Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Cheffo]

Car, small room ... not much of a difference ?

Cars have spaces to leak. I am sure that room was in research lab setting. It would have needed a huge amount of nitrogen and would have to be air tight or close to it. No expert here at all, but I think you would have to suck the oxygen out before putting the Nitrogen in, or they would mix. From what I read on the PP Forum (I am over 50 so I can chat there) anything but the bag is impracticle and untested. Apparently thousands of people have used the exit bag effectively, any other method is simply experimenting. You can use turkey bags from Amazon, they are very clear, when you put them on they don't feel clostrophic. You can see everything clearly. If you have someone with you can look at them.

 

[groucho]

Now that EM has gone does anyone know a source of the barrel style regulators? Or their technical name?

 

[Falling Slowly]

Now that EM has gone does anyone know a source of the barrel style regulators? Or their technical name?

Are you referring to nitrogen click-style regulators, that look like this:

 

[MG_39]

Stop asking this. Several people, including me, have answered your question already. Doubting 15-25LPM cuz of stress/panic during your CTB is literally the definition of fear mongering when people in this forum have CTB'd with it. Stress/panic will NOT affect how much air you breathe (not enough to make a significant difference).

As others have said, when youre in movement, you require more air. High performance athelets or people running out of a burning building may require more than 25LPM of air. Unless you plan on CTB'ing doing jumping jacks or running a mile with a large nitrogen tank on your back, between 15-25LPM will suffice

At rest, the average male breathes anywhere from only 5-10 litres per minute. 25LPM is 2.5x that larger amount. Its more than enough No amount of stress or any other mental gymnastics you do in your head can change that.

If you are somehow still unsatisfied, get a regulator that allows 40LPM or 100LPM or whatever number satisfies you and use it.

Its perfectly valid to be skeptical and have your concerns but for fucks sake the fear mongering is running rampant lately

This is my last post in this thread, I will leave it to the small group of experts we have here, me as an amateur with zero understanding of this method, and close to no technical knowledge/experience (comparing to you guys of course) that question things will just result in fear mongering, and I don't see it likely that I can be a part of a productive discussion.

But don't tell people what they can discuss or not.

The answer you gave was not an answer to my question. I asked about "What was his reasoning behind this" According to Greenberg it could apparently cause other problems. And if it can then it's certainly a VERY valid question, because I can't see the risks with 40lpm with an inert gas, when it's not a risk for breathing oxygen (Or maybe it is, and you need to contact the large producers of EEBD rescue hoods so they can hire you as consultants.

I mean it could save them from a possible law suit if for example the lung pressure mm Hg is so high so it could cause damage.

And this comment from you

If you are somehow still unsatisfied, get a regulator that allows 40LPM or 100LPM or whatever number satisfies you and use it.

do you think that's a good comment, if someone read this and use 100lpm in a eebd hood, going up to levels as high as 100lpm, that would be something that could cause problems because of the pressure.

I think some people here need to climb down from their high horses. I DON'T see myself as an expert, I don't have enough data to see what is suitable or not, and neither have you guys, so people who are interested in discussing even things that you might see as small details that doesn't matter, should be allowed to discuss without you screaming "fearmongering"

Ps. I'm not interested in discussing more here, I do my tests myself with breathing oxygen and measure co2 levels at different lpm.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Why do you need 50L? Are you trying to kil godzilla?

Haha.

I'm actually considering the full room air displacement method.
My room is suitable for it, because it's well insulated and there are no ventilation methods apart from opening the door.

With this method I wouldn't have to worry about the plastic bag or SI causing failure.

What was his reasoning behind

I'm asking because I'm curious, I can't really see why it wouldn't be wise when it's suitable when it's used for the real purpose of a eebd hood. And I don't say that 25lpm wouldn't work good, but when around 40lpm is recommended for breathing oxygen, and you can breathe it freely, I can't see why it would be a bad idea with an inert gas. (Ps not trying to argue, just discuss)

This thread discusses the matter of flow rate a bit: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/inert-gas-cylinder-regulator-general-refresher-summary.30657
It also has some replies by @Greenberg. Especially page 2 contains some important information you might want to see.



About the matter of discussing, I think the best one can do is use the search feature of the forum to gather as much information as possible from all the previous threads about inert gas and do testing yourself, then draw conclusions yourself.

 

[anonaon]

I'm actually considering the full room air displacement method.

You might be intrested in liquid nitrogen. It's what the Sacro uses (more details on the PPH)

 

[ClownWorld2023]

You might be intrested in liquid nitrogen. It's what the Sacro uses (more details on the PPH)

I wish it was readily accessible for me.
I looked around for a while, but apparently you can't easily buy liquid nitrogen as a private person in my country.
I don't know whether it's because of laws/regulations or the companies just refusing service for whatever reason.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

The answer you gave was not an answer to my question. I asked about "What was his reasoning behind this" According to Greenberg it could apparently cause other problems. And if it can then it's certainly a VERY valid question, because I can't see the risks with 40lpm with an inert gas, when it's not a risk for breathing oxygen (Or maybe it is, and you need to contact the large producers of EEBD rescue hoods so they can hire you as consultants.

I think nobody knows the answer to this question. Maybe the risk of something ripping apart increases at a higher flow.

 

[winterparty]

I want to CTB today. Any recommendations? I will test for leaks now and I will test it on a dummy head with a gas detector. I will not use a oximeter as I think that's enough.

 

[anonaon]

I want to CTB today. Any recommendations? I will test for leaks now and I will test it on a dummy head with a gas detector. I will not use a oximeter as I think that's enough.

Whats ur method again? Exit bag?

 

[winterparty]

I'm using an eebd hood by 3m scott with a quick coupler and nitrogen. My first test with 25 LPM was fine. The gas detector went down very fast and the last few percentages went down considerably slower. I stopped the gas flow at 0.9% oxygen. The hood is fine. It's all fine. The TV wasn't a good anchor point for the gas bottle though so I'm not sure whether I can do it today. Now I need to have the guts to actually do it.

EDIT: I did a leak test and there was a small leak at the quick coupler. Fixed it. I guess I'm ready to go when I find a anchor point for my gas bottle. The TV wasn't really a good fit.

 

[ztem]

I stopped at 0.9% oxygen

What was your flow rate?

I did a leak test and there was a small leak at the quick coupler. Fixed it

Do the oxygen test again,you should be able to get Vizzy's result(with 20-25LPM).

 

[winterparty]

I was using 25 LPM. I kind of want to show my setup but I'm afraid of it for some reason.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

The forum's search function isn't working for me right now, so I'll ask this question here:

Anyone here who bought a EEBD set and actually tested breathing oxygen with the hood in a lying down position?
Does it breathe comfortably (CO2 purged properly) ?


I found a local source that sells an EEBD hood and hose, without the oxygen cylinder.
I could purchase it for cheap if I don't need the oxygen cylinder for any other purposes (like testing).

If someone else has already tested this, please let me know.



EDIT: Nvm. I just found out that most EEBDs use a flow rate around 35-40 LPM, which is way higher than used for the inert gas method.
So I can't use the EEBD set's oxygen supply for testing purposes.
I'll most likely order the standalone EEBD hood.

 

[FailerQt.]

The flowmeter that GasMonkey suggested has a hose barb,so you don't need to worry about buying the right size hose barb but you should worry about buying a hose with the right ID size for the hose barb of that flowmeter

I noticed you're still active here, so decided to see if I could get a bit assistance. I ended up getting the flowmeter GasMonkey recommended and as you said it has the barb. The site is however in German and I am not sure what kind of hose I need to exactly get since I can't speak German. Is there anything you'd recommend? Feel free to pm me if sharing here is not allowed. And thank you in advance if you answer!

 

[ztem]

If the size of your barb is 1/4"(6mm), then you need Oxygen tubing or PVC tubing(1/4"ID).In theory,1/4" barb is for hose/tube with 1/4" ID but one of the members said it's hard to connect 1/4" ID to 1/4" barb.You can buy PVC tubing with 3/8" ID and if the connection is not tight enough,use a hose clamp.

 

[FailerQt.]

If the size of your barb is 1/4"(6mm), then you need Oxygen tubing or PVC tubing(1/4"ID).In theory,1/4" barb is for hose/tube with 1/4" ID but one of the members said it's hard to connect 1/4" ID to 1/4" barb.You can buy PVC tubing with 3/8" ID and if the connection is not tight enough,use a hose clamp.

Thank you!

 

[unebarque]

Can anyone PM me sites to order a nitrogen tank from (UK) without business verification? Thanks!

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Can anyone PM me sites to order a nitrogen tank from (UK) without business verification? Thanks!

There's a source mentioned in the PPH.

You can check whether they can send to the UK.

I don't know how it works with the UK customs (whether they will allow it to be imported, and tariffs imposed, if any).

Keep in mind that the shipping costs can be really high, and that refill is pretty much impossible, though you may be able to find local welder shops that are willing to refill.

 

[DeadHead]

Can anyone PM me sites to order a nitrogen tank from (UK) without business verification? Thanks!

I tried to msg you as I just ordered in UK, however because you are new I can't pm you
I would appreciate it if one of the experts here could answer my (probably retarded) question.

Here is a pic of my nitrogen tank below and I've also posted a link to the regulator I am thinking of buying. To join the regulator to the tank, you literally have to rotate the whole regulator round and round until it's screwed in - is this correct? I can't imagine how else you would do it. So if the regulator is heavy, this could be difficult for people with certain medical conditions.
This regulator: https://norsemensafety.co.uk/produc...MI9YXRl_OIgQMVSNftCh0RNwg3EAQYASABEgLycPD_BwE

 

[ztem]

To join the regulator to the tank,

Connect the reg to the cylinder and tighten it with a wrench,open the cylinder valve slowly and fully and adjust the flow rate with this,that's it.

 

[outrider567]

Espe

Connect the reg to the cylinder and tighten it with a wrench,open the cylinder valve slowly and fully and adjust the flow rate with this,that's it.

Yes, and tightening it with a wrench is of paramount importance

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

I recently received my SCUBA materials and I decided to do a few tests. Firstly I tested how much the pressure drops after opening and closing the cylinder. The pressure barely dropped after 10 minutes waiting, so this was all good. After that I decided to proceed with the blackout test. While I was doing this I had an oximeter around my finger. The first blackout test failed due to this oximeter which started to beep and scared me. I probably also purged some air since the pressure suddenly dropped to 190 bar. I proceeded with my second attempt after turning off all the alarms of the oximeter.
And it worked, I passed out for a very short time. First everything got black and then I felt my hand, which was holding the mask, falling on my leg.
So far so good I guess. The total time from pushing the mask against my facing and waking up was maybe 50 seconds if I look at the image below.

But the thing which worries me is that the pressure dropped to +-182 bar during my second attempt. So this means that I consumed 8*5L = 40 liters in this short time. So this means that I would consume the remaining part in 18 minutes. What am I missing? Is it only the first minute that you consume so much and will the consumption go down after passing out?

 

[dm1444]

But the thing which worries me is that the pressure dropped to +-182 bar during my second attempt. So this means that I consumed 8*5L = 40 liters in this short time. So this means that I would consume the remaining part in 18 minutes. What am I missing? Is it only the first minute that you consume so much and will the consumption go down after passing out?

Direct-acting regulators have a dropping characteristic, i.e. the operating pressure also decreases as gas is consumed

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Direct-acting regulators have a dropping characteristic, i.e. the operating pressure also decreases as gas is consumed

My mask already felt off (I didn't make it tight, otherwise I probably would be dead by now) before reading the pressure gauge (so no consumption at that point). So this dropping characteristic can't be the reason. I think I guess I was stressed and was breathing fast. So I think my question is, what happens to this fast breathing after passing out? Or should I be really focused on my breathing before and after putting my mask on?

 

[dm1444]

NoFutureAnymore Is the valve on the cylinder fully open?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

NoFutureAnymore Is the valve on the cylinder fully open?

Yes, it was fully open.

 

[dm1444]

Yes, it was fully open.

Have you checked all the connections for leaks?

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Have you checked all the connections for leaks?

Yes, I did a pressure test by closing the cylinder valve. The pressure remained almost the same for 10 minutes. It really went down with +/-8 bar by doing my blackout test.

 

[dm1444]

NoFutureAnymore

Did you buy the tank new (with gas) or refill it?