Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[FailerQt.]

Hello, it's me again. As I already have almost everything I need, except the bag itself and a wrench, I came here again in hopes of receiving some help. I know about the pdf file with tutorial and "75LD2818". The problem is cannot find it anywhere. Only found 100 pieces packet one for like 218$. So if there's anyone who could either pm me a source for this bag (in Europe) or recommend an alternative, I'd be really thankful.
I have to do the poor man's option with a bag as I don't really have that much money to afford hoods and whatnot. Love you guys, my bus is almost here.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

If your breathing rate is really 50LPM when you are stressed and anxious, then yes, you will breathe about 50LPM in the first minute(maximum),cessation of breathing happens in less than 5 minutes.

I'm reading the dignitas study again and it says for the first 3 subjects that the breathing rate accelerated after passing out. It also might explain why SlovakGuy used 113 * 6 = 678 liter of nitrogen. Assuming that he also had his last gasps after like 8 minutes like the subjects from the study.

 

[ztem]

breathing rate accelerated after passing out

I don't think your breathing rate will increase after you lose consciousness because you are already breathing like a horse.

why SlovakGuy used

Yeah, I thought about that before, if cessation of breathing happens at 2~3 minutes,,why Slovak guy used 678 liters since his reg was negative pressure.But that was not my concern because the cylinder I want to buy is 10L/200bar.The only explanation is that his gas consumption was too high in the first minutes or it took longer for him to stop breathing.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

I don't think your breathing rate will increase after you lose consciousness because you are already breathing like a horse.

I agree. The increase is from a normal rate. In my case I think it can only go down after passing out since I can't stress out after passing out.M

Yeah, I thought about that before, if cessation of breathing happens at 2~3 minutes,,why Slovak guy used 678 liters since his reg was negative pressure.But that was not my concern because the cylinder I want to buy is 10L/200bar.The only explanation is that his gas consumption was too high in the first minutes or it took longer for him to stop breathing.

Maybe he did some experimenting too before passing out, but I can't find any posts from him. Do you known under what name can I find his posts?

 

[ztem]

I'm reading the dignitas study again and it says for the first 3 subjects that the breathing rate accelerated after passing out. It also might explain why SlovakGuy used 113 * 6 = 678 liter of nitrogen. Assuming that he also had his last gasps after like 8 minutes like the subjects from the study.

In Scrooge's guide, he said that death occurs after a maximum of 3 minutes lol

Scrooge's guide (english version).pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - Scrooge's guide (english version).pdf

pdfhost.io

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Okay, didn't see scrooge's guide. It's next level lol.
I see he writes to important sentences:

Since unconsciousness sets in after 4-5 breaths, longer phases of stress and with that longer durations of an elevated breathing rate can be ruled out.

I think that answers my question abouts the breathing rate after passing out.
And the breathing rate:

22 * 1500 ml = 33 l/min

So let's assume worst case (I found several source on internet mentioning times less then 20 minutes) 33l/min * 20 min = 660 liter (ignoring his 3 minutes). Which is still less then the 900 liter that are left in my cylinder. So I should be good and breathing stops anyways faster.

 

[ztem]

didn't see scrooge's guide

2010(13 years ago).

Another assumption is that he(Slovakguy) had a 6L/150bar cylinder,the remaining pressure after his death was 87 bar.This means he only used 378 liters.

In both cases,a 5L/200 bar is enough.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

2010(13 years ago).

Another assumption is that he(Slovakguy) had a 6L/150bar cylinder,the remaining pressure after his death was 87 bar.This means he only used 378 liters.

Yes, it can be multiple reasons. Different pressures or it wasn't full at the start. It's really annoying that this information is missing.

In both cases,a 5L/200 bar is enough.

Yes, I guess so too. Maybe I will exchange it for a full one when my moment is there.
I think I learned a few things which I will do when I decide to ctb:

• Don't rush, take as much time as needed
• Do a pressure test and use a leak detector spray
• Put the mask on with the SAV (opening to the outside) open and wait until I'm relaxed and can breath normal (if not abort)
• Close the SAV and first exhale deeply as suggested in the dignitas study. I guess this will remove all the oxygen and carbondioxide which is still in the lungs.
• And breath pure nitrogen in, so this should have a faster effect then during my blackout test.

 

[Sonny77]

Hello guys, I have a similar question for the gas experts among you:

I use nitrogen and the GasMonkeys method, with Lung Demand Valve and SCBA!

My nitrogen bottle has 5 liters at 200 bar. How long will the contents last, assuming continuous breathing?

Would a 10 liter bottle be safer or would 5 liters be enough?

The reason for the question is that the time of discovery is delayed as long as possible. If the compressed air breathing apparatus starts to warn due to the high pressure, my neighbors would hear it and possibly call the emergency services.

A man I really respected said that it would be enough. But I would like to read other opinions about it again.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Hello guys, I have a similar question for the gas experts among you:

I use nitrogen and the GasMonkeys method, with Lung Demand Valve and SCBA!

My nitrogen bottle has 5 liters at 200 bar. How long will the contents last, assuming continuous breathing?

Would a 10 liter bottle be safer or would 5 liters be enough?

The reason for the question is that the time of discovery is delayed as long as possible. If the compressed air breathing apparatus starts to warn due to the high pressure, my neighbors would hear it and possibly call the emergency services.

A man I really respected said that it would be enough. But I would like to read other opinions about it again.

I guess it also depends if you're going to do a blackout test. As @ztem said above a pp ldv goes crazy after blacking out.

 

[unebarque]

Hi, I think I majorly screwed up: I got a CGA-580 regulator and 1/4 in. hose but my tank is BS3. Are these incompatible? (I haven't received my tank yet to find out.) I was trying to find a BS3 to CGA-580 adaptor but could not find one online... does this mean I need to buy a BS3 regulator and 3/8 in hose?

 

[ztem]

I was trying to find a BS3 to CGA-580 adaptor but could not find one online... does this mean I need to buy a BS3 regulator

You can connect a CGA-580 reg to your BS3 valve but the price of those adapters is almost the same as a new regulator,it's better to buy a BS3 reg like these two


This is the hose barb for those two regulators. You need Oxygen or PVC tubing(1/4" or 3/8" ID).
This one has a hose barb.

 

[unebarque]

You can connect a CGA-580 reg to your BS3 valve but the price of those adapters is almost the same as a new regulator

Thanks for explaining! Thoughts on the below flow regulator? Has a BS3 male connection in the back. I found it on one of the popular shopping sites, relatively cheap. Seems too good to be true? The flow display goes up to 20 LPM, which is sufficient, and it also operates for up to 230 bar tanks. The post claims that it's compatible for both nitrogen and argon, which is a bit suspicious

 

[ztem]

Yeah that's viable too.

The post claims that it's compatible for both nitrogen and argon, which is a bit suspicious

Because the connection of nitrogen,argon is the same in the UK(BS341 NO.3(G5/8 INT)).

 

[unebarque]

Yeah that's viable too.

Because the connection of nitrogen,argon is the same in the UK(BS341 NO.3(G5/8 INT)).

Oh that wasn't what I was referring to as suspicious: it's the fact that the measured LPM should be different for the two gases right (i.e., 15LPM on an argon-calibrated flowmeter is not 15LPM if it's used with nitrogen)?

 

[anonaon]

Oh that wasn't what I was referring to as suspicious: it's the fact that the measured LPM should be different for the two gases right (i.e., 15LPM on an argon-calibrated flowmeter is not 15LPM if it's used with nitrogen)?

Correct but its not a huge difference. Argon is a heavier gas anyways so 15LPM on an argon-calibrated regulator is closer to ~20LPM for nitrogen

 

[ztem]

Oh that wasn't what I was referring to as suspicious: it's the fact that the measured LPM should be different for the two gases right (i.e., 15LPM on an argon-calibrated flowmeter is not 15LPM if it's used with nitrogen)?

If I were you, I wouldn't care at all, It was really ridiculous that for a few LPM up or down people talked about this several times in the past.You have more important things to worry about like making a proper exit bag.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

After precise measurements, I have finally found the exact coupler needed to connect EEBD hoods with plug-in nipples to Nitrogen regulators: it has to be a CEJN or Parker breathing air coupler with a Nominal flow diameter of 7.4mm with the proper thread for your regulator, which can be found with filters in the search. This type of plug-in nipple is the same used in SCBA demand valves.

Example for a Nitrogen regulator with a male G1/4" outlet:​

View attachment 116923

This enables the direct implementation of a full hood setup without modifying the hose.

Does anyone know whether the CEJN 341 and 342 series will also work?

The Drager hood manual only mentions CEJN 344 or Rectus 95 KS.

 

[ztem]

Does anyone know whether the CEJN 341 and 342 series will also work?

Buy and try it yourself if you are curious.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Buy and try it yourself if you are curious.

It's not possible to refund it, that's why I rather not.


I already found a source for the 344 coupler. The problem is it can take up to a month to get it delivered.

 

[ztem]

The problem is it can take up to a month to get it delivered.

Where are you from?

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Where are you from?

Europe.

 

[DeadHead]

Hate to be a nuisance asking retarded questions, but a while back I thought I made some notes (which I now can't find) - something to do with how the inlet pressure of the regulator relates to the bar of the nitrogen tank. If someone could kindly remind me what the relevance of this is and what I need to check for in terms of pressure before I buy the regulator, I'd appreciate it.
I have a 9l nitrogen tank at 137 bar. Thanks in advance.

 

[anonaon]

Not sure if this is what ur looking for but your regulator must be able to support the cylinder's working pressure. For examply, if you're cylinder operates at 200bar (2216psi) and your regulator is desgined for 150bar (2015psi), you'll need to bleed out some of the gas b4 using it with the regulator.

 

[ztem]

I buy the regulator

If you want to buy this regulator, buy it, that's the right regulator.

I use nitrogen and the GasMonkeys method, with Lung Demand Valve and SCBA!

My nitrogen bottle has 5 liters at 200 bar. How long will the contents last, assuming continuous breathing?

With on-demand systems(SCBA/SCUBA), how much gas you will consume depends entirely on your breathing rate before and after unconsciousness and when you stop breathing.With negative pressure, when your breathing(inhalation)stops, you don't create a negative pressure inside the mask, and as a result, gas consumption is zero. With positive pressure, when your breathing(inhalation)stops, the positive pressure inside the mask will no longer decrease, that's why we say on-demand system.Even if you assume that Slovakguy's cylinder was 6L/200bar, he consumed 678 liters of gas, a 5L/200bar is 1000L of gas.

warn due to the high pressure

You should silence the low pressure whistle.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

CO2 buildup not relevant for EEBD hood at all, because it's purged through the exhale valve?

Do I need to worry about stuff like the visor mask not sealing properly, and leaking exhaled air into the hood?

 

[DeadHead]

Not sure if this is what ur looking for but your regulator must be able to support the cylinder's working pressure. For examply, if you're cylinder operates at 200bar (2216psi) and your regulator is desgined for 150bar (2015psi), you'll need to bleed out some of the gas b4 using it with the regulator.

So if my tank is 137 bar, what must the outlet pressure of the regulator be?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

So if my tank is 137 bar, what must the outlet pressure of the regulator be?

The regulator has to support a pressure equal or higher then 137 bar. That seems to be the general rule of thumb for all inert gas methods. A higher cylinder pressure can damage equipement, but lower pressure can't. If you think logically, the pressure will always go down in the cylinder while using gas. The second thing you have to look at are the connection sizes which have to match between equipement and cylinder.

 

[anonaon]

CO2 buildup not relevant for EEBD hood at all, because it's purged through the exhale valve?

Correct

Do I need to worry about stuff like the visor mask not sealing properly, and leaking exhaled air into the hood?

No, the hood's quite durable. Just dont crumple it in storage

So if my tank is 137 bar, what must the outlet pressure of the regulator be?

137 or above but dont worry about this. If your regulator is designed for its respective gas, it'll work. Otherwise welders would be out of jobs

 

[dustinspector]

What regulator would I need for a 125cu/ft tank of Nitrogen?