Die Fighting for Ukraine?

[AnnyMyr]

Not at all.

There has been a recent demonstrations in my country by a group of a few hundred Ukrainians who are our citizens who participated demanded from our president to put sanctions on Russia and provide Ukraine with vests, helmets and weapons. There is a problem with this. My country is surrounded by countries who are our enemies and are friends of Russia. Should our president provide Ukraine with weapons, next time when there will be a conflict with our neighbors it will be "different".

I found out that one of group's member supports a person named Stepan Bandera who organized Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and fought along with Nazy Germany doing the dirty jobs for them by torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of polish people when victims were subject to animalistic tortures before dying. They were also responsible for slaughter of 1.5 million Ukrainian jews. I haven't mention how many Russian armed and unarmed people they killed but do you own research.

I found Polish archive recently and saw photos, pictures, information. When I saw it, an anger started to build inside me for atrocities these people committed and to this day deny what they did. Ukraine nationalists here see that person as their leader to this day and I saw that on Facebook page of group's member. With recent demonstration, they basically sold out my country because they are proponents of their leader's ideals to this day which is to survive and become independent at all costs.

I take no sides in their conflict between Russia but now that I see a true face of these rats and their entitled and audacious behavior in countries who accept them today as refugees I despise them and would side with Russia only if it had good intentions for their own people which they don't.

Ukraine's government condemns our president about not giving them weapons. Recently EU stepped in and asks from our president to provide them with with weapons. My country is already currently providing aid to Ukraine and sent a delegation of doctors to deploy a camp and assist wounded. Our country also accepts Ukrainian refugees who just wanted peace and lost most if not everything from this conflict and their nationalists don't give a shite about them. Hopefully most of refugees are not proponents of nationalists' ideals. Not their innocent children at least.

I think it is very audacious to say the least of Ukraine government to demand weapons and they should not expect more than that based on information I provided above and should be appreciative of our will to assist. I think mass media is giving too much credit to Ukraine side of conflict without realizing how it will impact other countries.

Thank God that some people open their eyes to the truth. Bendera is their god, they dream of resurrecting his movement, they dream of Nazism. All Poles should remember this, it must not be forgotten. During the Second World War, many Ukrainians served the Germans, they welcomed Hitler as a liberator. And now their grandchildren are resurrecting Nazism. Unfortunately, ordinary Ukrainians were unable to resist Nazi power. They were deceived and allowed criminals to come to power.

 

[Depressed Cat]

Reading the disgusting, diabolical lies spread by Russkies and other Poo-tin apologists here only solidifies the opinions I had of them. Suffice to say that wild animals exhibit far more humane, intelligent, ethical and compassionate behaviour. It's good these members have identified themselves on this thread and elsewhere on this forum. Now the rest of us know who they are.

 

[motel rooms]

Thank God that some people open their eyes to the truth. Bendera is their god, they dream of resurrecting his movement, they dream of Nazism. All Poles should remember this, it must not be forgotten. During the Second World War, many Ukrainians served the Germans, they welcomed Hitler as a liberator. And now their grandchildren are resurrecting Nazism. Unfortunately, ordinary Ukrainians were unable to resist Nazi power. They were deceived and allowed criminals to come to power.

Who are these Ukrainians you suddenly speak of? Didn't you say that Ukrainians have never existed, that they're all actually Russians? Btw, Stalin's army, which consisted mainly of Russians, invaded & occupied eastern Poland (& the Baltic countries) in WW2 & executed 22,000 leading Polish military officers & intellectuals in the infamous Katyn massacre. I assure you that all Poles remember that genocide. And now the grandchildren of Stalin's Russian soldiers are resurrecting bloodthirsty Russian imperialism.

Yes, certain despicable Ukrainians collaborated with the Nazis in WW2. That doesn't give Putin the right to invade Ukraine & kill civilians in 2022.

 

[AnnyMyr]

Who are these Ukrainians you suddenly speak of? Didn't you say that Ukrainians have never existed, that they're all actually Russians? Btw, Stalin's army, which consisted mainly of Russians, invaded & occupied eastern Poland (& the Baltic countries) in WW2 & executed 22,000 leading Polish military officers & intellectuals in the infamous Katyn massacre. I assure you that all Poles remember that genocide. And now the grandchildren of Stalin's Russian soldiers are resurrecting bloodthirsty Russian imperialism.

Yes, certain despicable Ukrainians collaborated with the Nazis in WW2. That doesn't give Putin the right to invade Ukraine & kill civilians in 2022.

Why do you write about Putin's meetings and keep silent about Zelensky's meetings? We have been killed since 2014, our houses have been destroyed, my relatives have been killed. Why? Why do we want independence? This is genocide for 8 years. Why don't you want to know about it?

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

The definition of cannon fodder is their life not worth a penny;
I am willing to die to fight off authoritarian expansion any day, considering that I am suffering first-hand oppression from the government as a Chinese citizen, there is immense contempt and urge to seek vengeance against authoritarian regimes.

 

[motel rooms]

Why do you write about Putin's meetings and keep silent about Zelensky's meetings?

I haven't written anything about anyone's meetings. You've confused me with someone else.

We have been killed since 2014, our houses have been destroyed, my relatives have been killed. Why? Why do we want independence? This is genocide for 8 years. Why don't you want to know about it?

I'm sorry your relatives have been killed. War is hell. It's just hard not to get angry with a Russian who believes that Ukrainians don't exist as a nation & who claims that ethnic Russians make up 90% of the population of Donbas. That simply isn't true. Donbas is a large region, it's not the same thing as the self-proclaimed Luhansk and Donetsk Russian Republics in the eastern part of it. Mariupol is in Donbas too, you know. Are you horrified that 21,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed by the Russian Army in that city? I'm guessing you aren't because you think that's just a lie made up by a bunch of Ukrainian "Nazis" in Kyiv.

 

[AnnyMyr]

Why do you write about Putin's crimes and keep silent about Zelensky's crimes? We have been killed since 2014, our houses have been destroyed, my relatives have been killed This is genocide for 8 years. Why don't you want to know about it?
Translation error

I expressed myself incorrectly. I do not think that the entire Donbass wants to join Russia. Yes, part of the Donbass. But apparently, it was impossible to solve this problem peacefully. Civilians said that the Ukrainian troops used them as human shields. Therefore, who killed the civilian population is a big question.
Ukrainians are particularly cruel. They castrate prisoners, shoot through the legs and genitals. These creatures will burn in hell. But I'm sure they'll get their punishment in life. They did it for 8 years. But it will end soon and they will answer for their crimes.

 

[motel rooms]

Yes, Ukrainians are particularly cruel & Russians are particularly angelic. Some of us remember that Putin killed 250,000 civilians in Chechnya. Yes, a quarter of a million civilians.

Take comfort in the fact that the world is allowing your beloved leader to behave like Hitler. At least that deranged megalomaniac was defeated, Putin will obviously get away with annexing & ethnically cleansing much of Ukraine. Are people in your town celebrating the murder of 21,000+ Ukrainian civilians in Mariupol? Odessa is next, isn't it?

 

[CowsAreCool]

Yes, Ukrainians are particularly cruel & Russians are particularly angelic. Some of us remember that Putin killed 250,000 civilians in Chechnya. Yes, a quarter of a million civilians.

Take comfort in the fact that the world is allowing your beloved leader to behave like Hitler. At least that deranged megalomaniac was defeated, Putin will obviously get away with annexing & ethnically cleansing much of Ukraine. Are people in your town celebrating the murder of 21,000+ Ukrainian civilians in Mariupol? Odessa is next, isn't it?

The US killed 178,000 Afghanis and 208,000 Iraqis since 2001. We have no moral highground here whatsoever.

Comparing human rights abuses to human rights abuses is unnecessarry. War is a horrible, horrible thing. War crimes are being committed by both sides. And the history of human rights abuses in Donbas isnt irrelevent.

Russia is the bad guy for invading Ukraine. I agree. Ukraine is also the bad guy. They arent this idealistic western democracy they're being painted as. They are a corrupt puppet government with a Neo-Nazi problem.

And the poor will pay the price. Not those instigating this crisis. War is always complicated. Propaganda is used to make it look simple.

 

[motel rooms]

The US killed 178,000 Afghanis and 208,000 Iraqis since 2001. We have no moral highground here whatsoever.

I'm not American.

Russia is the bad guy for invading Ukraine. I agree. Ukraine is also the bad guy.

I'm not a fucking simpleton, I know what war is. I'm not idealizing the Ukrainians & those who do it are making fools of themselves. AnnyMyr, on the other hand, sees Putin as a messianic figure & is trotting out his propaganda - denying that Ukrainians are a nation & refusing to admit that the Russian Army is purposely killing thousands upon thousands of Ukrainian civilians. That makes me angry, especially since it's clear that Putin is going to get away with annexing & ethnically cleansing (at least) all of the eastern & southern regions of Ukraine.

These statistics are false. We are one people. We are distinguished only by who we think we are

Of course. Since when does it matter who people think they are?! Ukrainians & Belarusians (& their respective languages) don't exist, they're nothing but delusional Russians who are just imagining they're Ukrainians & Belarusians.

 

[AnnyMyr]

I'm not American.



I'm not a fucking simpleton, I know what war is. I'm not idealizing the Ukrainians & those who do it are making fools of themselves. AnnyMyr, on the other hand, sees Putin as a messianic figure & is trotting out his propaganda - denying that Ukrainians are a nation & refusing to admit that the Russian Army is purposely killing thousands upon thousands of Ukrainian civilians. That makes me angry, especially since it's clear that Putin is going to get away with annexing & ethnically cleansing (at least) all of the eastern & southern regions of Ukraine.

You don't like the phrase "we are one people?" Well, we are fraternal peoples, is that clearer? Does Kievan Rus tell you something? Brother kills brother because America wants it that way, which brought maniacs and Nazis to power. and yes, I call eastern Ukrainians brothers, western Ukrainians hate Russia and love Hitler and Bandera.

 

[LONE WOLF.]

If l could afford to get over to the Ukraine l would go and fight for them!

 

[AnnyMyr]

If l could afford to get over to the Ukraine l would go and fight for them!

What's stopping you? Go. The Russians are humane, they will not shoot your eggs, but will treat and feed you when you are in captivity. But they will judge you according to the law.

 

[motel rooms]

You don't like the phrase "we are one people?" Well, we are fraternal peoples, is that clearer? Does Kievan Rus tell you something? Brother kills brother because America wants it that way, which brought maniacs and Nazis to power.

There's a big difference between being one people & being fraternal peoples. Kievan Rus was a loose federation that existed from the late 9th to the mid-13th century, in the Middle Ages. What's your point? That history ended in the thirteenth century? There was a time when all Slavs spoke the same language. Does that mean that Poles, Croats & Russians are one people in 2022?

I don't like Russians who say that Ukrainians & Belarusians aren't independent nations. I don't like Serbs who claim that Croats, Bosniacs & Montenegrins aren't independent nations. Is that clear?

America didn't invent the Ukrainian nation/language/identity.

I call eastern Ukrainians brothers, western Ukrainians hate Russia and love Hitler and Bandera.

I guess all the Europeans who support Ukraine love Hitler too, then. The French, the British, Poles & Czechs love the man who tried to destroy their countries. Modern-day Germans just adore the idiot who lost 25% of Germany's territory. Kaliningrad was never Russian, it was an important German university town called Königsberg & the famous philosopher Kant was born in it.

 

[diyCTB]

Why do you write about Putin's crimes and keep silent about Zelensky's crimes?

Why nobody writes about systematic US crimes? Because they are world's police and shall not be questioned. Truth is the first casualty of war. Say something like Scott Ritter and you get banned and slandered by mass media machine. He was with made up child sex predator stuff.

Btw, Stalin's army, which consisted mainly of Russians, invaded & occupied eastern Poland (& the Baltic countries) in WW2 & executed 22,000 leading Polish military officers & intellectuals in the infamous Katyn massacre. I assure you that all Poles remember that genocide.

Why Poles suddenly forgot about their 200,000 people who were tortured violently until their death by Banderas? Why did they remove this information with graphic images from their national archive as of 2018 and supply Ukraine with weapons and promote west's narrative.

Yes, Ukrainians are particularly cruel & Russians are particularly angelic. Some of us remember that Putin killed 250,000 civilians in Chechnya. Yes, a quarter of a million civilians.

Russian government did not make attempts at counting civilian casualties during that war. Your figure is often quoted as grossly overestimated and to this day there are only estimations provided by different organizations. First Chechnen war and Second Chechnen War like any war brought with itself collateral damage. Doesn't mean only Putin killed everyone but I understand your bias.

Take comfort in the fact that the world is allowing your beloved leader to behave like Hitler. At least that deranged megalomaniac was defeated, Putin will obviously get away with annexing & ethnically cleansing much of Ukraine.

Is this war against Ukraine or US? Is Putin's army is essentially killing, raping, torturing everyone on his way, including children? Being already in a such deep shit why would his army do such atrocities? It's not that they don't have anything to lose compared to neocons? What logical sense does this have?

I guess all the Europeans who support Ukraine love Hitler too, then. The French, the British, Poles & Czechs love the man who tried to destroy their countries.

No. Supporting Ukraine's refugees with donations, humanitarian aid and allowing them shelter abroad doesn't make someone supporter of Hitler.

 

[motel rooms]

Is this war against Ukraine or US? Is Putin's army is essentially killing, raping, torturing everyone on his way, including children? Being already in a such deep shit why would his army do such atrocities? It's not that they don't have anything to lose compared to neocons? What logical sense does this have?

What sense does what you've written in this paragraph make? Exactly what are you talking about?

Are you really Polish? Do you want your country to be forced to give millions of Ukrainian refugees Polish citizenship & be seriously destabilized or do you want those unfortunate people to go back home? Do you want the Russian Army on the Polish border with Ukraine? Are you insane?

 

[darkwater]

It is obvious that you are just a Russian propagandist. Your relatives were killed, your house is destroyed. Ukrainians are committing genocide. I don't believe you for two words. Ukrainians are Nazis (with 2% Nazi party in the parliament). It sounds like a Kremlin propaganda script. Who bombed a whole town in Chechnya when they wanted to secede and installed a mafia patriarch as head of state? Just now cities are bombed thousands of Russian soldiers die thousands of civilians. This time you have gone too far, have fun in the new North Korea or with your new trading partners India and China.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

@op I genuinely thought about it - its something I feel really strongly about and I kinda wanted to die anyway. On reflection though I have no idea how to fight or even hold a gun, and the skills I do have probably wouldn't be of much use. I think donations are probably the best thing I can do.

As for @AnnyMyr they very clearly joined JUST to reply to this thread. Blatantly just a troll/sock-puppet account, or possibly even astroturfing. Best to just put pressure on the mods to ban them rather than engaging with the deliberately inflammatory nonsense they're posting.

 

[AnnyMyr]

@op I genuinely thought about it - its something I feel really strongly about and I kinda wanted to die anyway. On reflection though I have no idea how to fight or even hold a gun, and the skills I do have probably wouldn't be of much use. I think donations are probably the best thing I can do.

As for @AnnyMyr they very clearly joined JUST to reply to this thread. Blatantly just a troll/sock-puppet account, or possibly even astroturfing. Best to just put pressure on the mods to ban them rather than engaging with the deliberately inflammatory nonsense they're posting.

I'm not here for this. There are other sites for discussing politics. But you think you have the right to write about politics here, and you are trying to shut my mouth, because my point of view is different from yours.

 

[diyCTB]

What sense does what you've written in this paragraph make? Exactly what are you talking about?

Are you really Polish? Do you want your country to be forced to give millions of Ukrainian refugees Polish citizenship & be seriously destabilized or do you want those unfortunate people to go back home? Do you want the Russian Army on the Polish border with Ukraine? Are you insane?

So convenient that from all replies you picked the one that you found convenient to call me insane for. When you deal with enough people who choose to focus on mocking or creating drama instead of having productive discussion you start seeing patterns. So typical of your kind. Discussing this further with you is like talking to a troll who drags to his level and beats his victim there. Counter-intuitive.

Fine then. Believe in what you find convenient. Be like these people:

@op I genuinely thought about it - its something I feel really strongly about and I kinda wanted to die anyway. On reflection though I have no idea how to fight or even hold a gun, and the skills I do have probably wouldn't be of much use. I think donations are probably the best thing I can do.

You have been here for a few years. Haven't you found relatively peaceful method that you still wish to fight in a proxy war? You aren't good for them as a cannon fodder and lack of experience could put them in danger. These Azovs aren't going to tolerate incompetence. They will leave you bleeding with no second thoughts or use your body for cover at any opportunity. If it comes to POW situation you can be sure you will be the first they will give out to Russians.

@LONE WOLF. Why fight in someone's proxy war who couldn't give two shits about you? Why focus on destruction? Why not donate to humanitarian aid instead or help refugees by donating stuff you don't use at home, provided your country accepts them? You could be more useful alive than end up dead like this guy:

As for @AnnyMyr they very clearly joined JUST to reply to this thread. Blatantly just a troll/sock-puppet account, or possibly even astroturfing. Best to just put pressure on the mods to ban them rather than engaging with the deliberately inflammatory nonsense they're posting.

What you are doing is against what this community is for; offering a pro-choice support and access to information for people who can't have this anywhere else. You are actually depriving that person access to a pro-choice website just because you don't agree with their opinion?

I have checked their posts and there are discussions about CTB methods, yet you slander them and asking moderator to ban them? The best you could do is ignoring them but you choose to dismiss them based on their perspective you don't agree with? I hope you will never become moderator of this community since you can't handle controversy well.

@AnnyMyr You don't need to prove anything to anyone here. Things will happen with you or without you. It's not worth it.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

You see? This is what fascists are like. They lie and manipulate and deflect. The straw-manning here is a classic trick from the right-wing playbook. They're incapable of engaging in good faith because they know they have no arguments and no ground to stand on.

 

[motel rooms]

So typical of your kind.

Am I lying about what's happening in Ukraine? Is it a lie that the Russian Army is purposely shelling civilian targets & razing Ukraine to the ground as we speak? Is it a lie that 21,000+ Ukrainian civilians have been murdered in Mariupol? Is that genocide or not? Are you fine with millions of Ukrainian refugees being forced to stay in your country indefinitely? Do you want more destitute Ukrainians to flee to Poland? Do you want Putin to annihilate & annex Ukraine just because some people in the western part of that country collaborated with Hitler 80 fucking years ago?

I'm not fine with anyone, regardless of their nationality, committing war crimes anywhere. I am not claiming that every single Ukrainian is a fucking angel & that every single Russian on the planet is a demon from hell. I am not a brainwashed pro-American, anti-Russian troll incapable of nuanced thinking, OK? Find someone else to strawman.