 years in a home for the disabled. There are many ways one can fuck this up and the book is not underlining these ways or their consequences nearly enough. I'm all for spreading information about ways to end your life, but this part of the book needs improvement.

I don't know if english not being my first language has anything to do with this, but i just don't feel that it's detailed enough, especially when it comes to the risks involved.