Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[NoFutureAnymore]

NoFutureAnymore

Did you buy the tank new (with gas) or refill it?

It's an exchange cylinder of 200 bar, you hand in the old one and get another filled one in return. It's already lying here for weeks and it was still 200 bar when I started today. So that one isn't leaking neither.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I tried to msg you as I just ordered in UK, however because you are new I can't pm you
I would appreciate it if one of the experts here could answer my (probably retarded) question.

Here is a pic of my nitrogen tank below and I've also posted a link to the regulator I am thinking of buying. To join the regulator to the tank, you literally have to rotate the whole regulator round and round until it's screwed in - is this correct? I can't imagine how else you would do it. So if the regulator is heavy, this could be difficult for people with certain medical conditions.
This regulator: https://norsemensafety.co.uk/produc...MI9YXRl_OIgQMVSNftCh0RNwg3EAQYASABEgLycPD_BwE
View attachment 120835

You only have to rotate the connector nut at the regulator's inlet, not the entire regulator.

The regulator should weigh 2kg at most.
You can sit on a chair with armrests and have your arm lean on it if it still proves troublesome.

You tighten the inlet nut by hand until you can't put force anymore.
After that you use the wrench to tighten it a bit more.
If you feel noticeable resistance, then you've probably tightened it enough.
Do not overtighten it, as it may damage the thread.

Leak checking can be done after this. If there is a leak, you can tighten it a little bit more, until no leaks are found.

EDIT: Sorry for the late reply. Didn't see the above posts.

 

[dm1444]

It's an exchange cylinder of 200 bar, you hand in the old one and get another filled one in return. It's already lying here for weeks and it was still 200 bar when I started today. So that one isn't leaking neither.

I refilled my 5 liter tank too and the pressure dropped quickly too. I suspect that the gas is much less than that. I'm thinking of changing to a 10 liter tank.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I found my gas cylinder pressure also dropping quicker than I expected.

Either I didn't keep track of time properly, or something else is going on.
(No leaks, I checked the cylinder valve itself, the regulator, and finally the outlet hose.)


Also, I don't really remember, but I recall my gas cylinder had a higher pressure than 200 bar at the beginning, like somewhere near 245 bar.
At the beginning I made the foolish mistake of not tightening the regulator with a wrench (because I didn't have one), and thinking it would have been sealed properly.
So opening the valve, quite a lot of gas escaped at the beginning.
After that I tightened the regulator with some other tool that wasn't really suitable for it.
I only bought a wrench later.
(Anyway, don't make these stupid mistakes like I did. I just wasn't familiar with this kind of technical stuff at all.)


I think the real starting pressure must have been something near the 250-270 bar range.

It would be nice to get some more information about this from someone who understands this better.

 

[winterparty]

How does it feel to pass out from nitrogen? I'm about to CTB

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

I refilled my 5 liter tank too and the pressure dropped quickly too. I suspect that the gas is much less than that. I'm thinking of changing to a 10 liter tank.

What is your method again?
If I remember wel, I was breathing really fast. Maybe close to hyperventilating and at some point I thought "I should breath slower". So I forced myself to breath slower. After that I can't remember anything. According to ChatGPT, your breathing slows down after you pass out and is regulated by CO2 levels in your blood. Which should be low, so breathing goes down as far as I understand. Would be nice if somebody can confirm this, since ChatGPT isn't always correct.
I still have some prescription drugs to relax, so maybe I should take it if I want to CTB. Put my mask on with the bypass valve open and wait until my breathing is normal before closing it.
I also read that SlovakGuy had a bottle of 6L and had 87bar left after he died. Does anybody know if he started with a full cylinder? Or did he also loose some gas before ctbing?

After that I tightened the regulator with some other tool that wasn't really suitable for it.
I only bought a wrench later.
(Anyway, don't make these stupid mistakes like I did. I just wasn't familiar with this kind of technical stuff at all.)

Yes I wasted a few bars in the beginning by using the tools which where including with the SCUBA gear which where not strong enough. It kept leaking a bit. I took some real tools which I have lying around and after that the pressure didn't change anymore.

How does it feel to pass out from nitrogen? I'm about to CTB

It felt comparable to falling asleep. First few breaths not much happend and then my hands started tingling a bit and the vision got a bit blurry, but it went al so fast that I even didn't realize this. The realization came after I woke up again. This waking up also went quite fast as soon as the oxygen is restored. I took a few deep breaths to get rid of the strange feelings.

 

[ztem]

I refilled my 5 liter tank too and the pressure dropped quickly too. I suspect that the gas is much less than that. I'm thinking of changing to a 10 liter tank.

Slovak guy had a 6L/200bar cylinder and only consumed 678 liters of it with his NP SCUBA but if 10L/200bar will increase your confidence,go for it.

Firstly I tested how much the pressure drops after opening and closing the cylinder. The pressure barely dropped after 10 minutes waiting, so this was all good

Although the HP leak test is recommended in the SCBA/SCUBA manual, it is not enough because you can have leak while the HP leak test is satisfactory.

I consumed 8*5L = 40 liters in this short time. So this means that I would consume the remaining part in 18 minutes.

Those calculations are for SCBA cylinders for firefighters.
For example:
6.8L × 300bar ÷ 40LPM - 10(for safety margin) = 41 minutes

or

They recommend that firefighters immediately exit the hazardous area when they hear the low pressure alarm/whistle of their SCBA.This whistle will activate at ~50 bar pressure.
6.8L × 300bar = 2040L
6.8L × 50 bar = 340L
2040L - 340L= 1700L
1700L ÷ 40LPM = 42 minutes

With PP LDV:
Wunderkind lost 20bar with 5L/150bar cylinder
Das Nichts lost 40bar with 5L/220bar cylinder

It's better to buy a separate 5L/200bar(or instead of two 5/200, just one 10/200) for blackout test with SCBA because after you pass out, that PP LDV will go crazy.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Slovak guy had a 6L/200bar cylinder and only consumed 678 liters of it with his NP SCUBA but if 10L/200bar will increase your confidence,go for it.

Do you know if he started with a full cylinder?

Although the HP leak test is recommended in the SCBA/SCUBA manual, it is not enough because you can have leak while the HP leak test is satisfactory.

Uhm so it might still leak at the cylinder. Is this caused by a check valve? However I still don't think this was the case (I will still do this extra check next time with the spray). The pressure didn't go down when everything was connected with the mask off. So if there was a leak then the pressure should also have gone down before and after my test (the valve was open). The most likely explanation is my breathing which was really fast and deep (I felt extremely nervous, maybe SI because I didn't want to die yet). It might have been as fast as when you normally do "heavy physical exertion". My 50LPM consumption during this 50 seconds falls in the range of your screenshot.

Those calculations are for SCBA cylinders for firefighters.
For example:
6.8L × 300bar ÷ 40LPM - 10(for safety margin) = 41 minutes

My cylinder is now at 182 bar. So that's with this extreme consumption 5 * 182 / 50 = 18 minutes.
When I decide to CTB I will try to relax more and take some medication to help relaxing, so I hope I can manage to get my breathing down to 12LPM.
And I hope that it will anyway go down to 12LPM minute after passing out.
So that's worst case 182-8 bar = 174bar at the moment of passing out and then there are 5 * 174 / 12 -10 = 62 minutes left while being unconsciousness. Or am I seeing something wrong?

 

[ztem]

-10

That -10 is for firefighters,they consider that 10 minutes of remaining air in the cylinder to get out of dangerous environments.

If your breathing rate is really 50LPM when you are stressed and anxious, then yes, you will breathe about 50LPM in the first minutes,cessation of breathing happens in less than 5 minutes.

 

[FailerQt.]

Hello, it's me again. As I already have almost everything I need, except the bag itself and a wrench, I came here again in hopes of receiving some help. I know about the pdf file with tutorial and "75LD2818". The problem is cannot find it anywhere. Only found 100 pieces packet one for like 218$. So if there's anyone who could either pm me a source for this bag (in Europe) or recommend an alternative, I'd be really thankful.
I have to do the poor man's option with a bag as I don't really have that much money to afford hoods and whatnot. Love you guys, my bus is almost here.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

If your breathing rate is really 50LPM when you are stressed and anxious, then yes, you will breathe about 50LPM in the first minute(maximum),cessation of breathing happens in less than 5 minutes.

I'm reading the dignitas study again and it says for the first 3 subjects that the breathing rate accelerated after passing out. It also might explain why SlovakGuy used 113 * 6 = 678 liter of nitrogen. Assuming that he also had his last gasps after like 8 minutes like the subjects from the study.

 

[ztem]

breathing rate accelerated after passing out

I don't think your breathing rate will increase after you lose consciousness because you are already breathing like a horse.

why SlovakGuy used

Yeah, I thought about that before, if cessation of breathing happens at 2~3 minutes,,why Slovak guy used 678 liters since his reg was negative pressure.But that was not my concern because the cylinder I want to buy is 10L/200bar.The only explanation is that his gas consumption was too high in the first minutes or it took longer for him to stop breathing.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

I don't think your breathing rate will increase after you lose consciousness because you are already breathing like a horse.

I agree. The increase is from a normal rate. In my case I think it can only go down after passing out since I can't stress out after passing out.M

Yeah, I thought about that before, if cessation of breathing happens at 2~3 minutes,,why Slovak guy used 678 liters since his reg was negative pressure.But that was not my concern because the cylinder I want to buy is 10L/200bar.The only explanation is that his gas consumption was too high in the first minutes or it took longer for him to stop breathing.

Maybe he did some experimenting too before passing out, but I can't find any posts from him. Do you known under what name can I find his posts?

 

[ztem]

I'm reading the dignitas study again and it says for the first 3 subjects that the breathing rate accelerated after passing out. It also might explain why SlovakGuy used 113 * 6 = 678 liter of nitrogen. Assuming that he also had his last gasps after like 8 minutes like the subjects from the study.

In Scrooge's guide, he said that death occurs after a maximum of 3 minutes lol

Scrooge's guide (english version).pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - Scrooge's guide (english version).pdf

pdfhost.io

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

There was also another member who made a so called megathread with Scrooge's guide .In Scrooge's guide, he said that death occurs after a maximum of 3 minutes in pain free unconsciousness lol

Okay, didn't see scrooge's guide. It's next level lol.
I see he writes to important sentences:

Since unconsciousness sets in after 4-5 breaths, longer phases of stress and with that longer durations of an elevated breathing rate can be ruled out.

I think that answers my question abouts the breathing rate after passing out.
And the breathing rate:

22 * 1500 ml = 33 l/min

So let's assume worst case (I found several source on internet mentioning times less then 20 minutes) 33l/min * 20 min = 660 liter (ignoring his 3 minutes). Which is still less then the 900 liter that are left in my cylinder. So I should be good and breathing stops anyways faster.

 

[ztem]

didn't see scrooge's guide

2010(13 years ago).

Another assumption is that he(Slovakguy) had a 6L/150bar cylinder,the remaining pressure after his death was 87 bar.This means he only used 378 liters.

In both cases,a 5L/200 bar is enough.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

2010(13 years ago).

Another assumption is that he(Slovakguy) had a 6L/150bar cylinder,the remaining pressure after his death was 87 bar.This means he only used 378 liters.

Yes, it can be multiple reasons. Different pressures or it wasn't full at the start. It's really annoying that this information is missing.

In both cases,a 5L/200 bar is enough.

Yes, I guess so too. Maybe I will exchange it for a full one when my moment is there.
I think I learned a few things which I will do when I decide to ctb:

• Don't rush, take as much time as needed
• Do a pressure test and use a leak detector spray
• Put the mask on with the SAV (opening to the outside) open and wait until I'm relaxed and can breath normal (if not abort)
• Close the SAV and first exhale deeply as suggested in the dignitas study. I guess this will remove all the oxygen and carbondioxide which is still in the lungs.
• And breath pure nitrogen in, so this should have a faster effect then during my blackout test.

 

[Sonny77]

Hello guys, I have a similar question for the gas experts among you:

I use nitrogen and the GasMonkeys method, with Lung Demand Valve and SCBA!

My nitrogen bottle has 5 liters at 200 bar. How long will the contents last, assuming continuous breathing?

Would a 10 liter bottle be safer or would 5 liters be enough?

The reason for the question is that the time of discovery is delayed as long as possible. If the compressed air breathing apparatus starts to warn due to the high pressure, my neighbors would hear it and possibly call the emergency services.

A man I really respected said that it would be enough. But I would like to read other opinions about it again.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Hello guys, I have a similar question for the gas experts among you:

I use nitrogen and the GasMonkeys method, with Lung Demand Valve and SCBA!

My nitrogen bottle has 5 liters at 200 bar. How long will the contents last, assuming continuous breathing?

Would a 10 liter bottle be safer or would 5 liters be enough?

The reason for the question is that the time of discovery is delayed as long as possible. If the compressed air breathing apparatus starts to warn due to the high pressure, my neighbors would hear it and possibly call the emergency services.

A man I really respected said that it would be enough. But I would like to read other opinions about it again.

I guess it also depends if you're going to do a blackout test. As @ztem said above a pp ldv goes crazy after blacking out.

 

[unebarque]

Hi, I think I majorly screwed up: I got a CGA-580 regulator and 1/4 in. hose but my tank is BS3. Are these incompatible? (I haven't received my tank yet to find out.) I was trying to find a BS3 to CGA-580 adaptor but could not find one online... does this mean I need to buy a BS3 regulator and 3/8 in hose?

 

[ztem]

I was trying to find a BS3 to CGA-580 adaptor but could not find one online... does this mean I need to buy a BS3 regulator

You can connect a CGA-580 reg to your BS3 valve but the price of those adapters is almost the same as a new regulator,it's better to buy a BS3 reg like these two


This is the hose barb for those two regulators.You need Oxygen or PVC tubing(1/4" or 3/8" ID).
This one has a hose barb.

 

[unebarque]

You can connect a CGA-580 reg to your BS3 valve but the price of those adapters is almost the same as a new regulator

Thanks for explaining! Thoughts on the below flow regulator? Has a BS3 male connection in the back. I found it on one of the popular shopping sites, relatively cheap. Seems too good to be true? The flow display goes up to 20 LPM, which is sufficient, and it also operates for up to 230 bar tanks. The post claims that it's compatible for both nitrogen and argon, which is a bit suspicious

 

[ztem]

Yeah that's viable too.

The post claims that it's compatible for both nitrogen and argon, which is a bit suspicious

Because the connection of nitrogen,argon is the same in the UK(BS341 NO.3(G5/8 INT)).

 

[unebarque]

Yeah that's viable too.

Because the connection of nitrogen,argon is the same in the UK(BS341 NO.3(G5/8 INT)).

Oh that wasn't what I was referring to as suspicious: it's the fact that the measured LPM should be different for the two gases right (i.e., 15LPM on an argon-calibrated flowmeter is not 15LPM if it's used with nitrogen)?

 

[anonaon]

Oh that wasn't what I was referring to as suspicious: it's the fact that the measured LPM should be different for the two gases right (i.e., 15LPM on an argon-calibrated flowmeter is not 15LPM if it's used with nitrogen)?

Correct but its not a huge difference. Argon is a heavier gas anyways so 15LPM on an argon-calibrated regulator is closer to ~20LPM for nitrogen

 

[ztem]

Oh that wasn't what I was referring to as suspicious: it's the fact that the measured LPM should be different for the two gases right (i.e., 15LPM on an argon-calibrated flowmeter is not 15LPM if it's used with nitrogen)?

If I were you, I wouldn't care at all, It was really ridiculous that for a few LPM up or down people talked about this several times in the past.You have more important things to worry about like making a proper exit bag.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

After precise measurements, I have finally found the exact coupler needed to connect EEBD hoods with plug-in nipples to Nitrogen regulators: it has to be a CEJN or Parker breathing air coupler with a Nominal flow diameter of 7.4mm with the proper thread for your regulator, which can be found with filters in the search. This type of plug-in nipple is the same used in SCBA demand valves.

Example for a Nitrogen regulator with a male G1/4" outlet:​

View attachment 116923

This enables the direct implementation of a full hood setup without modifying the hose.

Does anyone know whether the CEJN 341 and 342 series will also work?

The Drager hood manual only mentions CEJN 344 or Rectus 95 KS.

 

[ztem]

Does anyone know whether the CEJN 341 and 342 series will also work?

Buy and try it yourself if you are curious.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Buy and try it yourself if you are curious.

It's not possible to refund it, that's why I rather not.


I already found a source for the 344 coupler. The problem is it can take up to a month to get it delivered.

 

[ztem]

The problem is it can take up to a month to get it delivered.

Where are you from?