Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Apricity]

@mandyjohnuk okay, yes. I thought that was the desired feel we were going for with the plastic tubing period ... but it seems the problem is the thinness of it still ... the regulator I have (because I couldn't get one with the low pressure needed quickly) is apparently to use the gas as a TORCH so it would push the air out "harder" and blow the tubing off ... I'm kind of stuck with this regulator ... Tired Horse made everything sound so easy ... what would happen if we use a regular hose and snipped the end going into the bag?

You can try to use a hose clamp to keep the tubing attached. They are available at just about any hardware or automotive store.

 

[LastTime]

@Apricity I WAS told that as well. Crazy question but can a regular hose fitted for the regulator be used if the secondary connector was snipped from the other end? Is that possible?

 

[mandyjohnuk]

@mandyjohnuk okay, yes. I thought that was the desired feel we were going for with the plastic tubing period ... but it seems the problem is the thinness of it still ... the regulator I have (because I couldn't get one with the low pressure needed quickly) is apparently to use the gas as a TORCH so it would push the air out "harder" and blow the tubing off ... I'm kind of stuck with this regulator ... Tired Horse made everything sound so easy ... what would happen if we use a regular hose and snipped the end going into the bag?

If you can find a hose clamp small enough this should be ok.

 

[Apricity]

@Apricity I WAS told that as well. Crazy question but can a regular hose fitted for the regulator be used if the secondary connector was snipped from the other end? Is that possible?

If you mean the part that would be going into the bag, it can still be used just fine. Only thing that end needs to do is let gas through.

 

[Greenberg]

I'm kind of stuck with this regulator ... but when you say oxygen tubing ... what do you mean ? ...

Oxygen tubing is 1/4" clear plastic tubing used in medical settings.

@Greenberg ... As far as the conversion ... I'm being told you have to piece together attachments to fit the regulator and then connect the hose if it need be plastic... do you have any pictures to share of this finished product? ... and what would happen if one were to use a standard hose and snipped one side ?

I have a click-style regulator (which I can set the flow rate). The oxygen tubing is connected to the output (X-mas tree) port of the regulator via force fit. I do not employ attachments nor adapters. Please bear in mind the weight of your hose as it might disturb the stability of the bag. Honestly, I have not experimented with your variation of the exit method. I would suggest you consult who might have advised you earlier about it. Best, G

 

[LastTime]

If you mean the part that would be going into the bag, it can still be used just fine. Only thing that end needs to do is let gas through.

Oxygen tubing is 1/4" clear plastic tubing used in medical settings.

I have a click-style regulator (which I can set the flow rate). The oxygen tubing is connected to the output (X-mas tree) port of the regulator via force fit. I do not employ attachments nor adapters. Please bear in mind the weight of your hose as it might disturb the stability of the bag. Honestly, I have not experimented with your variation of the exit method. I would suggest you consult who might have advised you earlier about it. Best

@Greenberg was using the instruction of the person who started this thread ... I think the issue is my regulator or the store clerks just stating the obvious that this is not it's intended use ... do you have a picture you are willing to share?

 

[Apricity]

@Greenberg was using the instruction of the person who started this thread ... I think the issue is my regulator or the store clerks just stating the obvious that this is not it's intended use ... do you have a picture you are willing to share?

I have a few photos in my nitrogen Update thread

 

[Butterflyfree]

When I aborted my attempt the other night, my bag had just barely filled up when my wife called. After having a video chat with her with an inflated exit bag on my head, I took it off and held it against my face just to see if it really felt the same as just breathing regular air. It does.

I honestly couldn't tell the difference between regular air and pure nitrogen, until my body started running out of oxygen. I started breathing faster, as if trying to catch my breath. I started getting dizzy as well, then I let the bag fall off my face. I'm definitely going to need a benzo for this. Any thoughts @Greenberg ?

@Apricity it sounds like the nitrogen was gone from the bag and that's why you were feeling those symptoms of breathing faster, dizzy ect. Hypoxia from nitrogen won't cause that but CO2 buildup will.

 

[Mors]

Rapid breathing and dizziness are symptoms of hypoxia.

However, usually breathing pure nitrogen causes the oxygen level to fall quickly enough that these symptoms are not noticeable before unconsciousness ensues.

Perhaps the oxygen concentration started increasing as the bag loosened. Breathing in an environment in which the oxygen concentration is higher than 8-11% usually induces detectable symptoms such as dizziness and rapid breathing. If the oxygen concentration falls any lower the symptoms aren't noticeable because unconsciousness occurs so rapidly.

 

[Butterflyfree]

Rapid breathing and dizziness are symptoms of hypoxia.

However, usually breathing pure nitrogen causes the oxygen level to fall quickly enough that these symptoms are not noticeable before unconsciousness ensues.

Perhaps the oxygen concentration started increasing as the bag loosened. Breathing in an environment in which the oxygen concentration is higher than %8-11% usually induces detectable symptoms such as dizziness and rapid breathing. If the oxygen concentration falls any lower the symptoms aren't noticeable because unconsciousness occurs so rapidly.

@Mors I was told by final exit that unconsciousness can take from anywhere up to 3 minutes. How can you know what percentage your oxygen levels are at?

 

[Mors]

I was told by final exit that unconsciousness bcan take from anywhere up to 3 minutes.

I believe it is variable from person to person depending on several factors such as overall health, purity of the gas, and individual variations in the exit bag setup.

Everything I have read states that unconsciousness is almost immediate at oxygen concentration levels below five or six percent.

Thus it seems that the best method is a mask with a demand valve because it ensures that the wearer is breathing only the inert gas and all carbon dioxide is expelled from a built-in valve. Most sources say two or three breaths are sufficient.

Later this week I am planning to try it myself to determine how long it takes to become unconscious and the symptoms I personally experience, if any.

 

[LastTime]

I have a few photos in my nitrogen Update thread

@Greenberg when you first put your regulator on, no hose, should it hiss when you open the valve to check pressure of tank? I didn't hear any noise on the videos for installation, want to know if my connection is just leaking ..

@Apricity it sounds like the nitrogen was gone from the bag and that's why you were feeling those symptoms of breathing faster, dizzy ect. Hypoxia from nitrogen won't cause that but CO2 buildup will.

@Apricity when you first put your regulator on, no hose, should it hiss (the whole time) when you open the valve to check pressure of tank? I didn't hear any noise on the videos for installation, want to know if my connection is just leaking ..

 

[Apricity]

@Greenberg when you first put your regulator on, no hose, should it hiss when you open the valve to check pressure of tank? I didn't hear any noise on the videos for installation, want to know if my connection is just leaking ..

@Apricity when you first put your regulator on, no hose, should it hiss (the whole time) when you open the valve to check pressure of tank? I didn't hear any noise on the videos for installation, want to know if my connection is just leaking ..

It will hiss when the regulator is filling up. You can check for leaks with a spray bottle filled with water and a few drops of dish washing soap. You have to make sure the regulator is screwed in tight, so use a wrench. You can also get some gas rated teflon tape for a dollar if you want, but it isn't required.

 

[Greenberg]

@Greenberg when you first put your regulator on, no hose, should it hiss when you open the valve to check pressure of tank? I didn't hear any noise on the videos for installation, want to know if my connection is just leaking ..

@Apricity when you first put your regulator on, no hose, should it hiss (the whole time) when you open the valve to check pressure of tank? I didn't hear any noise on the videos for installation, want to know if my connection is just leaking ..

Did you check for any potential leaks? A hiss represents a potential leak at a connection point. A popular test is to use soapy water at the connection and watch for bubbles. Leaks can be mitigated by (obviously) tightening the connection or using Teflon tape to seal the leak. Best, G

 

[MG_39]

Did you check for any potential leaks? A hiss represents a potential leak at a connection point. A popular test is to use soapy water at the connection and watch for bubbles. Leaks can be mitigated by (obviously) tightening the connection or using Teflon tape to seal the leak. Best, G

When the regulator is attached and the valve on the gas bottle is opened there will be a short hissing when the regulator fills up.

Using teflon tape only works on tapered fittings, and if your straight cga fitting is leaking, DO NOT try to solve it with teflon tape, because it's either something wrong with the fitting on your cylinder or your regulator fitting or the valve stem o-ring in your regulator, or you haven't tightened it.

 

[LastTime]

Rapid breathing and dizziness are symptoms of hypoxia.

However, usually breathing pure nitrogen causes the oxygen level to fall quickly enough that these symptoms are not noticeable before unconsciousness ensues.

Perhaps the oxygen concentration started increasing as the bag loosened. Breathing in an environment in which the oxygen concentration is higher than 8-11% usually induces detectable symptoms such as dizziness and rapid breathing. If the oxygen concentration falls any lower the symptoms aren't noticeable because unconsciousness occurs so rapidly.

So basically, you should really just pass out before you notice ANYTHING , i.e. dizziness or panic?

The Regulator:

A regulator screws on to the cylinder and does two things: 1) it reduces the pressure in the cylinder to a useable level, otherwise the 2000psi tank pressure would just blow the exit bag off your head as soon as you opened the valve, and 2) it controls the rate of gas flow into the exit bag —specifically, it should release it at 15Lpm, which is the minimum adequate to carry away exhaled CO2 and fool your lungs into believing there's enough air.

The good news is that while gas cylinder sizes are not globally standardized, the cylinder valve threads are —and both N2 and Ar cylinders have the same threads (other gasses have different threads), so a regulator that fits on one cylinder will fit equally well on another.

You don't need to worry about being sure to choose a regulator that will reduce the pressure: they all do that. The flowmeter is the critical element of the regulator for our purposes.

Some regulators come with a "click adjust" flowmeter that is very simple, allowing you to dial in 15Lpm without needing to think about it. To the best of my knowledge, these are medical grade regulators; generally very good quality, but often a bit more expensive. Others here may know more about them, and where to acquire them, than I do.

A typical welding regulator will have two gauges: the tank pressure gauge (unimportant to us) and the flowmeter gauge.

A welding regulator's flowmeter gauge will be marked in either cubic feet per hour (Cfh), Lpm, or both. Some welding systems require a fairly low flow of inert gas, much lower than our necessary 15Lpm, and this low flow is most easily measured in Cfh. If you see a gauge marked only in Cfh, it probably will not work for our purpose. Look at the highest Cfh setting on the flowmeter and do the math, to be certain. If the gauge reads in Lpm, a glance should tell you whether the regulator provides the necessary 15Lpm flow.

Harbor Freight Tools offers a cheap CO2/Ar regulator (it also works for N2) with a flowmeter that shows flow in both Cfh and Lpm and goes high enough for our purposes. This is what I have.

The Hose:

The hose needs to be long enough to reach from the gas cylinder beside you, up into the exit bag on your head. I have found it easiest to lead the hose up my back and into the bag at the very back of my neck. It seems to disrupt the fit of the bag less right there.

Some regulators come with a hose that threads directly into the regulator body. Some regulators come with a hose-barb, onto which a length of soft tubing can be pressed. Some regulators come with neither.

For the first situation, just thread the hose into the regulator, tighten it with a wrench, and it's ready.

(Regardless of what type of threaded fitting is used, you do need to wrench-tighten this fitting: a lot of gas can leak out at this connection. If it is a brass fitting, you should not need teflon tape on the threads; the soft metal deforms enough when tightened to provide an adequately gas-tight connection.)

For the second situation, take the hose-barb to a hardware / home improvement store and purchase tubing that fits onto the barb. Once home from the hardware store, thread the barb into the regulator body, tighten with a wrench, and press the tube onto the barb. It should be a snug fit; if you're worried it's too loose, use a small hose clamp / jubilee clip to secure it in place. If it's a little too tight to get the hose into place, soak the end of the tube in very hot water to soften it and press it onto the barb. I used clear vinyl tubing. Aquarium tubing should work. Surgical tubing may not; I don't know for sure.

For the third situation, you'll need a hose-barb fitting (typically brass) that threads into the regulator body. Take the entire regulator to the hardware store and ask someone to help you fit it with a hose barb. Then proceed as for the second situation.

Cover story: as with purchasing the gas cylinder, you're using N2 for brewing, or Ar for filling partial paint cans. Why Ar? because it's heavier than air and settles down onto the paint surface inside the can. For extra confidence that they won't ask inconvenient questions, you're doing it for your father, or your brother, and you don't know why they want it for their paint locker, they just said to get a hose barb and six feet of tubing…

The Exit Bag:

There are several videos on YouTube detailing construction of exit bags. I strongly recommend watching them. That's how I learned.

The short version of what you want is a turkey roasting bag —available in the supermarket, in with the zip-locks and cling wrap— with an elastic drawcord worked into a turned hem, and a cord-lock to adjust the drawcord's tension.

I used 3/8" elastic cord. I purchased both it and the cord lock at a sewing and crafts store (JoAnn's).

To construct the turned hem you'll need micropore (surgical) tape, available at a pharmacy in the first aid section. It's the right tape to use because it will reliably stick to the material of the bag itself. Sometimes it isn't labeled as "micropore." Ask a clerk if you can't find it.

Cover story: you were asked to re-stock the family first aid kit with micropore tape and you don't recognize any of the brands available.

Using an elastic drawcord is important: it needs to fit snugly around your neck, but not seal tightly. It must still be flexible enough for the flow of inert gas, lightly pressurizing the exit bag, to push past the elastic and flush away the CO2 you're exhaling. Don't use a non-elastic drawcord or do something like duct tape the bag to your neck; you don't want to create a seal, just a restriction.

@greenbmy hose is coiled as it is plastic so it looks around. I had to tape into the bag but I'm worried it will let too much air in .. any suggestions?
@Greenberg my hose is coiled as it is plastic so it loops around. I had to tape into the bag but I'm worried it will let too much air in .. any suggestions?

Did you check for any potential leaks? A hiss represents a potential leak at a connection point. A popular test is to use soapy water at the connection and watch for bubbles. Leaks can be mitigated by (obviously) tightening the connection or using Teflon tape to seal the leak. Best, G

@Greenberg gotcha

I have a few photos in my nitrogen Update thread

@Apricity can you share a link to the thread?

 

[Mors]

So basically, you should really just pass out before you notice ANYTHING , i.e. dizziness or panic?

Theoretically yes, if the oxygen concentration is below 8% or so.

I believe that it will be low enough if the exit bag method is done correctly and it should certainly be be low enough if using a SCBA mask with demand valve for unconsciousness to occur very rapidly before hypoxic symptoms become noticeable or distressing.

I plan to test my SCBA mask/demand valve this weekend. I am very interested in determining what symptoms I experience, if any, and how long it takes for me to start becoming unconscious.

 

[LastTime]

Theoretically yes, if the oxygen concentration is below 8% or so. I believe that it will be low enough if the exit bag method is done correctly and it most certainly will be low enough if using a SCBA mask with demand valve for unconsciousness to occur very rapidly before hypoxic symptoms become noticeable or distressing.

I plan to test my SCBA mask/demand valve this weekend. I am very interested in determining what symptoms I experience, if any, and how long it takes for me to start becoming unconscious.

@Mors I'm using a bag and my plastic tubing has coiled... I am afraid it will let air into the bag ... any tips on straightening it out? ... also when and if the tank runs out of gas ... let's say you are unconscious or dead, is the tank hazardous to someone walking in since the valve will still be open...

 

[Mors]

I'm using a bag and my plastic tubing has coiled... I am afraid it will let air into the bag ... any tips on straightening it out?

I would defer to @Greenberg on that because I don't have firsthand experience with the exit bag; I have the SCBA mask with demand valve instead.

I have also read that one should avoid making the bag too tight to the point that exhaled carbon dioxide cannot escape because this would be very unpleasant.

also when and if the tank runs out of air ... let's say you are unconscious or dead, is the tank hazardous to someone walking in ...

This would depend on the amount of time that has elapsed since the cylinder released the last of the nitrogen and whether it was released in an enclosed location, and if it was, the dimensions of the room and its ventilation.

Personally, I don't want to worry about making calculations or take any chances of
harming first responders or my family so I plan to either do it one of three ways:

1. In my bedroom when no one else is home. I'll leave my window open, door closed and a note on the door stating "warning: oxygen-deficient environment (nitrogen)".

2. In my car parked in a remote area. Windows rolled up with the same note as above taped to the window.

3. If I can manage to hike one of my favorite trails again, I will do it from a vantage point with a great view from the summit. I won't even have to worry about a note as the nitrogen will disperse into the atmosphere.

I'd have to get a lighter and smaller tank for the last option though.

 

[Greenberg]

I would defer to @Greenberg on that because I don't have firsthand experience with the exit bag; I have the SCBA mask with demand valve instead.

I have also read that one should avoid making the bag too tight to the point that exhaled carbon dioxide cannot escape because this would be very unpleasant.

This would depend on the amount of time that has elapsed since the cylinder released the last of the nitrogen and whether it was released in an enclosed location, and if it was, the dimensions of the room and its ventilation.

Personally, I don't want to worry about making calculations or take any chances of
harming first responders or my family so I plan to either do it one of three ways:

1. In my bedroom when no one else is home. I'll leave my window open, door closed and a note on the door stating "warning: oxygen-deficient environment (nitrogen)".

2. In my car parked in a remote area. Windows roles up with the same note as above taped to the window.

3. If I can manage to hike one of my favorite trails again, I will do it from a vantage point with a great view from the summit. I won't even have to worry about a note as the nitrogen will disperse into the atmosphere.

I'd have to get a lighter and smaller tank for the last option though.

In regards to the tube coiling, I would suggest that you purchase anti-kink oxygen tubing. The tubing interior is irregularly shaped and prevents kinking.

So basically, you should really just pass out before you notice ANYTHING , i.e. dizziness or panic?

@greenbmy hose is coiled as it is plastic so it looks around. I had to tape into the bag but I'm worried it will let too much air in .. any suggestions?
@Greenberg my hose is coiled as it is plastic so it loops around. I had to tape into the bag but I'm worried it will let too much air in .. any suggestions?

@Greenberg gotcha

@Apricity can you share a link to the thread?

About coiling, try to tape the tubing from inside the bag from top to bottom so that the gas will disperse itself from the top and force exhaled air to the bottom where the gap is.

 

[Apricity]

@LastTime

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/nitrogen-update.74569/post-1346537

 

[FromGermany]

The inner mask around chin, mouth and nose of the Fire Escape Hood, used as a replacement for the classic exit bag, shown in this post https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/page-42#post-1248956, fits well, but if one will shake his head,, the fitting is lost.

In this inner mask "chamber" at the bottom, there is the one-way-valve. If the fit of the inner mask is lost, you have still the hood over the head, so that the flow of gas still continues inside the hood, but I see a potential problem with the car valve, glued on the (dummy) filter of the hood. It could tear off.

 

[luten]

i got my equipment ready by aug last year, 1800L N2, Medical Grade Click Regulator, modified Re-breathing Masks. It did cost me a few bucks, and it want easy to get the cylinder. I had to contact various agencies, only 1 was willing to supply. Here you can only lease, and you must register your cylinder (location, intent of use, and give the supplier the authority to come inspect the unit at your premisses.

TBH; i dont think i would find another tank, it was my lucky day.

There is now very little left to think about.

 

[Interloper]

Here you can only lease, and you must register your cylinder (location, intent of use, and give the supplier the authority to come inspect the unit at your premisses.

Where do you live? That's annoying. Did you go with intent of welding?

 

[luten]

Where do you live? That's annoying. Did you go with intent of welding?

unfortunately i cant tell you where i live. Intent is so unique that it might give me away. I can say that they offered small disposable welding cylinders, and it wasnt even N2, some other gas. They refused big cylinders without confirming your welding company registration details. To make even things worse, they only dropoff and collect cylinders at your business premises. You cant collect. Then the medical grade regulator also took a long time to ship, was expensive, and hard to find.



TBH it was a nightmare, I almost gave up on it. But at the end everything came together.

 

[Apricity]

Not sure if this is already posted here, but I found a playlist on YouTube about exit bags.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Not sure if this is already posted here, but I found a playlist on YouTube about exit bags.

A very interesting video. Seen it many times and oddly look at it when feeling down. Another good one is doing it with Chi. I think it is listed in this site for all to see.

 

[Apricity]

A very interesting video. Seen it many times and oddly look at it when feeling down. Another good one is doing it with Chi. I think it is listed in this site for all to see.

That's just the first video, there's supposed to be a whole playlist of 20+ videos

 

[mandyjohnuk]

That's just the first video, there's supposed to be a whole playlist of 20+ videos

Hi.
How do I get to see them.

 

[FromGermany]

Hi.
How do I get to see them.

Click on the triple-bar-menu-symbol at the video thumbnail. The videos in the playlist are shown there.