Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Motherfly]

For me this is way too complicated if I'm in a frame of mind to ctb. Of course everyone is different.

I found just talking and asking questions to an employe in an industrial gas store was really eye opening. There are there to help you. Don't think they are there to make you spit that you wanna kill yourself. They have absolutly no clue.

 

[yetme]

so I've assembled my set and checked it. everything works smooth. The only thing that pisses me off is a plastic bag. I need something bigger and spacey than that flappy 7/11 piece of s. So everytime I go to supermarket or a mall I check out the plastic bags. Will it fit? Will I feel comfortable in it? lol..
The other thing is the noise. The gas from a hose makes that irritating loud hiss. I guess I will need earplugs to cut that off.

 

[Righttodie]

so I've assembled my set and checked it. everything works smooth. The only thing that pisses me off is a plastic bag. I need something bigger and spacey than that flappy 7/11 piece of s. So everytime I go to supermarket or a mall I check out the plastic bags. Will it fit? Will I feel comfortable in it? lol..
The other thing is the noise. The gas from a hose makes that irritating loud hiss. I guess I will need earplugs to cut that off.

7/11 is too small isn't it ? I have 19 X 23 inches

 

[yetme]

7/11 is too small isn't it ? I have 19 X 23 inches

yeah, it freaks me out. turkey bag as well.
I have a nice spacey plastic bag, but it has holes in it. So I'm looking for a bag now.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

yeah, it freaks me out. turkey bag as well.
I have a nice spacey plastic bag, but it has holes in it. So I'm looking for a bag now.

so long as you use the elastic drawcord around your neck snugly as instructed, i think you can use a bigger bag without much trouble. It'll juts be more trouble squeezing out the CO2 from the bag, but so long as the flow rate is correct it shouldn't matter how big the bag youre starting with is if its already full of the inert gas.

 

[yetme]

so long as you use the elastic drawcord around your neck snugly as instructed, i think you can use a bigger bag without much trouble. It'll juts be more trouble squeezing out the CO2 from the bag, but so long as the flow rate is correct it shouldn't matter how big the bag youre starting with is if its already full of the inert gas.

so the reason we have to use a small-size bag is that it's easier to squeeze out CO2? Ah I see now..

 

[Backwood_tilt]

so the reason we have to use a small-size bag is that it's easier to squeeze out CO2? Ah I see now..

I don't think anyone has specified you need to use a small-size bag, an oven bag is just i think what's convenient.

Perhaps there are larger sized oven bags you can look into?

 

[Motherfly]

The gas from a hose makes that irritating loud hiss. I guess I will need earplugs to cut that off.

Tried earplugs. It's not enough. I found music with wireless earbuds works better.

 

[Saddad]

Found the same, blue tooth headphones are best. Haven't tried my gear for a while now... have been exploring benzo and opiates

 

[yetme]

Tried earplugs. It's not enough. I found music with wireless earbuds works better.

yeah the hiss noise is just too loud. I'll try headphones thanks for the tip!

 

[Proto]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

According to OP you need 600 liters with a 15lpm flow translates into 40 minutes of N2.

Here in the Netherlands we have a maximum of 50 liter nitrogen tanks, at least what i can find in the vicinity. So if it's a 50 liter tank @ 200bar do i multiply the liters by bar like this?t 50 liters x 200 bar = 10000 liters then? If the flow rate is 10 LPM the tank will be empty in 1000 minutes right?

It's a really important question i hope someone can help me with it because if i'm wrong 50 liters is 50 liters and not 10000 liters.

 

[yetme]

According to OP you need 600 liters with a 15lpm flow translates into 40 minutes of N2.

Here in the Netherlands we have a maximum of 50 liter nitrogen tanks, at least what i can find in the vicinity. So if it's a 50 liter tank @ 200bar do i multiply the liters by bar like this?t 50 liters x 200 bar = 10000 liters then? If the flow rate is 10 LPM the tank will be empty in 1000 minutes right?

It's a really important question i hope someone can help me with it because if i'm wrong 50 liters is 50 liters and not 10000 liters.

yes you are correct. 50 liters at 200 bar = 10000 liters. it's a lot of gas. that's enough to fill up a small room.
also at 20 lpm the tank will last for 500 minutes. it's 8,3 hours!!!
leave your windows open before CTB. otherwise the person who walks in the room can be affected as well.
I'm not sure that you can lift 50 liters tank. even 10 liters tank is heavy enough to carry. for 50 liters you will need a few people just to lift it

 

[Proto]

yes you are correct. 50 liters at 200 bar = 10000 liters. it's a lot of gas. that's enough to fill up a small room.
also at 20 lpm the tank will last for 500 minutes. it's 8,3 hours!!!
leave your windows open before CTB. otherwise the person who walks in the room can be affected as well.
I'm not sure that you can lift 50 liters tank. even 10 liters tank is heavy enough to carry. for 50 liters you will need a few people just to lift it

I believe you, never handled any of these cylinders but on the pictures they look huge the 50 liter ones. 10 liters should be enough it's 10l x 200 bar so 2000 liters so that's 133 minutes of gas at 15 lpm. Thanks!

 

[Backwood_tilt]

10 liters should be enough it's 10l x 200 bar so 2000 liters so that's 133 minutes of gas at 15 lpm.

is 200 bar standard for nitrogen, i.e. a 10L is always going to equate to 2000 litres?

 

[Proto]

is 200 bar standard for nitrogen, i.e. a 10L is always going to equate to 2000 litres?

From what i've seen they have them in 200 bar and 300 bar here in the netherlands.
I think i'd prefer a non-rebreathing mask it does the CO2 exhalation perfectly fine and it allows you to lie down. Still looking at alternatives for better masks, scuba gear is also an option but it's way too expensive. Some more info i found in a research paper below.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

I think i'd prefer a non-rebreathing mask it does the CO2 exhalation perfectly fine and it allows you to lie down. Still looking at alternatives for better masks, scuba gear is also an option but it's way too expensive. Some more info i found in a research paper below.

I haven't gotten my oven roasting bags yet to make my own EB, but is it really that uncomfortable?

I have been practicing it so much in my mind that it feels almost familiar, even though i haven't even held one yet.

Wikipedia on non-rebreather:

Ideally, a non-rebreather mask would not permit air from the surrounding environment to be inhaled. However, due to safety concerns regarding anti-suffocation protection in the event of a source gas failure (i.e. the oxygen cylinder being drained completely), one of the two one-way valves is normally removed, allowing inhalation of outside air to a significant degree. However, as almost all non-rebreathing masks are disposable, and manufactured in one adult size, most (from decades of clinical observation) do not provide a good seal with an individual patient's face, thus permitting the inflow of large amounts of ambient air (air follows the path of least resistance), and diluting the oxygen provided. Hence, very few patients receive anything close to 100% oxygen. Very high flows (> = 30 LPM) from the oxygen flowmeter are required to partially overcome room air dilution. Further, the larger the patient's inspiratory flow rate, the greater the dilution from air. Very little effort is required by most patients, to inspire at flow rates in excess of 50 LPM (easily seen in the pulmonary function lab with routine spirometric testing).

 

[Mr. Peabody]

So, somewhere else on these here forums, I got the link to the Dec 2019 version of the PPH and downloaded the PDF so that I could refer to its information regarding the Exit Bag (Chapter 5: Hypoxic Death & the Exit Bag).

I own a pro version of Adobe Acrobat, so I was able to modify the PDF to suit my own purposes: I pulled out just chapter 5, removed the pages that were merely containers for the (non-functional) videos, cut out those three pages about the (totally irrelevant to our purposes) "Sarco" capsule, and remade the PDF's bookmarks so that they actually and usefully pointed to properly labeled sections within the chapter.

I'm a n00b here, and I want to make sure I don't post anything that would have the admins frown upon me… but is there any way I can make this PDF I edited available to other forum members without violating any terms or rules? I think it could be of real use to others who want the PPH info on the Inert Gas Exit Bag — it is SO much easier to refer to (40 pages w/ accurate bookmarks @ 3MB) than the full PPH (477 pages @ 55MB).

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[Wiltshire]

True. But maybe there's a way to modify the bag? It's really only the fact that it's so close to my face. Hell, everytime I breath in, the bag was so close it was getting inside my mouth.

Something that creates space between the face and bag. Something like a baseball cap. But not that of course. It's too impractical.

But surely once the nitrogens flowing inside the bag, it wont be so close to your mouth as it will be more filled (assuming the nitrogen was not flowing when you were testing it with the bag actually pulled right down). When I tested my set up, the bag filled quickly - about a minute and then I could feel the nitrogen escaping round the elastic round the forehead. I swear i started to get dizzy immediately this happened. I quickly switched it off and left the room and I felt very heady. It wasn't even pulled over my head. I can't image it would be more than a few seconds to lose consciousness so you wouldn't have long to think about it. I just don't like how crackly it is.

 

[nomorepainss]

can't we do this without exit bag?
how come the O2 will flow inside when constantly nitrogen being filled inside the mask?

 

[Lastsauce]

can't we do this without exit bag?
how come the O2 will flow inside when constantly nitrogen being filled inside the mask?

You absolutely can use a mask IF you know what you are doing.™
The oven roasting bag is just the cheapest, easiest and well available everywhere and especially it's proven to work.

is 200 bar standard for nitrogen, i.e. a 10L is always going to equate to 2000 litres?

Large industrial cylinders can be at 300 bar.

 

[A3re733]

How tight should the elastic exit bag be around the neck? "Snug" is not enough.

My understanding is that the elastic should touch the skin of the neck like a choker necklace, but you should be able to slide two fingers underneath it if you wanted to. (sort of like underwear if you think about it)

Is that correct? Please answer me if you know I beg you

 

[Hendrik]

Here a summary of my exit bag / nitrogen gas experience which I did not take to the final end, since I chickened out during the actual process

Buying nitrogen gas tanks should be rather easy inside the EU where I am based

• I bought a standard 10L tank with 2000 liter nitrogen at 200 bar in a construction material shop for around 170 EUR. As expected I was not asked any questions. Gas tanks are really standard products in such shops, and I would not fear any difficult questions if you behave with normal confidence (like you would by any other product). The only thing I would pay really attention to is the safety regulations for transporting it in a passenger car (basically: tighten the tank securely inside the car, such that it cannot move in case of accident - keep windows open - avoid longer rides of several hours)
• I could also have ordered them from the known online gas providers in Germany or UK, which would have cheaper for the tank, but more expensive due to the delivery costs. I also preferred the slightly higher anonymity in the shop (although I paid with credit card ;-)
• I used a lower purity grade 2.8 corresponding to 99.8% pure nitrogen which is fully sufficient. The purity grades are typically indicated by an decimal number
  • First digit refers to the number of 9, i.e grade 2.0 corresponds to 99.0% and grade 4.0 to 99.99%
  • The 2nd digit after the decimal refers to the last digit following the last 9, i.e. grades 2.8 and 4.6 refers to 99.8% and 99.996% pure gas

Buying a pressure regular with flow meter was also easy. I ordered mine through one of the know online gas providers which is also explicitly mentioned in Five Last Acts - but it would also have been available through other online retailers or hops. Make sure that you buy the appropriate version for your inert gas (nitrogen in my case). The flow range was 3-30 liter/minute in my case.

For the connecting pipe, I bought a standard O2 pipe for medical applications which is easily available at online retailers. The advantage of those is that it fitted very nicely to the outlet of the pressure regulator. I also used standard sealing tape for gas pipes to fix it tightly, but this was probably not necessary.

The construction of the exit bag followed the detailed instructions in Five Last Acts and other books and was very easy. I first tried a roasting bag with size 45 x 55 cm, but rejected it since the plastic appeared too thin. I finally chose a transparent shopping bag with some prints, which was 55 micro meter thick. The final size after adding the cord and togglers was 35 x 45 cm, which is slightly smaller than the recommended size in the books (45 x 55cm). The bag however fitted well over my head so that should not have been a problem. The O2 pipe was attached with tape inside the bag such that the outlet was 5-10 cm above my nose. I extensively tested the bag for leaks and also ran some functional tests with the fully connected gas tank, which all worked fine.

I actual made two attempts to exit on different days but always stopped it after 5 seconds inside due to survival instinct. I followed all instructions in Five Last Acts and other resources by the book, except for a slightly higher flow speed of 20 liter/second to be on the same side. I had plenty of nitrogen (2000 liters) in the 10l tank, so gas volume was not a concern. The emptied exit bag above my head filled very quickly with nitrogen, and it was very easy to pull it down and fix the cord sufficiently. I have no reasons to believe that the set-up would not have worked if I had not chickened out before before due to survival instinct.

My final conclusion was that the time to pass out was a problem for me and that I needed a quicker method to exit which does not leave me any time for the survival instinct to kick in after the first step. My current method of choice is drop hanging which just requires an appropriate location for the drop (which I got) and a short step. I will write another post in one of the hanging threads on the preparations which were very simple.

 

[fightingsioux]

Hendrik-- Some thoughts: it's really not necessary for people to worry about what type of gas the regulator is calibrated for. As long as it connects properly to the tank, a regulator is simply a mechanical device that will work with any type of gas. You only have to adjust the flow: e.g., if it's an oxygen/argon regulator and a person is using nitrogen, just go for 19 LPM instead of 15.

As you said, with newer brass fittings, yellow gasline PTFE tape is not really necessary.

You're using the word pipe but the more proper word to use--at least in the U.S.--would be tubing. Don't want to confuse anyone!

I can't say that I agree with a plastic shopping bag for the Exit Bag, though perhaps I am misunderstanding your terminology, again might just be language problem. The thickness in mils of the average, everyday, supermarket turkey roasting bag is more than adequate for the small amount and the relatively low pressure of the gas. If a person was really anxious about it, they could simply double the bag, but it's not necessary. There are many, many sizes available and within reason--it shouldn't be skin-tight or the size of a blimp--it really doesn't matter.

The most interesting part of your post, at least to me, is why you were not able to achieve your goal with this method. As you say, it was not something inherently wrong with the materials, the way they were connected, or your procedure. You made a well-researched, well-prepared effort. When the proper materials are gathered and connected correctly, when the final procedures are followed meticulously, this method is 100% reliable and effective.

So it comes down to what you're calling survival instinct, and you're correct, but there are two types.

The first type includes things like hypercapnia (a physical reflex to the the build-up of carbon dioxide) that can include anything from wild, panicked physical actions to hiccups or yawning. The startle reflex, coughing, the mammalian diving reflex, jerking your hand away from a hot stove are all other examples.

These are deep-seated, instinctual, uncontrollable, evolutionary adaptations that are indelibly programmed in our brainstems.

The brain has no instinctive response to breathing inert gas; it just thinks you're breathing air, until you painlessly and quickly pass-out and die.

So what you experienced is the second type of survival instinct. It's psychological. But it's very powerful and very real, perhaps just as powerful and real as any physically instinctual brainstem reflex. And just as difficult to control.

Some people call it the will to live; others self-preservation, fear of dying, a primitive force that clings to life. On and on. Religious folks have their take on it, social activists have their take, poets theirs, even politicians weigh in, unfortunately.

Let's just say that that taking one's own life, for most people, is a scary proposition! And as with anything that scares us, we react.

You're going to have this same psychological/emotional survival instinct kick in no matter what method you choose. Standing at the edge of a high place or your finger on the trigger of a gun or your hand around a glass of SN--you'll have that moment of doubt and fear. When my time comes so will I. I wish I knew the answer, but I don't.

The Exit Bag & Inert Gas method involves about 10 to 15 seconds before unconsciousness. Death follows in a few minutes. What you're saying is that you need to find something that gives you less time to think, and perhaps you're right. But no matter what the method, you will have that moment...that moment at the brink.

 

[Hendrik]

I fully agree with your comments @fightingsioux - thanks also for your language clarifications.

Re the plastic bag: I cannot tell about standard turkey roasting bags in the US, but mine really appeared too thin and not strong enough. I could easily destroy the sealing by exerting some mechanical stress inside. I was less concerned about small gas leaks but destroying something during the preparation, i.e. when inserting the O2 tube. I remember reading a recommended plastic thickness of 55 micro meter in Five Last Acts, which corresponded to the thickness of my shopping bag and appears right. The thickness of my roasting bag was not mentioned, but I would estimate max 25-30 micro meter.

Re survival instinct: your are absolutely that this is a general challenge for all suicide methods. The only difference between "slower methods" (like the exit bag) and "fast methods" (like hanging, jumping & shooting) is that you only need to overcome it for a fraction of a second instead of several seconds which can appear much longer when you are actually trying it. How long it takes before pulling that trigger and whether you really do it, is a completely different questions.

 

[HelensNepenthe]

-snip-

whenever I come across your posts, they're always extremely well thought out and written. Thank you, honestly.

 

[A3re733]

I fully agree with your comments @fightingsioux - thanks also for your language clarifications.

Re the plastic bag: I cannot tell about standard turkey roasting bags in the US, but mine really appeared too thin and not strong enough. I could easily destroy the sealing by exerting some mechanical stress inside. I was less concerned about small gas leaks but destroying something during the preparation, i.e. when inserting the O2 tube. I remember reading a recommended plastic thickness of 55 micro meter in Five Last Acts, which corresponded to the thickness of my shopping bag and appears right. The thickness of my roasting bag was not mentioned, but I would estimate max 25-30 micro meter.

Re survival instinct: your are absolutely that this is a general challenge for all suicide methods. The only difference between "slower methods" (like the exit bag) and "fast methods" (like hanging, jumping & shooting) is that you only need to overcome it for a fraction of a second instead of several seconds which can appear much longer when you are actually trying it. How long it takes before pulling that trigger and whether you really do it, is a completely different questions.

how tight is the bag around your neck?

 

[Hendrik]

how tight is the bag around your neck?

tight ... and I could easily adjust it with the toggle. The gas was however still nicely flowing through the small gaps. Everything seemed good, and I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't have worked

 

[Deleted-User-0]

Hendrik-- Some thoughts: it's really not necessary for people to worry about what type of gas the regulator is calibrated for. As long as it connects properly to the tank, a regulator is simply a mechanical device that will work with any type of gas. You only have to adjust the flow: e.g., if it's an oxygen/argon regulator and a person is using nitrogen, just go for 19 LPM instead of 15.

As you said, with newer brass fittings, yellow gasline PTFE tape is not really necessary.

You're using the word pipe but the more proper word to use--at least in the U.S.--would be tubing. Don't want to confuse anyone!

I can't say that I agree with a plastic shopping bag for the Exit Bag, though perhaps I am misunderstanding your terminology, again might just be language problem. The thickness in mils of the average, everyday, supermarket turkey roasting bag is more than adequate for the small amount and the relatively low pressure of the gas. If a person was really anxious about it, they could simply double the bag, but it's not necessary. There are many, many sizes available and within reason--it shouldn't be skin-tight or the size of a blimp--it really doesn't matter.

The most interesting part of your post, at least to me, is why you were not able to achieve your goal with this method. As you say, it was not something inherently wrong with the materials, the way they were connected, or your procedure. You made a well-researched, well-prepared effort. When the proper materials are gathered and connected correctly, when the final procedures are followed meticulously, this method is 100% reliable and effective.

So it comes down to what you're calling survival instinct, and you're correct, but there are two types.

The first type includes things like hypercapnia (a physical reflex to the the build-up of carbon dioxide) that can include anything from wild, panicked physical actions to hiccups or yawning. The startle reflex, coughing, the mammalian diving reflex, jerking your hand away from a hot stove are all other examples.

These are deep-seated, instinctual, uncontrollable, evolutionary adaptations that are indelibly programmed in our brainstems.

The brain has no instinctive response to breathing inert gas; it just thinks you're breathing air, until you painlessly and quickly pass-out and die.

So what you experienced is the second type of survival instinct. It's psychological. But it's very powerful and very real, perhaps just as powerful and real as any physically instinctual brainstem reflex. And just as difficult to control.

Some people call it the will to live; others self-preservation, fear of dying, a primitive force that clings to life. On and on. Religious folks have their take on it, social activists have their take, poets theirs, even politicians weigh in, unfortunately.

Let's just say that that taking one's own life, for most people, is a scary proposition! And as with anything that scares us, we react.

You're going to have this same psychological/emotional survival instinct kick in no matter what method you choose. Standing at the edge of a high place or your finger on the trigger of a gun or your hand around a glass of SN--you'll have that moment of doubt and fear. When my time comes so will I. I wish I knew the answer, but I don't.

The Exit Bag & Inert Gas method involves about 10 to 15 seconds before unconsciousness. Death follows in a few minutes. What you're saying is that you need to find something that gives you less time to think, and perhaps you're right. But no matter what the method, you will have that moment...that moment at the brink.

Thanks for another great post. After your kind advice on my other thread suggesting to use a risky method (Argo bathtub and mask) I have done a great deal of research and decided to go ahead with a simple exit bag.
Have ordered my tank and the exit bag material to put it all together. One thing I was not sure about was to use a loose headband or an elastic cord and a cord lock for the exit back as I have seen both?
Also how tight should it really be around the neck to allow the CO2 to exit the bag without letting oxygen to get in?

Many thanks

tight ... and I could easily adjust it with the toggle. The gas was however still nicely flowing through the small gaps. Everything seemed good, and I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't have worked

How tight was it to allow the nice flow? Could you feel it around your neck? I reckon it's difficult to quantify that tightness

 

[fightingsioux]

Thanks for another great post. After your kind advice on my other thread suggesting to use a risky method (Argo bathtub and mask) I have done a great deal of research and decided to go ahead with a simple exit bag.
Have ordered my tank and the exit bag material to put it all together. One thing I was not sure about was to use a loose headband or an elastic cord and a cord lock for the exit back as I have seen both?
Also how tight should it really be around the neck to allow the CO2 to exit the bag without letting oxygen to get in?

Many thanks


How tight was it to allow the nice flow? Could you feel it around your neck? I reckon it's difficult to quantify that tightness

Go with the elastic cord and cord lock, it's foolproof. The headband-thing is still another example of people trying to reinvent the wheel to show how clever they are. The materials and protocols of this method have been used reliably, safely and effectively for decades helping many thousands of people--they work!

If you stop and think about what's going on in the Exit Bag you realize that the weight and pressure of the inert gas keeps the bag inflated and simultaneously expels or pushes-out your exhaled CO2 along the bottom of the bag. As long as the person hasn't gone to some extraordinary length to unnecessarily and mistakenly try and create an air-tight seal (winding duct tape around and around the bag and the neck!) this process will smoothly and naturally occur and keep occurring for the few minutes necessary to accomplish the purpose.

Snug is the best word for it; think about the waistband on a pair of underpants.

 

[Deleted-User-0]

Go with the elastic cord and cord lock, it's foolproof. The headband-thing is still another example of people trying to reinvent the wheel to show how clever they are. The materials and protocols of this method have been used reliably, safely and effectively for decades helping many thousands of people--they work!

If you stop and think about what's going on in the Exit Bag you realize that the weight and pressure of the inert gas keeps the bag inflated and simultaneously expels or pushes-out your exhaled CO2 along the bottom of the bag. As long as the person hasn't gone to some extraordinary length to unnecessarily and mistakenly try and create an air-tight seal (winding duct tape around and around the bag and the neck!) this process will smoothly and naturally occur and keep occurring for the few minutes necessary to accomplish the purpose.

Snug is the best word for it; think about the waistband on a pair of underpants.

Thank you so much! Always helpful, precise and straight to the point