Do anyone have the idea about how to take Propranolol with SN?

[enjolras]

Found out I can get Propra (generic) withOUT prescription in my country: 50 x 40mg for 1.90 € / 30 x 160mg for 6.60€

edit: Ah, no, 80mg & 160mg are PR (Prolonged Release)... 40mg max it is

 

[Aap]

Well there you go.

 

[Busdriver]

Found out I can get Propra withOUT prescription in my country: 50 x 40mg for 1.90 € / 30 x 160mg for 6.60€

Lucky man! I paid €75 for 100 x 10mg

 

[Jumper Geo]

I saw that post with your regimen. Very interesting.
I did some thinking and it might be better to put the high dose on hold, since we have not seen successful CTB attempts with a >1g dose of propranolol yet.
But if you are confident enough, you could try the bigger dose.


Hahaha, you are funny. It would be good to know, if all of you guys used SN in that room, what each member's propranolol dosage was and the timing in the regimen.
But seriously, if you guys wouldn't be tormented by mental and/or physical suffering, it would have been a great Management Team or High Council or Debate Club.


Hhahaha


That is some bad SN. Need that tested please lol.




The order was different first, but then I realized about possible sensitivities. Good spot!
I forgot to add 'HelensNepenthe' and 'Yomyom', because I thought that they are more the 'N' type of guys.

​

Very interesting @HelensNepenthe!
So this person took 80+800mg=880mg of propranolol. 80mg as part of normal routine and 800mg 30 minutes prior SN intake.
PN approves and the person successfully CTB'ed considering the 'grieving daughter of the person'.
I wonder how painful it was...



Exactly, there are too few cases of successful SN+high dose propranolol CTB attempts to advise this high dose of propranolol in our regimen.




You are right about the benefits for us including propranolol in the regimen, since it reduces the fast heart rate and it could also lead to passing out earlier.
I think it is a good to meet each other in the middle: 120mg 1h before and 120mg together with SN. I mean, 240mg is a lot less than 1-2g.

Knowing whether or not 1g is a best practise is akin to the case of the Rebreather: there are too few documented successful attempts. Time will tell...

Yes I agree but there is no scientific proof, lol but even PN is unsure as he originally said 2 grams and reduced it to 1 gram so it's trial and error I will wait to see reports back from the pph to see how fast people are losing consciousness as he is supplying them with phones to record it from start to finish and maybe we may hear some news on propranolol so my amounts are not set in stone I may increase or decrease depending on new trusted information.

What I don't want to do is increase the chances of vomiting it all up, so the minimum amount is my aim.

Edit: I am hoping a propranolol expert joins SS I have been told by a professional taking it mixed with SN in liquid form will be absorbed immediately but remember it's has to be immediate release PN and the PPH said not to use prolonged release. I am a novice but I thought if it's dissolved in water with SN it will still be effective immediately but that's something that needs to be researched mine are immedaite release so one less thing to worry about, haha.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Living sucks]

I'm going to add this for anecdotal reference because I feel it's helpful to all considering this:

A member ctb'd with SN using 800mg propanolol . Mixed together.
They reported no tachycardia.

 

[Jumper Geo]

Found out I can get Propra (generic) withOUT prescription in my country: 50 x 40mg for 1.90 € / 30 x 160mg for 6.60€

edit: Ah, no, 80mg & 160mg are PR (Prolonged Release)... 40mg max it is

Just a heads up Propanolol extended release can take up to 24 hours to dissolve, your goodbye thread would be a long one, lol. PN from The Peaceful Pill said you can't use them, the information I have come across it seems capsules are extended release, tablets and oral solution are immediate release but I would ask the pharmacist before purchasing them for correct information. You could ask if you open the capsule will the powder be immediate release then.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-... you remember, take,full benefit of this drug.

Cheers

Geo

 

[Suez]

I've noticed some people were worried about SN and possible Tachycardia. There was a paper that was being referred to:
Propranolol decreases tachycardia and improves symptoms in the Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS): Less is More
I just wondered how many people had read the article. Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia or Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) is a syndrome usually triggered when a person stands up after lying down. Most commonly affecting woman between the ages of 15-50, the symptoms include light-headedness, fainting and rapid heartbeat, which are relieved by lying down again. The only thing they do know for sure about POTS is that it is characterized clinically by sustained tachycardia upon standing that is not related to medical conditions or medications. Beta blockers, including propranolol, block the receptors that are responsible for the effects of epinephrine and norepinephrine (catecholamines produced by the sympathetic nervous system). Through reducing cardiac baroreceptor activation, lowering blood norepinephrine level, and inhibiting sympathetic nerve activity, it is likely reasonable that β-blockers might be a promising therapeutic option for the treatment of POTS but there are conflicting reports about their effectiveness. The reason why the authors in this paper decided to undertake these studies. However several β-blockers have been investigated for their effectiveness in treating POTS which makes for some interesting reading if you are wanting to find out more about possible treatments for Tachycardia if SN is your CTB method.
Tolerance to Beta-adrenergic blockers can be a problem in many patients with POTS. While reducing the heart rate (HR) in POTS would be useful if the tachycardia was "over-compensation" for a physiological stimuli (i.e., a truly hyperdynamic circulation), but this could be very counter-productive if the HR increase in POTS were purely compensatory (e.g., low stroke volume). In the current paper Raj et al states that low dose propranolol (20 mg) was found to be very effective at lowering standing HR and orthostatic tachycardia of patients with POTS acutely compared to placebo and this was associated with a symptomatic improvement.
However, a higher dose of propranolol (80 mg), elicited more complete beta-blockade with a further lowering of heart rate, compared to low dose propranolol and at higher doses improved symptoms such as palpitation and tremulousness were observed, while other symptoms did not improve (light-headedness, mental clouding, and shortness of breath). These data suggest that symptoms in POTS are not just due to orthostatic tachycardia or an elevated HR and that more effective beta-blockade might help the HR mediated symptoms, but not the other symptoms. So while low dose Propranolol does decrease HR and orthostatic tachycardia, higher dose propranolol elicits a complete blockade with an even further lowering of heart rate., albeit not necessarily a lessening of symptoms.

 

[Busdriver]

I've noticed some people were worried about SN and possible Tachycardia. There was a paper that was being referred to:
Propranolol decreases tachycardia and improves symptoms in the Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS): Less is More
I just wondered how many people had read the article. Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia or Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) is a syndrome usually triggered when a person stands up after lying down. Most commonly affecting woman between the ages of 15-50, the symptoms include light-headedness, fainting and rapid heartbeat, which are relieved by lying down again. The only thing they do know for sure about POTS is that it is characterized clinically by sustained tachycardia upon standing that is not related to medical conditions or medications. Beta blockers, including propranolol, block the receptors that are responsible for the effects of epinephrine and norepinephrine (catecholamines produced by the sympathetic nervous system). Through reducing cardiac baroreceptor activation, lowering blood norepinephrine level, and inhibiting sympathetic nerve activity, it is likely reasonable that β-blockers might be a promising therapeutic option for the treatment of POTS but there are conflicting reports about their effectiveness. The reason why the authors in this paper decided to undertake these studies. However several β-blockers have been investigated for their effectiveness in treating POTS which makes for some interesting reading if you are wanting to find out more about possible treatments for Tachycardia if SN is your CTB method.
Tolerance to Beta-adrenergic blockers can be a problem in many patients with POTS. While reducing the heart rate (HR) in POTS would be useful if the tachycardia was "over-compensation" for a physiological stimuli (i.e., a truly hyperdynamic circulation), but this could be very counter-productive if the HR increase in POTS were purely compensatory (e.g., low stroke volume). In the current paper Raj et al states that low dose propranolol (20 mg) was found to be very effective at lowering standing HR and orthostatic tachycardia of patients with POTS acutely compared to placebo and this was associated with a symptomatic improvement.
However, a higher dose of propranolol (80 mg), elicited more complete beta-blockade with a further lowering of heart rate, compared to low dose propranolol and at higher doses improved symptoms such as palpitation and tremulousness were observed, while other symptoms did not improve (light-headedness, mental clouding, and shortness of breath). These data suggest that symptoms in POTS are not just due to orthostatic tachycardia or an elevated HR and that more effective beta-blockade might help the HR mediated symptoms, but not the other symptoms. So while low dose Propranolol does decrease HR and orthostatic tachycardia, higher dose propranolol elicits a complete blockade with an even further lowering of heart rate., albeit not necessarily a lessening of symptoms.

Bottom line, a low dose of propranolol is good against tachycardia and a high dose (>80mg) could result in a quicker death at the cost of peacefulness?

A higher dose will give a complete blockade, lowering heart rate further (= less conversion of methemoglobin back to hemoglobin --> death occurs quicker). But bad known symptoms can be experienced which will be at the cost of peacefulness.

Did I understand that right?

A possible advise would then be to take low dose 2h before SN intake to mitigate tachycardia (according to article) and to take a big dose (around 800mg) during SN intake for peacefulness (according to PPH, but not according to article)?

 

[Busdriver]

I discussed that article earlier on with @Jumper Geo and I saw he composed an excellent regimen in the Partners Megathread based on that article.
Looking good, @Jumper Geo!

 

[ceelo]

I'm going to add this for anecdotal reference because I feel it's helpful to all considering this:

A member ctb'd with SN using 800mg propanolol . Mixed together.
They reported no tachycardia.

hard to report when youre dead though

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I've noticed some people were worried about SN and possible Tachycardia. There was a paper that was being referred to:
Propranolol decreases tachycardia and improves symptoms in the Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS): Less is More
I just wondered how many people had read the article. Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia or Postural Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) is a syndrome usually triggered when a person stands up after lying down. Most commonly affecting woman between the ages of 15-50, the symptoms include light-headedness, fainting and rapid heartbeat, which are relieved by lying down again. The only thing they do know for sure about POTS is that it is characterized clinically by sustained tachycardia upon standing that is not related to medical conditions or medications. Beta blockers, including propranolol, block the receptors that are responsible for the effects of epinephrine and norepinephrine (catecholamines produced by the sympathetic nervous system). Through reducing cardiac baroreceptor activation, lowering blood norepinephrine level, and inhibiting sympathetic nerve activity, it is likely reasonable that β-blockers might be a promising therapeutic option for the treatment of POTS but there are conflicting reports about their effectiveness. The reason why the authors in this paper decided to undertake these studies. However several β-blockers have been investigated for their effectiveness in treating POTS which makes for some interesting reading if you are wanting to find out more about possible treatments for Tachycardia if SN is your CTB method.
Tolerance to Beta-adrenergic blockers can be a problem in many patients with POTS. While reducing the heart rate (HR) in POTS would be useful if the tachycardia was "over-compensation" for a physiological stimuli (i.e., a truly hyperdynamic circulation), but this could be very counter-productive if the HR increase in POTS were purely compensatory (e.g., low stroke volume). In the current paper Raj et al states that low dose propranolol (20 mg) was found to be very effective at lowering standing HR and orthostatic tachycardia of patients with POTS acutely compared to placebo and this was associated with a symptomatic improvement.
However, a higher dose of propranolol (80 mg), elicited more complete beta-blockade with a further lowering of heart rate, compared to low dose propranolol and at higher doses improved symptoms such as palpitation and tremulousness were observed, while other symptoms did not improve (light-headedness, mental clouding, and shortness of breath). These data suggest that symptoms in POTS are not just due to orthostatic tachycardia or an elevated HR and that more effective beta-blockade might help the HR mediated symptoms, but not the other symptoms. So while low dose Propranolol does decrease HR and orthostatic tachycardia, higher dose propranolol elicits a complete blockade with an even further lowering of heart rate., albeit not necessarily a lessening of symptoms.

Bottom line, a low dose of propranolol is good against tachycardia and a high dose (>80mg) could result in a quicker death at the cost of peacefulness?

A higher dose will give a complete blockade, lowering heart rate further (= less conversion of methemoglobin back to hemoglobin --> death occurs quicker). But bad known symptoms can be experienced which will be at the cost of peacefulness.

Did I understand that right?

A possible advise would then be to take low dose 2h before SN intake to mitigate tachycardia (according to article) and to take a big dose (around 800mg) during SN intake for peacefulness (according to PPH, but not according to article)?

It's a good article, glad to see it shared on the forum again. I used it to fine-tune my regimen, along with having read that propanolol takes something like 1-4 hours to take full effect. So I'll take 20 mg 3-4 hours before SN, and another 20 mg two hours before, in order to attempt to reduce or eliminate tachycardia.

Then there's the other issue of taking a high dose of propanolol (1-2 g) to potentiate the SN, which I also plan to do, but according to my online research, an OD of proplanolol can also induce tachycardia, hence my taking the low doses prior.

No idea if my plan will work, but after reading the referenced article and adding it to my research, it's the best plan I could come up with.

 

[Saed]

I have to admit (and I did read this entire thread) that the Propranolol timing (s) and dosage still confounds me.
800mgs does sound potentially counterproductive in terms of tachycardia.
I know noone can tell someone what to do.
I just wish there was more anecdotal evidence to go by.
Even then,of course not everyone reacts the same.
I am so in fear of failure. I must do my upmost to get this right,but the Prop aspect is really knocking my confidence.

 

[autumnal]

[...]
Then there's the other issue of taking a high dose of propanolol (1-2 g) to potentiate the SN, which I also plan to do, but according to my online research, an OD of proplanolol can also induce tachycardia, hence my taking the low doses prior.
[...]

Which sources suggested a propranolol OD can cause tachycardia? I'm no expert, but surely that would be a very paradoxical reaction to occur? Surely bradycardia (decreased heart rate) is the most likely symptom?

Propanolol Overdose

aka Toxicology Conundrum 044 A 27-year old female weighing 60kg presents to ED approximately one hour after swallowing 70 x 40mg propranolol tablets (= 2.8 grams) with suicidal intent. At the time of assessment she is drowsy (GCS 13) with a heart rate of 46 bpm and BP 100/60. Fifteen minutes...

litfl.com

Propranolol: Package Insert - Drugs.com

Propranolol package insert / prescribing information for healthcare professionals. Includes: indications, dosage, adverse reactions and pharmacology.

www.drugs.com

 

[aminend]

There is a problem. 800 mg propranolol is around 20 ×40mg propranolol pills (its 80mg is slow act). 20 pills is alot I fear it causes vomiting and on the other hand, is it possible to ingest 20pills by only 50 ml water and SN?

 

[SSlostallhope]

I took propranolol last night at bed time with my usual Quetiapine. Took about 20 minutes to feel any affect, I felt calm and I felt my heart slow down but that only lasted another roughly 15 minutes then I couldn't sleep. Will wear a heart monitor tonight

 

[autumnal]

There is a problem. 800 mg propranolol is around 20 ×40mg propranolol pills (its 80mg is slow act). 20 pills is alot I fear it causes vomiting and on the other hand, is it possible to ingest 20pills by only 50 ml water and SN?

The PPH suggests grinding up the propranolol and adding it to the SN/water mixture. I don't know how viable this is in terms of taste and/or thickness of the resulting mixture though.

 

[Living sucks]

There is a problem. 800 mg propranolol is around 20 ×40mg propranolol pills (its 80mg is slow act). 20 pills is alot I fear it causes vomiting and on the other hand, is it possible to ingest 20pills by only 50 ml water and SN?

Do not use slow release per the pph.
And the pills are crushed and dissolved in the water.
Or
@Saed also, PN gave the green light for a patient to take 800mg melt away tabs 30 mins prior to SN

So you do have 2 options. Just not slow release forms of the drug

there is an account that used the 800mg in the SN, that person had no tachycardia and heart was reported as normal the entire way thru til unconscious.

if i could get any drug to use with SN, this would be it.

 

[SSlostallhope]

Do not use slow release per the pph.
And the pills are crushed and dissolved in the water.
Or
@Saed also, PN gave the green light for a patient to take 800mg melt away tabs 30 mins prior to SN

So you do have 2 options. Just not slow release forms of the drug

there is an account that used the 800mg in the SN, that person had no tachycardia and heart was reported as normal the entire way thru til unconscious.

if i could get any drug to use with SN, this would be it.

I just got prescribed it by my GP but also managed to buy online prior to the doctor agreeing

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Which sources suggested a propranolol OD can cause tachycardia? I'm no expert, but surely that would be a very paradoxical reaction to occur? Surely bradycardia (decreased heart rate) is the most likely symptom?

Propanolol Overdose

aka Toxicology Conundrum 044 A 27-year old female weighing 60kg presents to ED approximately one hour after swallowing 70 x 40mg propranolol tablets (= 2.8 grams) with suicidal intent. At the time of assessment she is drowsy (GCS 13) with a heart rate of 46 bpm and BP 100/60. Fifteen minutes...

litfl.com

Propranolol: Package Insert - Drugs.com

Propranolol package insert / prescribing information for healthcare professionals. Includes: indications, dosage, adverse reactions and pharmacology.

www.drugs.com

Glad to answer.

Depending on the person, they could experience bradycardia or tachycardia.

When I previously researched propanolol OD, I found tachycardia in other sources, I only inlcuded this one because I didn't feel like doing all the searching again. I expect folks who are considering this can take responsibility to research for themselves to make an informed decision.

On a side note, people with asthma or low blood sugar may have more significant symptoms.

Spoiler

Beta-blockers overdose Information | Mount Sinai - New York

Learn about Beta-blockers overdose or find a doctor at Mount Sinai Health System.

www.mountsinai.org

Beta-blockers overdose


Poisonous Ingredient

The specific ingredient that can be poisonous in these drugs varies among the different drug makers. The main ingredient is a substance that blocks the effects of a hormone called epinephrine. Epinephrine is also called adrenaline.

Where Found

Prescription beta-blockers are sold under various names, including:

• Acebutolol
• Atenolol
• Betaxolol
• Bisoprolol
• Carvedilol
• Esmolol
• Labetalol
• Metoprolol
• Nadolol
• Sotalol
• Pindolol
• Propranolol
• Timolol

Other medicines may also contain beta-blockers.

Symptoms

Below are symptoms of a beta-blocker overdose in different parts of the body.
AIRWAYS AND LUNGS

• Breathing trouble (shortness of breath, gasping)
• Wheezing (in people who have asthma)

EYES, EARS, NOSE, AND THROAT

• Blurred vision
• Double vision

HEART AND BLOOD

• Irregular heartbeat
• Lightheadedness
• Low blood pressure
• Rapid or slow heartbeat
• Heart failure (shortness of breath and swelling of the legs)
• Shock (extremely low blood pressure)

NERVOUS SYSTEM

• Weakness
• Nervousness
• Excessive sweating
• Drowsiness
• Confusion
• Convulsions (seizures)
• Fever
• Coma (decreased level of consciousness or unresponsiveness)

Low blood sugar is common in children with this type of overdose, and it can lead to nervous system symptoms.

 

[Saed]

Do not use slow release per the pph.
And the pills are crushed and dissolved in the water.
Or
@Saed also, PN gave the green light for a patient to take 800mg melt away tabs 30 mins prior to SN

So you do have 2 options. Just not slow release forms of the drug

there is an account that used the 800mg in the SN, that person had no tachycardia and heart was reported as normal the entire way thru til unconscious.

if i could get any drug to use with SN, this would be it.

Yes,thank you Living sucks I did see the screenshot and saw your documented account,too.
I won't be taking 800mgs with the SN,though,because what I've read convinces me it's too much and that won't give the Prop enough time to do its thing. I don't have SR,so that's fine.
I will give it a lot more thought before Sunday.
I think I have the timings set,at least.

 

[aminend]

Do not use slow release per the pph.
And the pills are crushed and dissolved in the water.
Or
@Saed also, PN gave the green light for a patient to take 800mg melt away tabs 30 mins prior to SN

So you do have 2 options. Just not slow release forms of the drug

there is an account that used the 800mg in the SN, that person had no tachycardia and heart was reported as normal the entire way thru til unconscious.

if i could get any drug to use with SN, this would be it.

As I found 40mg and under 40mg propranolol are fast release, is this true?