Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Shakespear's Brother]

what I found out about how Cyberweld plays a dishonest and dangerous game by shipping expired cylinders to residential addresses.

Yes, I would like to know about this, looking forward to your post.

 

[MissingIt]

Attached is a picture (cwcyl) of the cylinder I received from Cyberweld. It has no DOT stamp or markings whatsoever. The test date is 2014/11 with no star, which according to the weld shop I went to means it expires in 5 years. I confirmed this by searching the net. The cylinder was shipped Jan 2020, so this cylinder was shipped from Cyberweld already expired.

From https://store.cyberweld.com/shielgascyl22.html :
"All cylinders are brand new 3AA2015 with ten year test." - Absolute lie. Cylinder does not have 3AA stamp and is dated 2014 with a 5 year test. They also repeatedly answer in the Q&A that the cylinders are DOT certified. Also a lie unless there is some way to DOT certify cylinders without them being DOT stamped.

The weld shop informed me that shady places will do this to sell welding kits with a cylinder to save a few bucks. They also said they will underfill the cylinders (mine came at 1900 PSI, underfilled) for safety reasons, whereas most places will 10% overfill (2200 PSI) which is perfectly safe on DOT tested cylinders.

Luckily they were nice and only charged me $35 for a retest even though they said they would probably have to toss the cylinder. You can see my new cylinder in setup2 and setup3 has a DOT-3AA mark on it which the CW cylinder should have had, and the date stamp is 12A15 (12/2015) with a + and a star after it. It was filled to 2150 PSI.

In the end, this probably doesn't matter unless you think you are going to need to swap/refill the cylinder at a local shop, but it is a very shady business practice all around and I seriously doubt CW would ship an expired cylinder to a business address who would catch this immediately, so I think they are taking advantage of residential shipments.


Anyways, in setup2, you can see all the fittings together. I strongly recommend using 1/4" tubing over 3/8". I got 3/8" the first time and the tubing is still quite large and because they are coiled up on the shelf, it was dragging the bag strongly to one side trying to recoil itself during my test. The 1/4" is a lot thinner so it has less leverage, although I did stretch it out and put some heavy books on each end overnight to help get rid of the coil.

In setup3, I'm using a plastic bin you can find anywhere with some heavy tools in it to weigh the bin down and keep the cylinder in place. It isn't going anywhere.

I also recommend your standard everyday Reynolds Wrap large bags (19x23.5in). I had ordered something off of Amazon previously and they were made of a different plastic that was much noisier/crinklier/however you want to describe it. The Reynolds are made of a softer, nicer plastic and seem plenty big enough.


I have one more question for everyone - the recommended sitting up position has something to do with keeping the bag on your head right? I have really bad issues with my neck that make regular sitting like this difficult. So for my second and hopefully successful attempt I plan on lying flat on my bed. I tested it with the bag on and thrashed around and the bag seemed no worse for wear, but it wasn't filled with anything except ambient air. Please let me know if there is a serious problem with this strategy.

Thanks

 

[morningdew]

Has anyone tested their gas for purity?

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

Hello, I have three questions that I haven't been able to find the answers to.

1. Everyone says that the EB should fit snuggly around the neck, and I've seen people mention that you should be able to fit two fingers in between, but what exactly does this mean? Should I be able to fit two fingers without stretching the elastic cord?

2. I only have regular kitchen chairs that I could sit on once it's time. Would putting such a chair in a corner (to lean against the chair and a wall) work or is there too much of a risk that I would fall off? I also have an office chair but I assume this is a no go since it has wheels and can spin. Finally I have a large moving box that I could sit in, would that be a better option?

3. I am signed up as an organ donor, anyone know if my organs would be able to be used if I go through with this method? (I am planning on sending a scheduled mail to the police so they would find me in time)

 

[MissingIt]

@tooStupidForExitBag

1. Basically, just don't make it so loose that air is getting in. It should be tight but you don't want to strangle yourself with it, and there should be some room for gas to flow out. You don't need much.

2. If you only have chairs you can easily fall off, that is probably bad. I plan on lying down because sitting isn't comfortable for me because of health issues. I also think it will be easier to relax while lying down. It isn't recommended, but I haven't found any solid reason why. If you reinforce a box with a lot of packing tape so that it is very unlikely to break, that would probably be fine. Try testing your potential spot with the bag on, hose attached, and move all around (maybe even thrash a bit) and make sure the hose, bag, and cylinder do not get ripped/obstructed/knocked over, etc. If you fall from some height, you won't have pressure inside your bag while testing so it won't react the same way as if it were pressurized. A fall from a chair might make the bag pop in this scenario, so avoid at all costs.

3. Organs die very quickly without oxygen or without being made very cold. I'm no expert on the subject, but unless an ambulance arrives within minutes of your death, your organs probably won't be usable. I don't think you want to try timing that because that leaves a very good chance that you will be resuscitated.

 

[SugarbushMtn]

40CF is 1132 liters so at 15lpm flow that is 75minutes of flow or half with a 20CF tank.

 

[Zimcity]

Usually I see the amount listed in m³ and Bar or just litres. I have a 5 litre tank and it cost me $500. I have calculated I'll need over 2000L with my planned setup.

I assume the pressure means that it's actually alot more in the tank once the content is in normal atmosphere pressure?

I expect I would have to check back with the store how much pressure is in their tanks and calculate what that equates once it fills my box? Anyone know the formula? Since I'm reading it takes about $200 for enough gas to suicide I don't expect I have to pay Tens of thousands just because I'm building a small plexiglass box instead of a hood over my head.

So say it's 5L under 200bar/2500psi... Is that enough for N2?

 

[color_me_gone]

@Zimcity

5L at 200 atmospheres (bar) = 5 * 200 = 1000L

I am concerned about your plexiglass box.
It is very important to purge ALL native air from the box before filling with N2.
With the exit bag, this is accomplished by flattening the bag, then allowing it to fill with N2 before pulling down over your face.
How would you accomplish that with a plexiglass box?

 

[Zimcity]

@Zimcity

5L at 200 atmospheres (bar) = 5 * 200 = 1000L

I am concerned about your plexiglass box.
It is very important to purge ALL native air from the box before filling with N2.
With the exit bag, this is accomplished by flattening the bag, then allowing it to fill with N2 before pulling down over your face.
How would you accomplish that with a plexiglass box?

For my plan I was intending to use a one way valve either on the top or the bottom of the box (depending on Wich of the gasses are heavier) so that the box slowly fills up with the gas and box oxygen and carbon is replaced with nitrogen.

I am editing a video of my kids to loop and I was hoping to just fall asleep watching them and listening to their laughter. I imagine that must be a wonderful way to die and I would prefer it to exhaling once, putting a bag over my head and more or less instantly become unconscious with my last thoughts likely being fear and not bliss.

 

[MissingIt]

@Zimcity , 80% of the atmosphere is already nitrogen. I don't think a valve is going to displace the oxygen or CO2 in the box in any reasonable amount of time. The density of the gasses is next to irrelevant as their kinetic energy will keep them mixed just like what already happens in Earth's atmosphere (also, your breath!). It's possible that the nitrogen will eventually overwhelm the oxygen/CO2, but it's also possible that the oxygen will last long enough until your tank is empty and then the CO2 will rise and you will feel like you are suffocating.

 

[Zimcity]

@Zimcity , 80% of the atmosphere is already nitrogen. I don't think a valve is going to displace the oxygen or CO2 in the box in any reasonable amount of time. The density of the gasses is next to irrelevant as their kinetic energy will keep them mixed just like what already happens in Earth's atmosphere (also, your breath!). It's possible that the nitrogen will eventually overwhelm the oxygen/CO2, but it's also possible that the oxygen will last long enough until your tank is empty and then the CO2 will rise and you will feel like you are suffocating.

Hmm. I was originally planning to use argon Wich is how I intended this to work. Argon should sink to the bottom and press the oxygen out the valve at the rate at which argon goes in. (Im not sure about the co2 weight Wise but I was going to research it more). I couldn't get argon anywhere as it was sold out everywhere I went so I switched to nitrogen. Thank you for making me aware of this.

 

[color_me_gone]

@Zimcity
I would recommend using He, because it is 10 times lighter density than any other gases.
Put your purge valve at bottom of the tank.
Put yourself inside the box, then seal it shut, turn on the gas, and wait for the purge to take effect.
Don't use He for balloons, as it is now mixed with 20% air cause too many people were using it to ctb.

 

[MissingIt]

Argon or helium won't make any difference. CO2 is denser than most gases in the atmosphere, but CO2 does not settle on the ground and kill us all. Gases contain a lot of energy and they will always randomly mix at standard temperature and pressure. You can't separate them the way you're suggesting. You would need to overwhelm the atmosphere you're in with an inert gas. How much gas that would take is probably a very complex calculation, way above my pay grade. This is a very risky proposition with what I'd wager is a higher chance of causing brain damage than brain death.

 

[Zimcity]

@Zimcity
I would recommend using He, because it is 10 times lighter density than any other gases.
Put your purge valve at bottom of the tank.
Put yourself inside the box, then seal it shut, turn on the gas, and wait for the purge to take effect.
Don't use He for balloons, as it is now mixed with 20% air cause too many people were using it to ctb.

I was also considering HE, but since there seems to be so much polluted helium on the market I was afraid to use it. I found a place thats supposed to sell 95% HE but I wasn't sure if that was pure enough and this isn't the sort of thing you can ask about. I mean I was really nervous buying the nitrogen. I felt it would be SO obvious I'm buying it to kill myself. As far as my research has informed me, argon or nitrogen is safer than HE. and with my luck I'll just manage to give myself brain damage if I don't do it right. I very much appreciate the comments on what I have to research in order to make this as safe as possible for both me and my surroundings.

This is my first time killing myself, you know, and I'm hoping I won't have to practice to make perfect :)

Argon or helium won't make any difference. CO2 is denser than most gases in the atmosphere, but CO2 does not settle on the ground and kill us all. Gases contain a lot of energy and they will always randomly mix at standard temperature and pressure. You can't separate them the way you're suggesting. You would need to overwhelm the atmosphere you're in with an inert gas. How much gas that would take is probably a very complex calculation, way above my pay grade. This is a very risky proposition with what I'd wager is a higher chance of causing brain damage than brain death.

Thank you for commenting.
My understanding is that, at least argon, is indeed heavier than air and will not dillute. I am told by welders that argon will settle in the lowest point in a construction and suffocate anyone located there.

I will, however, make sure to check up on these comments. I am prepared to find out that maybe I won't be able to just slowly fall asleep like I want to. If worst comes to worst I'll just have to do it quicker. Thank you.

 

[color_me_gone]

@Zimcity
Everybody who comes here hates the idea of the bag over your head, me too!
But it is the only method with a proven track record.
All other ideas with replacing the bag with something else come with a risk, sometimes substantial.

 

[MissingIt]

My understanding is that, at least argon, is indeed heavier than air and will not dillute. I am told by welders that argon will settle in the lowest point in a construction and suffocate anyone located there.

There is no opportunity for any gas to settle with you breathing in and out and a hose pushing 15+ LPM into the container. This is not a situation to rely on folk wisdom. Good luck.

 

[Heartsick Traveler]

Hmm. I was originally planning to use argon Wich is how I intended this to work. Argon should sink to the bottom and press the oxygen out the valve at the rate at which argon goes in. (Im not sure about the co2 weight Wise but I was going to research it more). I couldn't get argon anywhere as it was sold out everywhere I went so I switched to nitrogen. Thank you for making me aware of this.

MissingIt is absolutely right. The plexiglass box idea is a formula for suffering and disaster.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Some information for all who may need it. I purchased a Smith Argon Flowgauge Regulator 31-50-580 and here is what I needed to make this work with 1/4" tubing instead of the heavy gas hose. It has a 5/8" - 18RH internal female connector which I *believe* is called a CGA 032 connection. I am not an inert gas expert. 5/8" is apparently the outside dimension while 3/8" is the inside (and important) dimension. I don't know why they do it this way.

A flare adapter connects to the regulator and allows you to attach a normal (non-flared) nut. I used this to attach a hex bushing that takes the 3/8" inside dimension down to 1/4" which allows a connection for a 1/4" hose barb. See attached image for all the pieces. You may be able to skip the hex bushing depending on what your hardware store has in stock or what you can find online. This is just how I made mine work, and should give you resources to find exactly what you need online if you prefer to do it that way.

I will make one more post on the final setup and what I found out about how Cyberweld plays a dishonest and dangerous game by shipping expired cylinders to residential addresses.

For some reason SS rotated the picture, I don't know why.

Hi, Could you give us links to those 3 adapters and bushings ? If that is not allowed in the public forum by the rules could I PM you to inquire about these links?

 

[SugarbushMtn]

I need to point out something. The inert gasses like oxygen, nitrogen and argon are measured in what's called "molecular weight". Oxygen and nitrogen have very similar molecular weights which is why you can use an oxygen regulator with a tank of nitrogen and get the 15 LPM needed for this method.

However argon has a heavier molecular weight than those other two gasses. Consequently - based on statements other members have made on various threads here - you need a flow rate of 17-19 LPM if using argon for the exit bag technique.

Unless you havea a regulator specifically for Argon, which are also easy to find.


Ordered a 40CF filled Argon tank for $180 and an argon specific lpm bubble regulator/flow for $25 which has proper CGA580 fitting already. Need tubing and bag.

Thinking sitting in a car slightly reclined with tank in other seat on side so wont tip. Seatbelted in will help keep me in place. Want to restrict hands as well, maybe just under the seatbelt is enough, maybe more such as a bungee cord around wrists. Dont want to pull bag off unknowingly so restricting hands. Another way would be to make it very hard to get bag off by using non elastic cord that is 2 fingers loose still but not loose enough to pull off over head once placed. That and a thicker bag that would be hard to tear off. Car also allows me to go anywhere, find someplace with nobody around.

Getting ready. A certain peace in this planning somehow...

Thoughts?
Thanks



A way of practicing would be to do all of this using regular room air instead of inert gas. Either from a pump or tank. From an air pump you could practice as many times as needed until comfortable with it all. You could do every step over and over until sure.

 

[color_me_gone]

Thoughts?

Just a thought - -

If everything is functioning correctly, you shouldn't pull the bag off, because:
1) you will be unconscious, and
2) your hypercapnic alarm shouldn't be triggered, because CO2 will continue to be purged from your body.

If something malfunctions, then your hypercapnic alarm could be triggered.

In that case, you would want to be able to pull the bag off, because dying on CO2 is a horrible way to go.

If it were me,
I wouldn't want to disable that capability by tying hands or making the bag impossible to remove.

 

[SugarbushMtn]

Just a thought - -

If everything is functioning correctly, you shouldn't pull the bag off, because:
1) you will be unconscious, and
2) your hypercapnic alarm shouldn't be triggered, because CO2 will continue to be purged from your body.

If something malfunctions, then your hypercapnic alarm could be triggered.

In that case, you would want to be able to pull the bag off, because dying on CO2 is a horrible way to go.

If it were me,
I wouldn't want to disable that capability by tying hands or making the bag impossible to remove.

A good consideration..agreed

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

May as well share my experience. I only had the bag over my face for around 10 seconds before my SI forced me to remove it. But as far as physical experience went, I felt almost nothing. The only physical sensation I felt was a slight lightheadedness, as everyone else claims it is a peaceful method.

 

[FlowersOfDoubt]

Hello,

Hopefully this is the right thread!

Trying to figure out if this regulator will work for nitrogen.

Thanks!

 

[Hoopali]

I have a number of methods I've been toying with and this is one of them (others being partial or SN which both have a form of brutality attached to them imo). I have all my kit (I'm using nitrogen) and it's all set up.

I have been doing a bit of testing today. In particular, I wanted to see if I could get to that feeling of "euphoria" that is mentioned by pilots, as well as practicing makes the thing a little easier when the time comes as I will know what to expect.

I set everything up and put the (nitrogen filled) bag over my head and set a timer on my phone for 20 seconds. Then I started to breath in the bag steadily. It seemed ok and the timer went off so I reset it and let it go again (whilst remaining in the bag) so I was in there for 40 seconds. I took it off at that point as I didn't want to push my luck.

The second time I did it I used an oximeter on my finger. This allowed me to see my oxygen stats. A normal person should have in the range 95-99% if I remember correctly.

So this time I put the bag on my head and repeated the above test. Wow! The oximeter started at 98 and then dropped faster and faster. It got to 61 by the time I pulled the bag off, and that was only 20 seconds. I didn't dare do another 20 at this point. My stats then went back up very fast.

I suspect the first test I did must have been flawed somehow, though I will never know as I didn't use the oximeter on that one, but the second showed that this absolutely works fast.

Anyway - up to now I haven't felt the euphoria, except knowing that this will work, but happily I also did not feel any pain or anything remotely uncomfortable either. I have a very slight light headedness but maybe that is just excitement (or maybe that is the euphoria...).

I would recommend if you are exploring this method to obtain an oximeter; they are not expensive and are useful for gauging whether something is working or not.

As for the plexiglass box thing, if you can do it then fair enough. You mentioned watching videos of your kids. The bag I have is see through anyway. I can look at photographs (which I do), see my phone (for the timer) and read the oximeter no problem with it. But it's your call, I don't want to push you one way or the other.

Oh, and @FlowersOfDoubt, that would probably work. I also use an additional flow meter on the side too. If you get a separate flow meter then pretty much any regulator will do as long as it can output at a level applicable for the flow meter.

 

[Hoopali]

I've seen a lot of evidence also that nitrogen is painLess. I bought a nitrogen tank online last year . Then they stopped selling them online. I should have bought another one for testing and practice like you did. Now i guess even welding shops are closed because of the lockdown?

It goes to show you i shouldn't have put off what for tomorow what i could have done today. I lost the great opportunity to buy a larger and another tank online delivered to your door because i procrastinated. Now even welding shops are on lockdown? I would hate to go in person to try to buy one though. Would they report you to the police for trying to commit suicide if they find out i'm not a welder or a business? I'm in the USA. I don't know how things are in other countries . But if anyone sees this could you help out with some info on this?

This video shows the nitrogen method is painLess :

I'm in the uk so cannot help you with sourcing unfortunately but I got mine during the lockdown. I got a 20L tank at 200bar so ~4000 litres so plenty to test with. Just as a note though, it's incredibly heavy!! Getting it upstairs was a nightmare

I love that video. Didn't like him as a politician, but he does make a good documentary.

 

[Hoopali]

This was the oximeter after 40 seconds today. Oxygen sats down to 65 from "usual range" of 95-99%. My vision was starting to grow dim at that point so pulled out as still only in "exploration" phase. Still no discomfort (except a slight worry that I may go too far!)

That being said, if I accidentally ctb whilst doing this then everything is sorted (will, note, useful information document with passwords to phone/comp etc) so if I disappear for a few days I may have taken the testing too far!

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

This was the oximeter after 40 seconds today. Oxygen sats down to 65 from "usual range" of 95-99%. My vision was starting to grow dim at that point so pulled out as still only in "exploration" phase. Still no discomfort (except a slight worry that I may go too far!)

That being said, if I accidentally ctb whilst doing this then everything is sorted (will, note, useful information document with passwords to phone/comp etc) so if I disappear for a few days I may have taken the testing too far!

View attachment 31387

That seems to be an accurate oximeter. After some heavy googling i found that Oxygen sats at 56% is the average for going unconscious and you were at 65% . Can you post the model name of that oximeter?

Maybe another 5 seconds and unconsciousness sets in , you pass out. That also agrees with other research i did on the time to unconsciousness in a pure nitrogen atmosphere 45 seconds . 45 painless seconds to end all my terrible problems doesn't sound too bad at all.

 

[Hoopali]

That seems to be an accurate oximeter. After some heavy googling i found that Oxygen sats at 56% is the average for going unconscious and you were at 65% . Can you post the model name of that oximeter?

Maybe another 5 seconds and unconsciousness sets in , you pass out. That also agrees with other research i did on the time to unconsciousness in a pure nitrogen atmosphere 45 seconds . 45 painless seconds to end all my terrible problems doesn't sound too bad at all.

Hi peaceful, sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

The item I got was "Lovia Blood Oxygen Saturation Monitor for Pulse Rate and SpO2 Level with LED Screen" but when I got it, it was almost a quarter of the price it is now (£16 vs current price of £55). Not sure why it's gone up so much, maybe they are supplying them to hospitals? It was also white where now the picture on the site I got it from shows pink so not sure what's going on there. Tbh most oximeters are approximately the same - so just search for "oximeter finger adult" (sounds worse than it is) and you should be able to get one for around £20 or equivalent.

Glad my experiments agree with your research, and yes, to me this seems the perfect way. Just getting it all together that puts people off I guess, it did for me for a while but I'm really pleased with it now.

I'll bear in mind the extra 5 seconds/56% saturation in mind for future testing. As per that video and per those stats you shared there is little warning except vision and the user believes that everything is fine the whole time. Until it's not. Beautiful way to go

 

[sam12]

I have a regulator which is i psi could someone please tell me the value of psi to 15 lpm.

 

[Living sucks]

Oh how i wish i could do this. Getting nitrogen is impossible for me since i can't get it online. And i am physically unable. I don't like the idea of a mask on my face but maybe practicing does help. It's the knowing it's over that I can't get passed. Even tho my life has been over for 3 years,