Die Fighting for Ukraine?

[diyCTB]

 

[deleted]

i would never give my life for a country that would never accept me i really don't understand why fighting for the interests of crazy leaders i would just go there to get a shotgun and shoot myself in the head

 

[Chiisai]

I think you're carrying too much responsibility on your shoulders at an almost dystopian level... please try to relax, you are just a human being and a good person. If you think like that about something as distant as a little war that isn't going to last long, I don't want to imagine how you might have to torture yourself with the things going on around you.

I guess you are right though I dont think I can just stop thinking like that when it has been ingrained in me eversince childhood. However, I still stand and believe, I find this a logical consequence, that there will be major causal effect once other countries get directly involved. I believe it has already started. The fact that there are now Chechen and Syrian militia being trained by Russians is an effect from Ukraine asking for foreign volunteers. If this continues, only a matter of time that this will become a global-scale war.

 

[Sherri]

I was a bit, well my country as a whole got a bit disappointed today at Ukrainians, 3 mini buses, empty drove for days from Portugal to the Ukrainian border to save refugees. All of them, and I repeat, all declined coming to Portugal one of the safest countries in the world, they said they were only interested in UK or Germany, the buses are on the way back empty. These are real news, just came in the air one hour ago at our national news. Were offered housing and support. I'm speechless. :(. We are not a third world country we are a sunny country surrounded by beaches , and well known for our hospitality.

 

[davidgeorge]

I found this post on LinkedIn interesting. Robin Horsfall is a professional soldier with strong opinions.

Robin Horsfall on LinkedIn: Thousands of volunteers want to fight in Ukraine. If you are one of the… | 274 comments

Thousands of volunteers want to fight in Ukraine. If you are one of the growing number of volunteers who want to be part of a 'Foreign Legion' helping defend… | 274 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

[Chiisai]

I was a bit, well my country as a whole got a bit disappointed today at Ukrainians, 3 mini buses, empty drive for days from Portugal to the Ukrainian border to save refugees. All of them, and I repeat, all declined coming to Portugal one of the safest countries in the world, they said they were only interested in UK or Germany, the buses are on the way back empty. These are real news, just came in the air one hour ago at our national news. We're offered housing and support. I'm speechless. :(. We are not a third world country we are a sunny country surrounded by beaches , and well known for our hospitality.

I also heard there were some commotion between foreign students in Ukraine and also prisoners being released to fight for the country. Scary to think if these were high profile criminals yet there has been not much detail or media coverage about it.

 

[Sherri]

I also heard there were some commotion between foreign students in Ukraine and also prisoners being released to fight for the country. Scary to think if these were high profile criminals yet there has been not much detail or media coverage about it.

yes That's scary but they must be at least brave man. Im sad that people who said their are desperate are choosing countries, I would go even to the moon if I was with no where to go. The buses are coming back empty, my country is very sad at their attitude and won't offer further assistance. This was just the beginning , they were planning to rescue thousands.

 

[Chiisai]

yes That's scary but they must be at least brave man. Im sad that people who said their are desperate are choosing countries, I would go even to the moon if I was with no where to go. The buses are coming back empty, my country is very sad at their attitude and won't offer further assistance. This was just the beginning , they were planning to rescue thousands.

Well you know, there's only a fine line separating bravery and insanity. As for the busses, With your statement, I'm guessing they are not that desperate? Just sad that there's a an opportunity given but not taken. I want to escape to a new life, can I take that bus instead? Though I think I have to be from Ukraine to do that.

 

[Sherri]

Well you know, there's only a fine line separating bravery and insanity. As for the busses, With your statement, I'm guessing they are not that desperate? Just sad that there's a an opportunity given but not taken. I want to escape to a new life, can I take that bus instead? Though I think I have to be from Ukraine to do that.

I know what you mean, so many countries I would like to move and can't cause of visa issues, and then some have an open door and say no. Well the uk and Germany benefits are better though, more money. It's the only reason I can think.

 

[Chiisai]

I know what you mean, so many countries I would like to move and can't cause of visa issues, and then some have an open door and say no. Well the uk and Germany benefits are better though, more money. It's the only reason I can think.

Still, such a wasted opportunity. Well, I just hope that they be safe with the decision they chose.

 

[Sherri]

Still, such a wasted opportunity. Well, I just hope that they be safe with the decision they chose.

Well if you ever wanna come on holidays let me know. Hugs

 

[Chiisai]

Well if you ever wanna come on holidays let me know. Hugs

Haha thank you for the offer. you're making me blush . Jokes aside, I doubt I can hold on that long but I'll try.

 

[Depressed Cat]

I know what you mean, so many countries I would like to move and can't cause of visa issues, and then some have an open door and say no. Well the uk and Germany benefits are better though, more money. It's the only reason I can think.

Portugal is a lovely country indeed! I hope to visit someday, if I don't kill myself before that. I had a classmate in school who was of Portuguese descent with a very Portuguese name, da Silva. Such a name is rare in my part of the world.

It's sad to hear Ukrainian refugees fleeing the war refused to come to Portugal, but I wouldn't be harsh on them and blame it on money alone.

There could be other things like family and friends as well. Lots of Ukrainians live and work in the UK and Germany (don't know about Portugal), so they may have preferred to go to those countries.

I hope the Portuguese government does not stop operating the rescue buses because of their refusal.

Having said that, if I was a refugee fleeing war & genocide, I would gladly accept the offer of any country to provide me refuge.

By the way, volunteer fighters from Portugal and another Lusophone country, Brazil, are already on the ground in Ukraine, helping to defend freedom & democracy and to fight off the cowardly invaders.

Here are the Lusophone heroes of the newly created International Legion

 

[idontknow42]

I literally thought about this.

However, I'd feel bad if I killed someone (even thought I'm about to fucking die). A lot of the Russian soldiers are being forced to fight, and I don't know how I'd feel knowing I just killed someone's son and ripped their family apart.

One thing that I've learnt from this war is that no matter what, in the end, when we all die, we are all equal. That gives me a lot of comfort. No human will be cooler, richer, or more powerful than another. Just how it should be

 

[Chiisai]

Portugal is a lovely country indeed! I hope to visit someday, if I don't kill myself before that. I had a classmate in school who was of Portuguese descent with a very Portuguese name, da Silva. Such a name is rare in my part of the world.

It's sad to hear Ukrainian refugees fleeing the war refused to come to Portugal, but I wouldn't be harsh on them and blame it on money alone.

There could be other things like family and friends as well. Lots of Ukrainians live and work in the UK and Germany (don't know about Portugal), so they may have preferred to go to those countries.

I hope the Portuguese government does not stop operating the rescue buses because of their refusal.

Having said that, if I was a refugee fleeing war & genocide, I would gladly accept the offer of any country to provide me refuge.

By the way, volunteer fighters from Portugal and another Lusophone country, Brazil, are already on the ground in Ukraine, helping to defend freedom & democracy and to fight off the cowardly invaders.

Here are the Lusophone heroes of the newly created International Legion

View attachment 88161

That's nice. Hope they'll be safe. Just fearful that, with those foreign flag patches, guess it'll become a global scale war in no time.

 

[diyCTB]

But on a basic level, Ukrainians are just defending themselves from attack. Civilians are being murdered. How is it more complicated?

Maybe because it is complicated? Otherwise there would be no war, right? It's Poutine you should direct this question to. Not me.

I was a bit, well my country as a whole got a bit disappointed today at Ukrainians, 3 mini buses, empty drove for days from Portugal to the Ukrainian border to save refugees. All of them, and I repeat, all declined coming to Portugal one of the safest countries in the world, they said they were only interested in UK or Germany, the buses are on the way back empty. These are real news, just came in the air one hour ago at our national news. Were offered housing and support. I'm speechless. :(. We are not a third world country we are a sunny country surrounded by beaches , and well known for our hospitality.

If you happened to read about my perspective on the matter in my country you would understand my disappointment too. It does not matter if I chose a side in this. It does not matter if I have nothing to do with it. I tried to keep discussion relatively civil. I tried to make my point but it backfired. The more information I gave the worse I have made it.

I realized that there is something common in this. It's people's ability to hear other people. If someone is incapable of hearing others and can only see themselves then it defeats the purpose of discussion. In technical jargon one side says there is no hope for the other side of the conflict because their firmware can no longer be overwritten and vice versa.

This "can't hear you, can't see you" is a growing issue these days among people and it's very bad for society. It means that no side is willing to go on minimum compromise in order to have a common ground and is a precursor for entitled and egoistic generations.

I don't want to fill our sanctuary with political noise that world leaders manufacture. It's too valuable to desecrate it with politics. No controversial stuff should make here a mess. I will stay out of it because it is just futile.

 

[Chiisai]

Maybe because it is complicated? Otherwise there would be no war, right? It's Poutine you should direct this question to. Not me.



If you happened to read about my perspective on the matter in my country you would understand my disappointment too. It does not matter if I chose a side in this. It does not matter if I have nothing to do with it. I tried to keep discussion relatively civil. I tried to make my point but it backfired. The more information I gave the worse I have made it.

I realized that there is something common in this. It's people's ability to hear other people. If someone is incapable of hearing others and can only see themselves then it defeats the purpose of discussion. In technical jargon one side says there is no hope for the other side of the conflict because their firmware can no longer be overwritten and vice versa.

This "can't hear you, can't see you" is a growing issue these days among people and it's very bad for society. It means that no side is willing to go on minimum compromise in order to have a common ground and is a precursor for entitled and egoistic generations.

I don't want to fill our sanctuary with political noise that world leaders manufacture. It's too valuable to desecrate it with politics. No controversial stuff should make here a mess. I will stay out of it because it is just futile.

Haha seems this "Cancel Culture" is frustrating you too huh. I too find it ironic how people claiming democracy forego civility by enabling this "Cancel Culture". Such hypocrisy.

 

[diyCTB]

Haha seems this "Cancel Culture" is frustrating you too huh. I too find it ironic how people claiming democracy forego civility by enabling this "Cancel Culture". Such hypocrisy.

I am "old" and behind today's trends. They call "can't hear you, can't see you" cancel culture? One person cancels another person if they say something that he does not agree with despite opposing side going on a compromise and trying to see conflict from both perspectives?
There's something else I noticed. Disclaimers. Not website disclaimers and other disclaimers that law requires but simple disclaimers that people mention.

We can no longer feel free to talk because we fear of being judged. Why? Because we missed putting a disclaimer in our article or argument and are guilty until proven innocent.

It used to be innocent until guilty because people could hear us and give their benefit of the doubt. When you were misunderstood a person would ask you "What did you say?" to give his benefit of the doubt to confirm its what you really meant. Today? There is no warning and you get punched instantly.

If it's a cancel culture then it does nothing good but divide society into a smaller groups thereby firther separating society. Nothing good will come out of it. Nothing.

 

[Chiisai]

I am "old" and behind today's trends. They call "can't hear you, can't see you" cancel culture? One person cancels another person if they say something that he does not agree with despite opposing side going on a compromise and trying to see conflict from both perspectives?
There's something else I noticed. Disclaimers. Not website disclaimers and other disclaimers that law requires but simple disclaimers that people mention.

We can no longer feel free to talk because we fear of being judged. Why? Because we missed putting a disclaimer in our article or argument and are guilty until proven innocent.

It used to be innocent until guilty because people could hear us and give their benefit of the doubt. When you were misunderstood a person would ask you "What did you say?" to give his benefit of the doubt to confirm its what you really meant. Today? There is no warning and you get punched instantly.

If it's a cancel culture then it does nothing good but divide society into a smaller groups thereby firther separating society. Nothing good will come out of it. Nothing.

Youre exactly right. People nowadays are so afraid to speak their minds in fear of repercussions that is why most create an alternative accounts or hide behind anonymity/personas to avoid that consequence.

 

[KimKevorkian]

Whoever is considering going to Ukraine. It's about the principle, and abt all freedom-loving people and NOT ABOUT YOU. If all you can think abt is getting a gun and seeing how you get killed...put a good way, it may make you a bit less fearful and that recklessness can sometimes, sometimes be the necessary ingredient in heroic acts, as you set your own solipsistic bullshit aside and serve others and fight for them. You'll otherwise be useless and merely an opportunist who can't wait to shoot himself, while Ukrainians want comrades (sorry abt the term) to fight shoulder to shoulder with them. Jesus christ people. Ity's about others and ideas, not always about you. Be a hero, save some lives, then you can live or die later on if you get back. But at least you showed some balls/ovaries. I like idea of being a walking Kamikaze in front of a Russian convoy. Sounds like a blast. Or will. You'll be the bomb, yo.

 

[Chiisai]

Whoever is considering going to Ukraine. It's about the principle, and abt all freedom-loving people and NOT ABOUT YOU. If all you can think abt is getting a gun and seeing how you get killed...put a good way, it may make you a bit less fearful and that recklessness can sometimes, sometimes be the necessary ingredient in heroic acts, as you set your own solipsistic bullshit aside and serve others and fight for them. You'll otherwise be useless and merely an opportunist who can't wait to shoot himself, while Ukrainians want comrades (sorry abt the term) to fight shoulder to shoulder with them. Jesus christ people. Ity's about others and ideas, not always about you. Be a hero, save some lives, then you can live or die later on if you get back. But at least you showed some balls/ovaries. I like idea of being a walking Kamikaze in front of a Russian convoy. Sounds like a blast. Or will. You'll be the bomb, yo.

Wrong. If the principle is to save civilians, as a foreign volunteer, one can opt to hold or join a humanitarian aid. However, if a foreign volunteer will take up arms and join direct confrontation, the volunteer is putting their nation in jeopardy as his/her actions can be taken as interference in the conflict. The act of the volunteer may be seen as heroic but just because it is doesnt mean its outright good, the consequences of such action could lead to further chaos and destruction not just in the conflict they are participating but also to their own fellow countrymen just because of some self-righteousness and wish for momentary glory. There's a fine line between bravery and insanity and that line is the ability to think of the consequences before acting on it.

 

[KimKevorkian]

Wrong. If the principle is to save civilians, as a foreign volunteer, one can opt to hold or join a humanitarian aid. However, if a foreign volunteer will take up arms and join direct confrontation, the volunteer is putting their nation in jeopardy as his/her actions can be taken as interference in the conflict. The act of the volunteer may be seen as heroic but just because it is doesnt mean its outright good, the consequences of such action could lead to further chaos and destruction not just in the conflict they are participating but also to their own fellow countrymen just because of some self-righteousness and wish for momentary glory. There's a fine line between bravery and insanity and that line is the ability to think of the consequences before acting on it.

Really good point. Humanitarian volunteers wd be a great help. The white helmets in Syria, for instance. I don't agree that the actions of citizen of some other country will necessarily cause Russia to designate the country that person id from to be an enemy. Lots of Americans went to fight in the Spanish Civil War, for example, against Franco. America wasn't deemed an enemy. At some point we WILL end up nose to nose with Russia and CHina (when it goes after Taiwan) or that little pud from N. Korea (Rodman shd give him a poison earring). These confrontations are inevitable, I'm afraid. Placating ala Lord Chamberlain will get us nowhere, just buy a bit more time until doomsday in my view. Joe Bageant has a great title of an equally great essay titled "Waltzing At The Doomsday Ball". www.joebageant.org

 

[Chiisai]

Really good point. Humanitarian volunteers wd be a great help. The white helmets in Syria, for instance. I don't agree that the actions of citizen of some other country will necessarily cause Russia to designate the country that person id from to be an enemy. Lots of Americans went to fight in the Spanish Civil War, for example, against Franco. America wasn't deemed an enemy. At some point we WILL end up nose to nose with Russia and CHina (when it goes after Taiwan) or that little pud from N. Korea (Rodman shd give him a poison earring). These confrontations are inevitable, I'm afraid. Placating ala Lord Chamberlain will get us nowhere, just buy a bit more time until doomsday in my view. Joe Bageant has a great title of an equally great essay titled "Waltzing At The Doomsday Ball". www.joebageant.org

Sadly, it will but I hope it wont. If you are able to watch or bypass censorship on russian news, there was this interview that said any direct interference of other nations will be seen as war. Another instance was of a Queen's Guard who abandoned their post to join as Ukraine volunteer and that the gov't is trying to intercept that volunteer to avoid the issues of interference. I believe Russia has not yet acted on it as they are still on the process of peace talks with Ukraine. However, if they wont reach to a favorable conclusion out of the peace talks, especially that one of the Ukrainian negotiators was executed by the Security Service of Ukraine for being suspected as a spy, then there is a high probability Russia will now act on the matter of foreign volunteers joining as direct combat interference thus this will now snowball into a war which most, if not all, nations will be part of.

 

[KimKevorkian]

And the absurd thing is Putin just has to wait for the morons of America to re-elect the orange idiot fascist or one of his minions, whereupon they'll immediately remove any and all sanctions and, like Obama after Russia invaded Georgia, "reset". Weak and sick and no ethical virtue whatsoever. America's cannibalizing itself anyway. Putin and his misinfo campaign acted merely as an accelerant.

 

[Chiisai]

And the absurd thing is Putin just has to wait for the morons of America to re-elect the orange idiot fascist or one of minions, whereupon they'll remove any and all sanctions and, like Obama after Russia invaded Georgia, "reset". Weak and sick and no ethical virtue whatsoever. America's cannibalizing itself anyway. Putin and his misinfo campaign acted merely as an accelerant.

Hmmm... As for matters of western and russian politics and govt, I leave room for thoughts and assessment so I can neither agree or disagree on the matter. I still have yet to fully understand the situation and well has proven a bit challenging with all the propagandas on all sides. Haha

 

[diyCTB]

Youre exactly right. People nowadays are so afraid to speak their minds in fear of repercussions that is why most create an alternative accounts or hide behind anonymity/personas to avoid that consequence.

Yes they. On Facebook I see commenters say political stuff against each other about current conflict, condemn actions of internal politics etc. and their comments are not removed. People like, people hate. However I tried posting my taken on a situation and guess what? Moderators denied it. Why? Because truth is subjective and they don't want controversial stuff to cause a mess despite I have discussed it in comments and people agreed and disagreed with me. I guess compiling them and serving on a silver platter is too much to handle in one go and frankly everyone is emotionally tired of fighting and being bombarded left and right with information. If it's not a good time now, it will never be because what has already happened, happened.

However, if they wont reach to a favorable conclusion out of the peace talks, especially that one of the Ukrainian negotiators was executed by the Security Service of Ukraine for being suspected as a spy

Putin also likes to call spies people who he disagrees with. Can say same thing about the other side. I think Putin peace talk assumes compromise on their side which they will not agree to do. Their president looks very tired like "they who shall not be named" hold a gun to his head but he cannot go back and has to do as they order. He seems like a good guy. Too bad he was manipulated/forced to become president and play dirty political games instead of following his artistic passion.

Jesus christ people. Ity's about others and ideas, not always about you. Be a hero, save some lives, then you can live or die later on if you get back. But at least you showed some balls/ovaries.

Let's apply this to CTB. Would it be about me if I CTB'ed at AirBnB of someone who depended on income from renting his place knowing it would mean loss of his business? Does that make me selfish bastard?

At some point we WILL end up nose to nose with Russia and CHina (when it goes after Taiwan) or that little pud from N. Korea (Rodman shd give him a poison earring). These confrontations are inevitable, I'm afraid.

What will happen to Taiwan and where will computer chips be made?

And the absurd thing is Putin just has to wait for the morons of America to re-elect the orange idiot fascist or one of his minions, whereupon they'll immediately remove any and all sanctions and, like Obama after Russia invaded Georgia, "reset".

Who are these orange idiot fascist and his minions?

 

[Chiisai]

Yes they. On Facebook I see commenters say political stuff against each other about current conflict, condemn actions of internal politics etc. and their comments are not removed. People like, people hate. However I tried posting my taken on a situation and guess what? Moderators denied it. Why? Because truth is subjective and they don't want controversial stuff to cause a mess despite I have discussed it in comments and people agreed and disagreed with me. I guess compiling them and serving on a silver platter is too much to handle in one go and frankly everyone is emotionally tired of fighting and being bombarded left and right with information. If it's not a good time now, it will never be because what has already happened, happened.



Putin also likes to call spies people who he disagrees with. Can say same thing about the other side. I think Putin peace talk assumes compromise on their side which they will not agree to do. Their president looks very tired like "they who shall not be named" hold a gun to his head but he cannot go back and has to do as they order. He seems like a good guy. Too bad he was manipulated/forced to become president and play dirty political games instead of following his artistic passion.



Let's apply this to CTB. Would it be about me if I CTB'ed at AirBnB of someone who depended on income from renting his place knowing it would mean loss of his business? Does that make me selfish bastard?



What will happen to Taiwan and where will computer chips be made?



Who are these orange idiot fascist and his minions?

Well that is cancel culture for you. Just because yours is not a popular opinion, doesnt mean it should not be heard. Also, I believe there is no such thing as black and white in society. Its just a matter of who gets to have the most popular side wins. Everything is just propaganda to organisations that control markets.

 

[diyCTB]

Well that is cancel culture for you. Just because yours is not a popular opinion, doesnt mean it should not be heard. Also, I believe there is no such thing as black and white in society. Its just a matter of who gets to have the most popular side wins. Everything is just propaganda to organisations that control markets.

Are there more idiots than ever today? Ask something plain on Facebook and people look for something to feed their emotions. If there is a potential to twist it for a laugh they will do that. If there is a potential to twist it to hurl shit at you they will do that. They turn serious questions into stupid and people like their responses. A decent person that has nothing to say passes by but there are those who have nothing to say yet turn your question into shit that attracts shit people.

 

[Chiisai]

Are there more idiots than ever today? Ask something plain on Facebook and people look for something to feed their emotions. If there is a potential to twist it for a laugh they will do that. If there is a potential to twist it to hurl shit at you they will do that. They turn serious questions into stupid and people like their responses. A decent person that has nothing to say passes by but there are those who have nothing to say yet turn your question into shit that attracts shit people.

And intolerance and disrespect are deemed as "fighting for one's belief" and "opinionated/woke" and traditional values are deemed as weak over modern ones.

Lets just say that the world has gone a bit too comfortable.

...too comfortable that these qualities are now taken for granted.

 

[diyCTB]

And intolerance and disrespect are deemed as "fighting for one's belief" and "opinionated/woke" and traditional values are deemed as weak over modern ones.

Lets just say that the world has gone a bit too comfortable.

...too comfortable that these qualities are now taken for granted.

It's a numbers game. There is nothing left to fight for in this world.

I remember back in early 2000s there was this intelligent guy in my class that was given nickname associated with food product.
He said something and everyone in class laughed when there was nothing to laugh about. I don't know if they did it due to his
nickname or because he had pimples on his face. The bad thing is I laughed too and against my will because my friend laughed
which I later determined to be sociopath. Every time I remember it I wonder how could I be such an idiot. Social pressure BS?
That guy is hopefully doing good in life and had I any brains back then we would be friends today.

I think @Hereforeternity is right. We should focus within ourselves and do what we believe in if we can. Respecting environment
and keeping it cleaner or helping stray animals. Even small stuff helps and that's how I am spending my borrowed time.

As for mainstream society and cancel culture? Fuck them.

I saw a post on Facebook from someone running away from current conflict asking for information on how to bring a dozen or two
of pets. People critisized their decision telling to take only possessions, others ridiculed by saying it is a matter of human lives and their live yet they bring pets, others gave information and only a couple of people admired them for their love to pets, including me.
Usually those who laugh, critisize and have nothing good to say are people who would not do anything because they can do nothing.