Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[fallingasl33p]

Does anyone know what the purchasing laws /the availability of equipment is here in UK? I know helium is probably out of the question since all I can see are probably impure little balloon canisters online..

 

[Tears in Rain]

Eebd mask
And these couplers seem to be required for the other eebd mask like drager, they have no hose outlet...the connection is called rd40 and seems to be for filters (font know what kind and if necessary if used off label) ... But from there... I dont understand how to connect this to the hose of the cylinder... As you said difficult to source..
And as you said there seemed to be differences regarding the types and exhalation capacity... I guess exit bag will be safer without references in my country... Would love to have a system already working for my country...

The EEBD masks you talk about are presumably SCBA(self contained breathing apparatus) masks. They have a different type of regulator and hose needed.
I posted about that to another person yesterday:

Where can i get SCBA or EEBD in the US? Money is no issue

Where can i get SCBA or EEBD in the US? Money is no issue

sanctioned-suicide.net

SCBA megathread:

GasMonkey Setup [Nitrogen SCBA]

🐵 GasMonkey Setup 🐵 [Nitrogen SCBA] Positive Pressure Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus **images have been edited to ensure anonymity** Front view Side view Back view Pressure gauge Lung Demand Valve and Mask Bluetooth pulse oximeter Cylinder attachment Cylinder's connection...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Username1]

У кого-нибудь есть опыт работы с этими eebd hood от drager?

Я больше не рекомендую спасательный капюшон Drager PSS. Два человека купили его и имеют проблемы с клапаном выдоха капота. Отныне используйте только капюшоны с внутренней маской, такой как китайская (используется клиентами EM, а также Vizzy и bennydiazapine) или Drager Saver CF или 3M Scott.

I recently haggled and was able to buy a new Drager Saver SF on the secondary market for about 20 euros. I had a hard time putting it on and had a hard time taking it off. It fits very snugly on my head, I wasn't expecting that. There is no connector on the end of the hose, I think only the Drager PSS hood has one. I don't have a caliper, I measured with a regular ruler and I got that the inside diameter of the hose is about 7 millimeters, it's probably 1/4 inch. I have attached a couple of pictures for those who might be interested in looking at it

 

[Tears in Rain]

I recently haggled and was able to buy a new Drager Saver SF on the secondary market for about 20 euros. I had a hard time putting it on and had a hard time taking it off. It fits very snugly on my head, I wasn't expecting that. I have attached a couple of pictures for those who might be interested in looking at it
View attachment 125959View attachment 125960

Yes, some people before found them a bit tight to put on, but if it's snug when you have it on, then that's good.

Only €20 euros? You're a good haggler!

Oh right, I looked at that post by @ztem that you reposted. So he was advising against buying a Draeger PSS rescue hood, but said the Draeger Saver CF was ok. I got that wrong so in a post I put up earlier, I thought it was all Draeger hoods that were giving issues, but it was just one type of Draeger hood so.

I don't recommend the Drager PSS rescue hood anymore.Two people bought it and have problems with the hood's exhalation valve.From now on, only use hoods that have an internal mask like the Chinese(used by EM's customers and Vizzy and bennydiazapine) or Drager Saver CF or 3M Scott.

 

[Anyabuklitz]

No problem.

I just posted about that above, before I saw your response. 40-50 litres is a lot, that's gonna be a big, heavy cylinder. Get a 5 or preferably a 10 litre. But obviously a 40-50 litre is fine if you can't get smaller and can transport it ok.

It can be confusing alright. They advertise the cylinders as litres in water volume in some countries, e.g. 5 litre, 10litre, 40 litre etc. To get the rough amount of compressed gas in litres, you multiply the water volume by the bar pressure. So a 5 litre cylinder at 200 bar pressure gives roughly 1000 litres of compressed gas. Confusing, I know!

That purity is fine. If you wanna be sure, you can test the purity yourself using an oxygen detector(but most people probably don't bother testing) Here's what @GasMonkey used:
View attachment 125903

They probably won't ask questions. Just say you or your partner are using nitrogen to make home brewed beer, if they do. Or for your uncle/brother/ father who's a welder.


The tubing goes on the outside of the regulator connection, on a thing called a hose barb that usually comes with the regulator. Here's a photo of @FailerQt.'s tube on the regulator hose barb, from the previous page on this thread.
View attachment 125904
You just need to get small mini hose clamps to secure the tubing (see their posts on the previous page).
Hose clamp:
View attachment 125909

I just noticed today that the PPH recommends using tubing with soft connectors at each end, because it makes a thicker connection for any hose clamp used:

View attachment 125907

View attachment 125908

Thank you again @Tears in Rain . I appreciate your help very much. I will buy the 10 liter cylinder then : ) Thank you!

Once I have all the equipment, I will see if I need further counseling and if I could get your advice then with photos of the equipment... :)
Stay safe

 

[Anyabuklitz]

@Tears in Rain
Sorry, one last question ....... does anybody know what to do with the hands so that they won't rip the bag or take it off when unconscious ? Should them by tied ? how to do that?

 

[Tears in Rain]

@Tears in Rain
Sorry, one last question ....... does anybody know what to do with the hands so that they won't rip the bag or take it off when unconscious ? Should them by tied ? how to do that?

No problem asking the questions.
If you look at the inert gas setups gallery, you'll see some people using what are called lashing straps or tie down straps:



You could strap the body, and maybe strap the arms, to a chair or whatever.
Maybe pull the bag or hood down, then put your arms under the straps.

 

[Username1]

Sorry, one last question ....... does anybody know what to do with the hands so that they won't rip the bag or take it off when unconscious ? Should them by tied ? how to do that?

You can tie your hands for reassurance, I would do that, although I don't know how necessary it might be.

You can use suitable straps, tightening them after you put the bag on and put your hands through the straps, you can use clamps (not sure what this thing is called in English, so I'll attach a photo), someone was going to use handcuffs, and someone thought of doing ctb in the car put their hands through the steering wheel and use a Chinese finger trap
Someone, possibly vizzy, was going to use these straps

 

[Anyabuklitz]

@Tears in Rain @Username1
1. do you think that handcuffs are a good option? the chair I am using won't hold the other straps well, as the arm stand on its sides are too tall.... it won't tighten to my body (I am using an armchair). I am just wondering whether I'll be able to put the handcuffs to myself in time.... and whether they would prevent my hands from taking down the bag.

2. do you know: how is it possible to prepare beforehand? I want to test that the bag works beforehand? should I use an oxygen meter to test that there is no oxygen inside the bag?

3. should I fix a hose barb to the regulator and put the oxygen tubing on the hose barb? is that a must? (are there different types of hose barbs in different sizes? I didn't receive my regulator yet and I don't want to buy the wrong barb - how do I know which one to buy?)

 

[Tears in Rain]

@Tears in Rain
Sorry, one last question ....... does anybody know what to do with the hands so that they won't rip the bag or take it off when unconscious ? Should them by tied ? how to do that?

@Tears in Rain @Username1
1. do you think that handcuffs are a good option? the chair I am using won't hold the other straps well, as the arm stand on its sides are too tall.... it won't tighten to my body (I am using an armchair). I am just wondering whether I'll be able to put the handcuffs to myself in time.... and whether they would prevent my hands from taking down the bag.

1)I don't think you're going to move much when unconscious, you're definitely not going to try and rip the bag off. People who have ripped the bag off have done it before going unconscious, due to s.i.

The straps I mentioned are quite long. You could put one or two going around the back of the armchair, and around your upper body. They would be to stop you from potentially falling forward or sideways when your body goes limp when unconscious. Then you could put one or two going under the bottom of the armchair and around over your upper legs. Then you could slip the arms under these after the bag is pulled down.

2. do you know: how is it possible to prepare beforehand? I want to test that the bag works beforehand? should I use an oxygen meter to test that there is no oxygen inside the bag?

2)You could fill the bag with gas to test that there's no holes in it.

Some people test the gas purity by getting an oxygen meter, and hooking up the meter tube to the regulator hose barb. But I would say most people don't bother testing the purity. @GasMonkey's meters:

3. should I fix a hose barb to the regulator and put the oxygen tubing on the hose barb? is that a must? (are there different types of hose barbs in different sizes? I didn't receive my regulator yet and I don't want to buy the wrong barb - how do I know which one to buy?)

3)Yes, you attach the oxygen tubing to the hose barb. The hose barb usually comes with the gas regulator, separate in the box. You just have to screw it on to the regulator outlet, and then attach the oxygen tubing to the hose barb with one or two mini hose clamps. Was there a hose barb on the picture of the regulator, on the website you ordered it from?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

For the hose barb you need a 17 mm wrench.

 

[Tears in Rain]

also, does anyone have a good cover story? I told that my family is opening a beer brewery and put me in charge on contacting suppliers... but I'm worried they will ask more questions....

I came across a previous post of one lady's experience of collecting a nitrogen cylinder, if you want to check out her cover story:

Buying N2: My Experience

Hello people! I'm super excited about my accomplishment today and I just wanted to share my experience in hopes others will find it helpful. However, this is still just my story. Thanks for reading! :) Today, I purchased one 40 cubic foot tank of compressed Nitrogen. For the longest time, I...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[outrider567]

@Tears in Rain
Sorry, one last question ....... does anybody know what to do with the hands so that they won't rip the bag or take it off when unconscious ? Should them by tied ? how to do that?

Not tying my hands at all, the EEBD Hood is on very tight, and since you black out pretty soon with Nitrogen, there's no chance of ever ripping the EEBD Hood off

 

[Anyabuklitz]

@Tears in Rain
I am waiting for the equipment right now, once I will have everything ready I will probably need more help with installment :)
I bought the cylinder from a company that also sells me the regulator and I asked them to attach it previously. they said it comes with a hose barb (I sent them a pic)
I do not live alone - does the cylinder make noise?

 

[Intoxicated]

does the cylinder make noise?

No, unless the valve is damaged or you open it.

 

[bov]

Guys I may have fucked up. I have a 40L cylinder--bigger than smallest size suggested--but i just nudged the nozzle open for a split second by accident. Definitely less than a second!

Does this mean oxygen has entered, and the purity is compromised; do I need to
buy a new cylinder??

If I'm using the SCUBA method with enough gas to knock me out for at least half an hour is purity still paramount?

I really need honest advice here.

 

[Intoxicated]

Guys I may have fucked up. I have a 40L cylinder--bigger than smallest size suggested--but i just nudged the nozzle open for a split second by accident. Definitely less than a second!

Does this mean oxygen has entered, and the purity is compromised

If the pressure in the cylinder was way higher than in the ambient atmosphere, you had a strong flow of the gas coming out from the cylinder, and the amount of oxygen that could enter the cylinder due to thermal molecular movement is just miserable.

If the cylinder is initially filled with air at 1 atm and 149 parts of impure inert gas are added afterwards without removing that air, the cylinder will contain nearly 1/700 part (0.14%) of oxygen plus the fraction of O2 in the impure inert gas mixture. This is not really critical.

 

[Username1]

Does this mean oxygen has entered, and the purity is compromised; do I need to
buy a new cylinder??

I'm no expert in physics, but my intuition tells me that unless you did it in a room pressurized more than the tank, this shouldn't happen

If I'm using the SCUBA method with enough gas to knock me out for at least half an hour is purity still paramount?

You might find useful information for yourself in this post:

Can you elaborate the need for such a high purity? I don't see reasons why 98 - 98.5% Ar wouldn't work well enough.

98% Ar + 2% N2 should be okay, because N2 is just another inert gas.
98% Ar + 2% O2 should be okay, because concentrations of O2 below 6% are lethal and cause fainting quickly. [1]
98.5% Ar + 1.5% CO2 can be slightly worse but still okay, because concentrations of CO2 at 15000 - 20000 ppm cause mild effects during short periods of time [2], and you can hyperventilate to negate these effects.

 

[bov]

thanks guys

 

[Readytogohome]

@Tears in Rain , I just wanted to say that you have been incredibly helpful to everyone in the various inert gas threads. You've pulled posts and pics together into concise illustrated replies that are very clear. Thank you for being so generous to everyone!

 

[FlyingFR]

Pigs don't use exit bags ... hypoxic rooms, if only.

guess we all have seen that video

 

[bov]

guess we all have seen that video

link?

 

[ThymeToLeave]

Any comments on this option?

Jumping spots on east coast US

I’m thinking about taking a bus somewhere to ctb via jumping. Preferably somewhere I can sight see and get a nice dinner before hand. I have no idea where tho I don’t have much travel experience. Also somewhere I wouldn’t need a car to get around. Any suggestions?

sanctioned-suicide.net

And just buy liquid nitrogen at your local welding supply shop. You just need cryogenic container that cost 100 bucks and they'll fill you up for two bucks a liter. 8 Liters of LN2 will rapidly begin degassing from liquid to gas at a rate of 1:695 liquid to gas expansion ratio, approximately 6m³ volumetric gas or 5,556 liters of gas from an 8Liter 3kg LN2 Dewar. Essentially enough to flood an entire car, so you have to crack a window open so that the cooler nitrogen fills up the car from the bottom out and forces out the composite atmospheric air

It seems like most people prefer an exit bag to going in their car, is this method unreliable?

Edit: I read earlier posts and it looks like it is in fact unrealiable to turn your car into a gas hood this way:

No, don't try to turn your car into a N2 tent; it will take too much N2 to fill the car and adequately displace the air. The reason a bag is used is to create a small space for the N2 to adequately fill.

Unless you have a very large supply of N2, and an air-tight car, turning your car into a super-sized exit bag won't work.

 

[bov]

Ummmm so a professional anasthaeseologist and a bunch of UN guys say that Nitrogen asphyxiation would be not painless but in fact excruciating. What would motivate them to lie if it's a lie? This has me very concerned; it's tempting to think the mind / nerves would be the first part of the brain to die but it isn't hard to imagine the body somehow "waking you up" and instilling panic and agony.

Killing convicts with nitrogen is even worse than the lethal injection

Nitrogen hypoxia is the gaseous canister version of a knee on the neck. US states that plan to use it must be stopped.

www.aljazeera.com

Ummmm so a professional anasthaeseologist and a bunch of UN guys say that Nitrogen asphyxiation would be not painless but in fact excruciating. What would motivate them to lie if it's a lie? This has me very concerned; it's tempting to think the mind / nerves would be the first part of the brain to die but it isn't hard to imagine the body somehow "waking you up" and instilling panic and agony.

Killing convicts with nitrogen is even worse than the lethal injection

Nitrogen hypoxia is the gaseous canister version of a knee on the neck. US states that plan to use it must be stopped.

www.aljazeera.com

also i read about an engineer dying in a hospital after trying it. if an engineer cant set it up effectively....

 

[outrider567]

Ummmm so a professional anasthaeseologist and a bunch of UN guys say that Nitrogen asphyxiation would be not painless but in fact excruciating. What would motivate them to lie if it's a lie? This has me very concerned; it's tempting to think the mind / nerves would be the first part of the brain to die but it isn't hard to imagine the body somehow "waking you up" and instilling panic and agony.

Killing convicts with nitrogen is even worse than the lethal injection

Nitrogen hypoxia is the gaseous canister version of a knee on the neck. US states that plan to use it must be stopped.

www.aljazeera.com

also i read about an engineer dying in a hospital after trying it. if an engineer cant set it up effectively....

Don't listen to anti-death penalty ill informed zealots, Nitrogen and EEBD Hood is totally painless, taking deep breaths of Nitrogen is just like taking deep breaths of air, then you peacefully pass out, see Vizzy's and Greenberg's posts in this thread

 

[Antoine_Roquentin]

Don't listen to anti-death penalty ill informed zealots, Nitrogen and EEBD Hood is totally painless, taking deep breaths of Nitrogen is just like taking deep breaths of air, then you peacefully pass out, see Vizzy's and Greenberg's posts in this thread

As of now, my method of choice is still inert gas (nitrogen), but after pondering all the mentioned methods in this board and reading scientific literature, I came to the conclusion that all off these methods come with a degree of violence. Killing a human being simply isn't easy. This is a fact all of us that want to cbt have to come to terms with. This too is true for nitrogen. Passing out from nitrogen is accompanied "on most occasions by a generalized convulsion" [1], you don't just fall asleep.

The question if there is an amount of pain is hard to answer because nobody who ctb'd can talk about what they experienced in the moments until their death. Obviously you can't just do experiments on humans. As far as I know there are just two papers where the process of ctb'ing with inert gas - in both cases helium - was scienfically obversed, the researcher in both cases was Ogden. In one paper he watched videos that were taken by the Swiss organisation Dignitas using oxygen masks, in the other paper he was present when two elderly women used the exit bag. In both papers the observations are described, I'll attach them so you can read for yourself. It is not for the faint of the heart. One paper also contains pictures of the deceased. Concerning pain, Ogden writes:

"While there was no evidence that the decedents experienced any pain, it was disturbing to witness preterminal gasping in both cases. In adults, gasping is witnessed in 30% to 40% of cardiac arrests. These 2 case reports are insufficient to determine any variability in human response to helium induced hypoxemia, but it is interesting that one decedent experienced no tremors or gross reflex, while the other one did. In an experiment using nitrogen for the euthanasia of dogs it was observed that while death in the canines occurred rapidly and humanely, there was also considerable variation in incidences of convulsion, gasping, and muscular tremor. The underlying reasons for these variations should be explored"

 

[bov]

Don't listen to anti-death penalty ill informed zealots, Nitrogen and EEBD Hood is totally painless, taking deep breaths of Nitrogen is just like taking deep breaths of air, then you peacefully pass out, see Vizzy's and Greenberg's posts in this thread

What about the engineer story?

As of now, my method of choice is still inert gas (nitrogen), but after pondering all the mentioned methods in this board and reading scientific literature, I came to the conclusion that all off these methods come with a degree of violence. Killing a human being simply isn't easy. This is a fact all of us that want to cbt have to come to terms with. This too is true for nitrogen. Passing out from nitrogen is accompanied "on most occasions by a generalized convulsion" [1], you don't just fall asleep.

The question if there is an amount of pain is hard to answer because nobody who ctb'd can talk about what they experienced in the moments until their death. Obviously you can't just do experiments on humans. As far as I know there are just two papers where the process of ctb'ing with inert gas - in both cases helium - was scienfically obversed, the researcher in both cases was Ogden. In one paper he watched videos that were taken by the Swiss organisation Dignitas using oxygen masks, in the other paper he was present when two elderly women used the exit bag. In both papers the observations are described, I'll attach them so you can read for yourself. It is not for the faint of the heart. One paper also contains pictures of the deceased. Concerning pain, Ogden writes:

"While there was no evidence that the decedents experienced any pain, it was disturbing to witness preterminal gasping in both cases. In adults, gasping is witnessed in 30% to 40% of cardiac arrests. These 2 case reports are insufficient to determine any variability in human response to helium induced hypoxemia, but it is interesting that one decedent experienced no tremors or gross reflex, while the other one did. In an experiment using nitrogen for the euthanasia of dogs it was observed that while death in the canines occurred rapidly and humanely, there was also considerable variation in incidences of convulsion, gasping, and muscular tremor. The underlying reasons for these variations should be explored"

Why believe an anaesthesiologist is ill informed?

 

[outrider567]

What about the engineer story?

Why believe an anaesthesiologist is ill informed?

Believe what you want, but you're totally wrong, and you obviously have not read Greenberg's posts, please do not respond to me until you do

 

[Antoine_Roquentin]

Why believe an anaesthesiologist is ill informed?

I don't believe that he is ill informed, I explicitely wrote that one cannot know for sure if there is an amount of pain. I myself am unsure and that's a big part that keeps me from ctb'ing with this method. The study I quoted just states that it didn't look like that they experienced pain, it doesn't mean that they didn't experience it.

 

[k1w1]

What about the engineer story?

Why believe an anaesthesiologist is ill informed?

Because like most educated and civilised people, it is likely that he holds the opinion that the 'death penalty' Southern States are a pack of tobacco chewin' good old boys running a corrupt penal system for profit. A less inflammatory notion is that using medical products (see pentobarbital) for killing people has ethical considerations. In doubt? See Edisons testing of the electric chair on an ELEPHANT in the early 20th century !!!