Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[color_me_gone]

I have a regulator which is i psi could someone please tell me the value of psi to 15 lpm.

There is not a direct correlation between pressure (psi) and flow (lpm).
You would need to know the amount of restriction to the flow in your system.
Then: flow = pressure / restriction

 

[Smithereens]

Can a Non-Rebreather mask be used with Nitrogen?
These seem to be cheap $20 Australian and the wiki definition indicates that they divert exhaled breath out of the mask and only take breath in from the bag which medics connect to oxygen.
If it were connected to Nitrogen instead would it have the required effect?
ie. not breathing CO2 back in but only Nitrogen.
A very good seal would also be needed....

 

[checking out]

My experience was that I soon began to feel tingling in my hands, as if they were falling asleep. A short moment later I began to get dizzy, and my vision went grey around the edges. Each of the three times I have attempted this method, that's as far as I got before I flinched and removed the bag.

I did not experience any pain whatsoever, and no real discomfort aside from the mild tingling in my hands.

I do not believe I have suffered any ill effects from three aborted attempts. I had a bit of a cough for a couple days after my third attempt, but I can't say for sure whether that was attributable to the N2. It concerns me only in that this method demands that you be able to breathe freely in order for it to be effective, and I don't want to have ruined my chances to use it later, when I have summoned my courage.

My greatest difficulty is that I have been very stressed during my attempts, and could not keep my breathing steady and deep. This undoubtedly lengthened the amount of time it should have taken for me to black out.

In the stress of the situation, I experienced time dilation —in other words, I can't tell you how long it took for me to feel dizzy; it might have been five seconds, it might have been a minute and a half. It wasn't very long —but it was long enough for me to flinch.

From my experience, this is as painless, comfortable, and potentially peaceful a way to ctb as it is rumored to be. The only drawbacks that I can see are that it requires a lot of equipment —cylinder, regulator, hose, bag— and that there is a surprising amount of time for your survival instinct to kick in, or for second thoughts.

As I wrote at the beginning, I hope other forum members can fill in some of the blanks I have left —specifically, I have seen a lot of questions about tank sizes outside the US that I cannot answer.

I don't wish anyone good luck at catching the bus. I wish we could all find our way to a joyous and satisfying life that would make death an unfortunate reality rather than a longed-for relief. But all of us here know that the Fates aren't always that kind, and so I wish you all the most peaceful relief from your pain that you can find, and if that peace is brought by Death, I hope Death comes gently.

Hi Tired Horse and thankyou for your detailed and informative posts. The PPh states that 'once a breath is taken, loss of consciousness is almost immediate...' This does not appear to have been the case for you. If 'almost immediate' loss of consciousness could be achieved it would solve the SI issue. Perhaps you're right - the stress made it difficult for you to breathe as required. Thankyou for highlighting this potential issue.

 

[boppe]

I would like to ask something about this method.

1) Where does it flow out?
Either you have a bag or mask, right? In both ways, I see small tube/pipe with the gas going in. But what you breath in, you breath out. Where does it go? I don't see any flow out tube/pipe.

2) Is 99.9% Helium, reliable?

 

[color_me_gone]

Where does it flow out?

It flows out of the bottom of the bag. You are supposed to leave enough looseness around you neck to be able to stick two fingers between the bag and your neck. When you breath in, you are getting 100% inert gas that you are using. When you breathe out, you are expelling CO2, even after you have been in the bag for quite some time. This is because your blood has plenty of oxygen in it when you start the process. After you start the process, the blood oxygen starts diminishing. As the blood oxygen is used up by the body via metabolism, this creates CO2, which you continue to exhale. The reason for the continuous flow of inert gas, and the venting at the bottom of the bag, is to remove the exhaled CO2 from the bag, otherwise you will breath the CO2 back in, and trigger your hypercapnic alarm (the feeling of suffocation).

Is 99.9% Helium, reliable?

Yes, but be sure it is, in fact 99.9 pure. Balloon gas suppliers stopped selling pure helium back in 2015. Some still claim the gas they sell is 99.9 pure, when, in fact, it isn't. Pure helium is NOT needed to float balloons, 80/20 mixture does just fine.

 

[boppe]

I have been told, what they sell is in fact 99.99% Helium. But we all know what others can do or tell in order to sell their products, right. Guess, I can't be sure. What would happened to me, if it was 80%ish as you say? They sell big bottle of 0,63m3 for $70. It seems, Helium is easy to google and shop online. Somebody stated Nitrogen. I haven't had much success looking for this chemical as looking for a Helium. I remember long time ago, when I was a kid. I was at a celebration of some kind. And we used to do a lot of silly stuff as a kids. And me and my friends bought few Helium Balloons. I inhale much as I could in one take. I have to say. I wasn't filling right afterwards. I felt like being dehydrated. I needed water immediately. I had a headache. I felt weak. Didn't feel right. Inhaling helium felt very heavy. If I breath outside air, it's light and fresh. Inhaling helium was not pleasing for me. And I had just one inhale. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe it wasn't the helium. I'm trying to imagine, inhaling Helium again. And not inhaling it just once. But as far as my knowledge goes so far about this exit bag method. I would have to inhale helium consciously for probably a few minutes. What is your experience with inhaling Helium?

 

[color_me_gone]

What is your experience with inhaling Helium?

When I was in high school, I used to work weekends as a busboy at a banquet hall, along with a few of my friends. They used to use balloons a lot, so they had a big tank of helium for filling the balloons. We used to take a deep inhale of helium, then say something. Helium makes your voice sound funny, kind of like Alvin the chipmunk. We used to do that a LOT! I never recall any funny feelings, nor did my friends. Of course, everybody is different, so I am not judging you. If you can get nitrogen, you should not have any problem with that, because the atmosphere is something like 78% nitrogen, so you are constantly breathing in nitrogen.

What would happened to me, if it was 80%ish as you say?

If the helium you bought is the 80% helium / 20% air mix, it will not hurt you, but it will not do the job you want to accomplish.

 

[Aap]

Just as an FYI, there is a reason pilots have to be specifically trained to recognize oxygen depravation or why individuals pass out so rapidly if a plane decompresses. Anxiety or contamination (either with co2 or o2) can result in panic or less than rapid unconsciousness.

The accidental deaths from individuals in a pure helium environment speak to this. It is so fast, the second they realize something is wrong, unconsciousness sets in.

 

[Sadkitty]

Hi, new here. I've read almost this entire thread so forgive me if this is redundant. I have questions about nitrogen tanks etc. Is it best to buy an empty one online and go to a local welding supply or try to purchase it all from them? I'm a bad liar so wouldn't be able to make a cover story. Everywhere I look online wants information and for you to register on their site. I was hoping this would be a little easier. I'm in the US if that helps. I want to get this process started; hoping to end it by july.

 

[color_me_gone]

Cyberweld will sell you the tank filled with nitrogen, ships via UPS to anywhere in the continental US, no questions asked.

 

[Sadkitty]

Cyberweld will sell you the tank filled with nitrogen, ships via UPS to anywhere in the continental US, no questions asked.

Really? Because all I saw was argon and CO2. I'm maybe thinking of argon because of ease of purchase. So on to finding a regulator etc. I will read the threads to see if I can find the info I need but I'll be back if I can't

 

[pane]

Sadkitty, Cyberweld USED to sell full tanks of nitrogen over the internet but stopped that last year because they realized what some customers were using them for. As you saw, they still sell filled tanks of argon which according to Fightingsioux is perfectly fine for the inert gas/exit bag method. (Don't use the argon/CO2 mix they offer.)

To find info about regulators, do a search using the word "regulator" and put either my name or Fightinsioux in the "By:" box and you'll find numerous posts about this.

 

[Sadkitty]

Sadkitty, Cyberweld USED to sell full tanks of nitrogen over the internet but stopped that last year because they realized what some customers were using them for. As you saw, they still sell filled tanks of argon which according to Fightingsioux is perfectly fine for the inert gas/exit bag method. (Don't use the argon/CO2 mix they offer.)

Oh, that much I knew ha! I'm just so not a technical person. I'm reading his posts trying to figure this out. I think I know what regulator to buy. Just not sure how to apply the tubing to it. Though of course I haven't purchased it yet. I saw some on Amazon that appeared to have the Christmas tree apparatus already on it. But the rate of flow was in a measurement I didn't understand. And I didn't know if I should trust a $30 regulator when all the others I've seen are significantly more expensive. I appreciate all the help from you guys. This is quite intimidating.

 

[morningdew]

Oh, that much I knew ha! I'm just so not a technical person. I'm reading his posts trying to figure this out. I think I know what regulator to buy. Just not sure how to apply the tubing to it. Though of course I haven't purchased it yet. I saw some on Amazon that appeared to have the Christmas tree apparatus already on it. But the rate of flow was in a measurement I didn't understand. And I didn't know if I should trust a $30 regulator when all the others I've seen are significantly more expensive. I appreciate all the help from you guys. This is quite intimidating.

there is a post on this forum that shows which one will work. same one a well known persons sell under a brewing company name

 

[Righttodie]

Just wondering if an oxygen tubing is different from a canula.

And I wonder if it will work as the screenshot above mentions that a tubing may not do more than 5 l/min, and the high flow ones don't do more than 15

I had bought a cannula as it fits onto my nitrogen regulator's hose barb, but now not sure if it will work or not anymore

If anyone knows anything about this, please let me know. Thanks

 

[Sadkitty]

View attachment 35606

Just wondering if an oxygen tubing is different from a canula.

And I wonder if it will work as the screenshot above mentions that a tubing may not do more than 5 l/min, and the high flow ones don't do more than 15

I had bought a cannula as it fits onto my nitrogen regulator's hose barb, but now not sure if it will work or not anymore

If anyone knows anything about this, please let me know. Thanks

The cannula is the part of the tubing that

View attachment 35606

Just wondering if an oxygen tubing is different from a canula.

And I wonder if it will work as the screenshot above mentions that a tubing may not do more than 5 l/min, and the high flow ones don't do more than 15

I had bought a cannula as it fits onto my nitrogen regulator's hose barb, but now not sure if it will work or not anymore

If anyone knows anything about this, please let me know. Thanks

I did not see a screenshot. But the canulas a is the part that actually goes in your nose. So yes of course there's going to be a difference between a pediatric and a high flow cannula. All you need is the tubing though. The cannula I believe would be detrimental to the exit bag set up. If I understand your post correctly.

 

[Righttodie]

The cannula is the part of the tubing that

I did not see a screenshot. But the canulas a is the part that actually goes in your nose. So yes of course there's going to be a difference between a pediatric and a high flow cannula. All you need is the tubing though. The cannula I believe would be detrimental to the exit bag set up. If I understand your post correctly.

I will try to look for just for a tubing then to be on the safe side. Thanks

Was also wondering if the flow would be managed if I cut the extension of the cannula that gets narrow at one end to be put in the nostrils, so that the whole length of the tubing is of the same size in the end.

Maybe flow won't be an issue then ?

 

[Sadkitty]

I was re reading some of this thread and now I'm concerned about cyberweld. Has anyone had any experience with them not sending what they advertise?

 

[james244]

I agree with Shewaitsforme: you would have a difficult time reducing the available O2 in such a large, gas-permeable space. Technically yes, you could do it, but it would take a lot of N2 and careful preparation of the car.

Don't confuse inert gas asphyxiation (IGA) with CO poisoning. They work through completely different mechanisms.

With IGA you are displacing O2 from your environment, thus depriving your body of necessary O2, while flushing away the CO2 that would trigger your body's hypercapnic alarm and cause involuntary self-preservation. To effectively displace the O2, you need a controlled environment from which the O2 can first be flushed and then excluded. So first you need to get rid of all the air, then you need to keep out any further air, then you need to flush away your exhaled CO2. The smaller the space, and the more readily the space is sealed, the easier this is to accomplish.

When you put an exit bag over your head, you are creating a low-O2 environment. The CO2 is flushed away by the constant flow of inert gas, preventing alarm, and you are allowing your body to use up whatever O2 it has in its bloodstream while not providing it any more.

Short version: The O2 in your body runs out and isn't replaced.

With CO poisoning, you aren't displacing air/O2 from the environment; you are introducing into the environment a molecule (CO) which binds more readily to your blood than O2 does. You're providing your haemoglobin with an easier alternative than O2; your body grabs the CO and ignores the O2. Since your blood can only carry so many gas molecules at a time, with the CO taking up all the room in your bloodstream your body is starved of O2.

When you climb into your car with a barbecue that's putting out CO, there's still plenty of O2 in the car's environment. You're not excluding the O2 as you need to do with IGA --replacing the air with a completely different gas-- you're adding to the existing air a new substance (CO) that your body prefers to O2. This preferential-molecule process makes it much simpler to manage the environment on a large scale. You don't need to get rid of the O2, you just need to provide enough CO to take up all the space for O2 in your bloodstream.

Short version: The O2 available to your body is ignored in favor of CO.

dear tiredhorse, thanks for your contribution
what do you think that the main cause of failure is, when it comes to the inert gas method?

 

[Mare Tranquillitatis]

dear tiredhorse, thanks for your contribution
what do you think that the main cause of failure is, when it comes to the inert gas method?

I think, tiredhorse is no longer at this world.........

 

[Alain]

Just an update to my earlier post about wanting to have a mask instead of a bag over my head. I'm going for the scuba gear setup, it's really easy now i just have to plug in the adapter, open the valve and lie down. The seal seems pretty solid, that's the greatest concern really, especially with the R2D debreather, it seems cheap and commercially made. I'd rather use something tried and true like a scuba setup.

How expensive is a mask like that? I think it would be more effective than a plastic bag as it's made to be waterproof.
Also, if anyone knows where to find pure helium (nitrogene is way more expensive it seems), I'm interested.

 

[Valsalva]

Has anyone a link to Scrooges post about the method? Thx!

 

[Shakespear's Brother]

Has anyone a link to Scrooges post about the method? Thx!

Who/what is Scrooges? I don't see a user by that name on the site.

 

[Thatdude]

Does anyone know if you need muscle relaxers for this? with other like methods, I heard your body could spaz as your die, and this can cause problems.

 

[freetoleave]

Hi everyone, i already tried that method with mask, regulator and i can tell that the suffocation feeling is unbearable so that method is almost the same as drowning or anything that prevent you to breath while you are still conscious.
A way to do it would be powerful sleep pills, powerful enough to keep you unconscious while your brain produce an enormous chemical reaction due to the lack of oxygen that force you to breathe again no matter the way and the faster possible.
So that's not a reliable method, i sold my nitrogen tank because it's completly useless, except to torture someone maybe.

 

[kerolox]

Almost every reported faliure of this method I can recall reading was someone using a mask rather than a bag.

 

[Lastsauce]

the suffocation feeling is unbearable so that method is almost the same as drowning

Hi, if you use any pure enough inert gas and a bag there won't be any physical suffocation feeling.
Maybe your survival instinct kicked in or your mask failed somehow.

 

[freetoleave]

Hi, if you use any pure enough inert gas and a bag there won't be any physical suffocation feeling.
Maybe your survival instinct kicked in or your mask failed somehow.

It was pure at 99.95%, i was fully breathing and i was suffocating so the no suffering part is just a myth.

 

[cappuccinogirl]

Hi what's nitrogen gas like to get in the UK? Thanks

 

[DeepSleep]

It was pure at 99.95%, i was fully breathing and i was suffocating so the no suffering part is just a myth.

Sad to hear that. But it seems that you were too agitated, too excited, and too vigilant to make it really work.
A properly performed hypoxia is the most pleasant thing on earth. It works for everyone unless your SI takes over and make you panic.
Your time has not come yet but there was nothing wrong with the gas and such..