Do anyone have the idea about how to take Propranolol with SN?

[autumnal]

i suspect some, especially the immediate, vomiting is due to anxiety, and I think this is where propranolol amd/or benzos in moderate doses can assist when taken shortly before. My primary concern with taking 1 or 2g of propranolol with sn is actually inducing angina due to arrhythmia or just general low cardiac output and perfusion before unconsciousness sets in. Unfortunately, I don't know if there is much evidence to prove or disprove this concern.

While anxiety may well be present, the vomiting is more typically attributed to the body's instinctive reaction to the poison.

The PPH mentions:

The propanolol interferes with the compensatory cardiac response to the effects of the methaemoglobin roduced by the nitrite. As the brain receives insufficient oxygen, a message is sent to the heart to increase blood flow. However, with propanolol present, the message is blocked and with no increase in blood-flow to the brain, consciousness is quickly lost.​

​

Does that address your concern?

 

[enjolras]

Have you all considered what kind of taste large amounts of Propranolol powder is susceptible to add ? It seems bitter and able to numb the taste buds (at least). I'm wondering if taking it separately slightly in advance would help with the SN (or on the contrary)

 

[Aap]

Somewhat, the physiologic mechanisms are more complex than presented, as the beta blockade will reduce cardiac output, but the body still has compensatory mechanisms, such as vasoconstriction via alpha agonists (Norepinephrine and to a lesser extent epinephrine). Honestly labetolol would be the better drug in theory.

I don't disagree mostly with what is written, I'm just not sure on how many cases and how closely they were monitored from which the PPH is making the recommendation.

Regarding propranolol, It does have local anesthetic action, as does Benadryl btw. In all honesty I've tried swallowing a small amount of lidocaine and found it made anything immediately after MUCH harder to keep down, contrary to what I would have thought. Ymmv greatly

 

[enjolras]

I myself dislike the sensation with "touch" after anesthetised locally. I'm imagining it in the mouth, on the tongue and lips but in the throat it must be special. You must not feel the saliva, or like you lost "muscles". Like a narrowing ? Anyway, I pondered of the possible effect since the R2D movement seems to experiment blindly when it's new and we have no SN testimonials of 1-2g Propranolol (I think)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/pphs-3-drug-mixture-no-go.38205/#post-708188

Tbh, Propranolol is not so new. There seems to be no opportunity to complain when 2g is blended with the DDMP (said extremely bitter but there are other ingredients)

 

[Maybe the end]

Agree you that vomiting is some degree due to anxiety. I personally may prefer to overcome the anxiety or uncomfortable via meditation instead of drugs. Don't know how much it can help with the biological SI. And when speaking of the reaction to SN during that 20 minutes is different for different people, it's somehow like saying it depends on how your body biologically get along with the chemical action of SN naturally plus the affect of psychological status. So it is not only about biology and chemistry there? I guess. I do not have much science background, don't know how kind of theoretical training needed here to study the issue.

i suspect some, especially the immediate, vomiting is due to anxiety, and I think this is where propranolol amd/or benzos in moderate doses can assist when taken shortly before. My primary concern with taking 1 or 2g of propranolol with sn is actually inducing angina due to arrhythmia or just general low cardiac output and perfusion before unconsciousness sets in. Unfortunately, I don't know if there is much evidence to prove or disprove this concern.

You guys really do a lot of homework ( I feel a lot more than a degree course). Thank you for sharing.

 

[enjolras]

My primary concern with taking 1 or 2g of propranolol with sn is actually inducing angina due to arrhythmia or just general low cardiac output and perfusion before unconsciousness sets in. Unfortunately, I don't know if there is much evidence to prove or disprove this concern.

You're bringing in some fresh air to the forums. I appreciate a lot the food for thought. Your remarks everywhere gave me a lot to think about.

I'm inclined to trust only what is proven and tested. To this extent, I'm certain that 2g of Propranolol must be sequencing fine without your angina concern when, for instance, the DDMP2 cocktail enters in action with unconsciousness in SUB 10 minutes. This appears verified in Oregon without heard of negative feedback (I've seen video with an attendance of dozens of persons, read articles, nothing leaked as unpeaceful)
SN can take longer, and as you said elsewhere, for some, random times, exceptionally longer than 15-20 minutes. Then the norm is a different new scenario.

I don't disagree mostly with what is written, I'm just not sure on how many cases and how closely they were monitored from which the PPH is making the recommendation.

Therefore, I understand where you come from ! (or similarly, I approve the right to doubt). Where are the observations of PN : are we the guinea pigs of a mad scientist ? The truth must lie somewhere in between

 

[Aap]

Correct regarding ddmp2. Time to unconsciousness should generally be very quickly due to the high dose of diazepam an morphine resulting in anesthesia, and any time post consumption and prior to anesthesia would be covered by morphine and valium. I would be happy to take ddmp2.

 

[someonewillhelpme]

@enjolras , @jgm63 , @Quarky00 , @Living sucks : I am a little confused on how much and when to consume propranalol.
Should I be adding 800mg propranolol to the SN after dissolving SN in water?
From @JumperGeo 's posting: I gathered 80mg propranolol taken 1 hour 15mts before SN
There's a huge difference between 800mg and 80mg.
This post

Spoiler

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/pph-propranolol-dosage-makes-me-doubt-them.28789/

also caused concern

 

[Quarky00]

Should I be adding 800mg propranolol to the SN after dissolving SN in water?

No .

You can read here about dosage and practice in general. And it's all based on what other members described.


PPH is not clear about propanolol with SN, and it's confusing. Their suggested dosage of 2g is an overdose in itself. Taking SN with such huge amount of propanolol is "overkill". You can choose to do so, as they suggested, and in that case, because it's such a big dosage, it will start affecting quicker and will cause death and fainting quicker, along with SN.

However, most people use propanolol with SN to reduce tachycardia (rather than to OD on it). Ideally one would take propanolol with paracetemol 1h before SN intake for maximum effects.

You can see from examples people take propanolol 1h before and their dosages:


Goodbye Thread | Sanctioned Suicide


[Regimen/Goodbye] ☆STRIKE ME DOWN!☆ | Sanctioned Suicide


My Goodbye Note to SS - SN | Sanctioned Suicide

 

[Busdriver]

This thread is full with the intelligent expert members (@Aap , @autumnal ,@enjolras , @GoodPersonEffed ,@jgm63 ,@Jumper Geo ,@Living sucks ,@Quarky00 ,and others). I am inviting @Suez and @nitrogen.

I am a bit confused to be honest.

The general consensus is to use Propranolol to lessen the tachycardia. For that, doses between 20-120mg are mentioned by members.

I think we all agree that Propranolol now is a luxuary (according to SS) potentiator (according to PPH) in the SN regimen and could deliver death quicker (if dose is higher, i.e. 1g), which is what we all want.

Who else thinks an up to 40mg dose 1h before SN intake combined with an up to 1g dose together with SN intake is a good idea?

@Quarky00, why are you against it?
I know we shouldn't take PPH at face value, but you said in the message before

PPH is not clear about propanolol with SN, and it's confusing. Their suggested dosage of 2g is an overdose in itself. Taking SN with such huge amount of propanolol is "overkill". You can choose to do so, as they suggested, and in that case, because it's such a big dosage, it will start affecting quicker and will cause death and fainting quicker, along with SN.

However, most people use propanolol with SN to reduce tachycardia (rather than to OD on it). Ideally one would take propanolol with paracetemol 1h before SN intake for maximum effects.

Perhaps, it is best to adhere with the 20mg-120mg dose, as I cannot remember a member CTB'ing with ~1g of propranolol.

What do you guys think?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Who else thinks an up to 40mg dose 1h before SN intake combined with an up to 1g dose together with SN intake is a good idea

I think it's a good idea.

If I do SN, I will take lower doses of propanol twice in my regimen for tachycardia, and a high amount of propanolol dissolved with the SN in hopes of losing consciousness (and death) more quickly.

 

[nitrogen]

This thread is full with the intelligent expert members (@Aap , @autumnal ,@enjolras , @GoodPersonEffed ,@jgm63 ,@Jumper Geo ,@Living sucks ,@Quarky00 ,and others). I am inviting @Suez and @nitrogen.

Put all of us in a room and lock the door. Maybe only 1 or 2 will make it out alive shortly after.

Mwuah-fuckin-ha-ha-ha!

And......Kisses!!!

 

[Aap]

Taking propranolol in gram amounts is begging to have a heart arrhythmia and possibly heart attack before passing out from SN, which one does not want.

The reason this isn't an issue in the Oregon cocktail (though it has already been replaced with elavil) is the morphine and Valium act more quickly and would cover any pain.

 

[autumnal]

Put all of us in a room and lock the door. Maybe only 1 or 2 will make it out alive shortly after.
[...]

Put me in a locked room with a couple of those individuals, and I wouldn't want to be alive shortly after

 

[nitrogen]

Put me in a locked room with a couple of those individuals, and I wouldn't want to be alive shortly after

Wink wink.... Here's the plan. You poison them with propranolmao, then I write "SS debate club" with their blood on the wall. But if you don't make the move soon enough, I might die from puking my lungs out, blood vessel explosion, or having my eyes stuck aiming at the back of my head. As a word of caution for you, don't get killed or get pregnant along the way.

It's just a joke, people. You know I love you all.

 

[Living sucks]

Put all of us in a room and lock the door. Maybe only 1 or 2 will make it out alive shortly after.

Maybe this is my ctb plan in the making i.e. murder, looking like an accident. :/

 

[enjolras]

(@Aap , @autumnal ,@enjolras , @GoodPersonEffed ,@jgm63 ,@Jumper Geo ,@Living sucks ,@Quarky00 ,and others).

Let's be appreciative of the alphabetical sorting to spare sensitivities ! I bow to lovers of order.

Put me in a locked room with a couple of those individuals, and I wouldn't want to be alive shortly after

​

Come on, there's a kind of love in France we call "l'amour vache" (cow love - god knows what's the root of this expression)
Definition : a romantic relationship where both partners show aggression (physical or verbal) towards each other
...tough / brutal love is entertainment that prevents to die bored. Celebrate

I know ya'll better because of the fun.

Without you it doesn't happen
Without you it doesn't start




We're on the enchanted carousel
​

After this silly remark, @enjolras can start the day !

 

[autumnal]

Come on, there's a kind of love in France we call "l'amour vache" (cow love - god knows what's the root of this expression) ​

Definition : a romantic relationship where both partners show aggression (physical or verbal) towards each other
...tough / brutal love is entertainment that prevents to die bored. Celebrate

​

After this silly remark, @enjolras can start the day !

In English, we would probably call that a 'love-hate relationship'. But no, neither that nor cow love describes my situation with those individuals

 

[HelensNepenthe]

One user on the Exit forum took their life with SN with a combination of propanol. Nitschke gave him the "green light". The name has been redacted for the user's privacy.

 

[enjolras]

Taking propranolol in gram amounts is begging to have a heart arrhythmia and possibly heart attack before passing out from SN, which one does not want.

The reason this isn't an issue in the Oregon cocktail (though it has already been replaced with elavil) is the morphine and Valium act more quickly and would cover any pain.

One user on the Exit forum took their life with SN with a combination of propanol. Philip gave him the "green light". The name has been redacted for the user's privacy.

View attachment 36495

So long in advance ?

 

[HelensNepenthe]

So long in advance ?

I'm not following what you're saying.

 

[Living sucks]

I'm not following what you're saying.

30 mins prior?
So far in advance? (Translate)

 

[enjolras]

He took the 800mg IR 30 minutes in advance of SN ? No goodbye thread describing the live event I suppose ?

Thx for the pat on the back @Living sucks

 

[HelensNepenthe]

He took the 800mg IR 30 minutes in advance of SN ? No goodbye thread describing the live event I suppose ?

I'm afraid I do not have access to the forums to check if there was a goodbye thread. This was relayed on one of Nitschke's social media platforms where a daughter is grieving over the passing of her father last week.

 

[Aap]

I would definitely be hesitant to take so much so far in advance. It definitely has a place along with the antiemetic in moderate dosage..

here is what we do and don't know. We do know that many or almost all SN failures do not seem to result in long term damage. We do NOT know if the combination (1-2g plus sn) will result in stroke/hypoxic brain injury if a failure. Likewise, there are VERY few first hand accounts of high dose propranolol plus SN regarding timing or any myocardial discomfort even in a success.

now, there may be (or is) a better place for high dose propranolol with other agents, but my general feedback is geared towards harm reduction

 

[Quarky00]

But if you don't make the move soon enough, I might die from puking my lungs out, blood vessel explosion, or having my eyes stuck aiming at the back of my head.

or SN enema .

Put all of us in a room and lock the door.

I would like to see that sketch written .
@Underscore

 

[autumnal]

I would definitely be hesitant to take so much so far in advance. It definitely has a place along with the antiemetic in moderate dosage..

here is what we do and don't know. We do know that many or almost all SN failures do not seem to result in long term damage. We do NOT know if the combination (1-2g plus sn) will result in stroke/hypoxic brain injury if a failure. Likewise, there are VERY few first hand accounts of high dose propranolol plus SN regarding timing or any myocardial discomfort even in a success.

now, there may be (or is) a better place for high dose propranolol with other agents, but my general feedback is geared towards harm reduction

That is a very good point you make. But I assume there is little doubt that, if successful, an attempt involving both SN and a large dose (1-2g) of propranolol would be faster and therefore potentially more peaceful than using SN alone? So essentially it's a trade-off between a better attempt if successful, versus a potentially worse outcome if failed?

 

[Aap]

I would not take it that far, as developing an arrhythmia may induce panic, and an MI is not peaceful. The two together will be faster, but I would say we do not know enough to conclude anything regarding peacefulness. My other comment regarding failure also holds.

I characterize my responses based on some reasoned guess (estimate) about probability for a population. For example, if there were a 1 chance in 10 that an individual were to press a button and receive a terrible injury but a 9 in 10 chance she will receive a great reward, for that individual it may make sense to take the chance. However, if that individual had 9 of her closest friends and family there to have the option of pressing the button, it may make no sense to her to recommend she or anyone else press it, knowing either she or one of her family were guaranteed to be horribly injured.

please note, these are numbers pulled for an example and not intended to represent anything regarding probability of damage with sn and propranolol. All of my public responses are made using this calculus, and those few whom I've spoken to privately have received more frank opinions.

 

[Jumper Geo]

This thread is full with the intelligent expert members (@Aap , @autumnal ,@enjolras , @GoodPersonEffed ,@jgm63 ,@Jumper Geo ,@Living sucks ,@Quarky00 ,and others). I am inviting @Suez and @nitrogen.

I am a bit confused to be honest.

The general consensus is to use Propranolol to lessen the tachycardia. For that, doses between 20-120mg are mentioned by members.

I think we all agree that Propranolol now is a luxuary (according to SS) potentiator (according to PPH) in the SN regimen and could deliver death quicker (if dose is higher, i.e. 1g), which is what we all want.

Who else thinks an up to 40mg dose 1h before SN intake combined with an up to 1g dose together with SN intake is a good idea?

@Quarky00, why are you against it?
I know we shouldn't take PPH at face value, but you said in the message before


Perhaps, it is best to adhere with the 20mg-120mg dose, as I cannot remember a member CTB'ing with ~1g of propranolol.

What do you guys think?

I would like to say I am not a scientist my information has come from reading the pph and googling the effects of propranolol and how long it takes to be effective and how long the effects last, reading SS posts and asking professionals for their advice, so thank you to everyone who has contributed. At the end of the day its the biggest decision you will ever make in your life, if something goes wrong it's you who has to live and accept that decision and consequences, so please do your own research.

My opinion I will use propranolol for these two reasons it will prevent tachycardia the heart racing and beating fast the second reason is when the brain receives a message there is insufficient oxygen, a message is sent to the heart to increase blood flow but a dose of propranolol will block this message, preventing an increase in oxygen, so in theory you should pass out quicker.

Members have said, we have numerous accounts of failures without using propranolol who have walked away unharmed but as the pph doesn't highlight failures we are unsure of the safety, if something did go wrong with the large amounts used, there are cases where people have just taken
propranolol and seem to be ok but just adding to the mix can increase the risk.

Another thing to look out for, make sure your pills are immediate not slow release, I will take 120mg one hour before and mix another 120mg with the SN as I am relying on the SN to do the job not propranolol, I will wait to see if we get more information from the pph and see how long it took there members to lose consciousness.

Jesus I wish I jumped from beachy head or hanged myself now after all this reading and researching,

https://www.forhims.com/blog/propranolol-faqs-25-common-propranolol-questions-answered

Propanolol Overdose

aka Toxicology Conundrum 044 A 27-year old female weighing 60kg presents to ED approximately one hour after swallowing 70 x 40mg propranolol tablets (= 2.8 grams) with suicidal intent. At the time of assessment she is drowsy (GCS 13) with a heart rate of 46 bpm and BP 100/60. Fifteen minutes...

litfl.com

Cheers

Geo

 

[Busdriver]

I think it's a good idea.

If I do SN, I will take lower doses of propanol twice in my regimen for tachycardia, and a high amount of propanolol dissolved with the SN in hopes of losing consciousness (and death) more quickly.

I saw that post with your regimen. Very interesting.
I did some thinking and it might be better to put the high dose on hold, since we have not seen successful CTB attempts with a >1g dose of propranolol yet.
But if you are confident enough, you could try the bigger dose.

Put all of us in a room and lock the door. Maybe only 1 or 2 will make it out alive shortly after.

Hahaha, you are funny. It would be good to know, if all of you guys used SN in that room, what each member's propranolol dosage was and the timing in the regimen.
But seriously, if you guys wouldn't be tormented by mental and/or physical suffering, it would have been a great Management Team or High Council or Debate Club.

Put me in a locked room with a couple of those individuals, and I wouldn't want to be alive shortly after

Hhahaha

Wink wink.... Here's the plan. You poison them with propranolmao, then I write "SS debate club" with their blood on the wall. But if you don't make the move soon enough, I might die from puking my lungs out, blood vessel explosion, or having my eyes stuck aiming at the back of my head. As a word of caution for you, don't get killed or get pregnant along the way.

It's just a joke, people. You know I love you all.

That is some bad SN. Need that tested please lol.

Let's be appreciative of the alphabetical sorting to spare sensitivities ! I bow to lovers of order.

The order was different first, but then I realized about possible sensitivities. Good spot!
I forgot to add 'HelensNepenthe' and 'Yomyom', because I thought that they are more the 'N' type of guys.

​

One user on the Exit forum took their life with SN with a combination of propanol. Nitschke gave him the "green light". The name has been redacted for the user's privacy.

View attachment 36495

Very interesting @HelensNepenthe!
So this person took 80+800mg=880mg of propranolol. 80mg as part of normal routine and 800mg 30 minutes prior SN intake.
PN approves and the person successfully CTB'ed considering the 'grieving daughter of the person'.
I wonder how painful it was...

I would definitely be hesitant to take so much so far in advance. It definitely has a place along with the antiemetic in moderate dosage..

here is what we do and don't know. We do know that many or almost all SN failures do not seem to result in long term damage. We do NOT know if the combination (1-2g plus sn) will result in stroke/hypoxic brain injury if a failure. Likewise, there are VERY few first hand accounts of high dose propranolol plus SN regarding timing or any myocardial discomfort even in a success.

now, there may be (or is) a better place for high dose propranolol with other agents, but my general feedback is geared towards harm reduction

Exactly, there are too few cases of successful SN+high dose propranolol CTB attempts to advise this high dose of propranolol in our regimen.

I would like to say I am not a scientist my information has come from reading the pph and googling the effects of propranolol and how long it takes to be effective and how long the effects last, reading SS posts and asking professionals for their advice, so thank you to everyone who has contributed. At the end of the day its the biggest decision you will ever make in your life, if something goes wrong it's you who has to live and accept that decision and consequences, so please do your own research.

My opinion I will use propranolol for these two reasons it will prevent tachycardia the heart racing and beating fast the second reason is when the brain receives a message there is insufficient oxygen, a message is sent to the heart to increase blood flow but a dose of propranolol will block this message, preventing an increase in oxygen, so in theory you should pass out quicker.

Members have said, we have numerous accounts of failures without using propranolol who have walked away unharmed but as the pph doesn't highlight failures we are unsure of the safety, if something did go wrong with the large amounts used, there are cases where people have just taken
propranolol and seem to be ok but just adding to the mix can increase the risk.

Another thing to look out for, make sure your pills are immediate not slow release, I will take 120mg one hour before and mix another 120mg with the SN as I am relying on the SN to do the job not propranolol, I will wait to see if we get more information from the pph and see how long it took there members to lose consciousness.

Jesus I wish I jumped from beachy head or hanged myself now after all this reading and researching,

https://www.forhims.com/blog/propranolol-faqs-25-common-propranolol-questions-answered

Propanolol Overdose

aka Toxicology Conundrum 044 A 27-year old female weighing 60kg presents to ED approximately one hour after swallowing 70 x 40mg propranolol tablets (= 2.8 grams) with suicidal intent. At the time of assessment she is drowsy (GCS 13) with a heart rate of 46 bpm and BP 100/60. Fifteen minutes...

litfl.com

Cheers

Geo

You are right about the benefits for us including propranolol in the regimen, since it reduces the fast heart rate and it could also lead to passing out earlier.
I think it is a good to meet each other in the middle: 120mg 1h before and 120mg together with SN. I mean, 240mg is a lot less than 1-2g.

Knowing whether or not 1g is a best practise is akin to the case of the Rebreather: there are too few documented successful attempts. Time will tell...